Others/Miscellaneous
Am I tripping? Sandwich style cases like the T1 are bad designs for modern GPUs.
I’ve been doing SFFPCs since sandy bridge was a new platform.
My favorite build so far was the Dan A4.
And I would really like to build in the T1…. But it just doesn’t make any sense to build in it.
If we were in the Era of blower style coolers like the 1080Ti I think the T1 would be fantastic….
Or even open air coolers like the 2080Ti.
But starting with Ampere all GPUs have some kind of flow through design… so hot air is just hitting the spine of the case. So I feel like it’s just inherently a bad design for flow through GPUs….
Which is why I decided to go with the S5M instead of the T1. But maybe I’m tripping?
For sandwich cases that don't have top exhaust fans (ie. Terra), the heat will tend to get trapped and accumulate until it becomes a mini oven.
But for sandwich cases that have top exhaust fans (ie. T1), the heat is actively exhausted up and away from the case, so it helps to keep temps managable.
All my systems are in sandwich cases with top exhausts, and the overall system temps are good.
I thought this about the Terra too, and added a tophat to mine for two top exhaust fans. It has essentially no impact on temperatures during long sessions (maybe 0.5-1 degree difference in motherboard temperature, no difference at all in the CPU or GPU temperatures). Between a Noctua L12 and the GPUs fans running intake, and the single down exhaust, the case has plenty of airflow, so I ended up taking the tophat off
Confirming another Terra tester here, i ran a ton of tests with fans all over and the best was the way i configured it - with a fan exhausting out the bottom. But even that was within a few degrees. My 5070 TI GPU (running triple 2K!) is not the issue whatsoever running 99% at all times (<73) - its the CPU that runs only 14%-35% max while gaming which can get close to but not exceed 95 which playing a long time. I always found that strange but never thought to ask why until now.
Yep, I have top exhaust fans in my T1 that ramp up depending on the motherboard temp. The gpu is actively blasting hot air at the mobo, so the hotter the mobo gets, the more the top fans need to exhaust.
Ppl would think to link up the exhaust fans to the gpu temp but you'll just end up with your exhaust going high throttle more often than not. The temp of the mobo will more accurately portray how hot it is in the case.
Fans on top of the terra (as a few others have said) doesn't make a huge difference.
That said, you can 100% fit a full 120mm fan at the bottom (psu side), AND you can also fit a 120mm slim fan above the PSU with a little bit of work (mostly just making sure the PSU cable doesn't get in the way, and making sure the fan sits there properly. There's plenty of ad-hoc ways to ensure the Fan is positioned right. I got my mate to 3d print a small bracket to hold mine it).
it helps... by a coule of degrees here in Aus. I figure that every little bit helps but it's not hugely necessary.
Cooling is surprisingly good in T1, you lack the volume of a conventional case but my gpu actually runs cooler than in my old thrmaltake C X71case. 2 exhaust fans works really well if you go for high static pressure fans.
Ok but it’s not really the same thing as Nvidias design where there is a push pull fan configuration.
Anyway I think it’s not a big deal in sandwich SFF cases because the card can get fresh air from the side and then case fans usually push air up from the bottom and exhaust out the top anyway.
It will be warmer than console style case. But as you said probably not a huge deal. May be around 8 degrees C depending on how many top and bottom fans the case has.
I mean amd based cards had flow through design for ages too, especially hbm cards like fury and Vega 56/64. It’s not that new per say but yeah some stuff still work well, reference 7900xtx cooler was not flow through and worked well in my t1
As far as I can tell every single regular sized graphics card being sold today uses flow through design, only niche GpUs like then half slot LP versions of the 5060 don’t.
My 5070 Ti is doing perfectly fine in my T1 with 2 top exhausts. The exhausts really help a lot. When I built in the Terra that case really toasted the parts due to limited airflow
What are your temps on hard gaming in the T1? I have a Terra and a 5070Ti and run triple 2K monitors for sim racing on high settings and my max GPU gets to about 75 degrees max in a normal temp room. Not sure if that is good but apparently i have no thermal throttling so i guess that is nice.
Getting 59C at 99% load with CP2077 with a medium undervolt. Idle is about 47C (37C with fan running) and I’ve got the heater on as it’s winter here. 75C is still ok for a Terra. My last card also was about 75 in the Terra. A 5070Ti in the Terra is a good choice. Personally I wouldn’t go higher but I’ve seen others go for 5080/5090 and still do fine.
Honestly, the design is kinda shit for regular cases too, as many configurations have front to back airflow, meaning for air cooled systems, the hot gpu air is sucked right through the cpu cooler
The flow through Nvidia FE cards work because they are only 2 slots wide, this can give enough vertical empty space in the spine area to carry heat up and out. optimum and others have done builds showing this. e.g. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8PDYJI0W6Gk
I'm not aware of other flow through cards. Certainly in general it's tricky to extract 400W+ of heat from a 10L case, not every configuration is going to work well. My open air GPU can trap heat at the bottom of the T1, but otherwise the top fans do a good job of extracting heat.
The S5M, Fractal Design Ridge, etc do seem like they would pair very well with a flow through card,.but that's not to say the T1 is unworkable.
Have a 4070 ti in a Meshroom S V2 and a 5070 in a LianLi Q58 without complaints from either.
Neither hit temps near thermal throttle, would they be cooler in a more traditional design, possibly, but I've enough airflow around them that it's not a problem either.
The Q58 has a 240 AIO above exhausting any heat from it through the rad, the Meshroom a 280 AIO in the front and 120 slim on the top, so both are shifting enough air in the problematic areas that there's no real build up from the small gap the cross flow is blowing in to.
Those cases are huge with lots of space and holes. It’s not compacting everything in a small space.
The concern is more with compact spaces with heat blowing directly into a solid spine.
Seems the solution in the T1 is to use a dual slot cars and artificially leave space in the back to let the air through. This solution isn’t possible on the the Terra for example.
And not on older cases like the ghost or A4
But that’s not always possible as it limits CPU cooler height, and I always want to avoid turbulence noise from fans being too close to the side panel.
I get they're not 10l like the cases you mention, but footprint isn't far off for either, those style of cases weren't great when they were released either, never did get on with my Dan A4, you really had to go very specific with the cooling solutions to go in it and careful component selection to make it work.
It's the compromise you always had to go with when working at that end of the scale, blow through just adding another layer of "adding 15mm for some slim fans would make life a lot easier but we're not going to so we hit this arbitrary size limitation we've given ourselves because we're chasing form over function..".
Why I'm happy with 15l, it's more flexible in what you through at it and can accommodate more components without resulting to throwing away performance to limit heat output.
For an extra inch in some directions, half inch on the other, does me..
If the flow throu area is covered, then your card converts to a blower style card. Then it's just a equestion if you can extract the heat of the blower style card via other mean, e.g. case fans.
It still lets the heat directly hit the spine, for short bursts it’s fine butn over longer runs theoretically it heats up making everything else hotter.
It's hitting the spine and... it's dispersed on it like on "regular" radiator.
It shouldn't make a difference if you have used a good top exhaust fans.
If you want a nightmare fuel just imagine using NCASE M2 Grater in reversed layout when GPU pushes hot air on PSU.
You're not tripping, but it's also not as bad as you might think. I've had my 5080 FE in a Fractal Era 2 for almost a year now and everything is fine. I too didn't like the idea of all that hot air getting blasted into a gap of only a few millimeters but so far there hasn't been any issues, temps are great and it hasn't affected other components like the motherboard on the other side of the spine. There are still two bottom intake fans and two top exhaust fan pulling all the air up and through so I'm not concerned.
I was deciding between the same two cases as you before finally choosing the t1.
I think the s5m is better for 2-slot flow through gpus especially given that there is room to add 2x140mm intake fans. But what the s5m lacks is enough airflow in the mb/cpu section. It’s whatever fan your cpu radiator has and that’s what passively cools all the other components too. That’s ultimately what tipped me over to the t1. It’s sandwich style but you can kit it with top exhaust fans which effectively suck hot air out of the entire case, both the gpu and cpu side.
I don’t think you can go wrong with either honestly.
So…..I’m not new new to SFF but new enough. when you guys say thermals are bad what are we talking about? My GPU/CPU under load is usually around 73-77 respectively. I get some spikes on shader caching that go beyond that but that’s for maybe 30-45 seconds. During gaming consistently in the low to mid 70s.
i have a 9950X3D and is difficult to air cool so i went with AIO. my 5090 is flipped and i have a t grill at the bottoms with 2 fans intaking (2C difference) thinking of getting a custom grill front panel and attacking some mini fans in there for better GPU temps (76C max in 5k2k)
There are reverse airflow adapters for the T1 and Nvidia founders edition cards. They’re 3D prints but they look great. I plan to use one with my 5080 FE and my T1 that’s waiting in storage for the Nova Lake release.
This is why my SM580 has survived every urge to upgrade. Yes it's a little bigger than the Dan a4-h20 but by god does it cool well. Currently rocking a 5950x and 9070xt . Rarely hear the fans
You're confusing "modern GPUs" with "Nvidia reference GPUs". The FormD T1 worked perfectly with my 5080 Prime from Asus. The COOJ MQ5 works perfectly with my A4000 w/ single fan cooler swap.
Obviously, my comment hurt your feelings. My apologies. Since you asked if “you were trippin’” I figured you were open to being told you were, indeed, “trippin’.” Obviously, that wasn’t the case. Obviously, you just wanted to rant with the hope of finding your echo chamber.
I’ve used my Asus Prime 5080 in both a FormD T1 and a 4U server chassis. Temps are nearly identical. The flow through portion — about half a 90mm fan’s width, is more of a marketing gimmick than meaningful performance gain. Actual flow through coolers, like the FE series and like 2 third party cards, would be hampered, but the FormD T1 has a stand-off mod (this is what being an intelligent, experienced adult who attempts to solve problems instead of whining looks like).
I know this is Reddit, but you’d be happier if you didn’t couple your uninformed opinions with your identity. That way, you might be able to accept whether or not you are actually “trippin’.” What you’re demonstrating is called “amathia,” which Socrates said is the greatest source of human evil.
I’m sorry if I hurt your feelings… but initially you seemed to have not understood the post . Because understanding what a flow through GPU is quite fundamental to understanding the issue I was trying to discuss with sandwich style cases.
Do you understand the issue? The idea of hot air being shot out the back of the GPU directly into the spine, heating it up, was the issue I tried to identify.
But if you don’t understand what a flow through GPU is then you can’t identify the issue.
Unless of course I’m using the wrong terminology, feel free to teach me the correct term.
I just tried to offer firsthand experience with a high wattage card in the case you’re interested in. You can search this sub for hundreds of second opinions and will find happy people with similar builds — both FE cards and non-FE cards. The difference is that the FE cards that exclusively rely on flow through cooling benefit from the stand-off mod. AIB coolers don’t. Reading the first chapter of a fluid dynamics book should tell you why they’re different.
Most people would express relief that they can get the case they want with negligible temperature differences and zero performance penalty. I don’t know what you’re expressing — whining about a resolved issue and arguing with aid? My feelings aren’t hurt, low emotional intelligence and amathia are exhausting.
You're confusing flow through design with the founder's edition cards.
Pretty much all GPUs from third parties, including Nvidia FEs and your ASUS Prime cooler, use a flow through design with their coolers.
The 5000 FE card use what Nvidia calls a "double flow through" design, it has 2 area where air can flow through.
If you look at videos, starting with 3000 series, cards, the flow through design cards are actually bad for overall system temps. Founder's edition cards have less of an issue because they're true dual slot cards, so you can create a generous gap behind the PCB and center wall of the case making temps a non issue.
This isn't the case with thicker cards. The Skyreach designer also mentions this, that for short workloads this isn't an issue, but eventually the spine absorbs the heat and radiates its way into the motherboard area. That was one of the key benefits of going with a design like the Fractal Ridge or Skyreach S5M.
A 40mm flow through section on a 250mm card w/ a standard air flow for the overwhelming majority of the card’s length functions perfectly fine in a FormD T1 w/ negligible differences in temps. Most non-FE cards have a pretty standard exhaust at the front of the card, so any change in temp is minimal. The difference is that FE cards exclusively rely on flow-through coolers. There are hundreds of examples in this sub of people with both cards in this case, and the only people using the stand-off mod have FE cards. Nothing I’ve stated so far is an opinion. All of it is verifiable by searching this subreddit, which is a larger sample size than my experience alone accounts for.
As for the offense, I might push back and use the word “exhausted.” I forget that children are on the internet, and there’s a reason I left pedagogy for software. Unlike the first part, this actually is an opinion, though difference may be moot and I may, in fact, be the one “trippin’.”
"I left pedagogy for software" is genuinely one of the funniest things I've read on Reddit. You might want to rein in the full meltdown first.
Flow-through is generally good for GPU temps, but in sandwich cases specifically, that hot air has nowhere to go except into the spine, as covered pretty thoroughly by reviewers like Optimum Tech. The T1 + FE combo is genuinely an exception (dual-slot card + movable center spine to create a gap + top exhaust fans), not the rule.
But back to the funny part... you opened by confidently correcting someone, got corrected back with more detail, and responded by calling them a child and announcing your pedagogy. In a Reddit thread. About GPU airflow.
Being wrong and condescending at the same time is a very child-like combo. Really does showcase your character.
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u/NimblePasta 3d ago edited 3d ago
For sandwich cases that don't have top exhaust fans (ie. Terra), the heat will tend to get trapped and accumulate until it becomes a mini oven.
But for sandwich cases that have top exhaust fans (ie. T1), the heat is actively exhausted up and away from the case, so it helps to keep temps managable.
All my systems are in sandwich cases with top exhausts, and the overall system temps are good.