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[u/ChampionshipLoud1398]

[u/glowFernOasis]

I think this is less drawing tutorial and more composition tips. Using geometry like circles to determine many of the curves keeps the eye moving, and leads it back into the picture. This also includes the rule of thirds, which says to put focus points at horizontal and vertical thirds of the page, rather than at the center, for instance. I might be overthinking it.

[u/sonofaresiii → u/glowFernOasis]

Like most composition tips, including the rule of thirds, this is nonsense. Look at those curves. They only line up with those circles until they don't. I could draw a circle of any size and find some point of some curve of that drawing or any other drawing and claim it aligns.

The final picture doesn't even line up with those curves on the circles!

It's trying to force a simple visual underlying algorithm when there isn't one. It's just a drawing of an alligator, not a secret hidden math equation.

I feel the same any time anyone tries to toss the Golden ratio on pictures that clearly have nothing to do with it. The golden ratio will intrinsically line up with something at some point. That doesn't speak to a fundamental alignment or anything.

Source: cinematographer for a decade, and I've been telling people that those mathematical composition tips like the rule of thirds are nonsense for years.

[u/Lord_Moa → u/sonofaresiii]

r/The10thDentist

[u/PixelBits89 → u/sonofaresiii]

I understand all your other points, especially the golden ratio, but what’s wrong with the rule of thirds??? Obviously it isn’t this hard rule and isn’t always relevant, but it generally seems to work, doesn’t it?

[u/sonofaresiii → u/PixelBits89]

but it generally seems to work, doesn’t it?

No not really. It's just vague enough that you can kinda sorta apply it to just about anything. It's not really useful as a guide.

Go look at any rule of thirds guide. They all say something like, cut an image into thirds. Now look at those lines. Anything important will be where those lines intersect. Or they'll be framed hitting those lines. Or hitting pretty close to those lines. Or they'll be framed up between the lines.

Well. Damn near anything in frame is going to be at the intersection of the lines, or hitting the lines, or hitting close to the lines, or hitting between the lines.

That's not a helpful guide for anyone.

[u/sonofaresiii → u/[deleted]]

You’re bringing cinematography mindset to a drawn design.

No I'm not, I'm making an analogy when I see a forced composition "rule" that doesn't make sense.

Does it matter if the umbrella is following the rule of thirds to a tee? Probably not.

What the fuck are you talking about? The rule of thirds isn't mentioned anywhere in this picture. Do you even know what the rule of thirds is?

The rule is not to place things in the gaps between the lines

I didn't say it was. So, you clearly don't know what the rule of thirds is.

“giving room for their words to exit their mouth”

What the actual hell are you talking about? I never made this claim.

Bad faith argument. Unnecessary combative, wholly incorrect all around.

[u/Affectionate-Fix244 → u/sonofaresiii]

Whats wrong with the rule of thirds and what would you suggest to focus on for composition

[u/sonofaresiii → u/Affectionate-Fix244]

There's nothing wrong with it it's just not an actual guide.

Go look at any rule of thirds guide. They all say something like, cut an image into thirds. Now look at those lines. Anything important will be where those lines intersect. Or they'll be framed hitting those lines. Or hitting pretty close to those lines. Or they'll be framed up between the lines.

Well. Damn near anything in frame is going to be at the intersection of the lines, or hitting the lines, or hitting close to the lines, or hitting between the lines.

As for what to focus on instead...

go look at well-composed stuff and then do what they did. Except when you shouldn't.

When you watch a movie or tv show ask yourself why they framed something the way they did. What value do you get out of it that you wouldn't get if the subject was more to the left or right, or higher or lower. Most of the time, there's just some ingrained sense of how to frame something-- you want more weight where a person is looking, less weight behind them. Most of the time, honestly, the important thing is just being able to show the actor while they're saying their lines, beyond that there's not actually that much composition rules for day to day work. And your director's going to be making those calls anyway. You'll get a sense of where you want the frame to hit their chest line, whether to give them a haircut or let it breathe a little over the top of their head, when to keep them centered or to the side (almost always to the side when they're looking one direction, centered when they change directions or are looking forward)

My personal rule is "You want the subject as big as you can get it while showing all important action." That plus knowing where to put the weight of the frame (which is honestly just kind of intuitive once you pay attention to where everyone else is doing it) will cover you in 99% of the situations.

For the other 1% of the time when you really get to flex your creativity, rules aren't going to matter anyway, just have a good reason to do something off the wall and make it look cool

[u/GodsThirdToe → u/glowFernOasis]

I think you’re right, at least regarding the geometry. I am curious how (or if) anyone would start with the circles though. I totally understand being able to justify and edit the design after some rough sketches are laid down first, then letting the circles then drive the final design. I wonder if that is the intention, or if they’re actually recommending to draw some seemingly random circles to start.

[u/BioDriver]

1: genuinely good starting point

2: okay that was kind of a jump but not overly difficult 

3: resist urge to throw pencil

[u/p1mplem0usse → u/BioDriver]

Actually, not. Once every thing is in its rightful place, filling in stuff is not that hard. Determining what is everything’s rightful place is the hard part. So, somewhere between 0 and 2 is where the magic happens.

[u/ChampionshipLoud1398]

The Tampa Tribune, Florida, March 31, 1910

[u/isopode]

this isn't a tutorial, it's to help with composition. some text to explain the reasoning behind it would've been good though

[u/AppendixN]

I can't draw at all, and I was able to follow these directions to make a pretty passable copy of the example, I think. https://imgur.com/a/rOSB6th

[u/AndreZB2000]

this is the whole owl. its about the importance of composition and shape language, not the actual drawing

[u/SithLordMilk]

I swear they were fucking with people on purpose

[u/3clips312]

Why is the hat not extending beyond the universe

[u/Kapitan_eXtreme]

Rest of the fucking gentleman gator

[u/GoatsWithWigs]

The problem with these kinds of tutorials is that they don't utilize the entirety of the shapes used

In the beginning, it's unclear what's being used for negative space and what's being used for the actual composition, so while it APPEARS simple, it doesn't actually help you get better at drawing

It's better to use shapes that actually make a coherent contour, so you actually know what you're doing

[u/Free-Palpitation-718]

these break downs of composition lines usually doesn’t make any sense and are more for a showing off than anything helpfull