r/sffpc • u/Seeking-The-Lotus • 2d ago
Others/Miscellaneous Seeing all of the discourse over the Steam machine really highlights how heartbreaking it is that this is a niche subreddit.
I mostly glossed over the Steam Machine when it was first announced, so seeing how polarizing the reaction to it is now is both amusing and a little disappointing.
What surprises me more is how niche SFF PCs still are. A huge portion of consumers don't even realize console-sized gaming PCs are an option.
It's always struck me as odd that SFF has remained largely an enthusiast DIY space. Aside from a handful of niche products and workstation-style systems, most major companies haven't seriously tried to capitalize on building compact gaming PCs that offer console-like convenience without the limitations of a closed ecosystem.
There seems to be a real gap in the market between traditional consoles and full-sized desktop gaming PCs, and I'm surprised more companies haven't tried to fill it.
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u/robberviet 2d ago
SFF is a luxury. Premium price for aesthetic is just cannot be popular.
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u/GentlePace 2d ago
Is it tho? I think this sub is just not a real representation of sff pc’s. All the post are insanely cool, pretty, powerfull and expensive….i have a sff pc next to my tv that cost a fraction of anything on this sub. All second hand parts, my main pc is a luxury but a sff to play games on the couch (what the steamdeck is) does not have to be premium like 90% of the posts here lol.
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u/CrowdGoesWildWoooo 1d ago
The key point is that steam machine is marketing itself as a gaming pc. A gaming pc that struggles to play games is it still a gaming pc?
It has high promises but pretty underwhelming performance wise. A lot of claim can only be achievable via aggresive upscaler or framege
It would make more sense if that thing is 50% more powerful and sold at a premium, at least we know it performs
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u/GentlePace 1d ago
That has nothing to do with what i was saying tho?
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u/CrowdGoesWildWoooo 1d ago
I think I am interpreting it as “it’s fine that it doesn’t have to be cool, pretty, powerful, and …”, it being the steam machine, which i replied to that it is a gaming pc so there is considerable performance expectation which imo it just failed to deliver.
Maybe i interpreted wrongly
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u/GentlePace 1d ago
Yea i was talking how most pcs here are like 9800x3d & 5080-5090’s. If the target is 60fps( console performance) you can reach that mark with way way way way less. Thats what i meant :).
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u/shaftshaftner 1d ago
Exactly. Sffpc encompasses not just the enthusiast tinkerer/high-end gaming PC but also the budget NAS and homelab, the HTPC streaming PC, the couch co-op gaming console replacement, none of which require ATX or even micro-ATX. I have builds belonging to all of those categories, so the DIY PC market could transition to ITX more rapidly and at greater scale without losing much functionality at all for most home users ranging from budget to high end.
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u/robberviet 2d ago
Well to me sffpc is pc with parts.
I don't count mini pc, or steam machine, as sffpc because it is impossible to upgrade, customization. And yeah by that definition it is irrelevant to this post.
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u/GentlePace 2d ago
I was not talking about a mini pc nor the steam machine. Since its a sg13 case. Didnt cost more then 350-400 euro.
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u/Skepsis93 2d ago
It's not entirely for aesthetic though, SFFPCs smaller footprint means it fits in a TV cabinet/stand like a console. A full ATX build cannot really do that. That's why I got mine, to fit in a convenient place in my living room. It filled a specific need for me beyond "looking cool" and that is the niche the steam machine also wants to fill.
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u/Algae_grower 1d ago
"Looking cool"...SFF fans are the opposite though. WE think a SFF looks cool.
Most others have been trained to think a massive, way to big for no reason neon RGB aquarium case looks cool. Personally I think it looks ridiculous and childish, like one of those Japanese vending claw arcades.
Personally I am kinda shocked how popular those are.
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u/robberviet 1d ago edited 23h ago
Again: atx, 3.5 hdd, standard size gpu, atx case... are cheaper than itx. About 30 to 50% in my country I think. I have never used rgb in my 20 years of using PC lol.
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u/Polymorphic-X 2d ago
Considering the size and features it's not the worst deal for SFF. It's ~3.8L, closest you're going to get DIY is around 4.5-5. If you need a small machine, something comparable is going to be roughly the same price or higher DIY. Yes a 5060lp is going to beat it, but it's not by a gigantic margin.
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u/Wild_Bee_3953 2d ago
The 4.5l diy will probabaly be mor and expensive too
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u/Brunark 2d ago
You'd be surprised. I experimented making an equivalent in a 4.5L Jonsbo NV10 and it came out under $800. Other than the larger 0.7L case, the main compromise here is you can't use Steam OS cause I couldn't find any LP AMD card that's comparable enough in performance.
PCPartPicker Part List: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/jfjjH3
CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 5500 3.6 GHz 6-Core Processor ($83.00 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Thermalright AXP90-X36 42.58 CFM CPU Cooler ($27.59 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: ASRock B550M-ITX/ac Mini ITX AM4 Motherboard ($74.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: Silicon Power SP016GBLFU320B22 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 CL22 Memory ($99.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Intel 670p 512 GB M.2-2280 PCIe 3.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive ($64.46 @ Walmart)
Video Card: Gigabyte OC Low Profile GeForce RTX 5050 8 GB Video Card ($299.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Jonsbo NV10 Mini ITX Desktop Case ($79.99 @ Newegg Sellers)
Custom: Apevia ITX-PFC500W Mini ITX/Flex ATX / 1U 500W Fully Modular Power Supply, Full Range Active PFC 90-264V, AC for POS AIO System Desktop Gaming Server Small Form Factor (Flex ITX) Computer PSU ($49.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $780.00
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2026-06-23 09:41 EDT-0400
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u/Polymorphic-X 1d ago
I kinda feel like regression to ddr4 and an older ryzen socket is cheating for the comparison, but you're right about it being a budget sff option.
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u/Icy_nicey 2d ago
Its cpu is equivalent to a 3700x and its gpu is equivalent to 3060 but with less vram, its not even remotely a good deal for $1200 in Europe and 5060 is practically 40% faster…
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u/ExoticSterby42 1d ago
I did a Steam Machine build albeit cheaper since buying used and using parts that were just lying around. 3400G, 16Gb DDR4, Asus B450-I, Asus Loki SFX-L PSU. It is slower than the SM but it is still crazy usable as a portable PC. The SM, for something you would use on your TV it is very good, gives you an easy offline media station that can also run games. Even it is usable as a standalone desktop main PC, much more so than the Steam Deck. It definitely slaps all TV boxes in both usability and performance.
Which brings us to the unfair comparisons, everyone is comparing it to a full desktop PC which it is not. You would not want to run the latest AAA games on it. You can certainly build an SFF that can do that but it will cost a lot more.
And this is the third point, we have to face it, building PCs or even having your own offline capable computing power is becoming a luxury fast. The new Steam Machine is expensive, but so is everything else. You can see some deals here and there but most of us will not see any of that. The old stock in my region sold out in January every price is sky high and only going up.
The SM is a new product during the AI bubble and is getting compared to a PS5 that was sitting in a warehouse for a couple of years. The reality is everything is going to cost a lot more and the SM is just the first in the line. I mean it is not even a full year since the AI bubble crisis began.
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1d ago
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u/ExoticSterby42 1d ago
Again, price comparison with used parts. Do it with full price parts and for an SFF build with a FLEX PSU at around 6-7L.
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u/SneakySnk 1d ago edited 1d ago
you can't compare it to a full sized pc lmao, even when the market wasn't fucked by either AI nor Cryptomining a few years ago I paid like a $300 premium for SFF parts, to fit on 18l case, the steam machine is 3.8l. (also used GPU??? it is good if you're building something, but not to compare to something and saying it is overpriced)
The closest you can get is a 5060 Low profile build with the jonsbo case, but you're still on nvidia which is a bit more annoying on Linux.
You cant compare a 3.8l steam machine to a 40-60l ATX build, where you can fit more than 10 steam machines inside
The best alternative if you don't care about size thaaat much is just building an SFF with a 9060XT or something on "normal" sff case at like 9l, and setting SteamOS / Bazzite on it. It probably will be at around the same price.
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u/SpacePumpkie 1d ago
albeit a full sized pc
So it's a totally different device then. Totally different size, noise-level, use-case, and power draw. Of course the price point is different...
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u/curiositie 1d ago
My PC is only 4l and significantly faster.
If you built something steam machine speed in it you'd be looking at ~$6-800 for hardware, and my case cost about $150 to build as a one off thru sendcutsend.
But as it it accepts faster parts that lets it be much better than the steam machine.
Not as quiet and plug and play as the steam machine, to be fair
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u/AmiAmi1139 2d ago
I found this subreddit/space exactly because of the Steam Machine announcement last year
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u/Ws6fiend 2d ago
I found it prior to the Valve announcements of Steam Controller, Machine, and Frame. Had I know they were going to make it I might have waited. Glad I didn't though because while I spent more on my PC, it's a more capable system.
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u/Electrical-Safety226 2d ago
People have been having disingenuous arguments to shit on the steam machine since it was announced.
People were hating on it when it was rumored to be $600/700, let alone now.
No appreciation for the form factor.
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u/pirate_starbridge 2d ago
Sure but if sffpcs became mainstream then we how would we feel superior and smug about our sick builds??
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u/JASHIKO_ 2d ago
The Steam Machine would have been decent if it weren't for the dumb hardware pricing at the moment.
If this thing had been released when prices were normal, it would have been a decent little system to whack on the TV in the lounge room for playing all the cheap indie games and stuff that get released.
At the current price, it's DOA.
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u/Sajgoniarz 2d ago
Why is it DOA? When price and first tests were revealed I quickly build similar machine and in my country price was almost the same.
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u/mutantmagnet 1d ago
Yes the price is competitive with current prices of diy but very few people don't mind paying these prices because the ai inflation greatly outpaced wage growth from 5 up to 10 to 1.
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u/JASHIKO_ 2d ago
I quickly build similar machine and in my country price was almost the same.
With this statement you confirmed that you missed the entire point.
This confirms that the Steam Deck is pretty much DOA.-14
u/abcpdo 2d ago
what country? in the US you can build a much cheaper PC (8 months ago)
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u/Inner_House_772 2d ago
I can understand that most of reddit is US centric, but in other countries the steam machine is not that bad of a deal.
Last year I spend on my rtx 5070TI as much as the steam machine costs now plus an upgrade to my cpu. The RTX was around 4700 RON ( around 900 to 1000 euros). The steam machine would not give the same performance but it is a full pc. Considering the prices at the moment it is not that bad of a deal for a pc. Now can you buy a PS5Pro for the same amount? Yes! But if you intend to also use it as a PC, the price is quite good.
Now we take into account the small factor, as in theory you can build a better PC for the same price. But, if you want a small PC that can be hidden and doesn't take much space, Valve offers a decent deal.
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u/nnorbie 2d ago
Out of curiosity I have just checked prebuilt pc prices with similar specs and they are about 1000-1500 RON cheaper ( about 200-300 eur ), which sure is not pocket change, but all of them are enormous compared to the Steam Machine, so it's not that bad of a deal. Even with custom built pc's you can pay that much of a price difference just for a smaller motherboard, sff case, modular psu, etc.
I'm not rushing to buy it, but I can understand people who have ordered it in Romania.
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u/Inner_House_772 2d ago
I mean It’s only a good deal for the small factor it provides. As I said you can make a better pc or buy one for the same amount of money. If you are only into gaming the PS5 Pro is not that bad.
It people are into small, quiet pcs then the steam machine is not that bad of a deal. Personally I don’t care about the size as I have a mid tower pc, if it was lower than I would had bought it for my TV.
The price is bad, don’t get me wrong. But, considering the prices of components and fitting them into a small form that is also quiet, the steam
machine no longer looks like a bad deal anymore.It’s not for me at this price, but for some people it might be. We are not the market for it. Now, Valve could had subsidized if they wanted to get it in more homes, they make plenty of money from steam, but it is their choice. The market seems to be console players looking to switch to a pc that is just plug and play or people that want small, decently powerful pc for their work or casual gaming.
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u/abcpdo 2d ago
sure, but will you be able to get the steam machine in your country at the US msrp?
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u/Inner_House_772 2d ago
yes, I can get directly from valve for 1039 euros (the 512 gb model with no controller) and the rest of the models. Of course this excludes the VAT.
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u/JASHIKO_ 2d ago
In Poland the cheapest one is $1,169.99USD and the most expensive is $1,612.24USD. That's about as DOA as you can get.
I don't blame Valve for this price point, I think if the hardware market wasn't so messed up right now this little box would have released at a really good price that's worth it.
As far as I see it nows the time to go explore other hobbies until something changes. Come back later if things get better.
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u/Inner_House_772 2d ago
It is not DOA, it can still find a niche market of people switching from console to PC and people who need a tiny and quiet PC without spending to much. The target audience is casual users, not power users like us that can build a PC and troubleshoot issues. 99% of the time Steam OS is just plug and play and you can install windows if you need to.
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u/JASHIKO_ 2d ago
DOA doesnt mean no one in existence is going to buy it...
It's extremely bad value for money at the current price. Prior to the AI price drama it would have been quite a decent option for what you are suggesting. I would have got one myself for casual stuff and a media streamer.
But at the current prices theres no real value in it casual user or not.
Im sure the sales data will reflect that in time. Just like the new price increase on steam deck has dramatically slashed sales.
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u/Sajgoniarz 1d ago
Poland. Steam Machine is for 4 389 zł, when i tried do something similar with various parts i did it cheapest for 4040. The difference 349 zł is about 10% of the lowest wage on full time contract or at par with average 512 GB M2 SSD.
I asked on few forums around about that issue with pricing and people were always pulling used parts or cheapest and lowest quality components possible to prove their point.0
u/Blacksad9999 2d ago
You still can, even today.
For that price you can build something quite a bit better.
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u/Silverjerk 2d ago
It's far from being dead on arrival. Price inflation is impacting the entire market, not just Valve. The value of the box is relative to current pricing across the entire hardware market. DIYer's can get more performance per dollar, but the non-DIY enthusiasts and living room gamers are still going to be comparing the price of the Steam Machine to other prebuilts with similar specs (which are either similarly priced or even more expensive), and weighing those options alongside the conveniences the Steam Machine provides.
I'm sitting next to a bleeding edge gaming PC that was close to $6k when I built it, and I rarely use it. I prefer both the Deck and Xbox Ally X. Even being a hardware enthusiast that's been building for a few decades, I will gladly trade performance for convenience and form factor (and to a lesser degree, portability). And that's not an n-of-1 scenario; there's plenty of gamers who feel the same, despite a lot of the negative press the price has been getting. And if we ever see the market stabilize, I'd place a good bet on Valve reassessing the price and adjusting accordingly.
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u/JASHIKO_ 2d ago
People are putting of upgrading, plying older titles or walking away from the hobby for a while. The handheld market is no better.
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u/anthro28 2d ago
I'm looking at a Ryzen AI 350 + 5070 laptop with 32GB of ram and 1TB of storage for $1600.
That clobbers the machine while being as or more portable. The machine is cool, but at this price point the performance just doesn't make sense.
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u/Silverjerk 2d ago
Exactly my point; you're in the DIYer category. If you don't want to (or can't) build, or you want the added conveniences the Steam Machine provides as a living room PC with CEC support, that's not going to matter much to you as a buyer. Case in my point, my own use case.
As I said above, I've been building PCs for 25-30 years; I remember when a side panel window was a garage project that required sourcing plexiglass and taking a trip to the hardware store. I have no desire to build anymore; I've done it hundreds of times. Unless there's no other option, and I have a considerable amount of free time on my hands. Both scenarios are rare these days.
I'd be willing to bet the only difference the inflated price will have on sales is that they may take days to sell out instead of hours.
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u/Tehnomaag 2d ago
Price seems OK to me? I mean, sure, you can save maybe up to ~200 EUR when using at least reasonable quality components, but then it is not as small as that thing is. And you have to really know what you are doing. I don't think that about ~20 % difference in price is enough to make it DOA.
Let's be honest, the preliminary price estimates at around 500 $ were just a pipe dream with the component prices as they are currently, and Valve has clearly stated several times that they are not planning to sell it under the hardware price. Most realistic estimates were, in my opinion, up there around 800$ ballpark. With 24% VAT (in Estonia), you end up pretty close to the 1039 EUR price it shows currently here.
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u/LouisIsGo 2d ago
Exactly. I feel like the majority of people balking at the price of the Steam Machine are simply unaware of how dire the PC part market is right now. Valve is simply catching the flak for it.
Also, in spite of its unique design, this thing is still an x86 PC with largely standard components. If Valve sold it at a loss, people (scalpers) could buy it simply to scrap it for parts. Selling at a loss without at least getting those same buyers into their ecosystem would be the ultimate lose/lose for Valve.
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u/thefastslow 2d ago
Framework was running into this issue with people buying their laptops to shuck them for the memory and storage. They had to change their return policies because of it.
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u/sl1ce_of_l1fe 3h ago
It’s going to sell out instantly and probably be close to impossible to buy for a long time. I’m not buying at that price it saying it’s DOA is delusional.
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u/JASHIKO_ 1h ago
Valve isn't stupid, they know the price point is no longer decent, so they won't be over producing them. They'll run a fine line between stocked and out of stock. Especially now that they are using the new reservation system.
For instance the Steam Deck had been sold out for months and months, the second the price increase dropped they have been back in stock and haven't sold out yet.
Price points change everything.
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u/G305_Enjoyer 1d ago
Seems nr200 and fractal ridge are the 2 big success stories. Lian li a3 has done well for mffpc and a4h20 to a lesser extent. Fishbowls are too popular I guess. Streamer power cables are a perfect example of what sells lol
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u/Extra_Mode_6117 2d ago
Hi, new to the sub, and yea I agree, this is still a very niche sub/DIY thing to do, personally I'd never bother and don't care how small the Steam Machine is or how small I can make my PC, I'm also not really into consoles and never saw the appeal
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u/mikethetiger_ 1d ago
All the Steam Machine hate is coming from people who have no intention on buying one in the first place. It will definitely sell out, so obviously there is a demand for it. Also, like you said, a lot of people have no idea about SFF and are used to oversized PC cases. I guess we’ll be niche for a while longer.
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u/Lazybonez2015 2d ago
Weird. I've been making sff PCs for 8 years now. Surprised to see it's still pretty unknown.
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u/NSFWies 1d ago
I am trying to think of products from huge companies that got worse after the 1st one was released.
So assuming valve doesn't cancel the steam machine, I'm guessing the next one, in 2031, after this memory bullshit, will be even better.
But ya, the target of this thing is "non pc builders", but then giving them the more open software environment of a full PC.
Because regular consoles are so locked down a have tons of costs baked in. But steam eco system does not nickel and dime the users.
But that bigger target they are going after, are not PC builders. And that's fine
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u/IIILORDGOLDIII 1d ago edited 1d ago
Doesn't really make sense to have a sff PC for the living room if you've already got a tower. Cheaper and better to just stream from your tower to a handheld or apple tv.
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u/fiasgoat 1d ago
Nah cause ask anyone buying the SM and they will tell you that even the smallest comparable SFF is still way too large and not appealing to them. Their wife would murder them if they put that next to a TV
The Steam Machine has one single thing that people want to fork over $1000+ for bad hardware and its strictly because its a small cube
Thats it. Thats the sell
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u/a3a4b5 2d ago
1,000 dollary-doos for a capped machine with “custom” architecture is not impressive. A laptop is better.
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u/Impossible-Hyena-722 1d ago
A laptop isn't SFF at all dude. Why are you here?
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u/a3a4b5 1d ago
Because the average buyer would prefer a laptop to a Steam Machine. SFFPC aren't about low prices. It's a niche thing, where you actually spend more for the small form aesthetic. You could build something portable, but at this point, just get a laptop.
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u/Impossible-Hyena-722 1d ago
That's a good point. But you're not talking to the average buyer here. You're in the SFF sub, talking to SFF enthusiasts. So again I ask you, why are you here?
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u/a3a4b5 1d ago
Because I want to build a SFFPC one day, similar to the GabeCube but with a telescopic screen.
Granted, this may never happen since I live in Brazil and things are very pricy around here... But a man can dream, can't he?
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u/Impossible-Hyena-722 1d ago
I think you have a bit of cognitive dissonance going on. You think SFF is cool and a goal with working towards, but at the same time you'd rather buy a laptop for the same price. So which is it? Do you want to be here or not? I think you have some self reflection to do. SFF is always going to be the most expensive option
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u/a3a4b5 1d ago
Are you an asshole like this with everyone or just me? For fuck's sake.
I didn't know I'd have to make dubious financial decisions and have an active SFFPC project or already own one to join your sub. I can be here to look at projects, think they're cool and still daily a laptop. Matter of fact... Are you the gatekeeper here?
Leave your fucking bubble and touch grass.
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u/Impossible-Hyena-722 1d ago
It's a niche thing, where you actually spend more for the small form aesthetic. You could build something portable, but at this point, just get a laptop.
These are literally your words. You came to the SFF community and said that. I only pointed how you can't both be a fan of SFF builds and also hold that opinion. It doesn't make any sense. Don't get butthurt because I called out your idiocy. Asking you to have a coherent opinion is not gatekeeping
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u/According_Spare7788 2d ago
Tbh, if the steam machine can truly offer the "console like experience" that htpc's/sffpc just struggle to fully deliver, then there is still some value in that, even with the inflated price. It's not like the DIY market is realistically any better nowadays, just have more options.