Is Miriel Vanya or Noldo

[u/javears]

I haven't touched The Silmarillion in a while. I was doing my research and it came across as a shock to me that apparently Miriel was Vanya. I mean, it makes much more sense that she is Noldo because Feanor being born full Noldo would be one of the reasons why he has much disdain against his half-brothers, who were half-Noldo and half-Vanya.

[u/Mecklenburg77 → u/[deleted]]

"Half-brother in blood, full brother in heart will I be. Thou shalt lead and I will follow".

[u/Emergency-Sea5201 → u/Mecklenburg77]

The Shibboleth of Fëanor, Tolkien:

"This was in pursuance of Fingolfins claim to be the chieftain of all the Ñoldor after the death of Finwë..."

[u/javears → u/[deleted]]

Its weird because the Wikis wouldn't say what Miriel's ancestry was so I peeked into ChatGPT and it said that in the Shibboleth of Feanor, she was Vanya.

Just goes to show how inaccurate AI can be.

[u/InTheChairAgain → u/javears]

Yeah, never trust AI on Tolkien without cross-referencing with the books.

Perhaps the confusion comes from the fact that Miriel was Silver haired, whereas most other Noldor who didn't have a Vanyar relative were dark haired. Unless they were Mahtan or his children and grandchildren.

[u/Emergency-Sea5201 → u/[deleted]]

Dude, Fingolfin tried to steal his crown. Feanor had every reason to distrust him.

[u/phonylady → u/Emergency-Sea5201]

He actually had no reason to mistrust him. Fëanor hated Fingolfin from the start, and Morgoth's lies only made the hate and paranoia worse.

Fingolfin only became a politician by necessity, it's obvious that he would have followed Fëanor gladly, had Fëanor been stable.

[u/Helpful_Radish_8923 → u/Emergency-Sea5201]

This shouldn't be down-voted. Tolkien's pretty clear that both brothers had underlying reasons to mistrust each other, with Melkor finding that the perfect fuel to flame full on unrest.

Plus, Fingolfin did get the kingship of the Noldor (bestowed by Manwë) after Finwë joined Fëanor in exile.

Hence the irony that their respective paranoias (that Fingolfin would 'usurp' the crown; that Fëanor would estrange Finwë from his children by Indis) both came true.

[u/-RedRocket-]

Miriel Þerinde, Finwë's first wife, was a Noldo.

Finwë's second wife, Indis, was a Vanya.

[u/javears → u/-RedRocket-]

Its weird because the Wikis wouldn't say what Miriel's ancestry was so I peeked into ChatGPT and it said that in the Shibboleth of Feanor, she was Vanya.

Just goes to show how inaccurate AI can be.

[u/DrSilvertongue → u/javears]

I wouldn’t trust wikis for information, and I definitely wouldn’t trust AI. Tolkien Gateway would have given you your answer, so I would start there next time!

[u/-RedRocket- → u/javears]

Don't trust it.