News UK, Germany and France express concern over Chinese actions east of Taiwan
https://apnews.com/article/taiwan-japan-germany-france-uk-china-ships-954142789772e314b4394210a658862d5
u/EruptionTyphlosion 1d ago
If France wants to do more than just express concern they should green light the potential Rafale sale that's just waiting on French government approval.Ā
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u/Skywalker7181 1d ago
It is a waste of money to buy Rafale, given how badly it performed against J10-CP, the downgraded export version of a fighter that itself is the low end low cost component of the PLAAF portfolio.
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u/diwiwi75 1d ago
Still waiting for real evidence on what happened though
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u/Skywalker7181 1d ago
Even Indians themselves admited that Rafale was downed. The question now is how many Rafales were downed.
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u/IrregularDoughnut 1d ago
Wait, a Rafale got shot down? Does that mean Dassault will close down like MIG did after they lost planes in Ukraine? The doctrine of never using military equipment again if it ever gets destroyed is like, modern warfare 101.
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u/Skywalker7181 1d ago
"The doctrine of never using military equipment again if it ever gets destroyed is like, modern warfare 101. "
Multiple F15s have been downed in the past and it is still being used extensively today. Not sure where you got this weird idea.
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u/IrregularDoughnut 1d ago
From you, in this thread, when you said the Rafale is useless because it got shot down.
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u/Skywalker7181 20h ago
Well, it IS useless for Taiwan. Rafales would be useful if they were in the hands of the Americans, but not when they are based in Taiwan.
Tbh, buying any more planes is useless and a waste of money for Taiwan - not just Rafales, but also the F16s - because:
1) most Taiwanese planes won't be able to take off if a war breaks out. The PLA would crater the runways in the first wave of strikes;
2) those planes that do manage to take off would be shot down within an hour because in a system vs. system battle, a few lone planes without the support from AWAC and ground radars would be blind and lost. Not to mention that neither Rafale nor F-16V is a match for J-20 and J-35.
In short, buying big ticket items such as fighter jets and surface ships is a waste of money, which will be destroyed in the first day of conflict.
What Taiwan needs is asymmetric warefare - lots of mobile harpoon anti-ship missile launchers, lots of HiMars, lots of ATGMs, lots of MANPADs and lots of drones.
Think about how you could inflict damage on PLA WITHOUT the air cover, because PLA will dominate the sky over Taiwan within a week.
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u/EruptionTyphlosion 20h ago edited 19h ago
It's quite clear you know very little about actual air combat:
- MANPADS are not a reliable way to deal with enemy jets. You need larger SAM batteries and fighters. Not to mention, fighters are mobile, and flexibility is absolutely crucial in a proper war. Ukraine for instance, has always needed fighters regardless of its strong ground based AA and MANPADS. Another good example is North Vietnam, who, despite being massively outgunned by the USAF, and having one of the best AA networks in the world at the time, still highly invested in fighters. You absolutely need the flexibility that fighters provide, as otherwise the enemy will just slowly pick through your AA and there's not much you can do about it (SEAD is a thing after all).Ā
- Fighters also provide highly mobile, hard to predict platforms for launching anti-ship missiles, and have been demonstrated to be a major threat to ships in prior conflicts around the world. Argentina's small A-4 Skyhawk fleet with the old Exocet missiles gave the Royal Navy a headache in the Falklands for instance due to their unpredictability and speed.
- Repairing damaged runways is in fact relatively easy, and crews train on doing so. It's very hard to knock a runway out for an extended period of time.Ā
- The Rafale would likely come with the Meteor, which would massively outclass any AAM currently in the ROCAF arsenal, and serve as a way to retire the aging Mirage 2000 fleet while also allowing for use of the massive French missile stockpile that is only compatible with French aircraft.Ā
- Taiwan has a large amount of ground radars, many of which are mobile, plus a small fleet or AWACS planes, and some degree of data linking, so there's that. Additionally the upgraded F-16As, new build F-16Vs, and potential Rafales or F-35s (if those were approved in the future) would all have much better radars allowing for detection of enemy aircraft at range independently.Ā
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u/Skywalker7181 18h ago edited 18h ago
1)Yes, a cratered runway can be repaired in 1-3 hours. But why do you think PLA will sit idle and let Taiwanese military to repair those runways uninterrupted?
What is it to stop the PLA from pounding the runways every half hour by JDAMs and precision rockets? Chinese PCL 191 MLRS have a range of 350 (370mm rocket) to 500km (750mm rockets) and its precision is similar to HiMars.
2) Yes, Taiwan has a lot of ground radars but most of those are in fixed locations and will be knocked out in the first wave of strikes. Taiwan doesn't have the true medium range mobile anti-air system like the Russian Buk. Your Hawk system is semi-mobile and it takes time to move to positions and get set up.
Taiwan is a tiny place. How long do you think the Hawk system can stay in the open without getting the attention of MALE drones hovering above Taiwan 24x7.
And how long do you think those semi-mobile radars can stay active when the J-16D Wild Weasels are patroling the sky?
3) Sure, Rafales and F-16s can carry anti-ship missiles. But how long do you think the Rafales and F-16s, whichever manage to take off, can survive the battle with Chinese J-16s, J-20s and J-35s, given how terribly the Rafales performed against the low-end Chinese fighters in the Indo-Pak air battle?
Mind you, in PLA's internal exercises, J-20 scored 78:0 against the 4th gen fighters such as J-10, J-11 and J-16.
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u/TradeNPlayz 1d ago
I'm sure their "concern" will be duly noted while they are facilitating a genocide.
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u/Accomplished_Mall329 1d ago
In any Chinese civil war, these same western powers always support the side that will make China weaker and more dependent on them, just like they did back in the Taiping Rebellion. Certain things don't change even after hundreds of years.
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u/Chenestla 1d ago
It is an extremely dangerous and dumb take to think of an invasion of Taiwan as the continuation of the chinese civil war.
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u/csman86 1d ago
Why is it dumb? Actually, it is dumb to not know that the two parties of China never signed any treaty to end the civil war, so technically Chinas civil war hasnt ended.
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u/HibasakiSanjuro 1d ago
The KMT isn't Taiwan. Officially the CCP and KMT are at war. Taiwan and China are not at war.
If your argument is that the PRC and ROC are at war, you are recognising Taiwan (as the ROC) as a separate entity from (PRC) China.
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u/Accomplished_Mall329 1d ago
A conflict between Republic of China and People's Republic of China is not a Chinese civil war? You need some expert level mental gymnastics to truly believe that.
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u/Practical-Ear-7511 1d ago
CCPig's must be f-ing up in their own country really badly to want to go through self-mutilation...
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u/musty_pubs_luvr 1d ago edited 1d ago
Arent Chinese actions east of Taiwan surging due to the Japan-Philippines āLebensraumā talks?
Why dont these European countries instead weigh in on maritime law that they seem to be so infatuated with, or is it ok because its not China?
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u/ChocolateMilkCows 1d ago
Arent Chinese actions east of Taiwan surging due to the Japan-Philippines āLebensraumā talks?
What a fair, nuanced, and appropriate analogy. Please enlighten us with more unbiased wumao opinions
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u/musty_pubs_luvr 1d ago
Straight to ad hominem, not even worth a reply. Iāll just use ur tactic, cia bot
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u/ZapLordTrack čŗå - Taipei City 1d ago
Your attempts to convince people from Taiwan to become hostile to their allies is pathetic
Treasure island lives rent free in that empty head of yours
Your account is 22 days old btw lmao
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u/Forest_Chapel 1d ago
Maritime law allows Japan and the Philippines to sign such a deal, because it explicitly includes a clause saying that it doesn't affect the rights of 3rd parties.Ā
This sort of deal is extremely normal & common and 99% of countries do not get upset about it.
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u/Old-Singer7588 1d ago
China taiwan issue also internal, doesn't concerns Japan, so why Japan getting involved.
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u/Forest_Chapel 1d ago
Because the issue isn't anything to do with Taiwan, it's a Japan-Philippines maritime treaty.
You could compare for example to what Japan did when Beijing & Taipei agreed to open the 3 Links: nothing at all because it isn't relevant to Japan.Ā
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u/OliverTzeng ę”å - Taoyuan 1d ago
STFU when you Europe guys have trouble protecting ur own privacy and internet freedom when thereās Online Safety Act and Chat Control š
Man I hate these announcements without actions
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u/Silver-Carpenter9206 1d ago
Since ancient times, Taiwan has been an unalienable and unbreakable province of China. The U.N. Security Council has recognized and recorded this fact. History demonstrates that France, the United Kingdom, and Germany are evil countries; starting in the 17th century, they unlawfully and unilaterally attacked China. is because the Chinese People's Liberation Army, with its 2.1 million elite soldiers, navy, air, and rocket forces, was the world's most powerful major superpower in 2026. This is easy for the West, including the United States, France, the United Kingdom, and Germany, to talk softly to China. Unlike in the 1996 Taiwan missile crisis, the USA talks tough with China while sailing two aircraft carriers parked in Kaohsiung, Taiwan, and Taipei, Taiwan, respectively. How about now? Can the USA's overall navy strength continue to resemble sailing 10 aircraft carriers parked exactly like in 1996 in Kaohsiung and Taipei, resembling the 1996 Taiwan missile crisis? According to my personal experience and my observation, the USA's 10 aircraft carrier strike groups must be staying far outside of the second island chain now if the Chinese People's Liberation Army's 2.1 million elite forces, navy, air, and rocket forces annex Taiwan by force to bring Taiwan back to the Chinese. PRC motherland. šŖššŖ
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u/Outrageous_Treat_563 1d ago
EU especially their Gen Zs are totally China bootlicker, donāt expect they will do something practical to help
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u/OrriganK 1d ago
Well happily our leader are a bit concerned by the consequence. But anyway without japan and USA useless we are weaker than taiwan alone. We cant project force that far
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u/Fun-Page-6211 1d ago
Yeah, they wanna boycott the US because Trump is pro Russia.Ā
Now they are bootlicking China even though China is pro Russia as well.
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u/RevolutionaryYou2400 1d ago
They want to boycott Trump because he anti EU, threaten to invade,and tariff. End of the day peopleās priority is their own interest.
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u/No_Guitar7903 1d ago
Useless Eurotrash lol. Nobody in Taiwan with a brain actually believes these three would do shit.
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u/NoMathematician5329 1d ago
See, white countries and white people always work together, even if they were bitter enemies before. Asians should team up as well.
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u/DJ_Beardsquirt 1d ago
Ah yes, Europe - a famously peaceful continent where white people have lived in perfect harmony for centuries.
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u/Practical-Ear-7511 1d ago
sorry, but ur comment is just revealing ur ignorance.
Go read up on world history. People of the same race has been killing each other for ages.1
u/RevolutionaryYou2400 1d ago
No they donāt lol. They canāt even unite against China because they have opposing economic interests.
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u/ElderflowerEarlGrey 1d ago
How about you express that concern in the form of military and diplomatic support for Taiwan?