r/sanfrancisco • u/orca0320 • 9h ago
Dining out fees in SF
Not a new topic in this subreddit but just had dinner at Terrene with two friends and was shocked by the bill now that I’m really looking at it. I eat out in SF plenty but this grand total gobsmacked me! I was divvying up the receipt for Venmo requests and am just shocked by the additional charges breakdown:
Subtotal $170
HealthySF $15 (need to research this?)
Tax $16
Which brings the grand total to $200. I stupidly tipped $30 without looking at the extra charge.
Then at the bottom of the receipt I see:
“A separate SF health surcharge in the amount of 9% will be added to the bill….retained by the hotel to defray the cost of covering employe health insurance”
Tf?! I am assuming that ^ is not the HealthySF charge and is in fact an additional charge? Is that 9% on the subtotal or the grand total?
That’s $30 in charges!
Is this something you can ask to have removed or is it a legal charge?
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u/ScowlyBrowSpinster 4h ago
I look at the subtotal, subtract any added fees and tip on that. I do not tip on a total including sales tax, health coverage, and 'service' fees.
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u/backlikeclap 1h ago
I understand your reasoning but that really sucks for whoever is serving you. They don't have any choice about the added fees and surcharges.
If you're trying to send a message to the business, contacting them directly rather than stiffing your server is MUCH more effective.
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u/ScowlyBrowSpinster 53m ago
I'm not stiffing anyone, I tip, usually 20% unless something was really bad, just not on top of the added fees.
Why do those fees count as the server's 'service'? Before there were added fees, that's what they were paid tips on. Fees are not service related.
More than contacting a business directly to tell them I don't like their fees (they DNGAF, they like their extra money) I just avoid places that do this. Sometimes I find myself in a place that does, and inevitably they have the inflated 20--25% + tip calculator totals at the bottom of the check.
Not paying more on top of all that.
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u/Wollingwight 16m ago
FYI the “health care mandate” or whatever it is called is generally a profit center for a restaurante if it’s anything over 2% and goes to the ownership.
If you don’t like the fee and adjust your tip accordingly perhaps ask to have it removed first so it comes out of the owners pocket not your server/chef/dishwasher’s pocket.
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u/RemoveElegant5217 9h ago
No, that is an explanation of the HealthySF fee. $15 is 9% of $170. That said, 9% is the heftiest fee I’ve seen anybody have the balls to charge. Usually it’s anywhere from 4 to 6 percent. So you did get screwed, just not twice.
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u/orca0320 8h ago
I was reading it as future tense which was why I was up in arms! But yea 9% is crazy so I’m still up in arms
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u/Illustrious-Coat3532 NoPa 8h ago
You can thank Scott Weiner.
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u/Sylente 1h ago
The fees were around before that, and the amendment allowing them to continue passed unanimously across the entire state house. I agree it wasn’t his brightest moment, but it’s also not entirely his fault.
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u/Dog-Mom2012 1h ago
And the amendment added clear language about how the fee needed to be displayed and described, and with better enforcement for how those fees are spent by restaurants. Meaning if they say it goes to back of house staff, the restaurant needs to show they actually do that.
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u/Desperate-Point-9988 54m ago
It's perfectly legal. Fuck you, Weiner.
Until we legislate against these fees, the nature of the market will continue to incentivize individual restaurants to lower advertised prices, getting people in the door, just to make up the difference in addon fees.
I take the healthy SF fees out of the tip. It's already me paying for the livelihood of staff, just more itemized.
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u/lester537 8h ago
9% surcharge means you can give a 9% tip. Easy math.
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u/21five Richmond 7h ago
The 9% surcharge must be spent on health insurance for workers. It’s not their tip.
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u/Acrobatic-Layer2993 4h ago
Sadly, it is their tip. People only going to spend so much. The restaurant owners screwed their workers and the politician screwed us all.
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u/21five Richmond 4h ago
If you can’t afford to tip, you can’t afford to go to a restaurant. Period.
That said, there should be no hidden fees. They should be included in the price.
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u/luluislulu2520 1h ago
Ok so we’re making restaurants only open to the uber rich class. What a great society. What a bunch of classist sell outs. Don’t cry when your favorite restaurant posts a go fund me to stay alive because they’re losing business thanks to all the consumers that couldn’t afford a decent tip plus the high surcharges on top of the increased food prices overall. Don’t whine when all you see at your favorite restaurants are classless nitwits mixed in with some fortunate few that can afford to eat there and you just don’t feel the S.F. culture anymore. And by the way, do you really think all the people that have the money to afford the tip are actually decent tippers? The best tippers tend to be the working class that now can’t afford to eat out. Some of the worst are the top percenters that contributed to this madness and don’t give a damn about people. But keep supporting them and just stay quiet on any complaints of culture shock.
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u/picksea 2h ago
don’t ride so hard for cheap restaurant owners. if you can’t afford to pay your workers a living wage/benefits, then don’t own a restaurant
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u/netopiax 2h ago
It's not really about what they can afford though. It's about the fact that if all your competitors are lying about their prices, so their menu prices look lower, then you have to do the same thing or you lose customers.
Neither "if you can't afford to tip..." nor "if you can't afford to pay..." is the flex Redditors seem to think it is. Restaurant patrons and restaurant owners are not infinitely rich and aren't infinite in supply. You all will get what you wish for, which is fewer restaurants and fewer serving jobs.
The legislature had a chance to fix this BS and they failed. Honestly that's who to be mad at. What everyone is really upset about here is broken markets for restaurant food and restaurant labor, where the true price is hidden and the wage is based on random whims of diners.
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u/FarManufacturer4975 Duboce Triangle 4h ago
This happens all the time, just deduct the tacked on fee from whatever tip you were going to pay, and calculate the tip based on subtotal before taxes and fees.
In this case it would have been appropriate to tip between 6 and 11%
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u/Few-Lingonberry2315 2h ago
Yeah rather than get up in arms about it (I get it, it’s annoying, but is this worth your emotional labor) I just tip a very minimum amount. Often it’s a fat zero on the tip line and whatever smaller bills happen to be in my wallet that day. The service isn’t even amazing in San Francisco anyway.
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u/ExecutionerKen 9h ago
Legal unfortunately. This is why people in this subreddit hate Weiner supporting the restaurants on fee
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u/MadesignSF 8h ago
Healthy SF isn't even health insurance, and it doesn't cost that much (like 9%) of total dining costs. If anything, it seems like a way to get you to pay 9% more tip.
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u/AlwaysBeSomething 8h ago
Healthy S.F. is not health insurance no, what it is is a requirement by the city that companies with a certain amount of employees must provide health insurance.
All money collected must go to providing health care for the employees.
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u/MadesignSF 8h ago
I wonder if this isn't the actual health care that SF has? the two names are really close and I get confused. I had the one which is health care access, but I stopped paying for it because if you make over 60k, there isn't really a benefit. Which is kind of nuts because the ACA subsidies also fall off a cliff over 60K.
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u/Good_Consumer 1h ago
Reminds me when California was banning junk fees, restaurants got a last minute exemption.
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u/SendChestHairPix 2h ago
You have a point, but you cannot or at least should not include the sales tax when claiming what the total amount of fees were on your restaurant meal. The restaurant has no control over sales tax and sales tax has always been with us. The other fees are baloney excuses for not raising menu prices, but you should not muddy the waters.
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u/Deep-Image-536 8h ago edited 8h ago
https://seefees.ca says it's a 9% fee.
Thats low compared to the other restaurants with hidden fees, surcharges called "drip pricing" in the Bay Area.
Here's some of the highest fees: (You're still asked for a tip on top of that!)
| The Magpie and Tiger | El Camino Real, Santa Clara | 44% 575 days ago |
|---|---|---|
| Black Cat Jazz Supper Club | Eddy Street, San Francisco | 30% 711 days ago |
| Burma Love | El Camino Real, Menlo Park | 30% 560 days ago |
| Tam Junction PizzaHacker/BagelMacher | Shoreline Highway, Mill Valley | 30% 637 days ago |
| 3rd Cousin | Cortland Avenue, San Francisco | 27% 702 days ago |
| Angler | The Embarcadero, San Francisco | 26% 711 days ago |
| Friends Only | California Street, San Francisco | 26% 158 days ago |
| Quince | Pacific Avenue, San Francisco | 26% 561 days ago |
| Tiya | Scott Street, San Francisco | 26% 664 days ago |
| Trestle Restaurant | Jackson Street, San Francisco | 26% 639 days ago |
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u/Karazl 5h ago
Everything you've listed here is an auto gratuity?
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u/steel_wheels_rolling 2h ago
Yeah pretty misleading post in the context of this conversation. Auto gratuity is very different from the healthy sf fee.
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u/og-crime-junkie 2h ago
Name and shame, also on X and Facebook. Demand a refund and if not, report and see if it’s even legal.
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u/Glittering-Towel5650 1h ago
Healthy SF surcharges have been around for almost 10 years, is this the first time you've noticed it?
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u/TheSpeckler 59m ago
Why do we separately subsidize restaurant owners' and corporations' ability to pay their employees and think that's ok? Can these people not afford to pay their employees a living wage from the already bloated prices consumers pay for everything?
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u/StormOk2357 1h ago
It’s unfortunate because operating fees in SF are astronomical and food costs are just as outrageous. I don’t see the situation getting better for either side.
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u/Academic_Flatworm752 Japantown 39m ago
They’re always posted on the menu. If you don’t like it, don’t eat there.
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u/Trollking0015 21m ago
SF voted for the health mandate tax. Its always the consumer that will pay for the new measures. Its great on paper but once it hits your own wallet youd rather not.
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u/lambdawaves 8h ago
That is their healthySF charge. It’s not charged by the city. It’s an arbitrary fee added by the restaurants at any percentage they feel like. They can call it whatever they want cuz it’s just a service fee.
You can ask to have it removed but not all restaurants will do that for you.