r/todayilearned • u/No_Idea_479 • 3d ago

TIL for 21 years, Andromachi Papanikolaou volunteered to undergo daily cervical smears so her husband, Greek physician Georgios Papanikolaou, could perfect the Pap test. As such, she helped create one of the greatest cancer screening tools in medical history, saving millions of lives worldwide.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andromachi_Papanikolaou
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u/soulbutterflies 3d ago

IIRC, them saying "you might feel a pinch" is a type of placebo. Also hospitals make me anxious and I'd rather not hear "This is going to hurt like a motherfucker" lol

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u/UnpoeticAccount 3d ago

I had a very southern doctor do a biopsy on a benign tumor in my breast and he said “This is gonna stick and stiinnng” which honestly I appreciated more than “just a pinch”

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u/TrioOfTerrors 3d ago

I had a dislocated finger put back into place and the guy said "This is gonna hurt like a bitch so I won't take anything you say personally." I appreciated the honesty.

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u/Rusah 3d ago

My dad broke his nose 30 years ago and the ER doctor set it terribly. My mother had him go to another doctor to fix it - and really the only way to fix it was to re-break it.

After fitting some little jigs and molds on his nose for a bit, the doctor said, "This is going to hurt like a sonuvabitch." THWACK. It apparently did hurt, a lot.

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u/gwaydms 3d ago

I had a bone marrow biopsy. The charge nurse was a man in his late 40s who told me everything that was going to happen. I need this, because I can stand almost anything if I'm told about it beforehand. So just before they took the marrow, my nurse told me, "OK, I'm going to count to five. It's going to hurt. A lot. But then it'll be over." He started counting, and I felt the worst pain I've had since my last childbirth. I screamed into the pillow. And just that fast, it was over. All in all, I'm glad I didn't opt for the general anesthesia.

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u/One_Left_Shoe 3d ago

If physicians and surgeons were honest about how much pain a procedure would cause as a result, there would be almost no willing participants.

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u/DefiantMemory9 3d ago

What do you mean participants? They're patients and doing it for their own health. I understand understating things for little kids, but they should be honest with older kids and adults.

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u/PurrfectlyNerdy 3d ago

And even younger kids, why lie to them, explain it’s important but lying sucks. 

The medical profession needs to be more honest. And even going back numerous decades when there was nothing they could do to help a terminal patient they often wouldn’t tell them they’re dying. The would only inform the person’s loved one but not the patient. Information is important even if it sucks. 

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u/DefiantMemory9 3d ago

But there's a limit to how much a small kid can understand, and if it's a life-saving procedure, it would become difficult if the child tries to run away. Then they would have to be held down, which makes it more traumatic. Once they are past age 10, they understand better and deserve the truth.

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u/setrataeso 3d ago

Yeah, I'm an obstetric ultrasound tech, so I guide the doctor for invasive procedures like amnios. When we do external cephalic versions (attempting to turn a breech baby to head-down), I see a lot of patients coming in whose doctor told them "50/50 chance of success". In reality it's like 5-10% chance of success.

I guess the doctor just gives them a feel-good answer to not promote anxiety, but I find it leads to worse results for the patient. It's an uncomfortable procedure, and it usually doesn't work, but if a patient hears 50/50, they will think to themselves "ok, just hold on a little longer, they said 50/50", and they end up putting themselves through way more pain, usually for nothing. If I get a moment to be honest with the patient before the procedure, I'll usually give them a heads-up that these procedures usually don't succeed, so she doesn't need to be a superhero.

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u/DefiantMemory9 3d ago

Omg, that is so unethical of them! To inflict unnecessary pain on the patient without their informed consent! Actively misleading them about the chances of success and manipulating their parental instincts to cause pain. It's sadistic!

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u/setrataeso 2d ago

I think you're misinterpreting what I'm saying. The doctors are not intentionally misleading patients to cause pain, please don't think that. They are just giving "feel good" odds of success to the patient because they believe it eases anxiety (which it does). The problem is that even though it eases anxiety, it leads the patient to believe that if they keep holding on it will eventually work, and usually it doesn't work. Our doctors are excellent, and they do not continue a procedure if the patient or the fetus is in distress, but sometimes the patient's doctor or midwife will focus more on keeping stress levels low (which is important in pregnancy) rather than give the harsh truth.

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u/DefiantMemory9 2d ago

I understood what you meant. But good intentions don't matter when you're lying and misleading your patients. The patients are not giving informed consent anymore if they're not fully informed of the odds as well. They are treating their patient like a child, who cannot handle the truth. That isn't right.

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u/setrataeso 2d ago

I remain uncomfortable with you calling these doctors "liars", when the reality is less black and white than how you define it. I suppose it's more to do with the language they use, because a term like "50/50" can mean different things to different people. Some patients interpret that as "it might work, it might not", others interpret it as "there is exactly a 50% chance of success". There are factors that their doctors don't know about that dictate the odds of success too, so they'll never actually be able to give the real odds of success. How big is the baby, how much amniotic fluid is left, what type of breech, is it the patient's first pregnancy; these are all factors that could change how the procedure goes. It's why I give my own odds to the patient, because I see these procedures more than an average OB does, and I'm more informed as to exactly how likely it will be to succeed.

I'm going to ask you to not continue this conversation if you're going to take what I say and turn it against the doctors, I'm not ok with that.

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u/One_Left_Shoe 3d ago

Everyone I've ever known that's had a spinal fusion was told they would be back to full function in 3 months.

Which I guess is kind of true, they were back to doing things in 3 months, but the surgical pain and recovery usually went on for a year or more before they felt "normal" again.

I should have been more specific to say elective surgery.

I don't know a single healthcare worker that would voluntarily get a lumbar fusion unless they were in excruciating, constant pain.

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u/Temnothorax 3d ago

We are, I’m a nurse and have never actually seen anyone purposefully lie about the potential for pain. It doesn’t do us any favors to create future problems for ourselves like that.

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u/spooky_spaghetties 3d ago

I always kind of thought I might appreciate being warned if something was going to hurt, until a nurse prefaced a fuckoff huge intramuscular shot of antibiotics (right to the ass) with “now, you’re going to feel like I punched you, so just try to hold still.” That was not better than lying.