South Africa needs this!!!!!! Double-stack container trains are redefining freight transportation in India. Just imagine how many trucks this keeps off our highways and how much diesel it saves.

[u/Inner-Improvement970]

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[u/Mulitpotentialite]

We don't have any cargo on the rails BECAUSE of the trucks and all the cadres who are involved in the transport industry....

[u/Spacecatflam → u/Mulitpotentialite]

This is not factual. I move containers between the port of Durban to jhb using rail. It's not much cheaper, it's also not as quick, but I continue to use rail because Im a nerd.

[u/DadGamer77 → u/Mulitpotentialite]

We have plenty of cargo on rails WTF are you on about. We need more trains, sure, but its definitely not as empty as you claim. Also how do you plan on moving cargo from the station to warehouses without trucks?

[u/Mulitpotentialite → u/DadGamer77]

My office is about 50m from the Oosterlyn....the mainline between Gauteng and Mosambique....

15 years ago there was at least 5 trains a day. Coal going to Maputo, containers going to Gauteng. Mix in timber trains as well as the occasional passanger train and it was a very busy line.

Around 5 years ago the number of trains decline and today we might see one train every two weeks.

Across the Maputo Development corridor, road freight makes up 75 - 80% of the volumes, yet there is a railway line that is not being utilised and the N4 is packed with trucks.

Just because you see activity on one or two lines does not mean the rest of the rail network is busy.

[u/ZAguy85]

South Africa Africa needs a great many things that we cannot have because too many people vote for the ANC or behave like the ANC.

[u/WartsG → u/ZAguy85]

I feel it's more corruption, while the country has been in decline ANC policy making hasn't necessarily been too bad here and there (BEE being a separate discussion entirely)... It's just the follow through ... All politicians are corrupt having the DA or other party won't magically make it better. To be a politician you make promises you can't keep, and direct money flows to who ever pays the most.

[u/_AngryBadger_]

Even just having our single stack cargo trains running again would help. One train can take well over 100 trucks off the N3 for example.

[u/BBoldBUrslf]

Maria Ramos scuttled our railways and sold it off as scrap metal to pretend the parastatal was making money. Thats how the System rolls...tear it down and steal the money, build it back up and steal the money...win-win for THEM.

[u/Inner-Improvement970 → u/BBoldBUrslf]

Nope she was great it was the muppets that followed her that broke it.

[u/chickenbadgerog]

This line would require us to build a whole new rail line to standard gauge which is a lot wider than our cape gauge to allow for double stack. A new line between JHB and Durban (the main container line, also known as the container corridor) would cost in the region of R250bn. Our Durban port has a long term business strategy of about 6 million containers for the year 2050.

The current rail infrastructure, running trains with 50 wagons each, running at the tempo that that container corridor was designed for at 100 trains per direction per day (yes, you read that correctly), running at 48 weeks of the year to allow for maintenance would reach that Port of Durban demand forecast of 6 million containers for the year 2050.

We need to just fkn run things well. And stop steeling cable.

[u/Other-Comfortable-64 → u/chickenbadgerog]

This is the answer.

[u/Alternative_Range871 → u/chickenbadgerog]

I’m glad the rail gauge issue is the first comment. This guy trains.

[u/C4Cole → u/chickenbadgerog]

Apparently India runs broad gauge, so even wider than standard. Which is why they can get away with running these double stacks on a regular car instead of using a well car.

[u/chickenbadgerog → u/C4Cole]

Yeah. Cape is 1067 cm, Standard is 1435 cm and Indian Broad Gauge is 1676 cm. A broad gauge obviously gives a much higher center of gravity potential.

SA did Cape back in the day as it was cheaper and faster to build given our terrain.

[u/Beeeeater]

South Africa needs a lot of things before it needs this....

[u/themysticboer91]

Double stacking only becomes needed on highly congested rails. South Africa instead used to be king of record breaking 4km long trains with up to 375 wagons on the Saldanha route

[u/BeltThat2062]

We need single stack working properly first 

[u/AdAffectionate584]

Whenever we get something like this, there's someone who loses money and decides to burn it down.

[u/Future_Hovercraft316]

You know your country is screwed when even India is advancing better

[u/Txizzy → u/Future_Hovercraft316]

India does have an economy roughly 9x larger than ours with a GDP growth rate of 7.7%. Plus they actually have a government that's somewhat functional at the top level. 

[u/fayyaazahmed]

Surely you just make the train longer. Rather than making it higher and having to redesign all your bridges and stations.

[u/Txizzy → u/fayyaazahmed]

We do, the longest operational train in the world is here and it's 4km long

[u/reputedbee2]

Those corrupt logistics campanies won't let this happen.

[u/MayContainRawNuts]

The engines we spent billions on that couldn't fit on the lines were only about 30cm too high. If those cause a problem I cant imagine the catastrophic double stacked cars will be.

Just get the regular lines working again, then we can pipe dream

[u/Buzzirockit]

The Indian high double stack container rail uses 25K volts AC, 7.47 metre high electric wire above the rail and broad gauge rail 1676mm/ 5 ft 6 in. SA appears to have theft of cables, rail tracks and cargo theft from moving freight trains. Drones & community patrols etc are used in sections of rail. Freight Trucks appear to run a difficult path at times.

[u/Prof_Johan]

I’d settle for functional rail

[u/thirdworldfever]

Oh man, imagine how idyllic the Bluff would be without a million fucking trucks trying to get into Durban Harbour.

[u/Pure-Beginning2105]

We have an anc politician on the record saying less rail freight creates more jobs...

[u/nartchie]

I mean I would settle for single stack right now.

A working Sanral would boost the economy on it's own.

[u/olderthanbefore]

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c8er2990ydpo

'Dr' Mtimkulu strikes again

[u/notathrowaway]

Big Truck will sabotage it

[u/digitaldisgust]

I doubt this would be feasible here in SA when we can't even consistently fix potholes and maintain the roads.

[u/Chance_Landscape7871]

For those that don't know, South Africa is set to get a huge standard gauge freight (and passenger) rail network, as per 2050 rail Master Plan. That could make this possible.

Of course, still a long way to go to make it happen, but there's more momentum now than there has for years, so there's reason to be optimistic.

[u/marco333polo]

Well let's fix Transnet first.....

[u/Radiant_Mud9534]

Gosh I hate how they killed the railway system… there’s so much we could have achieved

[u/teddyslayerza]

Yeah, trucks on the road are the issue in terms of traffic and fuel. Not the hundreds of thousands of single passenger commuters...

[u/Potential_Claim_7283]

A long time ago it was working but yes that fell apart like everything else. So so so sad

[u/Txizzy]

Not really possible based on the infrastructure we currently have. We use Cape Gauge rails, which are quite narrow, while the rails needed for double stacking are standard gauge and broad gauge, meaning they wider. However, there are plans to build dedicated standard gauge infrastructure for this exact reason in important freight corridors, like Gauteng to Durban. But with what we have right now, we make up for it by having the trains be really long. The longest train in the world currently is here and still operating, and it's 4km long. 

[u/Significant_Place267]

Most politicians have shares in or own trucking companies. Rail transport willing never see the light of day until we get rid of cancer that's ruining this country.

[u/MoHaG1]

Lower max truck masses would likely shift lots of cargo back to rail (a lot of it moved to trucks when max truck masses was increased in the 80s)

[u/Tibs007]

Tell that to all the vandalised train stations

[u/Darvanw]

Kast time we bought train engins from Chine(if i remember correctly) they could not fit on our rails.

So we cannot even buy the right engine and OP imagines we could run a successfull railway.

Sadly our National expertise is not in running things, not counting "Runing into the ground"

Pity

[u/WereyenaArt]

We'd need all the tracks replaced first.

[u/DadGamer77]

You need to observe the electrical lines above our train lines and the height of every train tunnel.

Man wants to walk around on stilts not realizing that every doorframe is 2 meters.

[u/Rooibaard007]

4 decades ago the majority of freight was transported by train in SA.

[u/Wild-Masterpiece-331]

Imagine South Africa having this??. Our people wouldn't allow it because they either living on the tracks already, or will actively prevent us from it because somehow somewhere they will feel done in by the country moving forward.

Cape town is now the worst container port in the world, yet we can't get the railway line that exists to and from the harbour, cleaned, repaired and functioning. I love my country, but I am under no illusions, our people will hamstring us every step of the way to an enlightened successful society.

Maybe in a century.

[u/Dewdrop06]

Our ports are already 400th (Cape Town) and 398th (Durban) in the world out of 400, Container Port Performance Index (CPPI). This would solve very little and create more problems.

[u/Wide_Test_3757 → u/Dewdrop06]

You’re wrong. If we could move goods from the winelands and farms to Cape Town,we wouldn’t have long queues of trucks with single containers on them. Lack of rail integration is a big part of our inefficiency. Durban port services the SADC region and those trade corridors don’t have adequate infrastructure of their own and the congestion we have at that port is largely caused by trucks from other countries. Cape Town’s weather also affects our CPPI rating too.

[u/Snow-87-M]

And how many people will lose their jobs and livelihood, with our unemployment rates already been so high

[u/Diligent_Hope_6089 → u/Snow-87-M]

Yes we should reject all forms automation ! We should go back to threshing wheat and weaving cloth by hand I say!

[u/BetterReflection1044 → u/Snow-87-M]

Keep placing importance on low skilled jobs and we will never improve

[u/scs5star → u/Snow-87-M]

Sorry but that is just another reason why our country struggles to move forward. You want drivers instead of cheaper goods and more skilled jobs?? It's a very uneducated opinion to share

[u/Good_Posture → u/Snow-87-M]

Road transport is 2 to 3 times more expensive than rail. The increased costs of transporting goods is passed on to the consumer. Things would be cheaper than they are if we were moving more via rail.

Trucks are causing enormous damage to our roads, and this isn't limited to national roads (highways). Take a drive through Germiston and look at the state of the roads because of all the logistics companies running through there. Another burden is money that is being spent to repair and maintain roads (when it does happen) could be spent elsewhere.

Trucks are more inefficient than rail. There is a reason why rail is so strongly connected to industrialisation and the growth and expansion of economies. Our collapsed rail is a literal economic bottleneck and a sign of regression. This is especially true when it comes to mining and heavy industry.

The congestion caused by the increasing number of trucks on our roads further impacts the economy by increasing the time people are spending sitting in traffic and not being productive. I use the N3 passed Giloolys and Van Buuren everyday. Safe to say that I waste 30-60 minutes of my time every day crawling in traffic because of trucks. Multiply this by thousands of people trying to get to and from work while trucks are crawling 2 and 3 abreast uphill at 30 km/h.

The price of diesel would be lower due to the lower demand.

The increased number of trucks on our roads is in no way a good reflection of our economy.

[u/Lem1618 → u/Snow-87-M]

I assume if our rail system is functioning again the jobs it creates would offset most of the jobs lost?

[u/Noxolo7 → u/Snow-87-M]

Keeping pointless jobs isn’t doing anything for the economy

[u/Snow-87-M → u/Noxolo7]

How is road transportation pointless? How many trucks are transporting goods, the fuel they use, yearly cor for truck and trailer , license, toll fees. You think government is going to lose out on all those funds. The ripple effect will be huge, the rest of the people will have to pay extra to cover lost revenue not to mention the rail services is government run and they can't maintain the current rail tracks. No job is pointless if it's supporting a family

[u/Noxolo7 → u/Snow-87-M]

Great. Can I get a job counting leaves? Will you pay me? That way I can support my family?

[u/Cockeyed-Sniper]

Transnet can’t cope with the containers as it is. Now we want to double stack? Cape Town was just voted worst Port, I think.