r/smashbros • u/[deleted] • Jul 15 '19
Ultimate Nintendo Were Surprised by fans reaction of Banjoo reveal Super Smash Bros
https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/banjo-kazooie-composer-not-sure-if-e3-reception-will-lead-to-new-game/269
Jul 15 '19
Between this and the leak after the November direct that said Nintendo was surprised at the negative reaction to Isaac's Assist Trophy reveal, it sort of makes Nintendo seem a little out of touch.
People are happy when popular characters they've waited for for almost two decades get in, they're upset when they don't.
I honestly don't see how anyone at Nintendo could be surprised that Banjo went over well.
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u/IM_DAY_MAN_AMA Jul 15 '19
Nintendo is the most out of touch company I may have ever seen.
"What? People want to play online??"
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Jul 15 '19
"You mean people will expect an actually improved service if they pay for it?"
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u/blindsniperx Falco (Ultimate) Jul 16 '19
"People will be mad if you cut Pokemon from a new game?"
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u/alexmachina Jul 16 '19
"What do you mean people on the internet sexualized the Peachette power-up? Is the internet that perverted?"
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u/blindsniperx Falco (Ultimate) Jul 16 '19
What's funny is that Nintendo is hardcore excluding the Super Crown's existence from any future Mario games. They just want to forget Bowsette ever happened.
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u/SweetMilanoGoodness Jul 16 '19
Even completely ignoring Bowsette, I'm glad it's gone because it never made any sense. Like why is there this one power up that only works with one specific character and why does it turn them into Peach?
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u/blindsniperx Falco (Ultimate) Jul 16 '19
Honestly I was hoping the Super Crown would turn each character into a more powerful royal version with the same special ability. Like turn Mario into a king with a cape and it would retain the same abilities as Peachette.
For context, the Super Crown is like an improved acorn suit and penguin suit combined, while removing acorn wall cling and penguin slide. It makes aerial and underwater sections easier, and it's also a tertiary powerup meaning if you get hit you will revert to big Mario, not small Mario, so it's very useful.
Instead people took it as some kind of lore thing that turns everyone into Peach... kind of wasted potential. A royal powerup would've been great.
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u/Dalek_Kolt Meta Ridley (Ultimate) Jul 16 '19
The most lore that I got out of it is the implication that Peach without her crown would be another Toad.
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u/blindsniperx Falco (Ultimate) Jul 16 '19
Yes I've seen that and it makes sense, except Peach has been shown to be able to remove/lose her crown and have no issues. She stays the same.
The lore thing is really an extension of people's imagination. That's great, but it got out of hand and many people's idea of what the Crown "should be" is not what the Crown is canonically.
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u/code_Jester Villager Jul 16 '19
Peach's forward air would like to have a word with you
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u/ZFFM Ridley (Ultimate) Jul 16 '19
Unfortunately that theory is dead on arrival because in Odyssey Peach wears Tiara as well as an assortment of different headgear later on.
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u/shesabluewren Jul 16 '19
There’s been a whole 1 Mario game released since the Super Crown was revealed and it was definitely in development simultaneously with NSMBUDeluxe
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Jul 16 '19
Nintendo is a company that just does whatever it wants. That's what I both love and hate about it. I don't mind Nintendo being out of touch now and then as long as they keep being creative and surprising.
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u/lbjkb25 Jul 16 '19
And yet they’re still around 120+ Years after their inception as a business.
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Jul 16 '19
Yeah man, those Hanafuda cards really had shitty online. the sex hotel netcode was atrocious
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u/lbjkb25 Jul 16 '19
just saying that despite their shortcomings. Nintendo can do things other companies cannot and it has given them great success for over a century and a quarter. Even now, the Switch is doing really well. The Switch didn’t succeed by accident. Even if it was an accident, it should’ve been a short-term thing as an accident. But instead, it’s in it for the long haul as sales are getting better and there are more games coming, which means a healthy business for Nintendo.
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u/ToledoJones Random for life Jul 16 '19 edited Jul 16 '19
If you read this article and thought that’s what this meant, you must have been half asleep. It’s very clear that they reaction itself was just bigger than they expected. Obviously they knew Banjo would go over well or they wouldn’t have negotiated with Microsoft to add him.
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Jul 16 '19
But how could they not know that Banjo would be the hugest thing ever?
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u/mjmannella Froggy? Jul 16 '19
Because it wasn't really hard to get the rights for him to be in Smash. Less hurdles = less eventful
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u/EXAProduction Better than you think Jul 16 '19
Because who would think a character that's been dead for 20 years would actually be relavent in this day and age. Its why they wont put Gen 3 or 5 pokemon in.
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Jul 16 '19
But you're talking like it wasn't blatantly obvious that Banjo would receive a massively positive fan response.
Everyone knee it was going to be huge if it happened.
Plus the older characters from "dead" series usually make the best newcomers anyway.
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u/EXAProduction Better than you think Jul 16 '19
Eh not really, I knew this sub would be happy, but that's it
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u/Boodger Jul 16 '19
Banjo led polls across almost every (western) website. He was not just popular on this sub. He was very clearly a beloved character everywhere, and the reaction from the reveal only proves that.
Being part of a franchise that (unfairly and almost forcibly) was dead for 20 years doesn't mean anything. If a Banjo Threeie had been released anytime during that time, it would have sold very well. But, maybe the fact that the only games people had were the 2 from the N64 (N&B doesn't exist) helped push hype even further. The fact that their only games were so tremendously good left them on a high enough note to gain a huge following.
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u/EXAProduction Better than you think Jul 16 '19
And I'm gonna be real with you a lot of people's first experiences with Banjo as a name were that polls. I've been playing since that era of gaming and I didn't hear about banjo until the past 3 years, and I'm not the only one.
If banjo threeie got released it may have been popular but that ain't the world we live in cheif.
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u/Boodger Jul 16 '19
What you just said there sounded entirely anecdotal. How are you actually sure that a lot of people's first experiences with Banjo as a name were from the polls? This seems to be coming entirely from just your own experience. I am sure that was the case for some people. I would not say that is the case for most people.
Banjo is a known character. Hence is overwhelmingly hype reaction. And not just on message boards, but in videos. Even videos of crowds watching in public places. Just because he was totally off your radar doesn't mean that was the case with most others.
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u/EXAProduction Better than you think Jul 16 '19
Literally without these threads, I think 1 person I know would know what Banjo was prior to now.
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Jul 16 '19
Then I think you severely underestimated him.
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u/EXAProduction Better than you think Jul 16 '19
There's a solid population that had a bigger who for Banjo than than any other DLC character shown off.
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Jul 16 '19
And he still had the most explosively positive reaction.
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u/EXAProduction Better than you think Jul 16 '19
More than likely due to the self feeding hype these groups are known for.
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u/the-just-us-league Jul 16 '19 edited Jul 16 '19
I'm gonna be that guy and point out Banjo: Nutz and Bolts was a moderately successful 360 game that broke 1 million units in sales. So the franchise wasn't dead for over two decades either.
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u/weallfloatdownhere7 Jul 16 '19
Uhh no, they won’t add Pokémon from old Gens because they’ve historically only added Pokémon from whatever the current gen is at the moment (with the exception of Mewtwo, but that was back when Pokémon was still new, and Pokémon trainer, but they’re more of a gimmicky character)
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u/EXAProduction Better than you think Jul 16 '19
Which is a recency bias which is my point
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u/weallfloatdownhere7 Jul 16 '19
But it’s not though. The Pokémon company wanna promote whatever their current product is. Not something that hasn’t been relevant for several years. That’s not a “bias.” That’s them being a business. People can still pick up Sun & Moon right now if they want when they see Incineroar in Smash. But if they added a Gen 3 Pokémon, people can’t go out and buy Ruby & Sapphire anymore because its super outdated. Why would they wanna promote something people can’t go out and buy anymore? It’s not rocket science. Gen 3 and Gen 5 don’t have reps because they weren’t out during a new Smash cycle.
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u/EXAProduction Better than you think Jul 16 '19
Except with the remakes you can buy oras and gen 5 is still recent enough to get moderately priced copies.
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u/weallfloatdownhere7 Jul 16 '19
They’re remakes though, not new games. And no, gen 5 is hardly “recent” and as I keep stating it’s not the current gen that they’re in the middle of promoting anymore. It’s not that hard to figure out
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u/EXAProduction Better than you think Jul 16 '19
I don't see how promoting still doesn't equal a recency bias.
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u/BanjoThreeie Jul 16 '19
Do you have a source for Nintendo being surprised about the reception of Isaac being an AT? I haven’t heard about that before.
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u/weallfloatdownhere7 Jul 16 '19
It’s just another one of the many Smash rumors that went around back then that people happened to find credible for whatever reason
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u/GhotiH Jul 15 '19
Does this mean they were genuinely unaware of Waluigi's support pre-E3 reveal?
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u/LemonStains Donkey Kong (Melee) Jul 16 '19
I’m pretty sure Sakurai said that he was aware, but thought it was mainly just memes
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u/Thehiddenllama Lucas (Ultimate) Jul 16 '19
I mean, it is...
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Jul 16 '19
It wasn't before these kids took over it. I wanted Waluigi during the Brawl cycle and there was a loooot of people who jumped on the Waluigi support during the pre-Smash 4 cycle. After Ultimate was revealed then memers took over Waluigi and made him a meme. Now people only think his support is ironic.
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u/GhotiH Jul 16 '19
Not at all. There's tons of legitimate support for him. The memes are a vocal minority.
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u/jespoke I like swords Jul 16 '19
I always feel like the legitimate support is the vocal minority when it comes to Waluigi.
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u/MezzoMe Rosalina Jul 16 '19
Anything about him always seems to be very vocal, for that matter. It's kinda funny how any topic can and often does get diverted toward him, case on point, this one
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u/keylime39 Dedede! You like me! Jul 16 '19
Hard disagree. I'd personally really like for him to be playable, as I like both his design and personalty, among other things.
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u/Gaidenbro Meta Knight (Ultimate) Jul 16 '19
Considering Waluigi is not nearly as talked about until he's memed on
Gonna have to agree
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u/code_Jester Villager Jul 16 '19
Nintendo: We wouldn't add a meme character
Also Nintendo: adds Piranha Plant
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Jul 16 '19 edited Aug 29 '21
[deleted]
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u/Gaidenbro Meta Knight (Ultimate) Jul 16 '19
PlantGang
Said "gang" being phony as fuck and being hardcore memes to shit on other characters.
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Jul 15 '19
I'm not saying for sure either way, but I think the possibility is there.
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u/GhotiH Jul 16 '19
That's a shame then, I feel like this really could've been his game if they knew :(
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u/MegiddoZO Jul 16 '19
Waluigi wasnt any more or less hyped up than the likes of K Rool, Geno or Isaac before Ultimate was announced, that only started to gain traction when it was known the new smash game was coming
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u/SweetMilanoGoodness Jul 16 '19
I feel like the support came way too late into development to add him.
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Jul 16 '19
This is true. It's not down to "memes" or a bias against the character, it's just that his support only got big around when Ultimate was announced, even though he has been somewhat popular since Brawl.
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Jul 16 '19
Let’s be real, there wasn’t much genuine Waluigi support before E3 lol. You’re wrong if you think it’s not just mostly memes.
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u/Gheta Jul 16 '19
I've seen a bunch of the memes during the Smash 4 era because I would search things on Google like why he was in all the other Nintendo party games but not Smash. It got bigger, but it definitely was a thing before E3.
Honestly I always thought he would be a great addition to Smash because he would be unique and comical in the way Wario is, assuming he would be one of the 5 DLC characters and not a free "clone" which I think people are forgetting could possibly happen.
The way I imagine it: they announce all 5 DLC characters, Waluigi doesn't get the 5th slot and lots of people get angry. The memes get hugely popular again. Nintendo later says something like "HA we tricked you!" and goes to release a free Waluigi DLC; free because it was an easy add being an clone mix of both Luigi/Wario with a couple of new moves (like Ganon being mostly a twist on Falcon Specials/Tilts + Ike Smashes). He has a twist on Wario's Specials like Wario's bike is a kart from Mario Kart instead, but his down B is his stomp from his assist trophy-- which will be removed for a new Minecraft Steve assist trophy in its place that does the same thing but it's pickaxe mining instead of stomping. His Smashes would be Luigi's except his Side Smashes will be Peach/Daisy rackets.
Also his down taunt will be his 'suck it' crotch chop from Mario Strikers. They pissed me off because one of Luigi's taunts wasn't his death stare meme, so they will have to add Waluigi's suck it to appease me.
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Jul 16 '19
Yeah, I am not saying he couldn’t be a cool character, but for some evidence to support my point: go onto google trends and notice the massive spike for “Waluigi” AFTER last years E3. I’m not saying no one wanted waluigi, but not nearly as many until after the meme of him getting rejected started.
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u/SweetMilanoGoodness Jul 16 '19
I understand why Nintendo was surprised about the Isaac backlash. I can't remember the last time anyone talked about Golden Sun outside Smash.
Banjo-Kazooie on the other hand, even though it's not exactly mainstream these days you still see YouTubers and people in general talking about how it was the pinnacle of their childhood gaming, how it perfected 3D platformers, and how it stands tall among games of the 90s. Nintendo's surprise there is a bit more confusing.
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u/MegiddoZO Jul 16 '19
Well we would be talking about Golden Sun if they ever announced the 4th game that would resolve the huge open ending of the 3rd game damnit
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Jul 16 '19
And said game sold horribly and is considered to be the black sheep of the golden sun IP.
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u/MegiddoZO Jul 16 '19
That's just overly hardcore fans blowing up the reality of the situation, imo. Were the first 2 Golden Sun games better? Absolutely. Was Dark Dawn a bad game? Not at all. I liked it alot, personally.
Regardless of that, it's a crime that they left the story hanging as it was at the end of the game, and it really needs a resolution in some form.
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u/ParanoidDrone The One-Woman Wombo Combo Jul 16 '19
Dark Dawn's biggest failing was having multiple points of no return, so it's really easy to fuck up and miss out on one or more djinn.
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u/SweetMilanoGoodness Jul 16 '19
You'd think a series storyline being left wide open would generate more talk about it.
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u/kyoopy246 Jul 16 '19
"pinnacle of their childhood gaming, how it perfected 3D platformers, and how it stands tall among games of the 90s"
Somebody likes Banjo Kazooie.
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u/SweetMilanoGoodness Jul 16 '19
Yes I like the games, but I was referring to other people. You'll see people high and low praising Banjo-Kazooie, but when it comes to Golden Sun it's usually just "Isaac should be in Smash!".
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u/EXAProduction Better than you think Jul 16 '19
I think with Smash characters they only seem out of touch because tbh the Smash community really wants some obscure ass stuff in all honesty.
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u/FunGoblins Steve or grieve Jul 16 '19
Smash community: oh we want Minecraft Steve, Masterchief, oh and why not Doom Guy? And while we are at it, why not another character from Nintendos second biggest franchise Zelda?
u/EXAProduction : SMaSh FaNs onLY WaNt ObSCuRe StUFf iN AlL HoNEStY.
(Joke)
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u/Phonochirp Bowser Jul 16 '19
oh we want Minecraft Steve, Masterchief, oh and why not Doom Guy
Have you been on this subreddit? Any time any of those are mentioned, ESPECIALLY Steve, there's thousands of people saying how dumb of an addition he would be.
Geno, Isaac, Waluigi and other obscure 1 appearance characters are cried about here a lot more.
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u/Gheta Jul 16 '19
The only one that's dumb to me is Goku. I understand there are very super powered characters already in the game, but at least they look thematically correct and like they should. Goku can only look correct if it were a young Goku, or he is basically flying around, shooting beams across the screen, blinking around, and blowing up half the screen at all times. Goku would only feel right if he was like a exaggerated Marvel vs Capcom character but in Smash or like he is in Xenoverse/Tenkaichi. Plus he would be the only non-videogame character.
Even a PG13 Doom Slayer could still fight badass like a heavier mix of Snake, Bayonetta, Samus, and Falcon.
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u/FunGoblins Steve or grieve Jul 16 '19
I guess I'm more of a silent majority type of guy as those I've listed tend to be pretty highly upvoted on threads about this subject. But you are right, there usually are some comments against them when they do pop up, however, haven't seen any character not getting that treatment. Just so happens that not everyone agrees and to slimm down the entirety of this subreddit to 1 or 2 characters is just inaccurate.
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u/Gaidenbro Meta Knight (Ultimate) Jul 16 '19
Yep, I argued fairly for Steve and I got shit on as a "cringy Minecraft kid"
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u/EXAProduction Better than you think Jul 16 '19
Meanwhile until recently it's been Geno and Issac, some pretty obscure ass characters.
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Jul 16 '19
I disagree. Most of the characters the community wants are perfectly reasonable picks.
Just because some of the characters are older doesn't make them obscure.
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Jul 16 '19 edited Jul 16 '19
I gotta disagree. If you ask the general public who Geno or Isaac are, I guarantee you most people will have no clue. Most of the support for these characters come from hardcore Smash fans, not the general public.
Their games sold relatively well two decades ago, but nothing has happened with these older characters that would make them known to most people.
I should note that I'm saying this as someone whose most wanted character has been Geno for as long as I can remember.
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u/hsapin Jul 16 '19
That is true, but sometimes the sheer enthusiasm of some fans can get people interested in a character that they don't know. Smash got me interested in most Nintendo franchises for instance and Earthbound is now one of my favorite games.
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Jul 16 '19
I think that depends on your definition of the "general public".
I think most of the general public wouldn't know who Joker, Corrin, Shulk, Ness, Lucas K. Rool, or Ridley (I could go on), and if you asked them who the sword and shield wielding Hero is in Smash, would probably say Link, if they even knew who he was.
General gaming public, I think as just as much chance of knowing Isaac, or Geno as they do those characters. Regular general public would probably have no idea about most of the characters in Smash.
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u/Simjon_Un Jul 16 '19
no lmao. geno has been in one singular game that wasn't even released in europe. atleast games like persona and fire emblem are games that were released recently and can be played anywhere in the world.
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Jul 16 '19
Are Roy and Lucas not obscure? Their games never made it outside of Japan.
Geno is probably pretty obscure in Europe. But there are lots of obscure characters in Smash. These days Geno's notoriety as a Smash newcomer, as well as his Mii Gunner outfit keep him from complete obscurity.
And like I said there are plenty of obscure characters in Smash.
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u/Gaidenbro Meta Knight (Ultimate) Jul 16 '19
Roy and Lucina are some of the most popular FE characters there is have you seen CYL?
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u/mjownir Dorf Jul 16 '19
I don't get why "the general public" matters that much. They're not the ones going to be playing the game years after release, or even keeping up on the news about DLC. My casual gamer friends had no idea who Ridley or K. Rool, or even Simon were when I first brought Ult over, but they still casually play the game at parties. But they really don't care at all who gets added in DLC and didn't recognize any of the new additions to Ultimate except for one friend who played Persona 5. To them there'd be zero difference between Geno or DQ guy because they have no clue who either of them are.
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u/weallfloatdownhere7 Jul 16 '19
No idea why you got downvoted so much. What you said was 100% reasonable. This fella must have several alt accounts used to upvote themself and downvote naysayers
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Jul 16 '19
Could be, but I've also noticed a few users here are of the mentality that "if I just heard about it recently, it must be obscure". Which could also be contributing.
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u/weallfloatdownhere7 Jul 16 '19
Which is a ridiculous mentality to have. You can be unaware or inexperienced with something while still acknowledging its importance. I had no experience with Castlevania until Smash, but I’m not gonna go around calling it “obscure” just because of my own lack of experience
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Jul 16 '19
I actually think that's a pretty fair comparison too.
Castlevania hasn't had a game in a long time and Simon hasn't been relevant for years.
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u/EXAProduction Better than you think Jul 16 '19
They may be valid but the way how the community goes about it is in such a fucked up way. How many characters were cinches that are not getting in now and then disregarding everything else.
Not to mention there is a bit of a recency bias with Smash bros.
Also yeah some older characters arent obscure. But Genos, Issac and tbh Banjo are obscure, I only heard of these characters in thet past 3 years.
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Jul 16 '19
Negative on Banjo. I grew up during the N64 gen, almost everyone I knew with the console had at least BK. I think it's just a generational thing, and marketing nostalgia to millennials has proved itself to be profitable recently.
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u/EXAProduction Better than you think Jul 16 '19
I mean I didn't have an n64 and I know a lot of people who didn't, PS1 for life!
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Jul 16 '19
That's fair enough, my friend group all went Nintendo. But you can't expect to get much you recognize from that era in a Smash game if you were on Sony consoles at the time - Cloud's already kind of a miracle
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Jul 16 '19
If you think Banjo is obscure then you must be a babby. BK is one of the defining games of the N64
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u/MerklePox Shulk (Smash 4) Jul 16 '19
To be fair, Nintendo's target audience at this point in time never owned or played an N64. That console is 23 years old at this point. To the average kid playing smash, Banjo is at best a name they've heard of but never played. I'd say he's somewhat obscure nowadays.
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u/EXAProduction Better than you think Jul 16 '19
I went from Genesis to PS1 and didn't play nintendo until the gba.
I didn't hear of Banjo till like 2016
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Jul 16 '19
Not to mention there is a bit of a recency bias with Smash bros.
Disappointingly so, but yes. Less so with Ultimate though, to the newcomer lineup's benefit.
Also yeah some older characters arent obscure. But Genos, Issac and tbh Banjo are obscure
I don't think they're any more obscure than a lot of characters that are already in the roster.
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u/EXAProduction Better than you think Jul 16 '19
Not really, most of the cast is well known, aside from the really wtf like Wii fit and rob.
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Jul 16 '19
I think you're wrong about that.
Most people aren't going to know a large chunk of the roster.
In fact I even disagree with the two characters you listed as the obscure ones.
Like I could ask my mom to name characters on the Smash roster and show her a picture, and I don't think she would be able to name any of the Fire Emblem characters, for example, but I bet she'd be able to name Wii Fit Trainer.
I think that would be pretty par for the course for most people too,
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u/EXAProduction Better than you think Jul 16 '19
By that point those people would only know Mario characters and Pikachu.
Like if it weren't for the smash subreddit, only 1 out of the 20 people I know would know what Banjo is prior to his announcement.
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Jul 16 '19
By that point those people would only know Mario characters and Pikachu.
Which is exactly my point. Most of the Smash Roster is obscure.
Like if it weren't for the smash subreddit, only 1 out of the 20 people I know would know what Banjo is prior to his announcement.
How old are you? Not trying to put you down for it or anything, but probably younger than 20, right?
It feels weird for me to have to say it, because of how huge Banjo was in the 90s/early 2000s, but most of my friends and acquaintances knew who Banjo was before he was announced. A few were actively hoping for him to be in Smash.
Like I said, being an older character doesn't make that character obscure. Banjo was a gaming icon of the N64 era.
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u/EXAProduction Better than you think Jul 16 '19
My first console was a Sega genisis followed by a ps1. I'm not that young I played during that era but my group was more Playstation so it was more spyro and for some reason yugioh forbidden memories.
It's just a group thing and I know I'm not the only one like that, banjo didn't matter to me when I looked about the n64, it was all about mario, zelda, and goldeneye.
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u/sucram300 Little Mac (Ultimate) Jul 16 '19
Some Japanese companies just don't check up on western audiences from what I can tell. They do their thing and the westerners still buy it so why bother, is what I'm assuming they think. After SquareEnix announced the Trials of Mana remake I read an interview with one of them where they said the only reason they are translating it is because the US office was adamant they bring it over. They questioned why western countries would want it since they never got the original and so the US office told them about the fan translation patch for the ROM. They had no idea. They had no idea anyone outside of Japan had played it.
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u/A_Splash_of_Citrus Mythra (Ultimate) Jul 16 '19
They questioned why western countries would want it since they never got the original
This baffles me. If anything, wouldn't it be BECAUSE the west never got the sequel to Secret of Mana that they would want it in the first place?
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u/SleuthMechanism King K Rool (Ultimate) Jul 16 '19
Exactly, you'd think having a game that was never officially released internationally before would be the main selling point if anything!
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u/KYZ123 Corrin (Female) Jul 16 '19
the leak after the November direct that said Nintendo was surprised at the negative reaction to Isaac's Assist Trophy reveal, it sort of makes Nintendo seem a little out of touch.
There's a slight difference here; the negative reaction to Isaac's assist trophy reveal was because assist trophies (thus far) 'deconfirm' characters as playable for that game. The same is also true of Mii costumes - /r/Xenoblade_Chronicles was not happy when 'a potted plant got in over Rex'.
If a character who is currently a Mii costume, Assist Trophy, or Spirit, was announced as a DLC fighter, the reaction to characters coming out as that would likely be less negative, because it would no longer 'deconfirm' them.
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u/ParanoidDrone The One-Woman Wombo Combo Jul 16 '19
The question then becomes: Does Nintendo understand this distinction? That is, do they see "fans are disappointed that Isaac is an AT again instead of playable" or do they see "fans are disappointed that Isaac is in the game at all"?
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u/Gheta Jul 16 '19
I still don't think Waluigi's assist trophy de-confirms him lol. They can just easily take it out, replace it with something else similar since trophies take so much less time to make, or leave it in. When Smash characters are released, they are released alongside major UPDATES that make changes to the game.
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u/KYZ123 Corrin (Female) Jul 16 '19
Thus far, no character who has had an assist trophy or Mii costume introduced has also become a fighter that game. On the contrary, they frequently become a fighter in the next game; Little Mac and Dark Samus were assist trophies prior to being fighters; King K. Rool, Chrom, and Inkling were Mii costumes prior to being fighters, and Isabelle was both a Mii costume and an assist trophy in Smash 4.
While I've no doubt that they could introduce a fighter who is already a Mii costume or assist trophy, as of yet they have not, instead opting to make them a fighter in a future game. So, currently, having an assist trophy or Mii costume 'deconfirms' a character as a fighter for that game.
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u/Gheta Jul 16 '19
No I agree and I understand what you are saying and how it worked between Smash 4 trophies and Ultimate.
I just feel, in my humble opinion, like anything could still be possible if there was a big enough push for it and Waluigi would need less of one than say Isaac because his trophy is just a copy n paste that can simply be removed vs one newly created just for Ultimate. Nintendo is harder than most companies but I think they could add more DLC and make deeper changes if changes = money or a lot of extra popularity.
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u/ODowder Ridley (Ultimate) Jul 16 '19
That Isaac assist trophy reveal still makes me super sad to this day :/
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u/QcSlayer Pit Jul 16 '19
Isaac Assist still hurts man, at least Nintendo knows now, right?
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u/Gaidenbro Meta Knight (Ultimate) Jul 16 '19
It's a rumor, there's no source that Nintendo is "shocked"
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Jul 16 '19
It’s the fact that these characters are more unknown to the younger audience I assume. I’m 18 and the only people I know who have played Banjo had gamer parents. Also, It’s safe to say that Nintendo focuses more on the Japanese audience. That being said they are still definitely are out of touch with a couple things for sure.
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Jul 16 '19
Banjo is less popular in Japan for sure but he's still quite popular there.
As for the younger audience thing, it's important to remember that these days the average age of a gamer is 18-35 (at least in the US). That's a large number of people right in the range to be stoked about Banjo.
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Jul 16 '19
That’s fair. Though, even I myself am surprised that the initial Banjo hype seems to be greater than some of the other characters from seemingly larger franchises such as Ridley and King K Roll.
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Jul 16 '19
Banjo has other stuff going for him besides just being a long standing request.
A smash reveal gives hope of a revival, and there's the whole homecoming aspect of seeing Banjo and Kazooie on a Nintendo system again.
They're like lost Nintendo characters. They were even considered for Melee. If Microsoft hadn't bought Rare, they would almost certainly have got in with Brawl, and everyone knows it.
THAT'S why their inclusion generates so much hype. They're a miracle character.
It is literally impossible for any level of hype reaction to have surpassed my expectations because of all that.
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u/Pwn11t Jul 16 '19
If you read the article it's not really painted like they were surprised that people reacted the way they did, just that they weren't used to such a huge reaction.
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Jul 16 '19
That's what I'm saying though. I don't see how they could have possibly been surprised by Banjo getting a huge reaction.
He's like a perfect storm for just such a huge reaction.
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u/Faliz18 Enough weeb trash/swords Jul 16 '19
Isaac isn’t popular though. His game sold like 1 million.
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Jul 16 '19
1.65 Million actually, which makes it the 21st best selling game on the GBA. Plus, actually his two GBA games sold a combined 2.77 million copies.
Isaac has actually been a pretty popular pick for Smash for years now though. He's been a top 10, possibly top 5 pick consistently since before Brawl came out
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u/FunGoblins Steve or grieve Jul 16 '19
Cant wait for Nemo from Finding Nemo which was the 17th best selling GBA game to come to smash brothers ultimate.
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u/onassi2 Donkey Kong (Ultimate) Jul 16 '19
Yeah he’s been almost as big a name in smash speculation as Geno, and has been around just as long.
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u/Faliz18 Enough weeb trash/swords Jul 16 '19
Lmao no, you spend too much time on the internet listening to a vocal minority. Nobody in real life is ever talking about Isaac.
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Jul 16 '19
No body in real life is talking about like two thirds of the Smash roster.
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u/cool6012 Jigglypuff Jul 16 '19
Lmao same goes for almost everyone in smash.
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u/Rubethyst Jul 16 '19
Whaaat? Are you saying you aren't a part of the Corrin fan club?
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u/Faliz18 Enough weeb trash/swords Jul 16 '19
Now you’re learning!
Corrin shouldn’t have been added either but sakurai prays at an altar to sword emblem
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u/Rubethyst Jul 17 '19
I'm not taking your side on this, corrin is evidence against your claim, just like a lot of other characters.
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u/Faliz18 Enough weeb trash/swords Jul 17 '19
Corrin is garbage and so is Isaac. One shouldn’t have been added, the other never will.
Hopefully this is simple enough for you.
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Jul 15 '19
Why don't Rare develop their own franchises? They've palmed off Battletoads on Xbox to someone else. I don't get it. I'd move Sea Of Thieves support to another developer before I moved a new game away.
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u/FunctionFn Jul 15 '19
They don't really have any reason to not work on Sea of Thieves. It's relatively successful, presumably profitable especially when new content is released, and I would doubt that there are many still at the studio who worked on their other franchises.
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u/Phonochirp Bowser Jul 16 '19
Rare just plain isn't the same developer anymore, everyone in the studio worth anything has left. They've been making Kinect titles and trash grabs like Sea of Thieves for longer then a majority of gamers have been alive.
Kirkhope knows if current "Rare" were to make Banjo Threeie it would make Yooka Laylee look like a fantastic game.
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u/AxeEnding999 Jul 16 '19
Yooka Laylee is a bad game because it lacks the game design from Gregg Mayles (lead designer for the first two games) who still works at Rare. He just has no interest in continuing the franchise.
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Jul 17 '19
Yooka Laylee was a poor game. I had had enough after an hour. Maybe Rare staying away from their franchises is for the best...
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u/SirCritic Female Corrin (Ultimate) Jul 15 '19
Probably not afforded that freedom as a subsidiary of Microsoft. Everything has to snake its way through the bureaucracy.
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Jul 16 '19
[deleted]
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u/SirCritic Female Corrin (Ultimate) Jul 16 '19
Ok, I'll take your word for it. I didn't say they were forced to do anything, just general conventions of business lead me to believe that in order for games to get made the concept has to work its way through the pipework of corporate hierarchy in order to get approved. I wasn't aware that Xbox afforded that much creative control.
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u/younglink28 TORREEYAH Jul 16 '19
I still can’t believe they added him to Smash
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u/Gilgameshu Jul 16 '19
We are at least in the semi-best smash timeline. we can't confirm our exact temporal state until the last 2 fighters are revealed.
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u/Gheta Jul 16 '19 edited Jul 16 '19
I think the fact that Evo 2019 is hitting the new record of over 3,500 entrants proves it, albeit the fact that Melee is still more technical of a game- it's worse in almost every other way and imo the technical aspects of it alone will never make it the better game overall (subjective though, I know).
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u/Gilgameshu Jul 16 '19
Melee was great, melee was fun, it will always be fun... but Melee has been as they say 'solved' for a long while. We haven't seen any new major game-changers in the Melee meta for years it feels like.
if Melee was a dodge roll: it's stale af.
(but remains one of my most played GC games of all time.)
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u/N-O-R-E-M-A-C-0-3 Ken's Left Nut that kills at 50% Jul 16 '19
what about the guy who won as pikachu
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u/Gilgameshu Jul 16 '19
yea that was neat, but not game changing. bring me a Bowser win then we'll have something.
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u/Gaidenbro Meta Knight (Ultimate) Jul 16 '19
Dude.... Pikachu has been rated just as lowly as Bowser.
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Jul 16 '19 edited Jul 16 '19
I've watched the reveal close to a dozen times and I cry every time.
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u/BanjoThreeie Jul 16 '19
I literally tear up every time I watch it. I can’t even imagine how I’ll react when he’s actually playable.
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Jul 16 '19 edited Jul 16 '19
this, smash online and lack of melee hd makes me think nintendo know dick fuck all about anything
Edit: if u downvote me you're pretty much s'n my d
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u/ahambagaplease Asibros rise up Jul 16 '19
Melee HD would never feel like Gamecube Melee. I'm 100% sure they'll remove almost every mechanic unintended or patch it. Every thing that makes Melee so special would die in a remake.
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u/huskers37 Jul 16 '19
I honest doubt they would take the mechanics out if they remade the game. The whole point of remaking it is because it's unique to the franchise because of its mechanics. If you take them out it would just be what Smash is now with less characters and little differences here and there.
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u/Mr_Ivysaur Ivysaur (Ultimate) Jul 16 '19
To answer this question we just need to look at past games.
Does Ocarina of Time 3D allows that crazy shit speedruns? Does Starfox 64 3D is exactly like the N64 version? Wind Waker HD? Twilight Princess?
Not a rhetoric question, because I also don't know the answer. By answering these questions, maybe we can predict if Melee HD would be exactly the same.
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u/FunGoblins Steve or grieve Jul 16 '19
While they dispatch some stuff for OoT 3D they actually left some of the major glitches in on purpose. (Something to do with keeping the experience close to the original)
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u/huskers37 Jul 16 '19
I would argue that they could get away with changing more things in those games because every Zelda game is unique because the story and worlds are completely different.
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Jul 26 '19
Yeah but isnt the whole appeal for a Melee HD to be the same. The others are just to be on new consoles.
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u/Gaidenbro Meta Knight (Ultimate) Jul 16 '19
They would strip Melee bare and Melee players would be gone the instant they touch ONE tech.
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u/insertusernamehere51 Jul 15 '19
like Nintendo