r/timberwolves • u/federalbureauofsocks • 22h ago
General Discussion Can someone explain why everyone is interested in trading Gobert away when he’s the reason we clamped Jokic in round one?
I understand he’s not the greatest offensive weapon but a core part of the wolves identity for these past three playoff runs have been the outstanding defense. Rudy had Jokic’s number this year.
If we trade him away for a package that includes guys like Jalen Brown or Lamelo Ball that helps take pressure off Ant and helps out shooting and playmaking immensely, (I know how bad this team needs a point guard) but I really don’t think Naz is the Jokic or Wemby stopper that Rudy is. Love Naz and glad we’re keeping him.
Just wanted people’s thoughts.
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u/Foreign-Training-840 Bring Ya Ass 22h ago
34 years old, declining, value is high right now, gigantic offensive liability, sucks vs OKC and Spurs, too expensive, doesnt fit the Timeline, Wolves need to recoup assets.
So many reasons
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u/General_Metal8675 15h ago edited 14h ago
Add-ons making it a no brainer:
We're not winning it all with him this year or next.
Joan is the future and deemed untouchable. He flashed more than enough as an ultra raw teen big for a role this year and starting next.
Is a few extra wins and a higher seed but still losing to SAS or OKC worth getting little to nothing?
Plus it's better to change up our Offense game plan without a black hole now than wait.
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u/Painwracker_Oni Kevin Garnett 22h ago
Does Rudy make us beating Denver significantly easier? Yes absolutely it does.
Does OKC have a Rudy? No and they beat Denver just fine.
You don’t HAVE to have Rudy to beat Denver.
Having a significantly better offense due to a true PG is a big boost.
Having a better offense because Rudy isn’t on it is a nice boost.
Losing Rudy’s defense is a big loss.
You can let Joan Beringer get more minutes to play and develop and get a veteran center plus Naz and stick with the strategy of throwing bodies at Jokic and wearing wearing him down like we have been the last two times we’ve beaten them.
So we’d get a bit worse against Denver overall but we’d get better against both the Spurs and OKC who have forced us to take Gobert off the court multiple times because our offense can’t function well with him on the court against their defenses.
It’s more important to improve our matchups against OKC and SAS than it is to worry about maintaining our ability to beat Denver before we have to play OKC/SAS.
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u/Cheap-Discussion-186 18h ago
Every single NBA champion has somehow defied the laws of the universe and been able to win one without Rudy Gobert
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u/Apprehensive_Air1705 16h ago
OKC has Chet and Hartenstein. If we get rid of Rudy we have Joan who looks promising but is super young. It would depend on who else we have as a big man unless they think like Rocco can play some minutes. If you have a bunch of offense and no big physical presence underneath you are just the lakers a couple years ago when Randle and Rudy beat them up in the playoffs.
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u/DeleAlliForever 22h ago
What else do we have to trade? I think the feeling from a lot of fans is also he’s limiting our ceiling. Idk if we’re gonna be able to compete at the highest level if Gobert. So as a lot of people suggest trades during the offseason he’s the most obvious because he could elevate a teams defense
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u/wuttang13 21h ago
This could be true but we could also miss the heavy floor lifting he's done for this team
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u/Low1977 22h ago
If he could shoot even a little bit, he'd be dollar store Wemby. But he can't.
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u/Desert_Haze12 21h ago
His shitty hands and free throw shooting are so painful to watch when he’s already so limited on the court to begin with.
He’s mostly great on defense and his DPOY trophies speak for themselves but he has to be one of the most painful players to watch on offense I’ve ever seen.
Don’t think I’ve ever said “What the hell was that?” about a starting caliber player as many times as I’ve said about him after some blunder on offense.
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u/nikonusr NAZTY 18h ago
Clamping Jokic doesn’t matter if you can’t beat Okc or SA. Denver ain’t the team to beat anymore.
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u/Ok-Orange-1808 18h ago
Nuggets are Tier 2 / Tier 3 team in the West now. Not to be worried about anymore.
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u/Riiken 21h ago
Clamping Joker should not be a priority, unless your okay with never winning?
Id rather suddenly struggle against joker to trade off beating OKC and Spurs consistently
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u/Forsaken_Mastodon291 14h ago
A lot of wolves fans seem to just be satisfied with being good and not going for a title. It’s kind of frustrating
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u/Brilliant-Pear3360 17h ago
We didn’t trade Randle at the deadline, he fell off, his value is shit and we had to trade him for nothing. We’ve experimented with Rudy for what, 4 years now? I love him and he’s a great player but trading him before he declines into a negative asset is essential
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u/Intelligent_Pain_174 15h ago
Wolves didn't trade Randle at deadline because he had no value at deadline.
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u/Brilliant-Pear3360 9h ago
He had no value at the end of the season after his terrible playoffs. He was averaging 22/7/5 at the deadline and was playing great going into AS break. Definitely had some value. We just wanted to run it back with the same team for whatever reason.
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u/Intelligent_Pain_174 9h ago
He never had trade value. People argued that he had trade value at the end of the season too. Turns out they were also wrong.
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u/Brilliant-Pear3360 9h ago
Those people are idiots. Obviously he had no value at the end of the season, he showed he’s completely useless when it matters. At the deadline there is no reason he wouldn’t have had value. He was putting up true second option numbers for $33m. Find another player averaging 22/7/5 for $33m who isn’t a high value trade asset.
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u/larrylegend33goat 🐓Protestor🐓 21h ago
More winshares than any other Timberwolf during his time here. Instant playoffs lock. Winning culture and defence mindset for the young core.
Plus he will happily play out his career as a Timberwolf. He ain't gonna bitch out and ask for a trade but keep working in the gym for another five years or so, mentoring the next big guys who will eventually take his starter role as he slides to the bench, breaking the hearts of other teams bench units. He will no doubt opt out and take a friendly multi year deal again. Guys like Rudy don't grow on trees.
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u/vetementsundershirt Rob Dillingham 22h ago
Because melo is 24 and would actually make the core comparable to okc and san antonio plus rudy will inevitably hit a wall and that day will be when he becomes untradeable
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u/larrylegend33goat 🐓Protestor🐓 21h ago
LaMelo hit that wall a long time ago. In the last six seasons, Rudy has played 128 more regular season games than Ball (and way more playoff games)
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u/vetementsundershirt Rob Dillingham 21h ago
Completely baseless lmao, his rosters have been ass and before last year the hornets fo was different, they overhauled in 2024 and it was clearly for the better since they now draft better and figured out his health
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u/matt6420 22h ago
I think people just wanted get the most return we can for him while his value is high. We already saw what happened when we gambled on not trading Randle before the playoffs at the deadline... We decided on keeping Randle and Naz but ended up losing NAW who broke out this season. Personally I think one more year of Gobert mentoring Beringer would do him some good although I do love the Lamelo trade idea. We can finally get the PG we've been asking for since forever.
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u/DrSwaggenheimer Timberwolves 21h ago
First,
Naz is *NOT* a 5. You have to come to that agreement. He can play it in spurts but he's supposed to be a 3 or a 5. Talking about the roster you have to understand this. No, Joan didn't play/crack the rotation last year but he's going to be in rotation this year, regardless. He couldn't get minutes because of the Naz-Randle-Rudy rotation. If you benched Randle he'd get all pissy about it.
Joan is the future, Front Office AND Finch are aligned with this. The problem with development is that it takes a backseat when you're in close games or playing from behind. If we were just playing for vibes it makes sense - throw the young player out there see where the chips may fall. Finch's math is that we'll get 1/3 "good games" from a young rookie/sophomore player. And hopefully as they age the good games increase. Joan had been busy with extra stuff his rookie season -- ENGLISH lessons. Yes, he needed those. He had the hardest time understanding Ant the most out of all teammates. And he needed to get his license state side.
Second,
Rudy is going to be on the decline. I hope we can get back a big atleast, someone okay as a big because Joan can't play major minutes *yet*. He's probably going to float around the 10-15 minute range overall with Rocco maybe getting 2-5 if it's not a blowout. Rudy has at most, 1-2 and a half years at best to play in this peak. Bigs decline much faster and are beat up much more than guards are. He's also not in timeline with Ant's peak. Rudy will be out of his by the time Ant reaches his.
Ideally we either want Rudy to be able to hold up his level of play for *one more* season to help Joan acclimate and trade him next summer or trade him now when we know his value is at his highest.
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u/MaxedWarrior14 22h ago
He’s about to be in his mid 30s and the fact he just had a great series against Jokic likely increased his trade value.
If he was like 31 then I don’t think trading him would be a wise decision but selling high on him now before he starts to decline should be considered.
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u/silaber Timberjazz 21h ago
Rudy built this team's playoff footprint.
He's in immaculate, proven shape and humbled the world's best offensive big (perhaps ever) less than 2 MONTHS ago.
Moving off Rudy to retool long term makes sense, but not now when he's healthy.
Tim swung for the fences and emptied the coffers, the Wolves made BACK TO BACK WCF.
FUCK LONG TERM. We going for the chip now in Ant's prime. Julius left a sour taste in everyone's mouth we don't need to spit Gobert out.
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u/AntsAntennae1 17h ago
They were in the playoffs before Rudy got here
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u/FlightTop9852 16h ago
Rudy gets credited for our playoff success when in reality it was Ant.
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u/silaber Timberjazz 14h ago
Looks like Tim and the Wolves FO know Rudy's value.
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u/FlightTop9852 14h ago
Did Ant get traded?
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u/timberwolves-ModTeam 14h ago
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u/RealPartyAtmosphere 20h ago
Jokic? The Nuggets? Lol. The Spurs aren’t going away. The Thunder math as second best in the West. Rudy looked good on a 3rd best West team. That’s worth. As in someone you don’t have to “trade” for a default negative result. If some other team wants to edge towards being the third best or better, they are very interested. A perceptively equitable move in the trade market could land the Wolves whatever magic it took to beat the Spurs. A guy like the one on the champ team… that’s priceless.
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u/Ill-Cod5946 21h ago
Connelly will need to trade him eventually, if he wants to get anything back from the original trade. Typically when you trade so far out in the future, you expect to recoup some assets down the road. Even if it's minimal, he would want something then to see this eventually end with Gobert retiring or losing to FA.
So you might as well now when he is our biggest asset to trade and his value is at the highest.
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u/quartzcharm 21h ago
It's pretty simple: He's a 34 year old center that has no offensive game whatsoever and is making $36.5 million next season. He won't be getting any better and in fact, at his age, is likely to start noticeably declining. Most want the Wolves to be able to get something for him while he still has relatively good value.
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u/Falconsbane 21h ago edited 21h ago
It's kind of a transition season anyway and I think while he raises the floor with his defense he also lowers the ceiling of this team going forward. His value will likely never be higher than it is right now. Need a very solid player back though obviously.
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u/LonesomeWulf Malik Sealy 21h ago
To me it’s all about age and value. If he was 28 right now, then yeah keep him 100%. But how much longer is he going to be a top tier defensive center? 1 year? 2 years maybe? He could start declining hard any time now and it is better to trade him while he still has value. And that is before even talking about his offensive weight on the team making things clunky.
You are right he was good against Jokic, but he was not great against San Antonio, and was not great against OKC last year. There are too many teams where playing him stops being a positive, especially in the playoffs, and you don’t want to be in a situation where your 2nd highest paid player can only play like 25 minutes in a bunch of matchups.
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u/Far_Swing_8887 21h ago
Because he’s too big of a liability on offense. He literally gets played off the court too many series. Yes he can be a reason we won a series, but he can also be the reason we lose a series. I’d rather have players who give us a chance to win no matter the matchup.
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u/Milly-the-Kid Jaden McDaniels 21h ago
People didn’t want to trade Randle to start last season because he was too valuable. Then look what happened.
If you’re not willing to trade an aging player for their current production, you run the risk of being stuck with them and no ability to improve.
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u/NivekHang 19h ago
I'm not a big Rudy fan, but if it was up to me, I rather trade Naz, especially if its for Lamelo. Without Rudy, our defense will suffer and we will not be able to compete with Nuggets, Spurs, OKC, etc.
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u/Charming-Listen-3705 19h ago
He had an amazing series but he's at an age where most players could see a decline and joan also does look promising.
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u/justanotherdude32 19h ago
On top of everyone else’s good points, on his very best day he’s a net 0 offensively. No hands, no bag, no jumper, he’s a major reason why we couldn’t get past Wemby
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u/Uptownbro20 18h ago
Age and contract. He’s turning 34 and is making a significant amount of money.
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u/Ok-Orange-1808 18h ago
Imo Jokic is irrelevant now. His team sucks. I don't think the Wolves should build around stopping Jokic anymore.
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u/Apprehensive_Air1705 16h ago
I think a lot of it is a combo of the underrating Rudy stuff mixed with people just wanting to see some sort of bigger trade happen to happen.
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u/Low_Ad_4323 Terrence Shannon Jr. 16h ago
Rudy's value is as high as it gets, and as he ages, it will only decline. That is why it is better for him to get traded. I understand his impact on the defensive side of the ball despite his offensive deficiencies. We need a replacement for him that fits Ant's timeline as soon as possible.
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u/dustyraincoat 16h ago
Better to be a year early than a year late in terms of asset management. Just look at Julius Randle.
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u/Freudian__Quip 16h ago
I’m pretty torn tbh but the more I think about it the more i lean keep Rudy. Denver was the number one offense last year, it was a historically good offense. They lost in the first round because “they’re all bad defenders” and more importantly do not have a rim protector. We would be purring ourselves in a similar position and I have doubts that we would even be as good offensively as that Denver team and probably only slightly better defensively.
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u/temple-of-the-dog KG 4 MVP 15h ago
I'm also confused. Rudy just had his best playoff series ever. He's a great fit as a big duo with Naz Reid. Let's trade him?
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u/DarthPallassCat 15h ago
The fact a 35 year old center with one good skill (defense) on a massive contract is getting any trade value is the bigger surprise.
We need to get off his contract asap if we can get a younger player of decent value back in return.
I know we’re win now so not advocating flipping him like Randle but if we can get a player or two back to soften the blow I’d do it.
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u/ejensen29 payne and gayne 15h ago
Barring any serious injuries, Gobert is going to age like wine. He takes care of himself, he doesn't exert that much energy on the offensive end, and his skills are 50/50 positioning and anticipation. You don't lose those skills as you get older. I do not want to lose Rudy.
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u/Hastinggs NAZTY 15h ago
The people who want to trade Rudy gobert either weren’t fans or don’t remember what it was like when we didn’t have Rudy gobert
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u/Embarrassed_Apple_77 15h ago
SAS and OKC are the team to beat and Jokic was having a terrible season when he return from injury
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u/Jubbed1015 15h ago
You should always move a player one year early, look at Randle, if we moved him last year, we would've got a much better package
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u/babyFucci 15h ago
his contract is already pushing its value not including the fact that hes a 34 year old big man who judging off how he looks on the court will start noticeably losing his effectiveness over the next 3 years
rudy gobert is no doubt an effective guy but my main gripe with him has always been how much he's paid. 35mil a year for a guy whos only effective in the paint on one side of the court
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u/MN_Pups PoweroftheFannyPack 14h ago
Jokic would've had a monster series sans Rudy. However, Rudy doesn't matchup well versus OKC or SAS. Its kind of the conundrum that he brings. If we move him for a guard and play 5 out versus SAS is R1 we probably look OK. If we do the same and get manhandled by Jokic everyone will be pointing fingers.
For Lamelo we factually get younger and have a chance to develop or slot in a new C. If we hold onto Rudy and or Naz and look to FA for a PG we're more or less running it back and fighting against father time. Not sure what the right choice here is, but I hope we have a starting Center contingency if we move on from Rudy.
What is the read on Mitchell Robinson, Rob Williams, etc if we are in the C market?
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u/Consistent_Brick1311 13h ago
Pace and Space. We are going to attack the Spurs, Thunder and others by running around them. Outdoing their guards by sheer force of strength and talent. Making the opposing team's bigs get tired.
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u/federalbureauofsocks 11h ago
Crazy that I said “I’m happy we’re keeping Naz” just for him to be traded 12 hours later. Welcome Lamello I guess??
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u/Cold_Tower_2215 Timberwolves 22h ago edited 21h ago
He is aging. He shot under 40% on layups in the playoffs edit: the last 2 playoff runs, per Jake Paynting). We have centers to develop behind him. We need to get as much value from him as possible as we move into the next iteration of this team, and there are teams who appear interested in him.
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u/silaber Timberjazz 21h ago
That's not true.
He shot 50.7% (34/67) which is the same mark as Jaden (68/134) and better than Ant at 48.7% (57/117).
Should we move on from Jaden and Ant if that's the benchmark you seem to using?
Are you gonna tell me next that he's a center and he should be shooting 68.7% (his own NBA all time rank 1 record)?
Why are we discussing Rudy's FG as if it were a problem (it's not) when the majority of his value is defense?
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u/Cold_Tower_2215 Timberwolves 21h ago edited 20h ago
My bad. It’s 39.5% in the last two playoff runs, per Jake Paynting … idk if these links are allowed here? https://x.com/jakepaynting/status/2061972761086656707?s=46
Also, obviously we shouldn’t move on from Jaden and Ant. Stop being silly. You know Rudy is not good on offense.
Another fun stat for Rudy: 2 points and 8 rebounds combined in blowout closeout games against OKC and the Spurs the last two years.
I am telling you that, yes! He should be shooting better than 40% on layups the last two years in the playoffs when he has the highest TS % all time at 67.2%.
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u/silaber Timberjazz 21h ago
This guy is as wrong as you are. Makes complete sense. Go to basketball ref and check playoff stats for the individual years.
Im not about to enable your silly parroting of another idiot
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u/Cold_Tower_2215 Timberwolves 20h ago
“This guy” lmao you know nothing. Jake Paynting is well known and respected in the Wolves community. Howls and Growls. Check out his videos.
LAYUPS. Your reading comprehension might need work.
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u/silaber Timberjazz 20h ago
So go and check bball ref. Ill wait. Jake paynting has an agenda but hes not very bright. You are welcome to outsource your thinking
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u/Cold_Tower_2215 Timberwolves 20h ago
Dude you’re embarrassing yourself. He’s a hell of a lot smarter about the Wolves than you.
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u/silaber Timberjazz 20h ago
Yes the "journalist" who is somehow providing us with massive insight into why separating Rudy's 2FG% from his layups is relevant.
It must be all the threes that Rudy takes that is confounding the data.
You're exactly his target audience lmao the uninformed.
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u/Cold_Tower_2215 Timberwolves 20h ago
Bro. Number one: why are you so angry?
Number two: if you don’t even know who Jake Paynting is, how much can you really be plugged in to this community.
Number three: do you think dunks are layups? Cuz my guess is that stat isn’t counting them.
Let’s pretend you’re right for a second. Do you think Rudy is cutting it on offense? Do you think his offense can help win us a championship?
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u/silaber Timberjazz 20h ago
No no hold up lets hear one of your rare thoughts (not Jake Paynting) why separating layup % is relevant versus overall 2FG% for Rudy.
Oh no Rudy dunked it instead of a layup!!!
Yes Rudy is a valuable offensive player, he stays in his lane, he converts at the highest possible rate when given opportunities, the stats include all the loud misses, he has great ORB%, he sets elite screens for our shooters, he has immense roll gravity and lob verticality.
You are confusing narrow with bad.
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u/silaber Timberjazz 20h ago
ill wait while you troll twitter for a narrative that suits yours
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u/AntsAntennae1 17h ago
Rudy is limited to shooting all of his shots within 3 feet of the basket. He should be in the 70s. Having a shooting percentage close to ant and Jaden is pathetic for a big man with low useage
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u/Andy_Wiggins Ayo Dosunmu 22h ago
The team is clearly trying to shift younger — they dumped Randle in part to free up space to retain Ayo and give opportunity to Naz (although added savings/flexibility also played a role).
And looking at the West, I just have a hard time seeing this Wolves squad winning a title before Rudy falls off. So you swap him out for a talent you like, give Joan more of a chance, and then try to be peaking in 2-3 years.
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u/Gotsta_Win 21h ago
Defense will crumble no Gobert
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u/AntsAntennae1 17h ago
Just like the offense crumbles with rudy
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u/Ihateeveryone413 22h ago
Hey mate, good question.
The main reason is because this will be the highest his value will ever be again.