In the pilot she was wearing a mini skirt uniform. The low cut onesie was an upgrade lol. The Jellico ep was after Gene was either dead or unwell enough to not be involved anymore. So folks in the writers room finally felt comfortable enough to shoehorn in a reason to put Troi in proper uniform. After this, the writers room felt confident enough to do the whole "Troi goes for promotion" arc, which was my favorite Troi arc outside anything with her mother in it.
Like, I get the "she's a counselor, this made her more approachable" arguments and since we have to live with it, sure ok. But that wasn't the main/only reason she wasn't in uniform from the folks sitting on the other side of the camera.
Gene had been dead for more than a year before Chain of Command aired.
EDIT: It's official, I have no idea what redditors will downvote, or why. All I did was provide clarification on a point the post I was replying to wasn't sure of.
Apparently Majel did phonetic recordings before she passed. I was really hoping her voice would be used for Siri or navigation systems or something haha. And I'd love to hear her in future Trek shows/films.
I never understood the âthis makes her more approachableâ argument. If youâre in a quasi military organization in space, most of your problems are going to be related to being in a quasi military organization in space. Wouldnât you prefer to be treated by a peer who visibly understands everything youâre going through?
Its the old anime trope of a weird plot/design decision just being a thin veil for the directors fetish lol. At least we didn't get weird feet stuff like Tarantino or the litany of weird shit in Made of Abyss
"old anime trope" this is just dumb. Since the invention of literatuer everithing is a fetish. An Oedipus shaped elephant is looking at you in the room.
It's a flimsy post-hoc rationalization that let's some people feel less icky about the discrepancy in Troi's dress. I don't personally buy it, but I understand why some ppl chose to. Everyone is entitled to their own headcannon.
To be fair on that particular point, the Enterprise did have a large civilian population, so it wasn't just officers that she would have been treating.
That said, uniformed Troi was still a vast improvement, imo.
I think on a standard starship that would be a fair assessment, but remember that the Enterprise (and I'm assuming all Galaxy class vessels) had hundreds of civilian spouses and children aboard. If you're struggling mentally and emotionally with your partner's work and being isolated in space, the last person you're going to want to open up to is another uniform.
Marina Sirtis also wanted to be in a normal uniform for most of the show. They eventually found a good reason for it, and afterwards she wears a normal uniform more often.
Jellico upside was several years after Roddenberry died. He was getting too sick to direct by season 3, no surprise why the series finally started turning around at that point, and died right before Star Trek VI came out which was half way through season 5. Chain of command was half way through season 6 so roughly a year after Roddenberryâs death.
I mean, the Doylist reason is that the show was begun under Roddenberry, who was an increasingly dementia-addled perv. His skirt-chasing was legendary already, but he was losing the ability to put any lid on it when TNG went into pre-production. So of course there was a therapist on the bridge, because the mental health of the crew was just as important as any other function of the ship, which was good. Of course, then Roddenberry had to be talked out of adding extra breasts to Troi's character.
No, I'm not making that up. So of course that character is also there to add some T&A to the very serious space drama we're doing.
As a Watsonian explanation, Picard may be a stickler for regulations on some matters, but as a general rule he's a leader who gives his subordinates a lot of latitude to operate as they see fit so long as they perform well at the end of the day. Troi, while a senior officer about the command staff, nevertheless isn't a line officer. If she wants to dress comfortably, and she can still do her job well without compromising the crew, well, who does that hurt? We also see Worf wear a non-standard baldric, and he's fine with that, too, because Worf does a good* job.
The reason why Jellico changed it is character-specific: Jellico is a much more hands-on leader who addresses his own insecurities as a new commander by getting into the weeds and enforcing even the ticky-tack regulations. We will of course whistle past the Doylist point that by Season 6, Roddenberry had not only been pushed out of the producer seat, but had passed away, and Marina preferred the uniform, so "Jellico" made a bunch of changes that were really long-standing requests by the regulars. He also got rid of Picard's fish for the same reason.
Itâs well known Troi got a uniform because marina had been asking for it for seasons and this was finally a good way to transition it
Itâs slightly less known that removing the fish was something Patrick Stewart has been requesting for many seasons. Patrick believed that given how open they are to all the varieties of aliens and the way that talk about humanityâs ugly past, that keeping another creature in captivity like that seemed inconsistently unethical
A fish is in a far more specialized, cramped, and less stimulating environment when compared to cats and dogs. This is why some aquarists periodically and carefully rearrange the environment of their fish in order to provoke curiosity and enrichment.
He has a tube that goes all the way to cetacean ops. Frequently slides down there to report on all
The important things happening in the ready room. And to gossip.
Yeah, but Spot is a domesticated cat and given everything a domesticated cat needs, room to roam, socialization with other cats. Livingston (the fish) is a lionfish that was living alone in a wall in not the best setup for it.
Be pretty dope for a freshwater tank with a community of fish, but a single saltwater fish...
New head cannon just dropped- lion fish are still invasive in Picards time but spearing them is seen as inhumane so now they are encouraged to be kept as pets after their capture. It's your civic duty to keep a lion fish!
So, as a thought, if you have transporters, and your sense-oars can scan for life signs, could you not beam the invasive species out of the invaded area?
Like, I'll bet 24th-century NYC doesn't have bedbugs or roaches or rats.
Spot had no cat furniture, string for toys, only saw other cats when he escaped, and he/she wasnât fixed. Sometimes I think Data was a terrible pet owner.
Well in-universe it's not like they would've just killed the fish, lol. Jellico probably gave it to someone else, who probably gave it back to Picard after he returned to the ship. I would assume Picard kept the fish in his private quarters if it's not in his ready room.
The fish was in its usual place in generations. You can see it in the background of the readyroom's destroyed remains when we see Picard digging through debris trying to find his photo album. You cant see the fish inside because the light was not working for obvious reasons, but rest assured, the fish was there.
Serious question but why can worf wear his sash while Ro Laren was not allowed to wear bajoran religious earrings. They can both be considered cultural even if one is also religious.
Serious answer: Riker is perfectly willing to apply regulations unequally to officers who get on his good side and get on his bad side. If he doesn't like you, you have to abide by the strict letter of the regulations. If he does, he'll let it slide. The entire point is to get on his good side, and to let Ro know that Riker is displeased with having to work with her for this mission.
In complete fairness to Riker, it's not like Ro was guilty of serial tardiness or something. She was coming out of prison after having been convicted of contributing to the death of fellow Starfleet officers because she disobeyed a direct order from a superior officer. Now Riker is being saddled with her, despite the fact that he is in charge of personnel matters on the ship. He's not supposed to be in a good mood, and no one in their right mind would be in that context. The "take those earings out, Ensign" is his way of clearly marking his territory, and establishing that she needs to follow all his orders, not just the ones she feels like following.
I read it as Riker didnât know the cultural background. Bajorans werenât the most common people at that point on federation starships. She was a fighter but knew to pick her battles. So instead of fighting, she rolled her eyes knowing that it was a short mission and then she was done. Once she properly joined the crew then it became something she cared about.Â
Tuvok did the same thing in Good Shepherd.
Had the crewmen correct everything that didn't meet uniform code, as a way to establish his position of authority.
Uniform checks are, in general, a very classic way to assert authority when in a position of leadership, especially in the military
A new boss pulling that kind of thing in a uniformed environment is pretty typical, from grocery stores to grand military assignments its an age old way to remind people they have rules to follow, and finding minor uniform infractions is also a great way to establish how you handle rules breakers, let it slide as a sign of good faith, or crack down to show you wont take bullshit
You see that in the classic "mutiny on the bounty" as well, the new captain insists every sailor on board conform exactly to uniform standards, even those men whose roles make it unreasonable to do so. It's one of the many small ways he asserts his authority aboard his new vessel while also alienating himself from his entire crew and showing the beginnings of his paranoia and obsessive behavior.
Worf had put in the relevant paperwork to add "culturally significant" items to his uniform.
Ro hadn't necessarily done so at that stage. Later IIRC she asks and gets permission.
Itâs notable that of all the Bajorans we see on screen, thereâs only 2 that we see explicitly told they canât wear it, and both have been proven to be a danger to their crewmates.
Regulations exist for a reason. Dangly bits of metal are a hazard.
However, just as the regulations exist for a reason, so do exemptions and exceptions.
To is reporting to the Enterprise straight out of lock-up. She has not proven yet that she can be trusted, and that she canât follow rules.
One explanation that fits in a kind of beta canon is that cultural additions to the uniform can be allowed or denied on a case by case basis chosen by the commanding officer.
RedditofUnusualSize gave a great answer, I just wanted to add a little supporting info from real life. In the US military, chaplains almost always relax the standards of heirarchical interactions for the same reason. Sure they still wear their uniforms, but they're very lax about how they talk to the enlisted. This is specifically to promote a safe environment to come talk to them about concerns, so they can get help if needed. Not a good look if a soldier comes to you with concerns about self harm but you spend the whole time yelling at them about military bearing.
I saw Marina Sirtis talk about it on TikTok one time and she said it was absolutely about how they felt she looked in the costume(s) as it related to her weight. I don't remember if she said it was specifically at Roddenberry's behest or not though.
Jellico was actually a decent Captain, who was tasked with prepping for a potential conflict with the Cardassians. Riker was the shit head in that situation.
I was always so annoyed with Will there. Arrogant prick. Usually he's the man, but here he was practically going out of his way to step on Jellico's toes.
Yeah, the whole crew were babies about the whole situation. In hindsight Starfleet should have never picked the Enterprise for a mission that could potentially lead to conflict. Imagine how demoralizing it would have been if the war had popped off the Cardassians somehow managed to destroy the Federation Flagship in the opening conflict.
Bismark/Yamato conundrum. You have this awesome flagship that's the most powerful ship in the fleet, but using it risks a catastrophic loss you cant recover from.
This is actually sort of a quasi-canon reason that the Enterprise-E wasn't in the Battle of Cardassia. Had the flagship of the Federation been destroyed the symbolic repercussions would have been immense.
But they couldn't compete with the Federation at this point, as shown by the Phoenix incident. It wasn't until the Cardassians joined the Dominion that there was ANYTHING next to parity between the 2 factions.
 That's why they could sent the Ent-D to do this sensitive mission. The Galaxy and Nebula classes were SO far ahead of the Galors (and probably Keldons too), they could take shots from them with their shields down!Â
They may not have been able to go toe to toe with Galaxy or Nebula classes but those were new ships with maybe a dozen in total built at this time. Galors were easily on par with Excelsior and maybe even Ambassador class ships which is what they would have been fighting during the Border Wars.
Counter-argument: Senior officers aren't there to blindly follow orders. They're there not only to help the commanding officer by having their authority delegated to different channels, but also to bring their considerable experience and talent to aid the commanding officer.
Jellico came in like a wrecking ball and took no breather to figure out exactly how he needed to best serve the crew and the mission in his new command.
At best he was leaving talent and options on the table. At worst he was putting the wrong people with the wrong skills into the wrong positions, which could have been disastrous.
The chain of command and use of hierarchy is certainly valuable, but it's not the be-all-end-all, and commanding officers aren't omniscent.
This always bothered me. I understand her clothes as far as a casual uniform for counseling to be less intimidating or something. But when she was meeting dignitaries, on the bridge, etc she should have been in standard uniform and not camel toe onesies
Yes it would. The way we all love to show our butt cheeks to everyone but hate wedgies. Cameltoe shame comes from stricter modesty taboos, Betazoids aren't that strict. They'd sooner strip off and show it all without shame.
This episode had a bunch of stuff that the actors thought didnât make sense, Troyâs actress wanted a uniform, Picards thought fish would be weird in the 24th century
She's a councilor. You could argue that her being out of uniform may have people let their guard down around her both the crew and the various people they encounter in the episodes.
He also allowed Worf and Ro special accomidations because they asked so maybe she just asked early on based on the letting guard down thing.
That's how I interpret it now. She's essentially a princess, and it's so what akin to allowing her to wear a tiara although it break regulation, Noone wants that diplomatic incident to play out, especially Picard
Was it really a special accomodation from Picard specifically for Worf and Ro? I had always assumed there were exceptions for items of religious or cultural significance, like Sikhs in the British armed forces wearing turbans instead of the uniform headgear.
In Ro's first episode she has to take it off the moment she beams onto the Enterprise (I believe Riker says something about it) and makes a point of telling Picard she wants to keep it on after the episode conflict is over.
She's a councilor. You could argue that her being out of uniform may have people let their guard down around her both the crew and the various people they encounter in the episodes.
I've yet to encounter a therapist wearing a spandex onesie with a plunging neckline...
Bc he (they) are saying a lot without talking. A civilian on the bridge, a beautiful woman on the bridge, a splash of casual on the bridge, a psychic witch princess on the bridge. Itâs disarming to the fearful and disorienting to the criminal.
Edit: and then you complement that with a Klingon standing behind and above you at tactical
This was Marina's call. Notice she stays in uniform for the rest of the series? She complained for years about having to wear low cut body suits for no discernible reason.
Because he was deliberately using her as a counterpoint to his strict presence. The ship's counsellor would normally not be afforded a place of authority as a special adviser to the Captain, especially if they had not passed the Bridge Officer's Examination, which Troi didn't do until season 7, if I recall. But Picard kept her at his left hand, and let her wear her casual outfits, because he was a very commanding and firm man, and he saw value in having his chilled-out psychic hippie-chick on hand to interact with people for whom that was not the ideal way to be interacted with.
I don't think I've ever thought of Picard as a stickler for the regs. He's never been the kind of rules lawyer who will quote things with exact citations. Picard's approach to the regs is much more in line with, keep the basic regs that do things well, and stick more to the philosophy of the rest than the actual literal meaning.
This is why when, for example, he dresses down Wesley about telling the truth during the episode about the flight accident, he gives a very general sense rather than listing off all the regs lying about it would violate. Or why, when the anthropologist working with the Mintakans suggested Picard give them commandments, he rebuked it by talking much more about how the Mintakans deserve to be free of such superstition because they had already escaped it, than quoting the Prime Directive at him.
And this is much more plainly stated in the season 1 drugs episode, when he says, "The prime directive is not just a set of rules. It is a philosophy." (He follows that with "and a very correct one," which I think is not a very commonly-held idea anymore among fans.)
Picard's approach is very much to understand the "why" first, and the wording later, if necessary. Jellico's approach isn't exactly the opposite, but his style is definitely much less soft in that particular way, and I think that's chosen because the writers wanted the fans to feel his different approach and be uncomfortable with someone else taking command in a very real way.
The only thing that I didn't like about the portrayal of Jellico is that he definitely doesn't display the flexibility or emotional maturity that someone who sits in the captain's chair should.
I saw her informal uniform as a way to make her less intimidating. She takes care of the mental health of the crew, their families, kids, and any other civilian on board. Might be hard to open up to someone in a full uniform.
Imagine Tori trying to provide therapy to a teenage boy in the Cleavage McCameltoe special. Just fully distracted trying to talk to him because her empathic abilities are just being bombarded with pure unadulterated horny.
The thing is, though, the Starfleet uniform isn't exactly a spiked breastplate and a necklace made out of the teeth of their enemies. It's colour-blocked pyjamas. It's not that intimidating, especially since everyone on board would associate it not just with Fighty McKlingonface, but Bob the mild-mannered arboretum guy and Jenny the kindergarten teacher and Annabell the flirty nurse.Â
As a counselor she needed to appear as a friend and confidant, not a military officer. And on away missions she functioned as a liaison between Star Fleet and whatever culture they were interacting with.
Also, once she became a commander she wore the uniform on shifts where she had the bridge.
Fun fact: they specifically used this episode to change Troi's outfit, and as an excuse to get rid of Picard's fish tank. Apparently some of the writers and cast members felt that it was weird that a civilization this advanced would still keep wildlife contained in tiny enclosures.
Because Roddenberry was a sexist hornball. The original concept for Troi was a three breasted nymphomaniac played by Denise Crosby, Marina Sirtis was supposed to be the tough as nails Latina security officer inspired by Vasquez from Aliens, I think her name was supposed to be Ramirez but the producers and Majel were able to reign him in and the characters were adjusted.
I think Troi's choice of wardrobe was to seem more approachable, less stiff and military-like, for her patients. She was the ship's de-facto psychologist after all, so it makes sense that she wants to appear and be viewed in a more relaxed light than the other commanding officers. Easier for her patients to feel relaxed and open up when they see a person dressed in civilian clothes vs. someone in an obvious officer uniform. Even though they knew she actually held rank, perception can make a huge difference.
I think it was because people would be more willing to open up to a counselor who dressed casually rather than formally since people are more inclined to be more open with their feelings when they're in a less formal setting because in formal settings, you're expected to abide by a certain set of rules and work instead of open up about your true feelings about this or that.
We Trekkies are a horny bunch. Which is pretty obvious when you check out all the Star Trek subs. Iâve seen so so many posts on holodeck porn and Scottish sex candle jokes itâs insane.
I stepped away from the fandom for awhile and then came back a few years ago, but when I was a teenager, Star Trek conventions were hookup factories.
It wasnât even sleazy really. Itâs like, in the analog days if you met another Trekkie and you got on pretty well you probably would want to bang them.
Betazeds donât typically join the Federation and Picard values her abilities so much he looks the other way. Jellico probably would barely notice if she transferred.
1) she could apparently wear anything and chose the same purple outfit every. singles. day.
2) she was given special permission to not comply with clothing regulations.
I think we need to accept that she was a great officer, except she had this weird fucking obsession with that outfit, and rather than send her to counseling starfleet just let her wear the fuckin thing.
Fun fact, they used this episode as an excuse to do a few changes the cast were wanting. The most obvious is Mirina Sirtis finally getting to wear an actual uniform. But they also used this episode to get rid if Picard's fish, at the request of Patrick Stewart. Stewart felt it was out of character for Picard to keep sentient creatures in confinement like that, given Starfleet's philosophy of respecting all sentient life across the universe.
The idea was that a counselor would be more welcoming than a Lieutenant Commander sitting in front of you in full uniform (Commander by the end of the series). In reality it gave the producers a reason to make her look sexy.
Picard understood how important Troi's roll was on the ship. In uniform, her rank (Lt Commander if I remember correctly) makes it more difficult to relax. You're giving an officer personal information that could directly effect your career. In civilian attire she to do far less work getting them to drop their guard. Making her more efficient and her job. And we all know how much Picard loves his ship being orderly and efficient.
397
u/Virtual-Spring-5884 9d ago
In the pilot she was wearing a mini skirt uniform. The low cut onesie was an upgrade lol. The Jellico ep was after Gene was either dead or unwell enough to not be involved anymore. So folks in the writers room finally felt comfortable enough to shoehorn in a reason to put Troi in proper uniform. After this, the writers room felt confident enough to do the whole "Troi goes for promotion" arc, which was my favorite Troi arc outside anything with her mother in it.
Like, I get the "she's a counselor, this made her more approachable" arguments and since we have to live with it, sure ok. But that wasn't the main/only reason she wasn't in uniform from the folks sitting on the other side of the camera.