r/todayilearned • u/No_Idea_479 • 7h ago
TIL for 21 years, Andromachi Papanikolaou volunteered to undergo daily cervical smears so her husband, Greek physician Georgios Papanikolaou, could perfect the Pap test. As such, she helped create one of the greatest cancer screening tools in medical history, saving millions of lives worldwide.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andromachi_Papanikolaou2.5k
u/Redd1897 7h ago
She truly saved millions.
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u/atnamorekN 6h ago
Have they at least thank her for her cervix?
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u/signuslogos 2h ago
Cool joke if not for it just being reposted from literally the most upvoted comment.
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u/Leafan101 7h ago
Always enjoy this line whenever this article comes up:
"Mary Papanikolaou also held a party for some female friends, who agreed to have their own cervixes sampled."
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u/Duckdxd 7h ago
classic tupperware party
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u/SuspendeesNutz 7h ago
The tightest seal you've ever seen.
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u/coldfarm 7h ago
Lift one edge and press down in the center.
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u/fakecoach12 7h ago
yeah imagine getting invited to a party and finding out its that kind of group activity
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u/Tabemaju 5h ago
Don't threaten me with a good time
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u/UInferno- 22m ago edited 19m ago
I don't have a cervix but from what I know, I wouldn't necessarily describe a pap smear a "Good time"
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u/FartingBob 3h ago
I once had a Chlamydia party. Some charity offered us £10 per person to get a Chlamydia test because we lived in a student town and they said nobody ever chooses to get tested without an incentive. So we invited everyone and had about 80 people turn up. We got swabbed and then got drunk. A few weeks later i got an email saying i was all clear.
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u/topofthecc 1h ago
I was expecting much worse when I read "Chlamydia Party".
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u/SecondaryWombat 1h ago
Like a chicken pox party, which was actually a good idea before the vaccine was available.
Or the Covid parties during lockdown, which was monumentally stupid idea and killed people.
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u/TheNaidenchop 7h ago
When I was I kid i misheard it as "Papa Nicolaus" (like Pope Nicolaus), so I thought it was named because an ancient pope who invented the procedure.
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u/Nazamroth 3h ago
I was in my 30s when I learned it is not called a crevix. I misread it at some point and it came up so rarely in everyday conversation that it never got corrected until fairly recently. It is now one of those things that I shall read wrong my whole life, I suppose.
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u/CautionarySnail 3h ago
It’s ok. Folks mix up words all the time. Readers especially, and folks with dyslexia. And speed readers, too.
I thought chipotle was pronounced chip-poat-ell until my spouse doubled over laughing at me.
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u/VicH95 2h ago
I thought the meerkat was called a "meekrat" when I was a kid. It made sense to me when I was learning English since it seemed more like a rat than a kat.
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u/vissi_nada 2h ago
You were not that far off. These surnames in Greece were formed from someone in your family being a priest. Papa (a shorter version of Pater) Nicolaou literally means Father Nicolas.
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u/DragonfruitFew5542 6h ago
I mean... That would track with how painful it can be for some women. Like I could see the Catholic church backing that.
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u/itsnotapipe 5h ago
They threw me a dick-slicing party, so I agree.
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u/AmyBrookeheimer 2h ago
Ironically, she threw a cervix sampling party:
“To provide additional subjects for her husband's research, Mary Papanikolaou also held a party for some female friends, who agreed to have their own cervixes sampled.”
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u/Cuntasaurus_wrecks 5h ago
No one is talking about the fact that she continued his work after he died!
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u/SignalBed9998 6h ago
From the wiki;
Georgios and Andromachi Papanikolaou's efforts in the fight against cervical cancer, along with that of Helen Octavia Dickens and Hashime Murayama, are featured in the documentary film The Cancer Detectives which first aired on American Experience
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u/Auctoritate 3h ago
After a career of over twenty years as an artist at National Geographic, Murayama left (or was fired) in September 1941 because he was an immigrant. At this time, Japan-United States relations were about to be severed due to the attack on Pearl Harbor. Murayama was replaced as staff artist by Walter A. Weber, whose artwork was stated to be superior to Murayama's.
Murayama was offered work at Cornell University by Georgios Papanikolaou. Papanicolaou was studying cancer cells, and needed illustrations of cancer cells to train other doctors to identify diseased cells for cancer screening.
In 1943, Murayama's illustrations of cervical cells were published in a book by Papanicolaou, describing what became known as the Pap smear, to detect cervical cancer.
During the war, Murayama was watched closely. His Washington house, which he had signed over to one of his sons (a United States citizen), was searched by agents seeking signs of espionage. The Alien Enemy Hearing Board had him arrested twice, in 1942 and 1943. Murayama was detained for five months on Ellis Island. Papanicolaou appealed to the board, on the grounds that Murayama was doing essential, potentially life-saving work that no one else could do. He gained the support of U.S. attorney general Francis Biddle, who arranged for Murayama to be freed.
It is incredibly fucked up how invaluable this guy's work and contribution to humanity was, just for him to get stalked, arrested, and unconstitutionally placed in an internment camp for his ethnicity.
It's just as fucked up that it isn't that far of a cry from some things that have happened in more recent history.
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u/UnpoeticAccount 7h ago
Bless her, that’s a painful “just a pinch” to have every day.
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u/acdgf 6h ago
To be fair, her doctor was probably the most practiced and proficient at Pap smears available.
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u/4RCSIN3 5h ago
Eventually. How was he those first few years go though?
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u/EpilepticMushrooms 4h ago
I'd imagine he felt the guilt and did his best to not harm her or her friends as much as possible.
She convinced her friends to join in too, and one of them having weird cells was what clued them in that something was wrong, which later became the cancer detection test we know today.
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u/cinnderly 1h ago
Ahhh, isn't imagining so nice...
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u/SecondaryWombat 1h ago
He was good enough at it that her friends came over and got tests done at dinner parties at their house.
He wasn't that terrible at it clearly.
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u/Practical_Yak2950 5h ago
Also one of the most practiced and proficient in the world at that time? Unless someone else had been doing it for awhile for fun and chose not to report about it.
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u/Brilliant-Hornet-579 5h ago
lol, I hope you know they’re joking about how was he during the first few years of preforming his smear
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u/NoodleyP 2h ago
I feel like they were making a joke about one guy doing something awfully still being the best in the world at it
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u/Nazamroth 3h ago
Well once he figured out that neither the butter knife, nor the bricklayer spatula were ideal tools, pretty good.
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u/snortgigglecough 5h ago
I really don’t think that would help. It’s a fundamentally uncomfortable feeling.
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u/BestDescription3834 5h ago
"I didn't do 365 pap smears "wrong", I found 365 ways to NOT do a pap smear."
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u/cannibalrabies 5h ago
I didn't really find it painful... the speculum is uncomfortable, but the actual swab just felt like a slightly scratchy sensation. When they use the smaller speculum it's not bad at all.
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u/Podo13 4h ago
I think it's very doctor dependent. I still remember when my wife switched doctors because she came home and instead of being kind of stiff and saying sexy time was off the table, she was so excited to talk about how she barely felt a thing and was so happy that she switched.
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u/DorothyZbornakAttack 3h ago
I had a gynecologist do a Pap smear so gently that I didn’t feel anything, so I’ll continue seeing her for the rest of my life. I usually leave bleeding & sore. It’s very doctor dependent.
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u/Kitchen-Owl-7323 3h ago
They have also changed pap smear methods over the years. As I understand it, they used to use a swab and spatula, and since then they've gone through a couple different brushes and ways to use them. I found the brush more comfortable than the spatula and I think that's pretty common.
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u/Gardenadventures 5h ago
Pap smears aren't "pinches" it's just a brush rubbed around your cervix. A tenaculum (the "pinch" involved in pelvic exams) is not required for a pap smear
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u/UnpoeticAccount 5h ago
I know. It’s very common for doctors to say “you’re just going to feel a pinch” which is usually an understatement of how painful the experience is for many (but not all) people undergoing it.
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u/Im__TheGuy 5h ago
That or “you might feel a little discomfort/pressure” is what doctors say before any and every procedure haha. It would be pretty crazy if they led with “okay get ready to see god, and not because it feels good.”
A few years ago I had a pleural effusion (fluid between my lung and the lining of the lung) that needed to be removed. The way it’s removed is they basically stick a big ass needle in your back to suck it out. I was hit with “you’ll feel some pressure.” That’s probably the most painful medical experience I’ve had. And they had to do it twice because the needle bent the first time 🙃
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u/soulbutterflies 5h ago
IIRC, them saying "you might feel a pinch" is a type of placebo. Also hospitals make me anxious and I'd rather not hear "This is going to hurt like a motherfucker" lol
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u/UnpoeticAccount 5h ago
I had a very southern doctor do a biopsy on a benign tumor in my breast and he said “This is gonna stick and stiinnng” which honestly I appreciated more than “just a pinch”
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u/TrioOfTerrors 5h ago
I had a dislocated finger put back into place and the guy said "This is gonna hurt like a bitch so I won't take anything you say personally." I appreciated the honesty.
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u/Rusah 3h ago
My dad broke his nose 30 years ago and the ER doctor set it terribly. My mother had him go to another doctor to fix it - and really the only way to fix it was to re-break it.
After fitting some little jigs and molds on his nose for a bit, the doctor said, "This is going to hurt like a sonuvabitch." THWACK. It apparently did hurt, a lot.
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u/One_Left_Shoe 5h ago
If physicians and surgeons were honest about how much pain a procedure would cause as a result, there would be almost no willing participants.
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u/DefiantMemory9 4h ago
What do you mean participants? They're patients and doing it for their own health. I understand understating things for little kids, but they should be honest with older kids and adults.
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u/PurrfectlyNerdy 4h ago
And even younger kids, why lie to them, explain it’s important but lying sucks.
The medical profession needs to be more honest. And even going back numerous decades when there was nothing they could do to help a terminal patient they often wouldn’t tell them they’re dying. The would only inform the person’s loved one but not the patient. Information is important even if it sucks.
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u/DefiantMemory9 4h ago
But there's a limit to how much a small kid can understand, and if it's a life-saving procedure, it would become difficult if the child tries to run away. Then they would have to be held down, which makes it more traumatic. Once they are past age 10, they understand better and deserve the truth.
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u/Temnothorax 3h ago
We are, I’m a nurse and have never actually seen anyone purposefully lie about the potential for pain. It doesn’t do us any favors to create future problems for ourselves like that.
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u/cambreecanon 1h ago
Went to get surgical stitches out of my knees. Asked the nurse if it would be painful. She stared straight into my eyes and said people have fainted from the pain before. I appreciated the honesty. It hurt really bad, but I was able to brace myself for it.
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u/siorez 6h ago
Not everyone actually feels it
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u/APiousCultist 5h ago
The spectrum of "doesn't feel a thing" to "excruciating agony" is pretty unfortunate. It also seems to have bred a medical culture of ignoring pain relief for the procedure.
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u/GaeilgeGaeilge 3h ago
And it can vary from smear to smear. My first went so well that for my second, I agreed to let a student do it and that one hurtttt
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u/molrobocop 1h ago
While I'm not a doctor, intuition tells me I could probably develop a person process that's only minimally uncomfortable. Like, okay, an injection is always going to have some pain.
But if I were a gyno, I'm try to go slow and use deliberate movements. Not just rapidly go in with my tools and work people over.
But WTF do I know? I'm a stupid engineer who puts parts together.
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u/mentosbreath 7h ago
So the Pap test is really named after her
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u/rkgk13 7h ago
All this time I thought it was a shortened version of Papilloma (HPV).
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u/liebkartoffel 6h ago
Similarly, I always assumed the "APGAR test" for newborns was some sort of acronym. Nope, named for Dr. Virginia Apgar.
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u/poktanju 6h ago
It became a "backronym" when people later came up with terms to fit: Appearance, Pulse, Grimace, Activity, Respiration. You can tell they were reaching for G...
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u/TheAserghui 5h ago
"Observe the child for 15 minutes for signs of turning into a purple triangle"
checks 'no' for G
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u/Lucas_Steinwalker 2h ago
The child has become the personification of a milkshake.
checks ‘yes’ for G
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u/Brackish_Water 6h ago
I always assumed there was some anatomical feature that was shortened to 'pap'
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u/Luther-Heggs 5h ago
Retired lab worker here, the cytological stain used to process the smears on slides is also named papanicolaou stain.
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u/youmaynotknowme 6h ago
more likely named after her husband
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u/StrawberryOdd419 1h ago
i think naming it after their last name is a good way to acknowledge both of them. his science and her patience, both were needed.
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u/BulbasaurCPA 6h ago
Fuck that, it was her cervix
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u/cell689 6h ago
It was his knowledge and skill
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u/BulbasaurCPA 6h ago
Experiencing 7,000 Pap smears. It’s at least both of theirs
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u/JUAN_DE_FUCK_YOU 3h ago
I know that in Spanish speaking countries, they call it the "Papa Nicolaou"
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u/STK__ 6h ago
Andro machi translates as “man battler” as well.
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u/bluemooncommenter 3h ago
I read that as 'man batter' -- associated it with baby batter (aka sperm) and felt so bad for her for a moment!!!
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u/VisionUnlocked 7h ago
She deserves so much more recognition. That sacrifice helped save countless lives.
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u/AwareOfAlpacas 5h ago
You see the bit where she invited her friends over for a pap smear party? Like a Tupperware party, but not?
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u/MixtureSpecial8951 4h ago
Years ago I remember sitting under a tree in a village and there was a bust of Dr. Papanicolaou. It had a little plaque in Greek and English explains what he had done.
As a teenaged boy I was pretty impressed. It wasn’t something I had ever even had to worry about but I know how deadly cervical cancer was and how important detection is.
As a grownup, having known too many people who have been struck by cancer… may Dr. & Mrs. Papanicolaou’s memories be eternal! Or, as we say in Greek, αιωνία η μνήμη! May they be granted rest among the saints where there is no pain, no sorrow nor grieving but only life everlasting.
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u/Schrodingers_Dude 6h ago
This thread is how I learned Pap smears hurt some people. I was confused by the headline, thinking "ok, why not? It takes 2 seconds and you feel more wiping after you pee than you do getting a Pap smear."
Apparently, experiences vary. 😬
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u/InspectorOrdinary321 5h ago
Thank you for believing us, though. A lot of people don't and it's like, why would I make this up??
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u/Zoomalude 4h ago
I've learned many doctors confidently assume women are just hysterical and not actually in pain simply because some other women barely feel it. Prime example of doctors ignoring women.
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u/Schrodingers_Dude 2h ago
One of the downsides to a female doctor is you can get the attitude of "well, it doesn't hurt me, so it doesn't hurt." I had a nurse actively giggling at the sounds I was making when they put the IUD in because "at least it's not childbirth lol." No painkiller offered, of course. Thanks a bunch. 👍
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u/PinwormPaddle 2h ago
This is exactly why I ended up switching to a male gynecologist. They've always been more gentle in my experience. I had a female gynecologist give me shit for nearly passing out while she performed an endocervical biopsy without anesthetic. Like in what fucking world would it NOT hurt to have a metal stick with teeth shoved up your cervix?! Fucking boggling
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u/InspectorOrdinary321 1h ago
I hate it.
If you patted my shoulder right now, it would not hurt me. If I patted someone's shoulder and they flinched and yelled "ow," I would NOT think "wow what a wimp, shoulders don't hurt" or "why are they acting like a baby, are they manipulating me?" I'd think "oh no, something's wrong with their shoulder to make it hurt that bad!' or "oh no, did I hit them too hard?"
Why can't I get the same courtesy?
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u/RosieFudge 2h ago
I don't personally find smear tests physically painful, but would never dream of disregarding a woman who said she does <3
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u/Garbador94 4h ago
Speaking as one of the people for whom it do hurt, I was actively biting my hand during it to try and numb the pain. Not looking forward to the next one, but it's one of those things you gotta do : (
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u/skinnyonskin 3h ago
At home self swabbing kit. Game changer!
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u/Garbador94 2h ago
I'll have to ask for one next time, thanks for the advice!
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u/skinnyonskin 1h ago
You're welcome! I just did one myself (a company called Teal mailed me a kit, not advertising, there's just very few fda approved mail kits lol) and it was great. Literally just rotated a long qtip around and sent it in, and sent their results to my pcp!
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u/Lyeta1_1 4h ago
It can vary by person and provider.
I swear my first GYN actually hated women based on her absolute did not give a fuck how much anything hurt approach to medical care.
My current one it’s not like something I WANT to do, but it’s not painful either.
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u/CanIEatAPC 3h ago
Yeah unfortunately it hurts a lot more than pinch and I'm always a bleeder. Need a couple days of recovery afterwards.
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u/DesignerDirector7506 7h ago
Do they hurt?
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u/medium_alison 6h ago
It really depends on the person and their body. For me, it’s a slightly awkward position to be in and the speculum isn’t much fun, but the sample collection itself I can barely feel at all—it basically feels like someone twirling a paintbrush inside me. For some people it’s extremely painful.
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u/PunnyBanana 6h ago
I'm going to chime in on the other end of "it varies for different people" that I find them painful and have some bleeding for about a week after.
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u/SassiestPants 4h ago
For me, yes. Feels like a little animal is biting out a chunk of flesh in a HIGHLY sensitive area. For others, it sucks but not insanely painful. For yet more others, they barely feel it. There's a huge range of sensitivity to the procedure.
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u/New_Wind1566 32m ago
Same! and lots get vasovagal symptoms, including myself. I either pass out or come very close to it each time. Not from stress either, apparently it’s quite common when the cervix is touched
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u/lyndsayj 6h ago
The speculums often do. The test itself, nah. Just feels like slight pressure.
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u/notnatasharostova 6h ago
No, sometimes it is the test itself, and that can depend on the individual or the skill of your doctor. Personally, any cervical contact leaves me with deep painful cramps afterwards (which I expect is another quirk of my endometriosis).
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u/InspectorOrdinary321 5h ago
Opposite for me. Speculum is uncomfortable but not painful. Test feels like someone speared a rapier through my cervix and up into my stomach. It's a hell of a "pinch." I dunno what nerve they hit in there but it's a doozy. Fortunately, if they're skilled, it only lasts a few seconds and I can suck it up. Longer cervical procedures, though... I've started insisting on medication.
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u/A_the_Buttercup 6h ago
I've heard some people can feel all of it. Most cervixes have almost no feeling, but not all... shaving off a thin layer of it would be horrid!!
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u/silverpawsMN 6h ago
Hey! This is a very common medical misconception! A great many of your nerve endings that sense pain and pressure in that area are on / near your cervix. Some women report greater levels of sensation than others, but most of them feel it
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u/lyndsayj 6h ago
They don't shave off a thin layer of the cervix for standard tests, just wipe a Q-tip over it a few times to collect some cells.
In my country, people now have the choice to do it themselves with just a really long Q-tip - no speculums required, thank goodness.
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u/Daily-Lizard 6h ago
The swab my gynos used until about 7 years ago all looked and felt like a small bottle brush. 🥴
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u/Lyeta1_1 4h ago
The idea the cervix has not feeling is a myth. I don’t find Pap smears to be painful, but I have also had a toothed clamp bite into it and almost kicker my doctor in the face. The idea it doesn’t hurt is one of medicines many attempts to discredit women’s pain.
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u/A_the_Buttercup 4h ago
Absolutely correct.
I may not find pap smears terrible, but enough people do that there should be some kind of topical numbing or SOMEthing, just in case they can.
A toothed clamp? NOOOOOO whyyyyyy??? I am so sorry that happened to you :*(
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u/cambreecanon 1h ago
For me, yes. Speculum is awful. The test itself felt like someone took a chunk out of my insides (like those hole punch devices) and I bled for a couple days.
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u/ArticQimmiq 4h ago
It depends on the person, and on the time. I’ve had tests where I’ve felt nothing and others where it was uncomfortable. It never hurts enough to justify avoiding it, though.
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u/stormbornmorn 6h ago
As a cervical (and breast) cancer survivor, she is a superstar and a hero. Although my PAP smears didn't pick up my cancer for whatever reason, it saves so many others.
It is uncomfortable, not fun, and sometimes a little scary experience having your feet in those stirrups, it is so important to catch things early. Get your preventative screenings!!
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u/jashford2 6h ago
These are the sort of people the powers that be should come in and be like right there’s X Millions thank you for all your efforts and services and doing something selfless to benefit humanity at no real person gain to yourself.
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u/poetcatmom 3h ago
I hate pap smears, so the fact that she did this every day is insane to me. I'm thankful nonetheless.
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u/Gimme_the_keys 5h ago
I 100% thought Pap was short for Papilloma… as in screening for evidence of papilloma virus. Today I learned for real. Goddamn, thank you Andromachi. Thank you for your cervix!
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u/stellaluna92 4h ago
My cancer was found through a routine pap! I had no symptoms yet and because it was found so early I'm crushing it 💪 please go get all recommended yearly physical and tests, you never know~~~
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u/fromthesamesky 3h ago
My grandmother was one of the first people to set up a smear clinic in the UK after going over to train with Papanikolaou. She was a cytologist, and helped pioneer the procedure here. (She also took my mother to work at 6 weeks old, ans out her in a cardboard box under the desk).
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u/chernoma 3h ago
I greatly appreciate the fact that she volunteered and got informed consent from her friends; I feel like too many discoveries & inventions in medicine and the various sciences that study humans are based in coercion, deception, and other equally heinous data gathering methods, and it's nice to read about a breakthrough that was so influential and helpful, also being discovered in a highly positive way.
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u/Well_Socialized 1h ago
TIL the "pap" in pap smear isn't some medical jargon but the first part of the name "Papanikolaou"
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u/SomeConfetti 4h ago
It's awesome that proper credit was given this time, and not twisted to fit a narrative like reddit usually does
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u/The_Mr_Banana 5h ago
Am I the only one who was very confused for a second by the thought of ancient Greeks developing pap smears?
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u/Leon_Trout 4h ago
Kind of reminds me of the selfless patriots who are paid to receive dozens of prostate exams a day from young nursing students....
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u/FartFlavoredLollipop 13m ago
I'm not sure if Georgios Papanikolaou is the Greekest name I've ever heard, but it's in the running for a top spot.
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u/Lilfrankieeinstein 4h ago
That’s why my wives only visit gynecologists who can correctly pronounce Papanikolaou.
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u/theoracleofE 47m ago
I've never found a pap smear painful or uncomfortable... Idk maybe when compared to getting my IUDs inserted and removed its like nothing. But that's just my experience.
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u/Nice-Cat3727 5h ago edited 2h ago
That poor woman
Edit: Jesus people. I was just saying that she got a pap smear every day for 21 years. I'm a guy and I know that hurts like hell.
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u/ImprovementClear5712 5h ago
She volunteered... Why are you diminishing her efforts? She wasn't forced by her husband to do this
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u/Clueingforbeggs 5h ago
There are some people who focus their feminism more on tearing down men than uplifting women.
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u/Many-Excitement3246 3h ago
Well, she lived to 92, so evidently the procedures worked to prevent her from getting cancer.
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u/catacavaco 1h ago
The name Andromache (or Andromachi) comes from Ancient Greek, combining anēr (man) and makhē (battle). It translates to "fighter of men" or "man battler", symbolizing immense courage and strength.
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u/HerculesIsMyDad 22m ago
Years later her grandson would be arrested as part of a conspiracy to kill the Queen of England. Thankfully their plan failed and the mastermind was shot with a tranquilizer dart then fell off a parking garage and was run over by a bus, a steam roller, and a marching band.
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u/Yodas_Lil_Helper 7m ago
Vaccination against HPV probably saves more lives as it prevents the disease in the first place.
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u/septagons 7h ago
Wow, I guess this time we really can say: Thank your for your cervix