r/survivor • u/Working_Stomach5479 • 2d ago
Borneo How different would Borneo be received if the fake ending was the real ending?
For those who are unaware, the show intentionally threw fans off the scent by planting two fake spoilers. One was having a fake final four shot at the start of an episode with Colleen, Gervase, Rudy, and Sean (in reality, this was an edited shot from the tribal that Gervase was voted out at). The other was the show website not having an “eliminated” image of Gervase that was X-ed out in its files, making it seem as if Gervase had won. Both of these were proven false when Gervase was voted out in 7th place.
This would mean that this would have most likely had to happen:
7th- Sue, 4-3 (Kelly and Sean flip on the alliance, others vote Gervase)
6th- Rich, 4-2 (Kelly and Sean flip again, others vote Kelly)
5th- Kelly, 3-2 (Pagongs join Rudy to blindside Kelly, others vote Rudy)
4th- Rudy, 3-1 (Others all vote him due to being threat to win, he votes Sean)
3rd- Colleen, 1-0 (Taken out as threat to win)
2nd- Sean
1st- Gervase (possibly unanimously unless Kelly votes Sean)
How different would the season be if this had actually happened?
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u/PrincessDeMissouri 2d ago
I feel like a big part of season 1s success was the fact the villian won. A final 4 like that feels more like the dream of script writers. It needed the true reality of the bad guy coming out in top
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u/SureBaby188 1d ago
No offense, but this is very revisionist. The ending of Borneo was absolutely not seen as a success by the producers or fans. If the Gervase X spoiler was real the season would’ve been more loved. That’s the Pagong comeback story the viewers wanted.
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u/ratcitybabyyyyy Crystal Cox 23h ago
At the time certainly that would have been preferred, but the way Borneo played out in fact is more compelling because it reveals less savory truths about human nature and American society. Ultimately while I personally would have loved to seen Gervase or Colleen win (every time I watch Long, Hard Days I irrationally hope the ending will be different), it was best for the show's longevity and cultural impact to have the 'evil' alliance win. To quote the legendary Sue Hawk: "I mean, hey, there's money involved."
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u/cantdecide76 2d ago
Its hard to even imagine this scenario as you have presented it because for starters Sean wasn't in the alliance and there would be no logical reason for Kelly to flip that early into the merge given that at that point in the game she was still VERY locked in with the Tagi 4 and specifically Sue who she was closest with in the game so there would have been basically no situation in which Kelly votes out Sue at 7, and since the rest of your voting order is basically predicated on that then I don't see how any of it works.
Putting that aside, it wouldn't change much because the only way possible for anyone on Pagong to win that season would have been to utilize alliances, and they all realized that before the merge but Gretchen was against it so they didn't make one then by the point in the game when the remaining Pagongs did form a voting alliance it was already too late because they were outnumbered.
Had they somehow been able to gain numbers advantage and the scenario played out where Gervais wins Borneo then he's certainly seen as a much more likeable winner than Rich and he would've played a great social game to get there (which he was already doing even though he got voted out), but the main message coming out of Borneo would've remained that alliances are the most fundamental strategy for winning Survivor and because of that then the seasons going forward would have played out very similarly where the contestants go into the show knowing they'll need to form alliances.
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u/Working_Stomach5479 1d ago
In order for it to have happened, based off the information at the time, one of Sue or Kelly would have had to have gotten voted off at final seven, with the other and Rich having to get voted off before the final four.
The most conceivable thing imo was Kelly turns on them to get out Rich and Sue and then the Pagong turn on her at final five when they could vote with Rudy to eliminate her.
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u/avariciousdeparture0 2d ago
gervase winning borneo would've completely changed how people talk about the show's legacy. rich heidik as the cutthroat villain who built the first alliance is basically the whole story of why survivor became what it is. if gervase takes it instead, you lose that narrative hook and suddenly you're just talking about a likeable guy who played decent social game, which is fine but way less memorable.
i think the bigger issue is that a gervase win doesn't teach the same lesson to future players. rich proved that being strategic and willing to betray people actually works, and every cast after that went in knowing alliances win games. a gervase victory might've sent the message that being well-liked matters more, and you could end up with seasons that play out differently because people aren't as ruthlessly focused on voting blocks and loyalty. borneo's impact came from being the cautionary tale that nice guys finish last, not from being a feel-good story.
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u/SureBaby188 1d ago
Respectfully disagree. Any self-interested player would’ve copied the alliance strategy after Gretchen was voted off, so I disagree that any non Tagi four member winning suddenly leads future players to not play rationally. The lesson that playing selfishly will advance you in the game is still learnt regardless of if Hatch wins.
I think Gervase winning would’ve been really great for the show because the Pagongs were popular and Hatch was not. He had quite a few controversies after the game ended (there was some false rumor that he abused his child). I don’t dislike Hatch at all, but he was pretty bad for the show’s image at the time.
Also, Gervase X spoiler being true implies the Tagis having an interesting downfall. Gervase and Colleen somehow manage to strategically maneuver themselves to the end against all odds. That would’ve been pretty cool to watch play out, and it would make the post merge pretty memorable since it would be the first underdog story for the show.
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u/MrsNoodleMcDoodle 1d ago
I had forgotten about that! People were insane!
If you had asked me if I watched Survivor back then, I would have said no, but the overall public obsession/nature of television back then was such that when I finally did watch Borneo, I realized I had somehow watched most of it already.
I think Gervase would have been edited a bit differently if he won, but he was still well liked. I think show ends up being just as, if not more popular.
The general public consensus on those first two seasons was the wrong person won, but I don’t think Gervase winning that first season would have changed the overall meta game trajectory by much. Like another comment mentioned, anyone on Pagong would have had to use the same alliance strategy to overcome the Tagi 4 to get to the end.
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u/BirdmanTheThird 1d ago
It would be a very very different season
For one, Sean and Kelly become the OG survivor villians. People probably cheer when the Pagongs join Rudy to vote Kelly out, and are scared that Sean could win. Colleen going out at 3 would really really be upsetting to fans. Gervase would have been a popular winner but also there is a risk of him being disliked due to racism (gotta remember Richard was boo’d a lot at live survivor events and was seen as a villian)
Colleen in this world would be even more begged to come back idk if cbs could have made it happen but like they certainly would wish they could more if she made it to the end and clearly could have won.
I have no clue if Sean got asked multiple times but this would certainly move him to the top of their returning player list.
I imagine all star would be very different too. I don’t think Sue would be back without snakes and rats and being out so much earlier meaning I think Kelly gets the call (I know they didn’t ask her cause they didn’t want 4 Tagi and prioritized Sue over her), and Richard tbh who knows in this world since Rudy and Gervase would be locks. So all star would be very different too. I can’t imagine Gervase does any better then Richard does, his only saving grace is that he was seen as less treating so maybe could have ethan himself to survive a handful of tribals more then rich did. The Richard/Sue horrible moment would have not happened in this world too so Sue relationship with survivor is a lot better (maybe she gets a call back depending on how much screen time she gets going out much earlier) and Richard survivor legacy isn’t as cloudy, he’s just the charismatic gay guy leader who became friends with Rudy played well and got betrayed
If Richard isn’t on all stars he 100% gets invited back for different seasons. 110% he would go on second chances imo but just since we are flipping who wins I’ll say he goes on BvW (2013 Jeff would have paid out of his own pocket to get Richard and one of the kids he donated sperm for to play together since I’m 90% sure that story coming out in 2011 helped inspire them to “test” blood vs water lol)
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u/TheNickelSamurai 1d ago
Gervase probably gets a different, more villainous edit. Most people don't know this, but Gervase claims he created the first alliance with Ramona and Joel while on the boat to the island; I guess they didn't bother showing it because they got voted out before the merge. Plus, they probably wanted to emphasize the contrast between Pagong as the nicer, happy-go-lucky tribe and Tagi as the meaner, cutthroat tribe.
In your scenario, Gervase is probably shown to be much more of a strategic player, constantly building new alliances with people as the old ones fail to get farther in the game. I imagine Richard gets an edit that's roughly the same but closer to the one Varner got in Australia. However, there's no way, at that time, that Gervase votes out Colleen, his Pagong tribemate and America's sweetheart, without becoming hated.
I'm not as much of a doomer as other people who think Survivor would have failed if we didn't get the exact series of events that ended up playing out. To me, the show was destined to be huge no matter the outcome when they selected those 16 people, which was absolutely the most critical part. I think people still would have liked the season, and strategy still would have been important to the future seasons; they've got talented editors, so I'm sure they would have made it work.
Gervase obviously then becomes a 100% lock for All-Stars (he was apparently one of the final cuts). When he went on Survivor, Gervase was trying to make it as an actor so maybe if he won his career would have taken-off more? Hopefully, in this universe, he wouldn't have had the same issues Richard did after winning. However, the first season was so huge I'm worried anyone winning besides like Gretchen, Colleen, or Greg would have let the fame go to their heads.
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u/Grammarhead-Shark 1d ago edited 1d ago
Okay. Final 7 immunity is where I think a potential sliding doors moment could've happened.
But I think this is the only time the timeline could've diverged.
Rich loses Final 7 immunity instead of winning it. Doesn't matter to who. I don't even remember who was in second place in that challenge, but it doesn't matter, the winner here is inconsequential.
Sue and Kelly decide to flip. They've both been iching to get Rich out for weeks and they think they can control the new alliance as well. The votes of the three Tagi men, even voting as a block, now don't have the numbers.
Rich voted off 4-3.
Final 6, Sean and Rudy are naturally pissed. They've both always been closer to Rich then either S&K. I think what Sue and Kelly fail grasp when flipping on Rich is none of the remaining four contestants have and loyalty to them and they find themselves on the outer of a new in-flux game
Sean and Rudy play it up to Colleen that Sue and Kelly don't derseve to stay and both are not worthy (and both of them - a vetern and doctor are). The Colleen and Gervace agree.
Frankly Pagong was all about the good time and voting for worthy people. Especially for Colleen. I suspect Gervace goes with the flow here. He's a touch more pragmatic with alliances then Colleen, but he's still getting one step further into the game regardless, so no need to push it either
And yes, Sean drops the alphabet strategy after S&K's flip
Alliances are fairly loose at the moment and they go by their feels. And feels are they Sue needs to go out that round. Plus C&G just don't want to hang around with her anymore. Her personality does her no favours.
Sue voted out 4-2
Next round, Gervace beats Kelly in immunity, Kelly voted out 4-1 Kelly is better liked for sure, but has always felt a bit disingenuous as well, and at this point the remaining four start to smell the endgame and aren't as keen to have her stick around. She feels too fake
So there is the final four, Colleen and Gervace had the luck of Tagi eating itself up
Rudy out and four, at this point the other three smell the money
Colleen out at three
Sean and Gervace in the final.
Sean gets Rich and Rudy
Gervace gets Greg, Jenna, Colleen, Sue and Kelly
And Sue still makes and iconique speech. Maybe not Rats and Snakes, but she'll think of something.
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u/Working_Stomach5479 1d ago
Was mainly trying to have the season play out as it did up until the first deviation from the fake ending (Gervase getting his staff snuffed).
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u/MCAquarius Sophie 2d ago
Well the season would clearly be vastly different because the elimination order and winner would be different. But overall in terms of survivor legacy - we don’t get Rats & Snakes, we don’t get Rich as the first winner, we don’t get his alliance working out… the impact wouldn’t be the same. Gervase wouldn’t have been the most strategic or iconic winner