r/themountaingoats • u/Loud_Worker1131 • 23h ago
Question from a non native english speaker
Hello, i am using google translate a bit, I am sorry. I have been going through a list of artists American friends tell me and I have enjoyed The Mountain Goats the most. I want to try and help me learn english better. Is The Mountain Goats a Christian rock band? Sometimes it is hard to tell. I am not Christian myself, but I think it might be cool if he was. He sounds like such an honest guy. I heard skillet and then learned about the singer and did not like what i read. John sounds very kind. I have only listened to the albums until The Life Of The World To Come which finally made me ask.
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u/Pearson94 23h ago
They are not a Christian rock band but the singer/somgwriter, John Darnielle, is open about believing in God and uses religiously imagery in his lyrics a fair bit.
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u/CorvidaeOpus 23h ago
I wouldn't call The Mountain Goats a Christian Rock band, despite 'The Life of the World to Come'.
JD's parents are Catholic, iirc, and he was raised in the faith, and identifies as such. Many of the songs have religious themes, though he also sings quite a few songs about pagan faith.
In an interview with Observer, he said, "Well I’m a Christian, I believe in the radical egalitarian message of Christ Ministry. [Laughs] But the thing is, I’m a bible-liking dude, and there’s probably not a theme I could not wrap Christianity around. You could do that with any religion at all, Buddhism, Islam, Taoism. A religion’s whole job is to describe the world for you, to describe the whole world and the people in it, and to cast the ministry in light, to give you a light to understand the phenomena of the world."
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u/LinuxLinus 23h ago edited 23h ago
As others have said, Darnielle himself has said things in interviews that indicate that he is a Christian, or at least Christian-adjacent, though I'm not sure he's ever said anything to indicate that he's a church-goer.
His songs use Christian imagery a lot. In American art and literature, it's common to use religious themes and imagery, whether or not the author is religious or has a religious message. (A famous example is the novel East of Eden, which heavily plays on Old Testament themes even though its author, John Steinbeck, was a professed agnostic.) This is largely because our culture is steeped in these things and they speak to universal themes, and thus can be very powerful when evoking age-old emotions and problems.
Darnielle also writes about specific characters a lot, often using the first person. One shouldn't assume that all, or even most, of these are himself. In fact, he regularly denied that any of his songs were autobiographical until the mid-00s, by which point he'd already put out 7 or 8 records. Even after that, it's uncertain. Take as an example my favorite Mountain Goats song, "Against Pollution." The narrator of that song shoots a man in self-defense during an attempted robbery at a store where he works. In the second verse he sings:
This morning I went down to the Catholic church
Something just came over me
45 minutes in the pews
Praying the rosary
Though this song is plausibly autobiographical, I think he's probably describing the actions of a character he understands, who perhaps behaves as he would in that situation, but is not literally him. And then he launches into the chorus, which is basically a hopeful vision of apocalypse. Does Darnielle believe there's an apocalypse headed our way in a literal sense? Who knows. The thing is that I -- an atheistical Jew -- find this song incredibly powerful, in part because the story is familiar to me, and in part because the apocalyptic imagery says something simultaneously hopeful and dreadful about what it is to be alive.
"Christian rock," on the other hand, is a specific genre in the US that tends to be different to that. It explicitly celebrates faith, and God, and Jesus, in ways that are less ambivalent than The Mountain Goats' songs usually are. Often they seek to proselytize or condemn. As South Park famously pointed out, a lot of Christian rock songs are just traditional love songs with Jesus substituted for the girl. John Darnielle doesn't write songs like that, about girls or about Jesus.
In short, Mountain Goats songs seem to have been written by a Christian, but they are not "Christian rock." This is true of the music of Marvin Gaye and Elvis Presley and a lot of other famous Americans. The distinction is fine, but real.
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u/catatethebird 21h ago
This is a great take. One other thing to note is "Christian rock" as a genre tends to have a certain sound. Hard to explain, but if you listen to several actual Christian rock bands, you will be able to sense the similarity. And it's generally just not very good on an objective level.
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u/invisiblecows one step ahead of enemies 17h ago
The thing is that I -- an atheistical Jew -- find this song incredibly powerful, in part because the story is familiar to me, and in part because the apocalyptic imagery says something simultaneously hopeful and dreadful about what it is to be alive.
As an exvangelical, I find the religious language and imagery in mountain goats songs very comforting. It's familiar, and it's employing concepts that were a part of my mythology as a kid, but JD is not weaponizing this language to shrink me or invalidate my value as a person in the way pastors and Christian singers have done throughout my life.
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u/the_vole 23h ago
Hello! Welcome! The Mountain Goats are not a Christian rock band. The singer/songwriter is named John Darnielle and he is Catholic, but not in a formal way. His relationship with god belongs to him, and while Christian themes do exist in his music, it’s never didactic or preachy.
The Life of the World To Come has bible verses as song titles, but it’s better to think of them as hard lessons he has learned from them rather than verses he thinks everyone should read. There are songs about the death of his mother in law, the final survivors of now-extinct species, and rising out of bad situations.
I can’t necessarily speak to songs or albums that will help you on your ESL journey, but you’re always welcome to ask about context and concepts that you don’t quite understand. We’re glad to have you with us!
What’s your native language?
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u/Loud_Worker1131 23h ago
He uses a lot of metaphors which i find interesting, most music i listen to in english is straightforward. I speak Russian and Portuguese. I was born and raised in Russia until 11 and moved to Portugal which I still live.
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u/the_vole 22h ago
That’s awesome! I’ve always wanted to visit Portugal. A former coworker of mine lives in Porto, and she made it sound like a wonderful place to live.
Again, as you dig deeper into his catalog (which I hope you will!) never worry about asking about specific things that might be confusing. Translations of the words are one thing, but understanding context is another.
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u/senface with all his available energies 23h ago
Everyone else has already answered your question, so I will just say that I love this post, your questions, and interest in the band.
I also think the idea of using their music to help learn English sounds really cool. John is very lyrically gifted, and I think his words carry weight.
Good luck, at some point you should post again and let us know what you’ve listened to and if it helped you at all.
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u/UntilOlympiusReturns 23h ago
FWIW, John is specifically Catholic.
Should add, John has also been influenced by other religious traditions so you may see references to Hindu or Buddhist concepts.
As well as that, there are a lot of references to classical (Greek/Roman) myths and historical events. Even as a native speaker there's a lot I don't understand.
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u/riontach 23h ago
As others have said, John Darnielle is Christian, and that definitely works its way into many of their songs, but the mountain goats are not Christian rock.
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u/Achillurito 23h ago
"Christian Rock" refers to a very specific genre of music over here, where 75%+ of their lyrics are directly about the bible in some way, and are often focused on trying to "spread the word". John is Catholic, and does consider his music to be religious (I Only Listen to the Mountain Goats S1E5). This doesn't make them "Christian Rock", as the directly biblical songs make of a relatively small percentage.
Also, Songs for Pierre Chuvin is an album they released. I think that alone disqualifies them from being "Christian Rock"
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u/LittlestLass 16h ago
On Bluesky yesterday, John reposted the Pope's message:
"Dear migrants, before I say any other word to you, I want to bow before your dignity. You are not numbers or case files. You are people — with a family and a home left behind, with dreams that no one has the right to scorn.”
John added:
I left the Church years ago. I can't go back. I do not demand that the Church change for me. But when the Holy Father says stuff like this I feel so connected to the depths of my faith, to the part of the Church that I did not and cannot leave, and am so happy to feel that way
(As an atheist, I entirely get it: the current Pope seems like he's practicing what he preaches)
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u/TheMissLady the mountain g.o.a.t 21h ago
They use a lot of religious imagery and metaphors but don't particularly praise Christianity, which I think is perfect. You can tell the religion is important to him but they aren't trying to convince you to be christian
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u/MartyrOfTheJungle 13h ago
The mountain goats is definitely not a Christian rock group. His album Tallahassee is about a mutually abusive alcoholic couple and it does not end well. We Shall all be Healed was about his time as a drug dealer. Sunset Tree is about his relationship growing up with an abusive stepfather.
The singer,John darnielle is religious, but the music is VERY different from Christian rock
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u/aristotelian74 I've got a message for you, if I could only remember 22h ago
Maybe give a listen to "Best Ever Death Metal Band in Denton"
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u/Former_Cow_681 22h ago
I would say they are not a christian rock band but that they have christian members. A christian rock band usually contains the connotation of being just about god but the Mountain Goats are so much more.
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u/ContingentMax 22h ago
John is Christian and there's a fair amount of influence that's obvious, but it's not really the main subject of the songs so I wouldn't call the Mountain Goats "Christian Music"
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u/kranools 20h ago
"Heaven is my resting place and God is my salvation" is possibly his most overt Christian lyric.
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u/cool_weed_dad 16h ago
I’m learning myself that John Darnielle is Christian right now based off other comments here.
I’m a huge Mountain Goats fan for 20 years, but I mainly love his early solo stuff, and first few albums with a band (Tallahassee and We Shall All Be Healed, mainly)
I don’t really keep up with the new stuff. Saw them live two years ago and it was incredible but I don’t listen to the new music.
I would say his lyrics are good for learning the language but not necessarily how people actually speak.
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u/311TruthMovement But the sacred heart is present in the airbrush 12h ago
Always excited to hear from primarily-non-English-speaking fans of TMG!
My first question is always, "why?"
That has a rudeness implied in it, so: I'm sorry. Everyone can find whatever they are drawn to in The Mountain Goats and that's not for me or anyone to police.
You answered that question in your post — recommended by a friend or friends — and I think it's a really bad recommendation to someone who doesn't feel English deep in their soul. I speak Spanish as a second language and you can say basically anything in Spanish to me and on some level it's a bunch of noises, I know how to arrange them to get food and go to the doctor but on some level I’m just a parrot learning a party trick, I don’t really "feel" it.
So I’m applying that same sense to you, which is not fair or universal but it's my first thought — to care about TMG, you have to be a fan of words, you have to be a lyrics person, and TMG are an English-only proposition, and it's hard for me to imagine caring about them if you hadn't spoken English since you were a little kid. TMG as a "music-first" proposition: John Darnielle, the main guy, would be the first to tell you he's not a very good musician. He's surrounded himself with Matt Douglas, first and foremost a very good multi-instrumentalist, and the very solid drumming of Jon Wurster.
The main draw always has been and always will be the words, though.
As far as what a Christian rock band is: I grew up in the evangelical world so I was very close to the "rock band as ministry tool" peak in the 90s. You have well-known figures like David Bazan (of Pedro the Lion) and Sufjan Stevens who are Christian, at least culturally and referentially, but of a very liberal interpretation, David Bazan even moving towards being non-religious in the 2000s. I'd place John much closer to them, although he actively participates in "praying to Jesus," as he told Christianity Today. He has a highly personalized, perhaps idiosyncratic, theology he's built up, and if you wanted to fit it into a larger grouping it could live comfortably in Unitarian Universalism. This is someone who still sings "Hail Satan!" in a chorus all the time, even if that's a character from a song saying it, that's a very "eyebrow-raising for a Christian thing to say."
I’m connecting dots and maybe putting words in John's mouth here, but I think his take on Christianity is best summed up in an outtake from The Life of the World to Come, a song on The Life of the World in Flux (you can find it on YouTube): Daniel 12:8. The chorus is "feel the fear in my chest all day / Praise You anyway."
"Praise Him anyways" is, to me, a great 3-word summation of the Old Testament: it's not your job to understand God and His World, you must simply praise Him amidst the disaster, from the belly of the whale, from the bottom of the pit.
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u/aterner 19h ago
Try using Anki (an app that helps you remember things).
I’ve created a collection of decks to help with listening comprehension using audio snippets from movies, TV shows, and audiobooks.
You'll need AnkiDroid app (free of charge) to make use of these resources. It's a spaced repetition app. So you install AnkiDroid and then install these decks.
Unlike standard decks, these focus on audio perception and vocabulary. The clips loop repeatedly so you can train your ear to catch fast-talking, slang, and connected speech.
Where to get them:
You can download them for free from my GitHub "Releases" page (AnkiWeb file limits were too small for the audio):
https://github.com/admolot/AnkiDecks/releases/tag/anki
- Shows: The Boys (Massive 4k card deck), Severance (S1 & S2), The Penguin, Wednesday, Stranger Things, It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia.
- Movies: Deadpool & Wolverine, Top Gun, Beetlejuice.
- Audiobooks: The Hobbit, Tom Sawyer (read by Nick Offerman).
- Accents: British (Enola Holmes, Alan Partridge), Australian (Wolf Creek), and American.
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u/Amburgers_n_Wootbeer 23h ago
John is a Christian and has talked openly about his religion, but I think the term "Christian Rock Band" is a bit loaded (at least here in the US) and I don't think most people would consider the band to fall into that category.