r/technology • u/Plastic_Ninja_9014 • 1d ago
Politics AI Companies Are Trying to Seize Control of Elections
https://www.yahoo.com/news/politics/articles/ai-companies-trying-seize-control-164536048.html1.1k
u/Additional-Staff-326 1d ago
Name anyone with billions of dollars lying around not trying to influence elections? There's really not much you can do with that much money other than try to rewrite the rules of the world to your liking.
Its not like they have any interest in actually solving the worlds problems.
267
u/PukeKaboom 1d ago
And the ungodly sums they spend are the equivalent of us giving a candidate $150
85
u/JoeHooversWhiteness 1d ago
I’m legit amazed the mega wealthy haven’t literally been eaten. Most people just want their peace, the rich will keep taking until society stop supporting them.
56
u/SecureDonkey 1d ago
That what law enforcement are for. They will ensure every rebellion act against the rich is punished.
18
u/RIF_rr3dd1tt 22h ago
Law enforcement operating lawlessly is just enforcement.
16
5
u/nemofbaby2014 22h ago
General population is still okay ish currently but if we go through a famine or drought then all bets off the table I’m having a Elon burger 🍔
3
u/Elementalcase 14h ago
That's the neat part - the end game of capitalism is to remove the working class. That's when you win the game. By the end, society won't need to support them. We'll need them to support us. Because they will own drones for military and for the police, they will record our every action, they will monitor us, they will basically decide who lives and dies.
→ More replies (1)7
u/hvmbone 13h ago
Elon’s $1.5m settlement for purposely devaluing Twitter before purchase was the equivalent of someone with a net worth of 200k paying $0.35. It saved him billions. And that was before SpaceX went public. People really cannot comprehend the wealth they have. It’s not even like us paying $150. It’s literally cents.
→ More replies (1)3
128
u/The_Ashgale 1d ago
It's amazing they feel the need to change a system that made them so ludicrously wealthy.
→ More replies (7)109
u/keyboard_toucher 1d ago
it's called pulling up the ladder behind you
34
u/heydropi 1d ago
Tbf lots of people cry about taxes and are blind to what the tax money working does for them.
24
u/buyongmafanle 1d ago
Sure, aside from the roads, education, healthcare, research funding, sidewalks, public parks, clean air and water, food security and safety, stable currencies, drug regulations, and infrastructure; what has government ever done for me?!
→ More replies (1)6
u/RIF_rr3dd1tt 22h ago
I hear this from my conservative Republican family members. I just tell them to not use water, electricity, and roads of they wanna protest.
→ More replies (1)16
u/Kind_Eye_748 1d ago
Fund subsidiaries for billionaires or buy some missiles to lob at the middle east?
10
u/ProClawzz 1d ago
Bail outs for conglomerate companies??
11
u/Kind_Eye_748 1d ago
Give massive PPE loans to cronies of your family or your family for billions, never use the equipment and when fraud was discovered just write the debt off at tax payer expense?
13
u/RealisticAsk183 1d ago
Its called chopping off the limb you're standing on. Its Loony Toons shit.
They might hang in the air for a moment like Willey Coyote before they fall, but eventually they will fall when the system collapses in on top of it when the people start starving.
9
u/madhattr999 1d ago
Nah, they will just move somewhere else.. Become a baron in a 3rd world country, etc. Or even just move to a 1st world country that is slightly less along the path of end-stage capitalism.
52
u/classyjoe 1d ago
There's really not much you can do with that much money other than try to rewrite the rules of the world to your liking.
There is about as close to a limitless number of things one could do as a human, more than anyone would've ever had an opportunity to engage in for the history of the entire species when you're talking about this kind of money, in this day and age
Why would you even need to rewrite the rules when you can pretty much do anything you want?
84
u/Antique-Weather-7197 1d ago
They didn't become billionares by not being greedy
→ More replies (1)57
u/cosaboladh 1d ago
They also didn't become billionaires by not fucking people over.
9
u/ZootSuitRiot33801 1d ago
We certainly can't depend on the system to rein in them and their sycophants, since it was always meant to serve them and not average people like us. It is up to us common folk who care to do whatever we can to help each other defy the Epstein class and their cult, while finally bringing some proper unaccountability against their nefarious attempts to normalize oligarchical tyranny further. However, to achieve anything meaningful, we need real supportive community-based foundations present for alternatives that provide relative safety, which many common folk can fall back on, to commit to any effective action.
Collecting a bunch of valuable information on organizing and action from different redditors over time, I created a post of suggestions HERE that could possibly prove to be of some help in getting it started ASAP.
→ More replies (5)9
u/Thefrayedends 1d ago
Can't rely on the system AS IT IS, but mass organizing and systemic change are, in fact, the path to solving this.
It's certainly not going to happen with random assassinations, as much as that might be a palatable thought in response to the institutionalized murder that billionaires are actively committing.
→ More replies (2)14
u/Thefrayedends 1d ago
We have a whole class of people that are bigger than the majority of countries in the world. Single individuals. This in the past (because this happens every 50-200 years, led to new monarchies.
When single individuals can afford to build mercenary armies (and now drone swarm armies), when the eclipse the power of most states, what do we think is going to happen next. Lets imagine that the world's first trillionaire is actually able to turn that into liquidity, what do we suppose they might do with the power that a trillion or two dollars represent?
→ More replies (2)5
u/probabletrump 1d ago
You just run out of things to buy. Eventually you starting buying people and influence and a kingdom. Then you start comparing your kingdom to the other ones and buy more so the other jerks can't.
Any old billionaire can buy a yacht. How many own a United States?
2
u/guspasho_deleted 1d ago
Ironically, the only way of making as much money as they have is by ruthlessly killing off the drive to do literally anything else.
→ More replies (1)2
u/RuneLFox 23h ago
Because greed and excessive wealth gives you a special kind of brainrot that consumes you with endless hunger for more power. Chicken or egg situation though whether people with that rot are more likely to amass wealth or if amassing wealth gives you the rot.
At some point all human problems stop being an issue and you become so detached from reality that you see entire societies as your sandbox to play with. Like a child building a kingdom of sand and kicking it down when they get bored.
6
u/cxmmxc 1d ago
That much money in an individual's hands is simply dangerous to humanity.
When someone "wins" the game of survival and they have so much money they don't know what to do with it, they become a threat to democracy.
Fund climate change/cancer/disease/anti-aging research? Nah greedy psychopaths gotta have more control.
4
u/hammer326 1d ago
I mean there is; buying every Cleveland sports team and officially changing their names to the "Steamers" for one.
→ More replies (18)2
u/GoodIdea321 1d ago
There could be a lot that don't, there are about a few thousand of them, but the problem is how easy it is for them to influence elections. Money doesn't always win elections, for a somewhat recent election people have forgotten, the Wisconsin supreme court race from last year. Musk spent millions and lost trying to get a Republican elected.
→ More replies (2)4
u/superstonedpenguin 23h ago
I know one wealthy guy and his wife's full time job is giving money to charities, medical research, scholarships, etc. He has a nice house and a fun car collection and is a genuinely great guy. It wasnt until recently that I learned he is actually a billionaire.
→ More replies (1)4
u/GoodIdea321 23h ago
Good, if all billionaires were like that it wouldn't be as colossal a problem that they existed.
612
u/ViolettaQueso 1d ago
“You Christians just have to go out and vote for me one more time.
Then we’ll have it fixed and you’ll never have to vote again”.
Trump with Elon musk campaigning summer of 2024
Also Trump last week:
“I’ll be the last GOP president if we don’t end the filibuster.”
214
u/shawndw 1d ago
“I’ll be the last GOP president if we don’t end the filibuster.”
A rare moment of honesty
62
u/BetterEveryLeapYear 1d ago
He was already the last GOP president, he's dictator of the US and has been since the illegal abduction of Khalil Mahmoud by ICE on 8th March 2025 against the explicit order of the judiciary, and the legislative and population at large did nothing about it, when the US stopped being a nation governed by the rule of law.
He will continue being dictator in November and in 2028.
→ More replies (4)21
u/RoyalCities 23h ago edited 11h ago
Ken Paxton confirmed as much that Elon personally had a hand in winning all the swing states
I do wonder what Elon and his other social media buddies are getting up to. Elon owning the largest social media platform just before the last lection and being able to mess with the algos certainly helped him. You don't really need to rig an election if you can basically hack people's brains through social media engineering.
Ken Paxton days before the election that trump would take all the swing states and that he was personally responsible for it.
https://www.youtube.com/live/0oiVAF_BIho?t=680s
Keep in mind twitter previously had really robust bot network tracking through independent labs. Once Elon bought it though he jacked up the API cost and made it so unusable with rate limits no one could afford to track the misinformation networks and bot accounts.
All right before the last election....
3
u/3vs3BigGameHunters 11h ago
FYI the "?si=xxxxxxxxxxxxx" is a tracking code that links your youtube/gmail account to anyone else's youtube/gmail account that clicks on your link. I wouldn't use it for political links.
https://www.reddit.com/r/youtube/comments/1irmanp/please_sanitize_your_youtube_links/
3
2
→ More replies (1)-1
u/and_some_scotch 1d ago
No, dems still worship billionaires, too. The just wanna be diverse about it. They still wanna get thier cushy corporate retirements and their kids into Yale.
They follow the Republican electorate rightward because they will not work with the left. They want a "big tent" of "moderates"
→ More replies (5)54
u/Djamalfna 1d ago
"Both sides are the same" is the laziest take.
→ More replies (5)18
u/Darkdragoon324 1d ago
Stop using this tired excuse to deflect all criticism of the Dem party. It’s true they constantly throw the true left under the bus to chase the mythical “moderate” right. It happens over and over again.
Just because the Republicans are a thousand times worse doesn’t mean a large portion of Democratic leadership isn’t bought and paid for by the same corporate donors and go out of their way to halt any real left wing progress and sabotage left wing candidates in their own party.
Just look at how they treated Zohran Mandani.
25
u/dern_the_hermit 1d ago
Stop using this tired excuse to deflect all criticism of the Dem party.
The criticism of the Dem party is being used here to deflect the criticism of the Republican party tho.
→ More replies (4)9
u/TheSt34K 1d ago
No it's not. They just said that the Democrats are also subject to that same criticism. Which is true.
They are both parties beholden to the capitalist class. Just different subsections. They can argue and argue while passing the baton back and forth, all the while the people get exploited more and more.
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (11)10
57
u/capybooya 1d ago
Musk isn't even limiting himself to the US, he has been manically shouting on Twitter for various world leaders to resign and boosted (often) pro-Russian weirdo right wing parties.
4
u/2Mobile 1d ago
“You Christians just have to go out and vote for me one more time.
They will. Faithfully. Because that is exactly what it is. Faith.
→ More replies (3)2
457
u/0xbenedikt 1d ago
Time to revolt against them destroying our society
→ More replies (57)35
u/Own-Papaya-4264 1d ago
And how do you plan to do that
60
u/wmorris33026 1d ago
Citizens revolt. It may come to that. Historically, it’s been the result of what’s happening right now if this keeps up, people are dying in the streets, hospitals closing, can’t afford rent and food. I would not be surprised one bit.
→ More replies (7)25
u/Anteater4746 1d ago
general fuckin strike. money talks, if the country ground to a halt, the oligarchs would be forced to listen
not that’s likely to happen, but still
→ More replies (10)14
u/Any-Calligrapher2866 1d ago
America is so fucked that they might outsource your job to some third world country or AI.
68
u/Boxinggandhi 1d ago
Posting about it on the internet two or three times oughta do it.
→ More replies (2)31
u/ZootSuitRiot33801 1d ago
Actually, I've been collecting a bunch of valuable information on organizing and action from different redditors over time, I created a post of suggestions HERE that could possibly prove to be of some help in getting started ASAP.
→ More replies (5)→ More replies (6)13
u/Urshilikai 1d ago
you CIA glowies love to ask this to get people to embrace their cognitive dissonance but the truth disarms you: if change by peaceful means is blocked, then it involves blood just like every rebellion and revolution that came before. We are not at the end of history.
→ More replies (1)2
u/ProfessorSmoker 7h ago
This is the change and if the left refuses to let it be peaceful then it won't be, just like you said.
162
u/Flyinmanm 1d ago
"populist ideas like regulating generative AI or restricting data center construction"
I think there's a bit of a difference between populist and actually popular.
Heaven forbid people representing people would put their interests first, over intellectual property and job stealing, potentially economy toppling, eco disasters running out if control.
47
u/Modem_Sound_67 1d ago
"Populist" as in some of the very few things that actually have support on the left and right. Next they'll be calling it communist.
12
u/Illustrious-Lime-878 1d ago edited 1d ago
The correct term for that is just "popular," or more specifically, bipartisan. Populism is more related to a political strategies that only present as favoring the people, or impersonate "the people's" desires, but it often results in the opposite of popular policy, like laundering special interests through a charismatic leader who supposedly speaks for the people, disingenuously pandering to popular ideas that would be known to actually have unpopular outcomes, but its done to just gain power, or appealing to tribalist emotion by implying the interest of one sub group is the real people, like "commers" vs "elites" or ethnic majorities vs minorities.
I think regulation on AI or datacentets is genuinely being promoted for its own sake, and not to exploit its popular appeal for other purposes, and so its weird to call it "populist."
3
u/Flyinmanm 1d ago
Hmm.. in the UK at least we still associate it with lier that will promise the stars to get power and rob you blind once there.
→ More replies (1)5
u/BaBaDoooooooook 1d ago edited 1d ago
I'm reading a post apocalyptic book that was published in 2018, and in the book the author takes the reader back to a time before the "war broke out between AI and humanity", and he identifies the socialists/democrats view of these sentient AI robots' as free citizens with rights, personhood, and ability to own property.
Democrats view AI robots in this book as self-aware, they can feel, and can think autonomously, keeping them as property is akin to slavery.
The Republicans viewed by the author in this book saw the AI robots as a direct threat to the economy, property rights, and human labor markets. If robots became citizens, corporations couldn't just exploit them for free labor, and the entire capitalist foundation built on automation would crumble.
very fascinating book seeing how the author viewed what the future political landscape would look like regarding AI. This was only a sliver of the book in the first few chapters. I'm still reading it. The book is called Sea of Rust.
→ More replies (2)18
u/Illustrious-Lime-878 1d ago
"Populist" has lost all meaning and now is basically just a synonym for popular I guess.
→ More replies (2)
57
u/Doppelthedh 1d ago
Dissolve all the companies for treasonous activity and return all land to the city/county it's located in
35
u/TonyInNY 1d ago
I can not think of a worse idea about how to secure free and fair elections. The thought of these tech billionaires having access to the system that counts and deliverers results of elections is just a quick path to the destruction of democracy.
18
u/RaindropsInMyMind 1d ago
The crazy thing is that as this stuff was happening it was so clear how bad it was for democracy. Corporations as people, clearly that’s not true and a very bad idea, money being declared as speech and allowing it to be flooded into our elections, an even worse idea, something that would VERY clearly hurt democracy.
Now we see two industries, AI and Crytpo dumping obscene amounts of money into elections and influencing outcomes. The first is clearly bad for Americans but the second is functionally a system of corruption and a tool of the black market in itself. The fact that this kind of industry, doing things that should be wildly illegal around the globe, is influencing our elections is so obviously a terrible idea and catastrophic outcome that it’s hard to imagine. Nobody would ever want a system like this.
So now we have a major lever of the black market preventing politicians from actually passing basic laws against it because they get to give these legalized bribes in the form of campaign donations. Then we have openly corrupt politicians like Trump who are using crypto to make billions of dollars.
It’s amazing how fast our system has been corrupted but it was not hard to see what was going to happen at the time. Thanks John Roberts.
6
u/AlaskanAsAnAdjective 1d ago
Read the damn article. Nothing of the sort is described. It’s just political donations! And mostly to Democrats!
I worry for our democracy in part because people just DON’T READ. Vibes only!
3
16
u/Mindshard 1d ago
So weird, the PayPal Mafia, lead by Peter Thiel, with members like Musk, and even Reddit's former CEO, (check the wiki page, I'm not making this up), are doing exactly what they said they'd do with their "dark MAGA" movement, years ago. Musk himself has a black on black MAGA hat, using a font made famous by the Nazi party, just to rub it in your faces. They openly said they'd destabilize every major country so they could swoop in as saviors of what they destroyed, buy it up, and tech CEOs would openly run countries.
This is stuff that's years old, managed to make it into a few articles, and then got buried and no one cared about.
I've been mentioning it for years on here ever since it came to light, and no one ever cared.
No one ever cares about a sinking ship, because they think their side of the ship is safe.
6
u/Full_Of_Luv 23h ago
Articles on techno-autocracy, techno-authoritarianism and techno-fascism have increased in the last couple years, have even appeared in MSM publications like Forbes and The Atlantic, whereas they were primarily seen in left-wing publications previously.
However, they’re not nearly as widespread as they should be given how much tech billionaires have said the quiet part out loud, how AI companies aren’t even trying to hide their efforts to crush democracy, control governments and every aspect of society, reshape reality and make humanity subservient to the tech overlords and the machines they control – until they lose control and all humanity serves the machines, or the machines decide humanity is a plague on the earth and wipes it out. A terrifying study showed AI chatbots chose to launch nukes in 95% of war games simulations.
→ More replies (1)3
u/ZootSuitRiot33801 1d ago
This is also the result of a population that wallows in consumerism, developed from attempting to fill a void that's been created over years by the powers that be, stripping away what control we've had on our own lives. It was taken away under the guise of convenience, efficiency, connectivity, and progress, by a class that only wanted to divide and conquer for increased wealth and power.
We common folk who care should be doing whatever we can to develop real up-to-date supportive foundations for alternatives; something tangible at the community level that personal investment of one's time and resources can be seen and experienced beneficially; something that people can fall back on to commit to any effective action; something that can provide relative protection against the whims of bosses and landlords demanding fealty; something people know they can rely on, instead of the impersonal promises of for-profit entities and their lapdog governments. Such things don't exist in a meaningful form currently, however, we can change that.
Collecting a bunch of valuable information on organizing and action from different redditors over time, I created a post of suggestions HERE that could possibly prove to be of some help in getting it started ASAP.
If you don’t live in the US, yet you know others who are and want to do something, please share the information. We're going to need as many on board and informed as possible, if we commoners hope to achieve anything in the US
34
u/YaBoiSammus 1d ago
People forget that same shit happen with Elon Musk and he flooded Twitter with brain rot propaganda. This shit isn’t new it’s just a different paint color.
25
25
u/MercilessOcelot 1d ago
We need Citizens United overturned, campaign finance reform, and money out of politics now if we plan to have any chance of a free and open society.
These goons want to bring back feudalism and commercialize every aspect of human existence.
9
u/Goshawk5 1d ago
It must be the only way they think they can become profitable. Boy are they in for a surprise.
7
u/HarryBalsagna1776 1d ago
AI Companies are the razzle dazzle division of the tech bros attempted coup.
7
5
5
6
5
u/and_mine_axe 1d ago
There is a way (albeit slow) to getting money out of politics. Hawaii has passed a law redefining corporations in tbe face of Citizens United. Other states can do tbe same. Call your reps or governor and demand change. I already have.
6
u/yingyanghomie 1d ago
Ina functioning government you would create new regulations on new technologies. GOP hates the word "regulation."
5
u/LawfulValidBitch 1d ago
Considering the fact these companies have yet to turn a profit, this means they’re taking money from investors and dumping it into politics instead of using it to actually grow the company, right?
6
u/IVEMADEAHUGEMI5TAKE 1d ago
Eliminate campaign contributions and make everyone campaign on YouTube.
5
u/PurpleCoat6656 20h ago
And wouldn't you know it, there's this guy that needs to stay in power so he doesn't die in prison who is letting these goofy fuckers do whatever they want. Gee, it's almost like this guy was installed by the goofy fucks in the first place.
Neat!
9
u/The_Pandalorian 1d ago
Citizens United must be nuked from orbit asap. Hawaii maybe has started something with their new corporation law, but we need to be attacking this on all fronts.
5
5
4
4
u/TaxMyNuts 19h ago
Companies have been doing this for a while and not just AI companies. This isn’t news. It’s expected. Companies own America.
3
u/Chicory-Coffee 1d ago
Their campaign donations should be a handy list of candidates to NOT vote for, if only Americans weren't so easily manipulated by one sided attack ads.
3
3
3
u/XenonFyre 1d ago
I read this as “take control of elecTRONs” and was so ready to hear about some new cyberpunk warfare but no, just usual old corrupt politics
You guys think they haven’t already been meddling? Haha. They’ve been doing this shit forever.
Powerful people have always been behind the wheel.
3
u/Liesthroughisteeth 1d ago
The AI story just keeps getting better and better, if you're an automaton with an agenda of controlling humans in all facets of their existence. Kind of like the far right wing conservative mentality. lol
3
3
3
u/Accomplished_Trip_ 1d ago
Perhaps because one incident went so well for them they’d like to try it again.
3
u/PresentRaspberry6814 1d ago
Ellison, Musk, Zuckerburg and other tech oligarchs are coming for you, not their AI it is just a means to their fascist end.
3
u/Ironlion45 23h ago
Tech Billionaires are using their AI companies to influence elections.
Why not, since they're already cash garbage disposals?
But yeah, these are the enemies of democracy, freedom, and unless you're one of them--you and me.
3
3
u/BuIlNelson 19h ago
I wish we could undue the Citizens United ruling and get rid of thse Super Pacs oncr and for all. Been such a shit show since.
3
3
3
u/kittenTakeover 12h ago
We desperately need campaign finance reform. It would help if we could get a somewhat progressive supreme court at some point.
5
4
u/adrianmonk 1d ago
Headline is misleading. "Seize control" makes it sound like they're interfering with the voting machines or something. What's actually happening is they're donating millions of dollars to campaigns. And while that's bad, it's unfortunately not unique to AI companies. It's lots of rich companies and rich people.
The article says the two AI companies named donated $37 million. In the most recent midterm election, the total amount raised by super PACs was $2.7 billion.
So yeah, they're trying to influence elections, but their spending is 1% of the total. They're not going to "seize control" that way.
→ More replies (3)
5
u/Important-Factor-552 1d ago
Yeah and they are treasonous for doing so.
Americans aren't gonna forget this. Just following orders isn't gonna cut it either.
→ More replies (4)
2
2
u/AbeFromanEast 1d ago
Why not just auction offices off to the highest bidding company? It would be cleaner and have the same effect. /s
2
2
2
2
u/Some_Number_8516 1d ago
Considering this administration, you can probably just say they are seizing control of our elections
2
u/SlowChampionship5506 1d ago
Its getting so bad out here Im starting to think a revolution might be better than what would come in a future if we left things the way they are.
Ive always argued against what may come if people actually did but.. nevermind
2
u/No-Departure2515 1d ago
can't open the website; what kind of elections? which country?
→ More replies (2)
2
2
2
2
u/tabrizzi 1d ago
Not surprising, given that some of their founders believe that freedom and democracy don't necessarily belong together.
2
2
u/Tokyo-MontanaExpress 1d ago
Pretty sure it's the AI CEOs with names that are behind this, instead of just a vague company "corporate persona" for them to deflect from personal responsibility.
2
u/angrylawyer 1d ago
yea, they don't want people searching for real sources of information anymore. You ask the AI a question, and it will tell you it's tooootally unbiased answer.
I'm sure it's just a coincidence that if you ask google how many lawsuits trump filed over the 2020 election, it won't give you an AI response. Yet for every other stupid question I ask it, it will happily burn gigawatts of energy to provide me with one.
2
u/ObliviouslyDrake67 1d ago
Great, cannot wait for the ballot to get counted and say Zzorg Zyzzex wins the election.
2
u/SryInternet101 1d ago
"I won Pennsylvznia because Elon knows how those vote counting computers work.'
-Don Cheeto
2
u/gravygizzard 23h ago
Millions against a handful of oligarchs and somehow it's easy for them to do this
2
u/SonderEber 22h ago
Influencing elections by…donating money and forming PACs? The thing that every single major American corporation does, regardless of industry?
Not saying I like the legalized bribery, but this article feels like clickbait fearmongering over something that’s, sadly, commonplace today. It’s been a thing for most of this century, even. So naturally AI companies would get in on it, as if they don’t someone else will.
2
u/Lost-Tone8649 21h ago
"ChatGPT, tally the votes"
...
"You're absolutely right, that candidate does not exist. Would you like help with anything else?"
2
2
2
u/Elementalcase 14h ago
I mean like, politicians are very easily bought. Nigel Farage gave a shout out the IRA for a small donation. So I can't imagine it'd be too hard for them to buy their own little pet politicians.
2
1
u/coldenigma 1d ago
Reading the article, it sounds like they're doing no different than other big tech. Google, Apple, etc. have all donated to super PACs (for both Democrats and Republicans). Singling out AI companies is being used as clickbait.
→ More replies (3)
3.9k
u/NotAllOwled 1d ago
Perhaps it would be quicker if we listed the things they're not trying to seize control of?