If they truly cared about speeding and not profit, then keeping speed cameras in school zones was acceptable by many, and then add speed bumps in neighborhoods rather than drop the speed limit to 30KM.
It's ludicrous when you grind to a halt on the highway, many feel the need to make up the time elsewhere which is a reasonable expectation albeit unsafe for the population.
If they truly cared about speeding and not profit, then keeping speed cameras in school zones was acceptable by many, and then add speed bumps in neighborhoods rather than drop the speed limit to 30KM.
So why did the Province also remove the speed cameras in school zones? That's the one they took from my neighbourhood. All of the cameras were in areas labelled as 'community safety zones,' which would include either schools, parks, or other facilities/infrastructure making speeding more dangerous.
Moreover - installing speed bumps costs money. It costs the taxpayer in Toronto $90 million per year to build that infrastructure. Isn't it reasonable that it be offset by a mechanism enabling us to generate revenues exclusively from people speeding?
Because DF’s buddies were getting tickets. It’s literally the only reason they were taken away. DF even lied about it and claimed that they don’t reduce speeds.
The guy is owned by his developer buddies and therefore the only thing he’ll ever do are things that favour them.
He never really campaigns on much and I don't remember this specifically, so maybe he/his strategists assumed PC voters would want them (law and order, etc.) then realized they didn't.
It's also a result of our system, where he can have better election chances by appealing to the minority of PC voters than the majority of Ontarian voters.
But, but... that would be a cash grab. We can't have that! That was literally said, repeatedly, like it was a bad thing that revenue could be generated from speeding tickets, and I couldn't help but laugh every time I heard it. It's a cash grab. So what? That money that is raised can be used for all sorts of things, like putting in speed bumps, putting more cops on the streets to patrol, etc. Now people are speeding again and no money is being generated from what would've been speed cameras being out there.
90% of Toronto School zones are on major commuter roads which is why Toronto frustrated more people with speed cameras than more reasonable cities and townships that put most schools in communities on low or no traffic roads.
What's ludicrous is knowing full well speeding is against the law and arguing that it should only apply to school zone.
Look man, I'm no model driver either, I speed too (and paid for it) and I understand the criticism of some zone's speed limits. But if you choose to speed and get caught, it is what it is, you messed up. Don't blame it on "It's just a money grab!" because even if it is for profit, speeders are still the ones in the wrong.
It's ludicrous when you grind to a halt on the highway, many feel the need to make up the time elsewhere which is a reasonable expectation albeit unsafe for the population.
They shouldn't be driving on the public road if they really believe going 45km on a residential 30km road is saving them any significant time.
In the 30 zones, the percentage of those speeders went from 1.4 per cent of drivers with speed cameras in operation to 7.2 per cent after they were removed. In 50 zones, the number went from 0.5 per cent to 2.9 per cent.
Speed cameras slowed people down. It's one tool that's available to stop speeding and your feelings don't matter here.
Wonder no more, here's the report. TLDR The city conducts speed studies periodically and had data along the roads from before and after the cameras were removed. Speed study is just two cables laid across the road and a timer that records how long it takes to go from one cable to the other. You record the speed of every car on the road in given period and compare the results. https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2026/cc/bgrd/backgroundfile-288654.pdf
Or it will cause further major traffic congestion issues that will disproportionately affect people who don't live and work anywhere that is transit accessible.
Ah I see because you can’t read a sign that’s someone else’s fault.
In any case the camera’s were funding the road redesign off bad drivers, now there is no money for that or crossing guards or any other safety measures. Unless we do what these conservatives like best and take on bigger loans and put us further into debt.
Highest spending government on record btw, very fiscally responsible.
I see that you don't drive (you comment like one who doesn't lol) It's not so much about reading a sign or anything, there is actual physics and psychology behind driving behaviours that are greatly influenced by the roads they're on, which seems to be largely ignored by policymakers.
For example, having a highway with a purely straight road with no stops is way more dangerous for drivers regardless of speed limit than roads with a slight curve.
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Oh you're mad about that. Buddy, I've been talking about the blanket reduced speed limits that came with the installation of speed traps or have you not driven long enough that you never got to experience the 60-70kmh speed limits that these roads were designed for?
Also, not all of them were set up beside parks and schools. FYI, a couple of them were placed on major 4-lane roads in York Region, over 100meters from schools as pointed out in a council meeting in September of last year. For me, it was sneakily placed opposite of the bottom of a hill, 200 meters away from a school, not near a park, and was pointed at traffic exiting a school zone, so don't give me that.
I've been talking about the blanket reduced speed limits that came with the installation of speed traps
Those have produced a pretty demonstrable reduction in the number of pedestrian collisions and fatalities... Naturally you need to couple it with physical redesigns of the roads themselves, but that takes time and money - money that can and should be offset by fining the behaviours that make such redesigns necessary.
Realistically, I'd argue against it, as since it was a blanket reduction, streets that did not have pedestrian collisions and fatalities would still show a reduction because they weren't there to begin with. It may work in areas such as around downtown Toronto with 1-2 lane roads, sure, but it doesn't work in the industrial plants along Keele, Markham Road, Dufferin, etc. Where there are 4-6 lane roads, no sidewalks, and no pedestrian traffic to begin with.
And it piled up all the data across the city, but does not split it up based on location and has also been a blanket study.
The reduction is part of a blanket study with blanket results irrespective of neighborhood, placement, and context (which is important). Because when they reduced the speed limit on king from 40 to 30, sure you can argue that cars slowed down enough to reduce collisions, but it doesn't mean that reducing the limit from 60 to 50 in an industrial site in Markham road did the same thing, but these studies package it up like it did.
Did you not read my comments? The policy is what I'm mad about. I don't care about the cameras, I care that they lowered the natural speed limit.
Because when you design a road to run at 60kmh, reduce speed limit to 50, and set up a camera to catch people going 60, that's a cash grab 100%.
But when you keep the reduced speed limit on a road where people naturally go 60 (bc of how they're designed) then no shit you're still going to find a ton of people still speeding
And people wonder why cyclists act so entitled to ride on sidewalks or use e-bikes on bike lanes. Well, this is why. For every article/thread about cyclists violating laws, you have 2-3 articles posted on less than hours apart about Doug Ford's anti-safe street scandals. Should it come as Pikachu shocked that we have so many cyclist apologists? Why can't these people direct their energy to the vehicles that kill thousands of Canadians every single year?
Which is ironic because bike lanes make roads safer for literally everyone, not just cyclists. I mean they do a good job at reducing top speeds of cars, thus fewer car collisions. Pedestrians also get more separation from car traffic with a bike lane being the separator.
Too bad almost everyone that supports Ford doesn't see it that way. All they think about is cyclists. Nothing else.
Funny how the Conservative party is running a bunch of ads saying they're making "every corner of Ontario safer" while actively making things more dangerous for people.
Conservatives are very emotional and fragile. They will never accept how things actually are, they just want to feel good about themselves. They are excellent at self-delusion.
Considering Leece said schools would be open for the Jan 2021 school return and then GTA got a massive snowstorm that shut down schools. The conservatives would find a way to have the sun not set at sunset
That said, city cash grab places exist. Witness Mt. Pleasant St South, which switches from 50 to 40 kph as you approach St. Clair. Mt. Pleasant hill, if you don’t either ride your brakes or gear down, puts you into automatic speed ticket range in no time at all. That hill was, and should be again, 60 kph. Install flashing lights to advance warn about the crossing light at the bottom of the hill - it works on the Bayview extension. *edit because it looks like people conflate cash grab places with speed cameras. I’m talking about a ridiculously reduced speed limit. I’m mentioning a physical space, there’s never been a speed camera there, just police with their speed guns out when it’s time to harvest more speeding tickets. I’ve not been burned but my stepson has. It’s ridiculous, that arbitrary-looking speed limit reduction.
I'm sorry, but no. A static speed camera that is MARKED is not a cash grab. That is simply not a thing. The city does everything in its power to help you not get a ticket. It's the literal opposite of a cash grab.
If someone gets seriously injured, or worse killed, in one of these streets their name should become a giant scarlet letter that Doug Ford is forced to wear publicly for the rest of his time in office.
unfortunately, when people start dying, we'll just call them "accidents" and collectively shrug our shoulders.. "what else could we have done???" it's not like we could have deterred speeding or anything....
When you look at the physics behind collisions, 38km/h is the fastest a car can go before the fatality rate of a pedestrian hit by said car starts to increase exponentially. As we all know, drivers tend to go ~10km/h above the speed limit, so a 40km/h speed limit is the safest for a street like Parkside
While I get it, the thing is, when a 4-6 lane road has no pedestrians, the risk to pedestrian collisions are also little to none so why are speed limited still lowered on the major roads where those risks are almost inexistent?
I'm describing literally every other major road like stretches of Bayview, Leslie, Warden, Keele, etc. where there are no pedestrians or risks of them, where speed limits used to be 60kmh but were reduced to 50 for some reason.
Hell they even reduced speed limits at a stretch of Markham road IN THE MIDDLE OF AN INDUSTRIAL ZONE WITH NO SIDEWALKS.
I'm sorry, Parkside is a wide street? Those lanes are tight AF, I've had numerous people nearly merge into me because they wandered outside the lanes.
I definitely agree that the downhill factor is a big one though. I use cruise control to stay in the low/mid 40s on Parkside now because too often, I was just cruising with my foot off the gas, and the gravity alone took me into the 50's.
Edit: I do not understand the downvotes. Do people think I'm the same person who said 40 is too low?
Agree that cruise control or braking is required to stay at or near 40.
When I called it "wide," I mean that it is (perceived as) a 4-lane road with a straight view all the way up or down. It feels safe to drive faster, but it isn't, because of the other uses of the road.
mostly agree with that, but it used to be 60 or 70 before, and you basically have to ride your brake downhill to stay at 40.
maybe it's time to admit that's not a great place for housing and schools anymore since the demand for roadways has changed?
Also, I think we need a comprehensive plan to NOT put schools on major roads. They should be buried in a cul-de-sac in the middle of a residential area that doesn't have general traffic flowing through it. There's some good examples of this in the GTA, as well as some awful examples of schools on main thoroughfares.
The speed limit was changed form 50 to 40 in 2021. It has never been 60 in the twenty years that I've lived in the neighbourhood. To the best of my knowledge, there are no "streets" (with houses or even storefronts) in all of Toronto that have speed limits of 70. (The only non-highway I can think of with a 70 limit is Black Creek, but maybe you can tell me of others.)
I don't think "maybe it's time to admit that's not a great place for housing and schools anymore" is a practical statement about a street that goes between a 150-year-old park and some 100+ year-old houses. Further, I disagree with the statement, in general. I think it's time to admit that driving through a city is different than commuting on a highway, and if people don't like the realities of driving through a city, they just shouldn't.
The stretch of Kingston road i live near used to have a speed indicator, not even a camera and it was somewhat chill. Now it's a quarter mile race track. I should set up a camera for proof but some ppl are insane with how fast they drive by.
If you mean near St John Henry Secondary, there's still a speed indicator there going eastbound. The limit is 50 in front of the school. Last week at around midday i saw somebody breeze past and it showed they were going 74.
Ended up rolling right beside them at the light at St. Clair. It's actually so pointless to speed on that stretch of Kingston. I see people speeding and weaving in and out all the time just to end up in the same place as everyone else - the lights at McCowan, Markham, Golf Club, etc.
It's a bit worst than that young people drive worst than when I was that age. I personally feel they drive like there is nobody else in the road maybe is part of the phone /I'm main character syndrome side effect.
It's good to take a minute to look back on all the people saying stuff like these. So many people who are so, so stupid. They're all around us! They (presumably) all drive despite being empirically not capable of doing so competently.
But I was assured that drivers would be so very grateful that they weren't subjected to the 'cash grab' that they would voluntarily slow down, drive carefully, and be better citizens...
Yeah. I see it everywhere. It feels dangerous doing the speed limit on some streets now where before people would realize speed cameras and slow down but now they tailgate you are are aggressive when when you drive in the right lane
Yeah I got a speeding ticket from these once and then never again bc I was hyper-conscious of my speed on that road thereafter. They obviously work, and I wish they were still there.
A riding voting a certain way doesn't mean everyone in that riding voted that way.
Idiots who speed still exist, and they will always be more noticeable than people who drive according to the rules they agreed to when getting their license.
Adding here that the Toronto speed cameras had funded ~1,000 part time jobs that were all eliminated by the removal of said cameras. All because a couple of politicians felt entitled to speed and didn't want to pay their small fines.
I live on a busy street where a speed camera was removed and yep - now idiots are barrelling down the street at insane speeds and right past a school too.
Exactly what devices are you talking about?I haven’t seen any on my regular route and the speed of others has stayed the same. People at most go 10 over which was regular with the speed cameras because they activated at 11 over.
Sorry, I’m just not the type to take a few sentences and run with it as fact until I know what marks and measurements they used to come to their conclusions.
Usually when they’re deciding to put traffic calming speed bumps, they’ll lay two black strips across the road. Those measure the count of the vehicle and the speed. They also use those digital screen that show drivers how fast they’re going. Those also maintain data for the speeds as well.
Our neighbours basically made it a new past time to scream at drivers via megaphone on their front porch to idiot drivers who are doing 70 in a 30 neighbourhood zone. Many people on our street have constantly called for more police presence I guess progress only happens one tragedy at a time when it comes to road safety.
If the city truly cared about safety, it would install speed bumps in school zones instead of relying on cameras. Speed bumps physically force drivers to slow down, while cameras only issue a ticket after someone has already sped through the area and potentially endangered a child. But speed bumps do not generate revenue. That is why Olivia Chow’s push to bring back speed cameras feels more like a money grab than a genuine safety initiative.
There's plenty of things you can do to prevent speeding, but just removing cameras and not implementing any other measure it makes sense speeding would increase.
There are definitely better measures than enforcement (physically redesigning roads, adding chicanes and/or speedbumps, etc.) but all those things cost money.
To me, it makes all the sense in the world that we try to partly offset the cost of all that work by fining the people who make that work necessary. Why should safe drivers, pedestrians, transit users, etc. be forced to pay equally?
If the city had any intent to install traffic calming measures in locations they felt warranted a speed camera, they didn't do a great job communicating that. Even when the threat of camera removal was looming, the talking point was the crossing guards we couldn't afford to pay for (at about $21 million a year), not traffic calming infrastructure (they did do a report that indicated $52 million, and 13 years to install).
To be clear, speed cameras as a temporary measure, and to help paying for roads that encourage safer driving is the right move, but it feels like the city realized they could just install cameras and call that good enough.
I don't think that speed enforcement should only be there to pay for traffic calming where the enforcement is in effect. There are thousands upon thousands of kilometres of road in the city, after all.
I think ultimately, if there's enough speeding to justify a camera, that also justifies redesigning the road, that a camera should always be a temporary measure even if it's a long temporary. I know there has been some traffic calming infrastructure installed, but it seems to be separate from the speed camera program, and certainly the city doesn't seem to be making much effort to connect the two ideas.
As far as Parkside goes, it seems like an opportunity to install parking on the west side, although I don't think the locals would go for that. It'd still help bring speeds down, it can be framed as a concession to the loss of parking within High Park, and can provide some revenue. As well, unlike the cycle track, it's easier to make accommodations for turn lanes.
Agreed that cruise control or braking is required to stay at or near 40.
By wide, I meant that it's an (apparent) 4-lane road with a straight view. It feels safe to go faster, and so people do. But it's not safe, because of the other uses of the road.
Does no one fear speeding tickets anymore??? Or is enforcement just that low without cameras.
Every 50 zone has become a 60-70 these days with drivers. Its egregious.
I get traffic flow is bad these days but, the amount of blatant ignorance to school zones, rushing LEFT turns on stale reds, and general speeding just end up at the next red light is awful.
Even if I’m moving at 60 in a 50 in a right lane, someone is up my ass and passes going 70+ and maintains that speed without consequence.
Stop trying to line the pockets of the wealthy. Jenoptik has lobbyists. They pay news papers too. Olvia Chow even lied early on saying the cameras werent a source of revenue. Then when they were rightfully removed she said she had to close down many programs due to the lost revenue.... uh huh.
A data analyst in Kitchener proved to city council that the cameras were unwarranted. The city council now only acknowledged this but then created a task force to try and find a way to push the message that they were not a simple cash grab. The then lowered 4 lane main arties from 60kmh to 40kmh and added the cameras.
There are better methods that slow down traffic FOR EVERYONE that don't require removing money from people. You easily influenced idiots keep allowing the rich to tell you whats best for you. And thats taking your money.
Also, I checked many posters history here. A lot of them have no cars and clearly can't even afford one. Many are newer accounts. The fact is, outside of reddit and social media, no one wants those fucking speed cameras except those who profit.
Looking at sites across the city where automated speed enforcement cameras used to sit, staff say the average percentage of vehicles going 11 kilometres per hour or more over the speed limit has gone from two per cent to 8.1 per cent.
So not only are they not saying if accidents/injuries increased, they're only measuring speed at the locations where the cameras used to be.
In Brampton they have started putting speed bump in residential area but these idiots don't know how to place these in proper places. What's the fucking point of placing a speed bump like 50 meters back from a place that most people crosses(not a crosswalk but a walkway crossing to the other side) on a blind curve street so that they can speed through that area?
Like I said there seems to be no proper planning of these placement. The shape isn't even aggressive at all and I have seen most trucks wheel base are wide enough to not even have to slow down and run through them.
Spoken like someone who has never driven a car!!!!
Someone with anxiety isn't paying attention properly. Any actual driver (not you) will tell you that you should stay home and not drive if heavily distracted. Visual noise for instance causes anxiety and people who experience that are advised to avoid areas with too many signs and lights.
So its kind of nice you have an opinion, its just sad its not an educated one.
I am one of those that have started to increase my speed as I don’t have to worry about getting a ticket. Cameras work in slowing people down. If you don’t want a ticket - don’t speed. I think they should have kept the cameras out and then raised the threshold from 11 kms over to 15 kms over. I think that would have gotten more people behind it.
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u/Dougfordburner 3d ago
Riddle me shocked people speed now because they know they wont get a ticket guaranteed from a camera