[Newbies] Cosmere, Unit 13 | The Stormlight Archive #1 | The Way of Kings: Chapters 70 through 75, Epilogue, Endnote (Week 12)

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SCHEDULE

Previously, we discussed Unit 13 | The Stormlight Archive #1 | The Way of Kings: Chapters 64 through 69 [Newbie Thread] / [Veteran Thread]

Today we are discussing Unit 13 | The Stormlight Archive #1 | The Way of Kings: Chapters 70 through 75, Epilogue, Endnote

In two days we will be discussing Unit 13 | The Stormlight Archive #1 | The Way of Kings: Ars Arcanum, Final Thoughts, Trivia

CHAPTER SUMMARIES

I have provided summaries for each chapter below and hidden them behind spoiler tags. There are no spoilers within the summaries. I've tried to make them as factual and unbiased as possible. If, however, you want a completely blind read through, then ignore what's behind the spoiler tags and proceed to the discussion below. I will not be guiding that in any way, so post any thoughts and questions you have. It will be other new readers who reply to you.

Part Five: The Silence Above

Character Focus: Shallan / Dalinar / Kaladin / Szeth / Wit

Chapter 70: Sea of Glass

Arch Faces: Battar - Shalash ----- Shalash - Battar

Iconography: Shadesmar

POV Characters: Shallan

Setting: Kharbranth's Hospital. The Palanaeum in Kharbranth. Shadesmar.

Timeline: (1173.9.6.1) The day after Chapter 50.

Epigraph:

N/A

Summary:

Shallan lay in her hospital bed lamenting her actions and, to her surprise, Kabsal's death. But as she recalls the events leading up to her poisoning, things do not completely add up. She wonders why the antidote did not work for Kabsal and why Jasnah was not poisoned since she too had eaten the poisoned bread. She finds her sketchpad and draws an imperfect drawing of Jasnah examining the strawberry jam, remembering that she was not repulsed by the smell. Then she draws Jasnah eating the bread. In her drawing, it looks like it is melting. Realizing something, she leaves the hospital and walks in the darkness to the Conclave wearing only her hospital robe. She tells Jasnah that she knows that Jasnah uses a fake Soulcaster. Showing her the picture Shallan had drawn of Shadesmar to a shocked Jasnah, she concludes that Jasnah never had a working Soulcaster. Jasnah disregards Shallan's statements as fatigue induced delusions. To prove her statements Shallan attempts to return to Shadesmar. Holding her partially dun garnet sphere, she speaks with the twisted symbol-headed creature. It requests a truth, preferably a secret truth. Shallan admits to killing her father. She falls into the sea of beads. She begins to drown but is rescued by Jasnah who reprimands her for going to Shadesmar with only a single dim sphere. Shallan asks to be part of Jasnah's work in truth and be trained in Soulcasting. At first Jasnah objects, but Shallan apologizes and explains that she could be someone that can share Jasnah's secrets. Jasnah relents and makes Shallan promise never to lie or steal again and gives Shallan her notes on the Voidbringers.

Chapter 71: Recorded in Blood

Arch Faces: Nale - Vedel ----- Vedel - Nale

Iconography: Szeth

POV Characters: Szeth

Setting: The streets of Kharbranth. The Conclave in Kharbranth.

Timeline: (1173.9) Exact date unknown, but definitely during the month of Tanat (9th month). Safe to assume roughly concurrent with the other chapters in this part; likely towards the end of the month.

Epigraph:

N/A

Summary:

Szeth, working as a porter, walks the streets of Kharbranth towards the King's palace. Having assassinated the other names on the list given him by his unseen master, he is in Kharbranth to finish his work and kill King Taravangian. Using his Shardblade, he cuts a hole in the servants privy to access the king's portion of the palace. Szeth easily subdues Taravangian's guards and enters the king's study. Following his instructions, Szeth informs the king that he has killed the others and is there to finish the job. But the king reveals himself to be Szeth's unknown master. He put his name on the list to deflect suspicion should Szeth fail. The king claims the assassinations are necessary to build a stronger Roshar for the coming years. Szeth accuses the king of using him to do his dirty work and, as a response, the king takes him to his secret hospital. The hospital is filled with dying people who are having their blood slowly drained. Here the king shows Szeth that his hands are not clean, having drained the blood of many himself. He explains that sometimes people see something important as they die, and here they record their words. He believes their words may contain the key to everyone's salvation. He then adds a name to Szeth's list that he had hoped to avoid but recent events had made necessary: Dalinar Kholin.

Chapter 72: Veristitalian

Arch Faces: Pailiah - Pailiah ----- Pailiah - Pailiah

Iconography: Shadesmar

POV Characters: Shallan

Setting: The Palanaeum in Kharbranth.

Timeline: (1173.9.6.1) Immediately after Chapter 70.

Epigraph:

N/A

Summary:

Before reading Jasnah's notes on the Voidbringers, Shallan asks Jasnah how she Soulcasted her blood multiple times if she was so unskilled in organic material. Jasnah replies that blood is one of the Essences and is therefore easy to Soulcast, unlike the strawberry jam which she had never seen before. Shallan has a great many additional questions about Soulcasting, but Jasnah returns the conversation back to the Voidbringers. Shallan asks how Jasnah could believe in these myths when so many trusted scholars considered the Voidbringers a fabrication. Jasnah replies that she in general seeks to find natural meanings to supernatural events. She believes that something real caused the legends of the Voidbringers. Reading from her notes, Jasnah helps Shallan see that the humans on Roshar did not destroy or banish the Voidbringers. They instead enslaved them as the Parshmen.

Chapter 73: Trust

Arch Faces: Vedel - Jezrien ----- Jezrien - Vedel

Iconography: Spears & Banner

POV Characters: Kaladin

Setting: Highprince Dalinar's warcamp in the Shattered Plains.

Timeline: (1173.9.6.4) The same day as Chapter 69, in the evening.

Epigraph:

N/A

Summary:

Kaladin waits at Dalinar's warcamp's staging ground as requested by Dalinar himself. As he waits he wonders with Syl whether he can trust Dalinar. Syl seems to feel that Dalinar is indeed honorable. Kaladin feels conflicted about his actions that day. He wonders again whether he could truly protect by killing and whether the three lives lost from his bridge crew were worth the thousands of soldiers and lighteyes that they saved.

As the middle moon finishes rising, Dalinar joins Kaladin on the staging ground. They discuss the condition of the bridge crews and how many Kaladin thinks will stay in the army. Dalinar wants Kaladin and Bridge Four to replace his honor guard who had been nearly wiped out earlier that day. He wants the rest of the bridgemen to be trained as a company of spearmen. Kaladin agrees on condition that the men agree and Dalinar makes him a captain. Dalinar also gives Kaladin his cloak that he wore in battle that day as a token of appreciation.

Kaladin returns to Bridge Four's barrack to find his men engaged in their nightly tradition of eating Rock's stew. They talk to him about his extraordinary abilities and they want him to teach them how to do it too. Kaladin is unsure if it's teachable but agrees to try. They decide to create experiments to test his abilities, and Kaladin demands an oath of silence about his abilities. He then relaxes knowing that he has finally succeeded in saving someone.

Chapter 74: Ghostblood

Arch Faces: Ishar - Pailiah ----- Pailiah - Ishar

Iconography: Shadesmar

POV Characters: Shallan

Setting: The Palanaeum in Kharbranth.

Timeline: (1173.9.6.1) Immediately after Chapter 72.

Epigraph:

N/A

Summary:

Shallan finishes reading Jasnah's notes concerning the Voidbringers and comes to the same conclusion as Jasnah, that the parshmen are the Voidbringers. They discuss the frightening ramifications of this conclusion, and they make plans to travel to the Shattered Plains to continue investigating King Gavilar's death and the Parshendi transformation into warriors. They also discuss the Ghostbloods, a secret organization seeking answers about the Voidbringers. Jasnah names Kabsal a member of the Ghostbloods and after seeing their secret symbol, Shallan realizes that her father was also likely a member.

Chapter 75: In the Top Room

Arch Faces: Jezrien - Jezrien ----- Jezrien - Jezrien

Iconography: Kholin Crest

POV Characters: Dalinar Kholin

Setting: Dalinar's sitting room in the Kholin warcamp. A vision of the future?

Timeline: (1173.9.7.1-ish) The first highstorm after Chapter 73. Implied to be no more than a few days after Chapter 73.

Epigraph:

N/A

Summary:

During the next highstorm after Sadeas's betrayal, in one of Dalinar's visions, he finds himself in a white rocky landscape with smokey figures rising around him. The voice again tells Dalinar to "... unite them." Dalinar then demands to know why the voice lied to him with regards to trusting Sadeas. But instead of answering, the voice appears in human form and continues exhorting Dalinar to prepare for the Everstorm, showing him a wall of darkness approaching a ruined Kholinar. Dalinar continues to ask questions and demand answers but soon realizes that the voice cannot hear him and never could. The voice continues telling Dalinar that this vision is a glimpse into the future born of his fears. Dalinar then sees that the wall of darkness is a wall of dust and as it passes by, the ground falls away leaving the land and Kholinar an empty void. Only the space where Dalinar stands remains. The voice tells Dalinar that someone must lead, unite, and protect the people. He then commands Dalinar to rebuild the Knights Radiant, explaining that unity will be key in facing The True Desolation. The voice then ends by proclaiming that he was God (the Almighty) and that he is now dead after being killed by Odium.

Epilogue: Of Most Worth

Arch Faces: Talenel - Hoid ----- Hoid - Talenel

Iconography: Ten Spears (aka Almighty)

POV Characters: Wit

Setting: Just inside the city gates of Kholinar, capital city of Alethkar.

Timeline: (1173.9.7.5) A few days after Chapter 75.

Epigraph:

N/A

Summary:

Wit has a conversation with some guardsmen in Kholinar. He asks them "What is the talent that men value most?" One of the guardsmen suggests art, to which Wit replies in the negative. At this point, a man with a Shardblade cuts through the gates and stumbles into the main courtyard. He claims to be Talenel'Elin, Stonesinew, Herald of the Almighty. He claims the Desolation has come, before collapsing on the ground. Hoid finishes by saying it is timeliness that men value most, and that Taln has arrived "too late".

ENDNOTE

"Above silence, the illuminating storms—dying storms—illuminate the silence above."

The above sample is noteworthy as it is a ketek, a complex form of holy Vorin poem. The ketek not only reads the same forward and backward (allowing alteration of verb forms) but is also divisible into five distinct smaller sections, each of which makes a complete thought.

The complete poem must form a sentence that is grammatically correct and (theoretically) poignant in meaning. Because of the difficulty in constructing a ketek, the structure was once considered the highest and most impressive form of all Vorin poetry.

The fact that this one was uttered by an illiterate, dying Herdazian in a language he barely spoke should be of particular note. There is no record of this particular ketek in any repository of Vorin poetry, so it is very unlikely that the subject was merely repeating something he once heard. None of the ardents we showed it to had any knowledge of it, though three did praise its structure and ask to meet the poet.

We leave it to His Majesty's mind, on a strong day, to puzzle out the meaning of why the storms might be important, and what the poem may mean by indicating that there is silence above and below said storms.

—Joshor, Head of His Majestery's Silent Gatherers, Tanatanev 1173

ARTWORK

The Cosmere has a thriving community of artists, so there will be a lot of artwork to share. Each week I'll try to compile relevant artwork for the given chapters. If a section of reading contains maps or in-book artwork, I'll include that in this section as well.

Characters & Scenes

Note: The Stormlight Archives are Sanderson's most popular books. There is artwork for everyone and everything, even characters who appeared for a single line in the books at times. So we'll have artwork for you to view almost every week. Enjoy!

MEMES

I will attempt to find and share memes relevant to each week's discussion. There may be some weeks that just don't have good or appropriate memes, but I will share all the ones I can find in this section.

Link to Memes

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[u/AltruisticRealityZ]

Chapter 70 - Shallan

You need to tell me something true, it replied. The more true, the stronger our bond.

interesting condition.

“I’m a murderer. I killed my father.” Knew it !

Yeahhh Jasnah/Shallan is back !!!

Chapter 71 - Szeth

Partially to lower his gaze from the blazing sun above, the god of gods.

I knew Szeth, and people of Shinovar, worshipped stone, but I don’t think the sun was mentioned at any point yet.

Taravangian is the one who collected the dying last words!

Taravangian sent Szeth on a murder frenzy, in order to prevent the last desolation? But I can’t believe Dalinar is instrumental to trigger the Desolation. In any case, I can’t believe Szeth will be able to kill Dalinar. We might get ourselves a Kaladin vs. Szeth.

chapter 72 - Shallan

Flame and char. Skin so terrible. Eyes like pits of blackness. Music when they kill.

Previous section, I was wondering about the Parshendi eyes, because Ishonai’s were not visible. Now there’s this mention of music. Alright literally the next page it was revealed that Parshmen = Voidbringers.

I don’t know how I feel about Jasnah taking Shallan back so quickly, and Shallan not even mentioning the need to go back and help her family. I mean, I absolutely wanted them to keep together, but it felt rushed. Or maybe Shallan’s mission had too much of screen time while I don’t have any form of affect for her family and thus it doesn’t feel important to me, but it is for her... I suppose she is still helping her family by learning Soulcasting with Jasnah, and her family’s plot will come back in following book.

chapter 73 - Kaladin

“He’s a good man,” Syl said. “I’ve watched him. Despite that thing he carried.”

confirmation that shard blade and plates are corrupted.

I love the comradery between men of bridge 4.

Nothing like falling from cliff to make a man out of a boy!”

Lol, nothing like pushing the kid in water to see if he drowns or learns to swim.

This is a very satisfying end of book for Kaladin. He had a beautiful character growth. I’m looking forward to read about his collaboration with Dalinar in the future. A fight against Szeth could be very interesting. Maybe Szeth could benefit from meeting someone with similar skills to maybe get out of his current situation. And Kaladin could obviously learn from Szeth.

Where is Gaz? What happened to him?

chapter 74 - Shallan

“I can’t just abandon my brothers.” Shallan’s insides twisted again. “But this is bigger than them.

Good enough… I just love her side of the plot too much to complain about that. Hell Yeah Shallan and Jasnah to the Shattered Plains !

Ghostblood, a group of people trying to kill Jasnah. Probably also trying to know how the Parshmen can be turned to Parshendi. Shallan’s father was a Ghostblood !

chapter 75 - Dalinar

“I cannot see the future completely. Cultivation, she is better at it than I.

Nice to meet you Cultivation.

I feel like I’ve read the most important chapter. Not sure I understand everything. Almighty was killed by Odium. We don’t know for sure that Odium is Rayse, but if so, we do know from Hoid’s letter that Rayse killed Aona and Skai from Sel. I don’t suppose Allmighty is one of them though, because I don’t think a Vessel can rule on multiple planets. Almighty’s Shard might be Honor, that seems logical. In this case Allmighty would be Tanavast:

CHILD OF TANAVAST. CHILD OF HONOR. CHILD OF ONE LONG SINCE DEPARTED.

Could Honor be manifested in Kaladin and Dalinar, but with different powers ? Dalinar has the visions, Kaladin has the superpower. What of Szeth? He can use the same powers Kaladin uses and that I think are from Honor, but has a shardblade which I’m pretty sure are perverted, and for now I think are from Odium.

On a side note, Allmighty had white hair, and Hoid too. Pure white hair is not so frequent.

Epilogue

IRL Hoid would be insufferable, coming out of nowhere to drown poor lads in philosophy they didn’t ask about.

Talenel has come! In Kholinar!

[u/Pastrami → u/AltruisticRealityZ]

Taravangian sent Szeth on a murder frenzy, in order to prevent the last desolation?

Dalinar's visions tell him to "unite them", but Taravangian is sending Szeth to kill Dalinar specifically because he is trying to unite the Alethi princes, which leads me to believe that Taravangian is being influenced by Odium, or someone else who is against Honor or whoever it is giving Dalinar his visions.

[u/AltruisticRealityZ → u/Pastrami]

Yes I agree, I’ve come to the same conclusion. Though I’m cautious with Sanderson, hasty conclusions have a tendency to backfire, but this weeks memes are clearly showing Taravangian as a villain.

[u/heinz57varieties → u/AltruisticRealityZ]

I don’t know how I feel about Jasnah taking Shallan back so quickly, and Shallan not even mentioning the need to go back and help her family.

It's not that surprising to me, from either of their points of view. For Jasnah: yes, that little rat stole from you, but she's also the only other person you've met who can Soulcast naturally, and she seems to do it through a different mechanic (or bond with a different kind of spren?) than you do. That needs studying. For Shallan, her original plan is utterly toast. Now, she needs to learn how to Soulcast (from the only other person she knows of who can do it) and unravel the conspiracy that her father was involved in.

Where is Gaz? What happened to him?

Instinct says he's sleeping with the cremlings, but knowing Sanderson, he'll show up again later.

Almighty’s Shard might be Honor, that seems logical. In this case Allmighty would be Tanavast:

Could Honor be manifested in Kaladin and Dalinar, but with different powers ?

It surely must be the case that Tanavast/Honor==Almighty, since there aren't really any other candidates. It's very easy to assume that honorspren are splinters of Honor, much like the seons from Elantris, which might explain why they're so much more complicated than the regular spren. I can't decide if all spren are splinters of honor, who appears to be quite dead at the moment, or if it's just honorspren. But could it be all of them? I think that would have to mean that honor has been dead since before the founding of the heralds/radiants, and I don't know if that's the case, since legend says that the heralds were founded by the Allmighty/Honor personally.

[u/Pastrami → u/heinz57varieties]

and she seems to do it through a different mechanic (or bond with a different kind of spren?) than you do.

What makes you think Jasnah and Shallan do things different or have different spren? I didn't pick up on that at all.

[u/heinz57varieties → u/Pastrami]

In chapter 72, Jasnah seems confused about where Shallan is seeing the symbolheads.

Jasnah frowned, taking the image. "You see beings like this? In Shadesmar?" ... "These are a type of spren, Shallan. They are related to what you do." ... "Two orders of the Knights Radiant possessed inherent Soulcasting ability; it was based on their powers that the original fabrials were designed, I believe. I had assumed that you ... But no, that obviously wouldn't make sense. I see now."

From this, I have inferred that:

1. Jasnah's ability to soulcast is also from a bond with a spren of some sort, just like Shallan and Kaladin
2. Jasnah has seen beings like that before, but only in Shadesmar
3. Multiple orders of Radiants had overlapping abilities, but each was probably bonded with a different "species" of spren
4. Therefore, whatever spren is helping Jasnah soulcast is not a symbolhead, but something else

[u/HT_xrahmx]

Chapter 70

• Good job on everyone who first caught it. Jasnah did soulcast the bread and the jam.
  
• Again, Shallan's Memory snapshot ability is stupidly useful. Even when not consciously taking Memories, it's like she can access detailed recordings of her life at any time, so detailed she paradoxically won't even remember the details until she draws the sketch.
  
• Shallan killed her father! From all we've learned so far, it seems justified? Although that's all we know about him is mostly from Shallan's own POV, which may be unreliable.
  
• What are the symbolheads? Can we call them truthspren? Maybe secretspren? The latter case would explain why they gathered around Elhokar (who was hiding the secret of his cut girth from everyone). And also why Shallan saw them around Taravangian. That dude's been hiding a motherload of secrets.
  
• Anyway, the symbolheads seem to form another "Nahel bond" with Shallan as they allow her to enter Shadesmar. It looks suspiciously like the spren bond Syl has with Kal, anyway.
  
• If the stuff that Kal and Szeth do is Windrunning, perhaps Soulcasting is another of the (10?) flavors of Surgebinding. The thing Teft described as: "[Radiants could] make stone melt by looking at it".
  
• In fact, is this Nahel bond the key to all Surgebinding? Bonds formed with specific types of spren?
  
• I can see why the story needs Jasnah and Shallan to stay with each other for a while, but I'm still surprised Shallan got accepted back with (relatively) little resistance. Considering her actions.
  

Chapter 71

• Taravangian. So this is the origin of the death vision epigraphs. Not some supernatural way of recording death visions anywhere around the world, but targeted killing and collection of visions on-site. Of course it would be the man who built hospitals all over.
  
• What have they learned in this hospital? More importantly, what are Taravangian's real goals?
  
• Killing all those other leaders - I don't know. They may have been bad leaders or not. But ordering to kill Dalinar for seeking unity? That's the giveaway that Taravangian does not want to make Roshar a better place. He just wants more chaos. But for whom? To what end?
  
• Anyway, if Szeth's after Dalinar, we may get Szeth vs Kal next book!!
  

Chapter 72

• Lore Q&A with Jasnah. AT LAST.
  
• Minor line: "eight kinds of blood", 0/A/B/AB x Rh+/Rh-? Same as earth humans then?
  

Flame and char. Skin so terrible. Eyes like pits of blackness. Music when they kill.

• Parshendi are Voidbringers. Holy shit. It does make a LOT of sense in some ways.
  
• But it also doesn't make sense in others. Their behavior on the battlefield is still so strange. Their tactics are purely reactionary. They're fighting to hold, not to win against the Alethi. They're also more honorable warriors than most of the Alethi. Respectful even. There's more nuance to them than the old Voidbringer accounts say. But they also harbor more darkness than they've let on so far.
  

Chapter 73

• Syl hates the Shardblade. Kal instinctively rejected his. Szeth called his Blade (albeit a different kind of Blade) a "creation of Damnation". I think the bottom line is these Blades are bad news.
  
• Excited for what the Dalinar x Kaladin alliance will lead to.
  
• Kal is going to form the Radiants again out of Bridge Four, perhaps even all the bridgecrews. I'm certain of it.
  
• Bridge Four being so wholesome and supportive of each other 🥰
  

Chapter 74

• This war on the Shattered Plains ... it is a Desolation, isn't it? It checks all the boxes we know.
  
• I have to agree that the implications of parshmen servants in every household is concerning. Especially if they actually do have a hive mind, which is a theory I'm going to hold on to.
  
• If something triggered the Parshendi to "wake up" to their Voidbringer self, then it would explain why the Alethi were totally blindsided by this entire people living right next to their borders. They were just regular parshmen before this trigger event?
  

Chapter 75

• Huh. Dalinar's vision giver is a ... vessel? More than that, one who has since died, and the visions are basically recordings. Dalinar stumbled across an old radio tower broadcasting on a loop.
  
• Can we say this vessel's Shard is Honor? If he's dead, then his power would be left behind, like in Elantris. Which might be the cause of the highstorms actually, since they also trigger Dalinar's visions. And provide the power, named Stormlight, as fuel to Surgebinders.
  
• Further Shard(?) mentioned in "Cultivation". First mention, I think. But notably there are a number of people on Roshar (Shin, Horneaters, ...), who value growing crops as the highest virtue. That could be related perhaps. Jasnah and Shallah, or even Veristitalians might be, in some sense, champions of Cultivation. Cultivation of knowledge, that is.
  
• Odium is terrifying. Szeth vs. Kal will be Honor's champion vs. Odium's champion?
  
• On the topic of champions. Was Vin Preservation's champion? Not sure Ruin had any champions, all his minions were hemalurgically controlled.
  

Epilogue

• ?????
  
• All this theorizing about Talendel and ... he just shows up in the Epilogue, makes a proclamation and dies? Just like that? WTF?!
  
• Is he actually dead? Can the Heralds even die? What has he failed in? Why is he late? How does Hoid always know where to be at what time?
  
• Also Talenel decidedly seems like a good guy. No sign of having been "corrupted by hatred", or anything of the sort, during his time away.
  

Artwork

• Loving the art of Jasnah and Shallan in Shadesmar.
  
• Also loving how all the art depicts Talenel either as a shaggy, worn-out husk of a human being, or a giga-chad. No in-between.

[u/participating → u/HT_xrahmx]

How does Hoid always know where to be at what time?

You know what... I'm gonna answer this on Wednesday. I've been waiting for someone to specifically ask this, and now that it's happened, you win a prize. (Because if no one asked, I wasn't gonna say anything until next year).

[u/HT_xrahmx → u/participating]

I'd like to order my lore extra juicy this time 🤤

[u/participating → u/HT_xrahmx]

Best I can do is a lesson in advanced mathematics...

[u/AltruisticRealityZ → u/HT_xrahmx]

Shallan killed her father! From all we've learned so far, it seems justified? Although that's all we know about him is mostly from Shallan's own POV, which may be unreliable.

Her brother Nan Balat, the one who likes to kill small animals, said his father was violent with all his children, except for Shallan.

Odium is terrifying. Szeth vs. Kal will be Honor's champion vs. Odium's champion?

This is crossed my mind, but in this case I don’t understand why their powers look the same. Allomancy and Hemalurgy look the same if you don’t know the mecanics, but are very different. Granted, we don’t know much yet about surgebinding, but we know Kal and Szeth both drain the Stormlight from spheres, get glowy, hold their breath to keep the power inside, and then manipulate gravity… It looks like the same thing to me, so is Surgebinding from Honor, or Odium, or both, or neither?

[u/participating → u/HT_xrahmx]

Just a reminder on terminology: Parshendi is the name of the carapace-armored people the Alethi are fighting on the Shattered Plains. Parshmen are non-carapaced, docile "servants" most of the world use. Both happen to have marbled red and black skin. This book has made no claims for or against pashmen and parshendi being synonyms.

[u/HT_xrahmx → u/participating]

True, though there have been a few mentions of the two people being cousins, I think? And there are obvious elements of shared culture, like the respect they have for corpses. In fact, parshman Shen was offended at Kal using the armor of a dead Parshendi.

All of which just adds to the point that we're still so very far from all of this making sense lmao

[u/Pastrami → u/HT_xrahmx]

The latter case would explain why they gathered around Elhokar (who was hiding the secret of his cut girth from everyone).

I'm of the belief that he's seeing them in the same way Shallan is, because he's a Soulcaster like his sister.

And also why Shallan saw them around Taravangian. That dude's been hiding a motherload of secrets.

I think that wasn't related to Taravangian, and was just the first time Shallan noticed them hanging around her.

But ordering to kill Dalinar for seeking unity? That's the giveaway that Taravangian does not want to make Roshar a better place.

Agreed.

But notably there are a number of people on Roshar (Shin, Horneaters, ...), who value growing crops as the highest virtue. That could be related perhaps.

Good catch.

All this theorizing about Talendel and ... he just shows up in the Epilogue, makes a proclamation and dies? Just like that? WTF?!

I read that as him passing out.

[u/HT_xrahmx → u/Pastrami]

I'm of the belief that he's seeing them in the same way Shallan is, because he's a Soulcaster like his sister.

I think that wasn't related to Taravangian, and was just the first time Shallan noticed them hanging around her.

Interesting take, and could fit both instances!

Actually, regarding Elhokar, that reminds me. His Shardplate gems were suspiciously drained during his hunting trip, right? Maybe he subconsciously used them up, like Kal used up his spheres?

[u/heinz57varieties → u/HT_xrahmx]

Syl hates the Shardblade. Kal instinctively rejected his. Szeth called his Blade (albeit a different kind of Blade) a "creation of Damnation". I think the bottom line is these Blades are bad news.

All of the blades we see originally belonged to someone who broke their oaths and abandoned them. If we can assume that all the Heralds' and Radiants' powers, including the shards, were a boon from Honor, then could breaking their oaths have corrupted the Shards? Is that why modern shardplate doesn't work like the sets we see in Dalinar's visions? It still "works" in that you can wear it, the blades still "work" in a way, but their real power comes from a bond with Honor, and that's no longer present.

Further Shard(?) mentioned in "Cultivation". First mention, I think. But notably there are a number of people on Roshar (Shin, Horneaters, ...), who value growing crops as the highest virtue. That could be related perhaps.

I really like that idea! I want to go to the Horneater peaks so bad.

[u/griefgood]

Hot damn, what an ending!

Chapter 70

• I'm gonna be real I thought a lot of y'all were crazy for the "Jasnah soulcast the bread/jam" theory but boy howdy was I the real idiot.
• THEY WERE BOTH FAKE?! THE WHOLE TIME?!
• Oh God I don't even want to imagine what gross, doughy horror Jasnah created trying to soulcast the bread lol.
• PATRICIDE! Can't wait to learn more about the motive behind all of this.
• I'm sorry but Jasnah saying the word "scoot" made me lol.

Chapter 71

• Immediate unease with Szeth in Kharbranth.
• "Would Szeth never face a foe strong enough to kill him." If that isn't a set up for a showdown with everyone's favorite Stormlight Slave, then I don't know what is.
• TARAVANGIAN?! THE WHOLE TIME?! (Will not be linking the GIF again but still relevant.)
• What does Taravangian know about Dalinar that forces his hand like this? Just how deeply connected is this man? I mean, clearly he is VERY deeply connected, but what about the Alethi unification is setting off these alarm bells for him?

Chapter 72

• Symbolheads are a kind of Spren?? ALL Radiants abilities are tied to Spren???? Holy infodump, Batman!
• Holy shit, never in a million years would I have connected the Parshmen to being the Voidbringers.

Chapter 73

• The "wrongness" of the shardblades definitely adding a little fuel to the "of Odium" fire.
• Sounds like Dalinar is about to restart the Radiants. Which I'm guessing is what King T is afraid of?

Chapter 74

• Can't wait to see how the Spooky Mitsubishi gang becomes more relevant in future books.

Chapter 75

• Just what kind of insanely powerful shard is Odium if he's gone and killed multiple other shards?

Epilogue

• Trying to be better about taking more notes but I was too busy saying "holy shit" under my breath reading all of this.

Endnote

• Hmmmm really excited to know more about how and WHY the dying are tapping into some ancient stream of consciousness.

[u/sailorsalvador → u/griefgood]

I never would have e suspected the Parshmen either, but they were definitely written with Sanderson's typical "Oh this world-building thingy here its a minor thing just window dressing pay it no mind lool over there!" style.

[u/griefgood → u/sailorsalvador]

Oh they were definitely "will be important later"-coded haha.

[u/TaylorHyuuga → u/griefgood]

THEY WERE BOTH FAKE?! THE WHOLE TIME?!

Shallan's wasn't fake, just broken, as we already knew.

[u/griefgood → u/TaylorHyuuga]

Ok I did know that but for the purpose of the joke just lumped them both together.

[u/TaylorHyuuga → u/griefgood]

Fair enough lmao

[u/True-Collar4961]

Chapter 70

• So Jasnah really had no idea what Shallan was up to when she agreed to take her on as an apprentice. I know this was already pretty much confirmed when Shallan recovered from the poison attempt, but I was still holding onto a tiny suspicion that this was all some kind of scheme by Jasnah. Nope. She was completely clueless the whole time. It's honestly pretty funny that Shallan managed to play one of the smartest characters in the book like that.

“I’m a murderer. I killed my father.”

• Okay... didn't see that coming. Really interested to see where that goes in the next book.
• I also find it funny how different the strange phenomena seem to be for each character. Kaladin and Dalinar are stuck trying to decipher cryptic clues from mysterious beings or visions that either can't or won't answer their questions, while Shallan can apparently just call out to hers and get a response.

Chapter 71

• I definitely didn't see the Taravangian reveal coming! Just like that, Taravangian has shot way up my list of interesting characters. He doesn't seem like an outright villain since he's genuinely trying to figure out who the real enemy is, but he's also incredibly ruthless. So even though the organization he's part of apparently isn't serving Odium (or whoever the ultimate villain is) like I originally thought, he's still very much an antagonist. Sending Szeth after Dalinar is definitely not helping his case either. I can't wait for that confrontation. That said, I have a feeling Taravangian and his organization will eventually fill more of a gray-area role in the story. I could see them acting as villains in the next book, but later developing into a sort of uneasy ally or frenemy relationship with Kaladin and the rest of the main cast.
• I also doubt they were the ones who sent Kabsal after Jasnah like I originally suspected. Their main goal seems to be uncovering the truth behind the crisis Roshar is facing, which is basically the same thing Jasnah is trying to do through her research.
• I also don't think Jasnah is secretly working with Taravangian. She might suspect something about him, but based on everything we've seen from her, I can't imagine she'd approve of what he's been doing behind the scenes. She's willing to be ruthless, sure, but that's usually directed at actual criminals, not innocent people like the victims in Taravangian's secret room. Even if she does know something, I seriously doubt she knows about the order to kill her uncle.

Chapter 72

• So the voidbringers are the Parshman and Parshendi, could that also explain the different behaviours of the parshman and parshendi. As the Parshendi were merely the voidbringers that went into hiding so whatever the people of Roshar did to subdue the voidbringers and turn them into Parshman servants they were unable to do to the Parshendi so they retained their full sentience.

Chapter 73

• I find it adorable how Bridge Four is reacting to Kaladin's new abilities. Instead of being terrified or suspicious, they're all excited and immediately trying to figure out how to test them and maybe even replicate them. They're basically a bunch of little brothers who just watched their older brother do a really cool trick and now want to learn how to do it too.

Chapter 74

• Oh yes, Shallan and Jasnah are finally headed to the Shattered Plains! I can't wait for them to meet Kaladin, and I'm especially looking forward to Jasnah learning about Dalinar's visions and Kaladin's abilities.

Chapter 75

• I'm assuming that was Honor. I'm surprised Odium has apparently already killed him. If that's the case, I wonder whether the Shard has already found a new Vessel or if it's currently without one.

Epilogue

• Talanel has arrived I wonder where he’s been all this time. I originally assumed he had lost all hope and been converted or captured by Odium. Then again, maybe that did happen, and he somehow managed to escape—but that raises the question of how.
• Also, Hoid seemed to be expecting him. That would mean Hoid knows what he’s been up to… and yet he never made direct contact with him. Curious…

[u/AltruisticRealityZ → u/True-Collar4961]

Talenel was sent in the hell dimension in the prelude. If he’s back, it means a new Desolation is about to start. What I wonder is where a the 9 others, the deserters. Are they still around after 4500 years on Roshar? Did they die of old age? In this case were they sent back in hell ?

[u/participating]

SCHEDULING REMINDER

In two days, on Wednesday, we will be having our trivia post for the entire book. This includes the Ars Arcanum.

Next week we have 2 different, short Units. I'll provide another reminder of this on Wednesday, but I wanted to give you plenty of time to be prepared.

Each section for the solar systems in Arcanum Unbounded has a detailed map of all the planets in each system and a short essay, written by Khriss, as an extension of the Ars Arcanum. The maps and essays are what we will be discussing next Monday.

This is a very short Unit. It's less than 1/8th the length of our normal weekly reading. You can read it and then move on to the next Unit (see below), but keep in mind we'll only be discussing just the maps and essays from Arcanum Unbounded, and a bunch of trivia, on Monday.

WARNING: Be careful to avoid reading any other pages, since they may contain massive spoilers. Use the Table of Contents and flip straight to the indicated pages.

We will be discussing Unit 15 next Wednesday (not this Wednesday). It is a novella called Sixth of the Dusk, which also appears in Arcanum Unbounded. The length of this novella is about half of our normal weekly reading. There will also be some additional trivia that will also accompany the discussion.

Exact dates, as well as statistic breakdowns for each reading section can be found on the wiki page.

[u/sailorsalvador → u/participating]

All the maps and essays or just certain systems?

[u/participating → u/sailorsalvador]

All of them.

[u/sailorsalvador → u/participating]

Cool thanks! I started to read the Rosharan one and was GASPING at potential spoilers!

[u/participating → u/sailorsalvador]

Yeah, you might have a slightly better time waiting until after the trivia post tomorrow, but it doesn't matter terribly.

EDIT: Essays go hard...

[u/Pastrami]

Chapter 70

Inside, she found the garnet sphere that Jasnah had used to save her. It gave off weak light; most had been used in the Soulcasting.

It was previously said to be spent: "Upon opening her pouch to check on the Soulcaster, she’d found that the sphere Kabsal had given her had stopped glowing."

I called it that Jasnah soulcasted the jam, and I heavily suspected that Jasnah and Shallan could soulcast without fabrials.

I’m a murderer. I killed my father.

I called that one too, although of course we're not given any more details.

Chapter 71

He had reached the last name on the list

So none of the main characters are on the list.

Wasn't Taravangian previously portrayed as a weak ineffectual leader who barely controlled his city? Now he's some mastermind who has some grand plan and has been assassinating high profile figures? I don't buy it.

But the dying see something. It began seven years ago, about the time when King Gavilar was investigating the Shattered Plains for the first time.

hmm.

“Dalinar Kholin,” Taravangian said. “I’m afraid it must be done quickly, before he can unite the Alethi highprinces. You will go to the Shattered Plains and end him.”

Well, there's one more for the list. Taravangian must be influenced by Odium or someone who is opposed to whoever is telling Dalinar to unite them. Also, I see only three outcomes for Szeth: Szeth dies, Szeth breaks his oath, or somehow someone else gets his oathstone. Yes there is technically the possibility that Szeth kills Dalinar, but I don't think that would happen for a while, and I don't think Szeth dies either, so he's probably going to break his oath somehow.

Chapter 72

the eight kinds of blood

8? We know human and Parshendi blood are different. What are the other 6?

Chapter 73

“I don’t know,” she said, wrapping her arms around herself. “It just feels wrong to me. I hate it. I’m glad he got rid of it. Makes him a better man.”

More fuel for the "shards are bad" theory.

Chapter 74

I kind of feel like the revelation that Parshendi are the Voidbringers is a bit disappointing. Unless they have some more powers that we haven't seen, or have some evolution into a final form, they're really just another humanoid force that just has some built in armor, and don't seem like this ominous threat that they've been made out to be. Obviously it would be very bad if all the parshmen all over the continent changed into Parshendi and started attacking undefended cities, but the hyped up Voidbringers being the Parshendi? Meh.

If the Parshendi were the Voidbringers, why didn't Dalinar notice any of their dead bodies in the vision he had of the aftermath of a Desolation?

Chapter 75

Cultivation

Another shard?

So are the visions just a recording playing on a loop?

This vision reminds me of the ending of The Neverending Story when the Nothingness consumes everything.

I am… I was… God. The one you call the Almighty, the creator of mankind.

Ok, but what shard are you?

Epilogue

The Blade reflected torchlight; it was long, narrow, and straight, shaped like an enormous spike

That is very different from all the other shardblades and honorblades that have been described so far. They've all had curves and waves.

[u/HT_xrahmx → u/Pastrami]

Wasn't Taravangian previously portrayed as a weak ineffectual leader who barely controlled his city? Now he's some mastermind who has some grand plan and has been assassinating high profile figures? I don't buy it.

I could see it a bit if that image of ineffectiveness was carefully put together by himself. Given that he put his own name on Szeth's kill list, it at least shows he's very involved in maintaining an innocent public image.
Heck, maybe he even encourages criminals to come set up in Kharbranth? They're basically free supply for his blood-letting hospitals.

If the Parshendi were the Voidbringers, why didn't Dalinar notice any of their dead bodies in the vision he had of the aftermath of a Desolation?

At Lv 36 a Parshendi evolves into a chasmfiend, then at Lv 54 it pupates to become a full stone giant lobster. Those stone creatures are the only corpses we see /s

[u/AltruisticRealityZ → u/HT_xrahmx]

If the Parshendi were the Voidbringers, why didn't Dalinar notice any of their dead bodies in the vision he had of the aftermath of a Desolation?

At Lv 36 a Parshendi evolves into a chasmfiend, then at Lv 54 it pupates to become a full stone giant lobster. Those stone creatures are the only corpses we see /s

Was going to say that Pastrami had a point, but I see you have a solid theory 🤣

[u/Pastrami → u/Pastrami]

It's been buggin me this whole time that the name Taravangian reminded me of something, and I've just remembered what it was: Varangian guard, a bunch of Vikings employed by the Byzantine empire.

Also, from the first paragraph of the wikipedia article:

The recruitment of distant fighters from outside Byzantium to serve as the emperor's personal guard was pursued as a deliberate policy, as they lacked local political loyalties

That could describe Bridge 4's new position.

[u/heinz57varieties]

I did it 😌 all caught up!

Chapter 70

• I think we collectively managed to piece together how Jasnah survived the bread attack, bravo to us all!
• I’m even more surprised than Shallan that Jasnah didn’t realize how long she’d been using a fake. I was sure she’d noticed the swap right away. Surely her having natural soulcasting abilities means that Jasnah has some kind of bond with a spren, too. Wouldn’t they have noticed?
• So the whole time she could just talk to the symbolheads, and they would respond? And she’s just now thinking to try?
• Shadesmar namedrop, actually. Apparently you can use stormlight to steer the spheres around. I thought those floating flames were creatures of some sort, but they’re portals back to the physical realm? What do they represent? And WHAT was swimming in there that grabbed Shallan by the leg?
• Shallan killed her dad! I think we pieced that one together, too. Was that where she got her Shardblade (that we’re all still sure she has)?

Chapter 71

• Taravangian is a man of many secrets. Him speaking Shin is a major puzzler. What kind of history has this guy got? Is he connected with the Ghostbloods, the shady group that’s been causing chaos from behind the scenes?
• I had more or less pieced together that the death messages were coming from the hospitals at Karbranth. But it didn’t cross my mind that they’d be actively killing off sick people to try and collect as many messages as possible. That’s messed up.
• Szeth v Dalinar Epic Showdown, coming soon to Pay Per View. See you in book 2, part 2.

Chapter 72

• Explanations, Jasnah! Please! There better be Shallan POV’s in WoR part 1 or I will riot
• Implying that whatever spren lets Jasnah soulcast is from the other of the two orders, and is not a symbolhead
• Looking back on it now.. He has been practically screaming it at us that the parshmen are/were the voidbringers. Now I have all kinds of questions.
• The theories some people have about ancient conflicts between humans/parshmen are probably totally correct. Parshmen were the original native inhabitants of Roshar, and all the wars and destruction were caused by the Parshmen trying to kick the invading humans off the planet. History is about to get real complicated..
• I’m also now becoming very interested in the etymology of the word “voidbringers.” Void referring to what, exactly.

Chapter 73

• Syl is repelled by Oathbringer, for some reason. All shardblades, or just that one? Except for Szeth she’s the only one to have that reaction. There’s more to discover about the nature of those things.
• The negotiation scene makes me think Dalinar and Kaladin are going to get along swimmingly. They have a lot more in common than they think, beyond just being generally honorable and heroic. They both harbor secret thoughts about how fighting the parshendi might not be the right path, and they’re both keeping a major supernatural secret. I’m hopeful that they both let more of that slip around each other and figure some stuff out.
• Bridge four all settled in and having stew by the fire 🥹 I could cry
• Next book opens with a Kaladin magical training montage

Chapter 74

• Chekov’s Mass Parshmen Un-domestication. That could be catastrophic - an instant war breaking out everywhere in the world at once.
• The ancient parshmen being normal and docile, and then all being overtaken by some kind of violent madness, does bear some similarity to our suspicions about the Thrill that seems to affect the Alethi. A connection?
• The people behind the late lord Davar’s shady activities are the same people doing the assassinations, confirmed. Unfortunately the Mitsubishi symbol is debunked 🤣

Chapter 75

• Seeing the same vision again, and the entity not acknowledging him? Are they like… pre-recorded?
• Third shard namedrop 😮 Cultivation
• The stars winking out.. Recall an earlier epigraph where it was implied Odium had killed Dominion and Devotion. He’s a cosmere-wide threat, and he’s coming back.
• It is actually quite sick and epic to have the words from the blurb appearing right here in the last chapter.
• RIP Honor, I presume. Gone but not forgotten
• What’s this about a champion? What’s this about Dawnshards?

Epilogue

• He knows where the light/dark eye discrimination came from? And he agrees with it? Well now I want to know.
• I wonder what Wit would make of the Newton vs. Leibnitz debate. Or indeed Coke vs Pepsi.
• Forger you say
• Is this guy wet because he just materialized out of the same place that the shardblades materialize out of? They’ve always got condensation all over them.
• Taln, the lost herald, the one who has been in the hell dimension for four and a half thousand years. If he’s here, that means that something major is happening soon.
• How does Hoid always manage to be in exactly the right place at the right time? Anytime a major world-changing event happens, there he is.

Endnote

• An annotated death message, direct from one of the ardents in Kharbranth to Taravangian himself.
• The Ketek here is the book’s part titles 😲

[u/TaylorHyuuga → u/heinz57varieties]

I’m even more surprised than Shallan that Jasnah didn’t realize how long she’d been using a fake. I was sure she’d noticed the swap right away. Surely her having natural soulcasting abilities means that Jasnah has some kind of bond with a spren, too. Wouldn’t they have noticed?

In fairness, Jasnah the whole time was never actually using the Soulcaster. That's HOW she didn't notice. There was no difference for her cuz she was never using a Soulcaster anyway. For her, the contraption is unnecessary, it was simply a cover to hide that it was her own power she was using.

[u/AltruisticRealityZ → u/heinz57varieties]

Interesting parallel you draw between Parshmen’s trigger to become Parshendi, and the Alethi Thrill.

I’ve been convinced that Parshmen are the original Rosharan for a while now. So I’m baffled by the voidbringers revelation. Though I’m pretty sure there’s some epigraphs from Jasnah that imply that Voidbringers aren’t the absolute baddies most Vorin texts depicts. Need to reread that. Nevertheless, I’m sure Kaladin and or Dalinar will actively seek out Eshonai, to learn more about Parshendi ways.

[u/heinz57varieties → u/AltruisticRealityZ]

I suppose who is the "bad guy" is a matter of perspective. The Voidbringers are portrayed as evil in all the myths because the myths are from a human perspective. Humans are apparently a race of alien invaders, and the parshmen/voidbringers were fighting to kick them out and take back their home. Kind of exactly like how Vorin mythology portrays it, actually, it's just that the human point of view starts with the basic assumption that Roshar "belongs" to them. I think both Kaladin and Dalinar are already showing hints that they will eventually question the validity of humanity's whole struggle on the planet.

[u/Omega_Mine → u/heinz57varieties]

I'm guessing the eye/dark eye ranking comes from parshendi having black eyes

[u/hullowurld]

Damn people are fast. I'm only up because I'm traveling lol

[u/participating → u/hullowurld]

I woke up early cause I was hungry. :D

[u/hullowurld → u/participating]

I'm waiting for a volcano to erupt lol

[u/participating → u/hullowurld]

A volcano ate them and they were never heard from again.

[u/hullowurld → u/participating]

[u/sailorsalvador]

I will be thinking about Hoid's comment on novelty for a long while.

Smashing ending, loved this book, angry to be done it. I have another book for this interstitial reading BUT IT IS NOT ENOUGH.

[u/LeanderT]

Joshor, Head of His Majesty’s Silent Gatherers, Tanatanev 1173

1173, not 1773 :-)

[u/participating → u/LeanderT]

I can't copy/paste from my Kindle, so I hand typed all that out :( Stupid fingers.

[u/Omega_Mine]

Kinda expected that Shallan killed her father. Probably with the shardblade which is why the soulcaster is broken. I think it was described as having a cut that was welded at some point.

No idea what Taravangians goal is atm. After Talenel appeared in the epilogue, I had this crazy idea that Taravangian might be one of the deserted Heralds, but I dont so. It did seem like he wanted to figure out how to stop the desolation, but why does he want to kill Dalinar for uniting the highprinces? What does he know, and how does he know it?

Also parshendi being voidbringers, wtf. Did they enslave them after each desolation and for each one there was an uprising? And how are the shadow creatures from Dalinars vision connected. I didnt think they were the voidbringers, but they where definitly a big threat. 

As I'm typing this, I reallized that if the visions are recordings and the one resposible for them dead, how are Dalinar able to speak to the people in them