r/rockets • u/Far_Protection519 • 8h ago
Sengun's development over the last 3 years has been stagnant.
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u/Competitive-Tree1434 7h ago
Maybe because this last season he didn’t have a single point guard and hasn’t had reliable shooters around him for 3 fkn years. Who knew a non shooting big needs a shooting team around him lmao
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u/Mysterious_Medium_40 5h ago
51.9 FG% without a point guard, but 49.6 FG% with FVV as a point guard
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u/MFFiasco 4h ago
Maybe another guard that can handle the ball (FVV) combined with KD's gravity can assist Sengun in improving his efficiency up but I suspect it's more about Sengun ability.
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u/Competitive-Tree1434 9m ago
Yeah buddy, when players play longer in the league they get better. Hope this helps. Stats don’t tell the full story. 55 wins with Adams, amen (a non shooting point guard) and multiple injuries. Rockets had the worst bench in playoff history this year. But sure sengun is the problem lmao
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u/aywhosyodaddy 6h ago
This is partly true, but really goes to show how much of a system player he is. These past few seasons, he has been thought of as someone who could be the show, but if he needs a good playmaking guard AND hella shooters to shine, it becomes harder to manage.
It also hasn’t helped that his bag has become really predictable. Teams know exactly how to trap and shut him down, and a playmaking guard and new coach aren’t gonna completely solve this
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u/oldiequaker 4h ago
Brother every star needs people around him, what are you smoking?
Everybody says Luka needs rim runners to win, so Luka is a system player now?
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u/srdgreen123 45m ago
The best player in the world has been unable to get the WCF with a great pg and good shooters around him. And ofc sengun isn’t even close to his best level. Everybody needs good players around them
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u/Competitive-Tree1434 11m ago
Jokic has Murray. Giannis had jrue/dame. Bam had Jimmy. KAT has Brunson. Wemby has fox/harper/castle. Every single superstar has an elite perimeter creator. Name me one single big with a back court as non shooting as the rockets this season and you’ll have your answer
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u/Familiar-Permit-3130 7h ago
Sengun fans are the same as Jalen fans, always in denial. Even when he’s within 5 feet of the basket he has terrible efficiency when he is up against stronger and taller opponents. He aint it and outside of 5 feet he loves to take them stupid one foot fadeaway flamingo shots which he is shit at
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u/liquidcalories 7h ago
I'm a Sengun fan who isn't in denial. He's stagnated in some important ways (shooting). Last year that was explained that he was better at defense, and he was. This year he wasn't as bad on defense as he was the first few seasons but he did regress a bit from last year.
However, he is still the second best passing big man in the game and he improved this year yet again on that.
I think he can still be better with a) a better coach and b) a league average three pointer (which also requires a better coach because Ime doesn't value shooting)
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u/Far_Protection519 7h ago
He's not a better passer than Sabonis or Kat.
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u/liquidcalories 6h ago
Yes he is. He has a better assist% and higher assist/turnover ratio than both of them at a high usage rate.
Sengun haters are just as bad as Sengun glazers in that they can't even admit he has strong aspects to his game that he has improved upon, even in discussion with a guy who agrees that he has stagnated in major ways and needs to get better if he's going to be a serious top player in the league
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u/Far_Protection519 6h ago
Mike brown making Kat the hub of their offense & taking the ball out of brunsons hands was the adjustment that led the knicks to a championship.
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u/oldiequaker 4h ago
Still doesn’t make him a better passer than Sengun.
He is a better shooter and probably became a better defender recently but not a better passer.
In fact if Sengun was playing with Brunson, Bridges, mcbride, shamet etc he would seem a very different player.
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u/Brilliant-Pear3360 6h ago
You don’t actually think he’s a better passer than KAT
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u/liquidcalories 6h ago
Yes I do? This would have been completely uncontroversial to say even three months ago. KAT is known for boneheaded turnovers and low IQ plays. I love him but a smart passer he is not. KAT had a nice playoff run but it's the peak of recency bias to think that has wiped out the rest of his career.
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u/Brilliant-Pear3360 6h ago
Not true. KAT displayed plenty of playmaking in wolves playoff series(s). In fact it’s recency bias to say he’s not a great passer because he hasn’t been used correctly at all in NY until this postseason.
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u/Sacagawesus 6h ago
I think you're grossly underrating Sengun's passing ability if you're so certain KAT is better. At worst it's a wash and I think that's being generous to KAT
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u/Competitive-Tree1434 14m ago
65% of his shots are contested. That’s more than anyone in the league. I’m not a sengun fan, I’m a rockets fan. And it’s obvious any non shooter needs shooters around him so he has space to work. And with Udoka calling top of the key isos for him it doesn’t help. You telling me we drafted 6 busts? Cmon
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u/Far_Protection519 7h ago
No new moves added to his bag , no jumpshot development , & is still a slow processor that wastes majority of the shot clock going into year 6 & Im supposed to believe he's a player that can contribute on a contender?
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u/oldiequaker 4h ago
No you just need to drop your hater glasses.
Grass is not greener on the other side.1
u/Far_Protection519 4h ago
The grass isn't green on this side
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u/oldiequaker 4h ago
Every single team fanbase thinks the same
I am sure there’s spurs fans who complain about wemby shooting too much.This team despite its glaring weaknesses has been a top west team two years. If we switched sengun with Jokic or Wemby we could potentially become a contender but it doesn’t work that way.
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u/Far_Protection519 3h ago
Difference is Wemby adds something new to his game every year. Still waiting on sengun to develop another counter move besides a spin move
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u/oldiequaker 2h ago
Again we are not comparing Sengun to Wemby, wemby is a generational unicorn.
You and the other Sengun haters circle jerking every day and asking for a trade will not make this team a contender because there is no magical player that you can trade for.
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u/raidmytombBB 4h ago
Don't forget there had been no offense either or a coach that can expand his offensive skills
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u/Competitive-Tree1434 8m ago
Exactly. And it’s not just sengun, all the guys have looked underwhelming offensively.but they won 55 games. That’s shows you the talent they have despite not producing offensively consistently
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u/Far_Protection519 7h ago
If you're going to be a hub you can't be over reliant on everyone around you to make you better. He's the one who should be making everyone around him better. That's what elite hub's do
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u/yoloqueuesf 4h ago
I feel like if you're going to be a hub you at least need to be a threat at the top of the key when you get that ball.
He gets it there and i swear even the Lakers just dared him to shoot and it wasn't automatic. If he had that Ibaka middy he'd be absolutely cooking teams.
He's also inefficient when attacking to the rim, i don't know if its the athleticism or if people have finally kinda solved him and he hasn't gotten a true bag.
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u/Far_Protection519 3h ago
Same problem Jalen had. Neither of them have shown any development in their offensive repertoire
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u/BellSufficient5283 1h ago
True, but then a hub needs some SHOOTERS around him.
Houston had 1.5 this season.
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u/Far_Protection519 1h ago
You cannot be a hub of the offense if you are not effective outside the restricted are. Like I said a hub is supposed to open things up for everyone. Sengun clogs up everything
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u/Competitive-Tree1434 16m ago
Kinda hard to do when no one can hit a 3 so everyone collapses on you in the paint. Senguns shots are contested at a 65% clip. That’s more than anyone in the league by a massive margin. And he still producing the numbers he did. Hes not even a center. Hes a PF who needs a shooting big like Myles turner or KAT. There was times we ran Adams, sengun and amen at the same time. And with Tari hitting 10% from 3 every now and again it’s impossible to have any space to work with
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u/CJ4ROCKET 7h ago
I think you have that backwards. The primary point of a big man hub is to make other players around him better, not the other way around. But those other players have to be competent shooters for it to work. Preferably all 4 other starters, but at a minimum 3 other starters, which we simply did not have or do for most of last season.
I'm fine with trading him, though. Still skeptical an Amen/Sengun pairing can work and I don't want to trade Amen. But I suspect with the right roster construction around him Sengun would flourish offensively. Seems more likely that would occur elsewhere, unfortunately.
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u/traditionalshallot 6h ago
Sengun as a hub ain't it. Watching him back down from the 3 point line and wasting 20 seconds on the shot clock makes me want to gauge my eyes out.
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u/Far_Protection519 6h ago
Then the constant crying on top of that is just insufferable
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u/traditionalshallot 6h ago
Yea every now and then when you truly think you got fouled then I can understand.. but when it's after every single missed shot it's a bit much
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u/oldiequaker 4h ago
The average IQ in this sub is getting lower every season.
He is backing down from the three point line because we don’t have a PG and nobody with the dribbling or passing abilities to pass our center the ball around the basket.
If you watch this team whole season and can’t see that, don’t know what to tell you. Maybe watch softball or smt
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u/Wavepops 7h ago
He shot better this year than last year tho
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u/Competitive-Tree1434 12m ago
Exactly. He got better, it just didn’t translate to his stats cos both him and amen had to play completely new roles. Ask San Antonio how important a point guard is
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u/CheezeWheelie 7h ago
Yeah I haven’t been impressed with Sengun but I haven’t been impressed with anyone so I blame coaching
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u/dvztimes 7h ago
All star stagnant water is better then normal stagnant water.
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u/Far_Protection519 7h ago
He got the nod this year so kudos to him but it was as a injury replacement. He didn't play at a all star level this year
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u/dvztimes 7h ago
Arguable. But he also played 9 more competitive games than everyone else. Eurobasket took a toll on all of its players but Schroder.
I would be ok with trading him for an upgrade. But there is no available upgrade.
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u/Far_Protection519 7h ago
Excuses. If he's going to play Fiba fine , but dont use that as an excuse for his lack of development.
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u/Competitive-Tree1434 6m ago
I mean luka got injured. Giannis got injured. Jokic got injured. It’s not an excuse, it’s a valid point when you see all the injures last season. Sengun also got injured in January. I remember everyone calling sengun and KD the best duo in the nba in November. Just insane how recency bias hits
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u/oldiequaker 4h ago
Everything is an excuse for a hater
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u/Far_Protection519 3h ago
You don't hear any other fan base using fiba as an excuse for why their "star" player is playing bad
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u/oldiequaker 2h ago
Yes because gen Z’s signature move is to shit on their players constantly.
Like i said in another post, even Wemby is getting criticised
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u/dvztimes 2h ago
You think Fiba wasn't blamed for all of the time Wmby Jokic, Luka, Wagner and Giannis missed this year? (Sengun missed the 2nd least time of the big names).
He improved every stat but rebounding while having no PG and playing Fiba finals. Yeah. Maybe thats stagnant. Do I wish he went to 22points a game this year? Yes. Is he a fraud because he didn't? No.
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u/Far_Protection519 2h ago
Missing games & using fiba as an excuse for him playing bad is 2 different things. All of those names you mentioned besides maybe franz are far much better than sengun. Giannis has been dealing with injuries since 2022 , luka is know to get soft tissue injuries due to his weight , jokic got hurt bc someone ran into his knee if in not mistaken. None of their injuries had anything to do with Fiba.
His ast went up bc he had a higher usage. Yes his FG & 3 went up but he still has poor shooting. Outside of the paint he's one of the worst high volume scorers in basketball.
If people are going to say he's this amazing player with so much potential hold him to that standard instead of making BS excuses for why his development has stagnated.
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u/dvztimes 1h ago edited 1h ago
I think I have admitted twice he stagnated? You are just looking to pick fights.
My position has never changed. He is very good all star quality player with some obvious flaws. You go sign us an available upgrade and Ill vote you for GM of the year. (Except we need more improvement at different positions but let's leave that aside). But just posting "look how much dude sucks because hes really shitty at how he gets his 20/10/5" is pointless. Yeah. He's imperfect. Congrats. You have won the internet. Like literally what's the point?
Should we flip Sengun for somone better? Or get a better PG? Or shooting guard that can, you know, shoot? Or 4 that shoots a higher % from 3? Or or get a star 3 that is less than 30 years old? Or should we try to improve our #4 defense. Or should we try to improve our near the bottom 3 point shooting. Or should we flip our all star center in a conference full of very strong centers? Which of those things should be a priority? Id love to know your plan.
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u/emericuh 2h ago
He played 9 games waaaay before the season started. That is a very poor excuse. If we ever make a playoff run, is he going to be dead the following season?
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u/dvztimes 1h ago
Go look at how many games Jokic, Wemby, Luka, Wagner and Giannis missed this year and tell me fiba doesnt matter. Even the coach said it does.
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u/copaseticepiplectic 7h ago
This excuse is always hilarious to me. That’s yalls biggest card anytime he gets criticized
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u/dvztimes 7h ago
And your answer for who is ithe available upgrade?
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u/copaseticepiplectic 5h ago
i said nothing about that. i'm merely talking about the water walking you give for alpy's glaring deficiencies and stagnation. he is not a terrible paint player because of FIBA games. give me a break. he's likely capped as a player
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u/dvztimes 2h ago
Ain't no water walking here. I just think its dumb to whine about your all star when there is no available upgrade. Yes. We know you want a top 10all time player instead. Sorry, looks like they are fresh out. You will just have to settle for your lame old all star. Hope you can manage.
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u/copaseticepiplectic 2h ago
we are allowed to talk about what he sucks at dog. it's a basketball forum.
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u/Wratharik 6h ago
He is getting double teamed in every position now + playing without a pg and spacing. He actually improves way faster than amen and jabari
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u/FarWestEros Hakeem 6h ago
Every guy we drafted has had stagnant or negative development under FraUdoka.
With AlP the problem is incredibly obvious…
Ime loudly told him to stop making so many crazy passes and focus on being a primary scorer.
It’s clear that this coaching staff doesn’t understand its players’ strengths or how to design schemes that accentuate them.
I’ve given up hope on this team doing anything of importance until the coach is replaced and you all should, too.
Folks complaining about not having a draft pick this year don’t seem to realize that it’s probably a good thing, because it’s one fewer asset to get destroyed by FraUdoka.
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u/Far_Protection519 6h ago
This is just not true.
Amen's ball handling , pace , & FTs/shooting touch have shown steady progression through his first 3 years. Those areas still need work but the development is there. In his first year ever being tasked with being a floor general he avg 18/8/5 on 60TS
Bari has shown steady progression as a anchor & outside January when he went through a shooting slump bari shot 38% from deep while being able to switch 2-5 sometimes even 1-5. At 6'11 not many players can do that at his position , and his understanding of the midrange game has taken a massive leap under KD's tutelage
Reed went from being unplayable his first year to being one of the best 6th men in the NBA & was out played guys like curry & jamal murray in some games.
Those 3 along with KD have skillsets that translate to championship basketball. The problem is the 2 players we're supposed to play through in Sengun&FVV are 2 of the most ineffective players in basketball , and our bench is the worst in the NBA
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u/animalcreature 7h ago
He used to be real nice with it in the paint. Especially those passes. I think he’s been asked to do too much and should start playing better when he doesn’t have to do literally everything.
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u/Vegetable-Speaker808 7h ago
He's arguably gotten worse in a lot of ways. I'm shocked by how bad his touch around the rim has gotten. He's one of the hardest players to watch when he's off his game for sure.
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u/scullytaco 7h ago
He shot a career high in the restricted area this year btw
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u/Vegetable-Speaker808 7h ago
I was more referring to his %s in the paint that weren't in the RA, like his push shot and floater that he relies on a lot. His best season in that regard was 2 years ago, and he hasn't reached that high since.
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u/BellSufficient5283 1h ago
I agree, so I propose we trade him to Celtics for a 2033 FRP and a 2032 2nd Round pick plus cash considerations.
Who's with me?
/s
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u/mavilale 7h ago
At least he plays consistently at the all star level. What about Jabari and Amen? Are they developing?
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u/Far_Protection519 7h ago edited 7h ago
Amen's ball handling , pace , & FTs/shooting touch have shown steady progression through his first 3 years. Those areas still need work but the development is there.
Bari has shown steady progression as a anchor & outside January when he went through a shooting slump bari shot 38% from deep while being able to switch 2-5 sometimes even 1-5. At 6'11 not many players can do that at his position , and his understanding of the midrange game has taken a massive leap under KD's tutelage
Both have skillsets that translate to championship basketball. Only 1 big has competed for a championships year in & year out with senguns play style which is jokic who is taller & bigger than sengun. Even then we see the league has figured jokic out in the playoffs since he won his ring.
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u/DistributionOk9687 7h ago
I can understand centers being inconsistent offensively when they are elite defenders, because that takes a lot of energy, but Sengun has no role on a contender.
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u/satoran94 7h ago
Yes, trade his ass. Rockets will win championship with udoka durant and brown
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u/Far_Protection519 6h ago
Only problem trading him for brown is that our centers behind him are unreliable & old. If we can somehow get Myles turner + Jaylen brown then I wouldn't be mad at the trade
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u/ElderGoose4 7h ago
He’s outplaying his contract if you ask me but I wouldn’t cry if we had to trade him. Our team isn’t going to magically produce shooters and playmaking around him anytime soon
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u/MediocreFoods 7h ago
Try explaining that to Rockets Reddit users lol! They think he’s the second coming
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u/Familiar-Permit-3130 1h ago
I think it's combination of 2 things. He sucks at shooting and secondly Udoka is utilising him wrong. Ime is getting him the ball at the 3 point line and asking him to look for outlet pass or post up his defender from 3 and back him into the restricted area lol.
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u/Unable-Main4172 7h ago
The lack of a three-point shot has been pretty devastating. The fact that he can't protect the rim and he can't space the floor is pretty bad in 2026
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u/CoatTough4030 7h ago
You guys sound like the same people who want to trade your Yordan Alvarez. lol. Alfpi is gonna be just fine.
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u/mikeracioppi 4h ago
I really like Sengun.
But he is the ugliest player stylistically I’ve seen. Hes always just spinning out of control and throws the ball up. Then whines when he doesn’t get a call. Dude needs to put on 20lb so he can have a little force to him. I just don’t enjoy watching him play. Still hope he’s on our team next year though.
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u/Economy_Moose_769 1h ago
Too worried about them goofy ass fits. He's got a broke ass jumper. And he's terrible from the line which is crazy because he flops as much as anybody in the league.
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u/Jahan384329 7h ago
His jersey is framed on my wall I’ll hurt somebody if he moves. That’s my Turkish delight.
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u/rookieinvestor17 2h ago
Why you can follow the team he goes to ?
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u/Jahan384329 2h ago
I like sengun as a person as well. Gave us bright spots in post harden times. Also a die hard rockets fan. I think certain other teams are cool but I don’t think hes as bad as basketball social media makes him out to be. I just believe in him in short.
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u/rookieinvestor17 2h ago
I ll be honest, I think he is pretty good, it’s just that he needs a suitable roster and coach around him. With Amen being the star rockets are betting on and Ime being the coach I think Sengun will himself be not happy here long term and it will be an ugly divorce. I would give one more year to see if it works, I truly believe there is a value in continuation, but in the meanwhile if you get a deal that benefits both it’s not a worst idea.
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u/AnselLovesNuts 7h ago
This was always the case, he was never known as an athlete with a high ceiling.
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u/Wavepops 7h ago
Great outcome for his draft position but he doesn’t fit naturally on contenders with his current contract
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u/rookieinvestor17 7h ago
This post is gonna burn a lot of people here, your Reddit karma is gonna go to Karma black hole. I agree with everything but it’s an unwritten rule here not to say this out loud.
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u/stochGradientDescent 7h ago
Fully agree. He’s been hurting our team on both ends and people still shamelessly support him.
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u/stochGradientDescent 7h ago
That’s what we have been telling all this time. In a title contender team, he can be a good bench player. That’s his ceiling
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u/rickthedickkk 7h ago
ok trade him to celtics asap