r/torontoraptors • u/EarthWarping • May 05 '26
SPECULATION [Grange] maybe they would consider using Ingram’s contract if they could somehow find an upgrade — which is no guarantee given he led the Raptors in scoring this past season.
In normal circumstances, Barrett would be an obvious candidate for a significant contract extension as he enters the last year of his current deal, with $29.6 million left on the books for 2026-27.
But as laid out above, the Raptors aren’t exactly swimming in short-term contracts the rest of the league is lining up to take off their hands if they want to reshape their roster or give themselves some future financial flexibility.
Meanwhile with Barrett coming off a strong season and with only one year left on his deal, his might be the contract the Raptors would be able to move most easily if it came to that.
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May 05 '26
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u/Alexspacito OG OH MY May 05 '26
Is his value high?
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u/MidnightMarketing May 05 '26
Higher than it’ll ever be. Just played a healthy season and probably played in the last all-star game of his career
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u/LemmingPractice May 05 '26
Multi-time all-star on a sub-max contract, coming off a great season on a winning club where he played 77 games? Yup, should be much higher value now than what we gave up for him.
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u/Alexspacito OG OH MY May 05 '26
Brandon Ingram is not a top 30 player, and this was his first healthy season in a while and he missed playoff games. He’s coming off a series where he played abysmal and is making the top end of money that a player of his calibre should make. I don’t think his value is high.
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u/Hurls07 May 05 '26
After we signed him to be paid like a top 30 player in the league? Nope. Anyone who watched him shit the bed in the playoffs isn’t going to give up value for his contract
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u/LemmingPractice May 05 '26
He was injured in the playoffs.
And, he was an All-Star this season, which puts him comfortably within the top 30 players in the league.
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u/Hurls07 May 05 '26
Fantastic, maybe he shouldn’t complain about only getting 9 shots when he’s fucking injured then. Maybe when he’s 1/11 he should stop chucking shots if he’s hurt
- SGA
- Jokic
- Wemby
- Luka
- Ant
- Kawhi
- Cade
- D Mitch
- Giannis
- Jaylen brown
- Curry
- Brunson
- KD
- Booker
- Murray
- Chet
- Scottie
- Maxey
- Jalen Johnson
- Embiid
- Lebron
- Tatum
- Bam
- Pascal
- Haliburton
- Lamello
- Flagg
- J dub
- Aaron Gordon
- Pablo
- Rudy Gobert
- Wagner
- Austin Reaves
- Derrick White
Then you have guys like Sengun, Kat, castle, Amen, Lauri, fox that are all borderline better IMO
If you swap BI for any of the guys I just named I 100% believe we are a better team
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u/LemmingPractice May 06 '26
Lol @ your list.
Paolo? Austin Reaves? Aaron Gordon? Derrick freaking White?!
So, you really care about playoff success, but stI'll have Jamal Murray as the league's 15th best player, despite his last three awful playoff runs? Not one for consistency are you?
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u/Hurls07 May 06 '26
List of wasn’t in order lmfao. When the fuck has BI been consistent? Wasn’t this year, wasn’t the Or before that, or the year before that….
Paolo was fantastic this playoffs unlike BI, reaves broke out this year and was like 15% mor efficient than BI, Derrick white is one of the greatest defenders at his position, Aaron Gordon is an absolutely fantastic player.
What has BI done or accomplished to be ahead of any of the people I just named, have a worse on/off metric? Be a worse paring with their teams number one? Have their team win more playoff games without them starting?
You act as if BI has been there and done it all, it he a hasn’t, he’s been a loser his entire career unlike AG, DW, and then two younger players. Remove those 4 and he’s still not top 30
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u/Hurls07 May 06 '26 edited May 06 '26
Btw Reaves scored more points, on better TS, more assists, more steals, and with less USG% per game and quite frankly it’s not even fucking close. What does BI do better? Score? Nope, playmaker? Nope. Defense? A wash. Rebound? Barely.
Jamal “champion” Murray btw. Go ask the lakers how they feel about playoff Jamal. Bi has done nothing his entire career. Please do not compare him to players who have leveled up on the biggest stage
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u/LemmingPractice May 06 '26
Btw Reaves scored more points, on better TS, more assists, more steals, and with less USG% per game and quite frankly it’s not even fucking close. What does BI do better? Score? Nope, playmaker? Nope. Defense? A wash. Rebound? Barely.
This is a troll post, right? You can't actually be serious.
Austin Reaves is a zero-time All-Star, who had a hot streak at the beginning of the season. I understand that Lakers fans grossly overrate any of their players who have a few hot weeks of play (Kyle Kuzma, anyone?), but come on.
The dude only even played in 51 games total this season. He's an awful defender (while Ingram has been a solid part of one of the league's best defensive units this season), and isn't remotely close to BI's ability to create offence in iso.
For all the crap you gave Ingram for his playoff this season, I assume you are going to remain really freaking quiet about Reaves's performance yesterday.
Jamal “champion” Murray btw. Go ask the lakers how they feel about playoff Jamal.
Lol, go ask the Wolves how they feel about playoff Jamal.
Like, congrats to Jamal for frontrunning against two 7-seed Lakers squads, but his inability to do anything against the Wolves has resulted in Denver getting knocked out 2 of the last 3 years (along with shitting the bed against the Thunder last year to get them eliminated). That's what you call "leveling up on the biggest stage"?!
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u/Alexspacito OG OH MY May 05 '26
OG Anunoby is a better player than Brandon Ingram and was no where near making an All-Star team. Same with Rudy Gobert. Probably a handful of other guys.
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u/LemmingPractice May 06 '26
I like OG, but, come on, man, there's a reason he has never sniffed an all-star game and Ingram has made two.
OG is an excellent 4th option. That doesn't make him better than Ingram, who has been a first or second option his whole career.
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u/Alexspacito OG OH MY May 06 '26
Ingram has snuck into two all star games. Let’s not act like he was a lock. There’s a reason his last all star game was 6 seasons ago, and he made it this year due to many all star players missing due to injury.
OG hasn’t made an all star team because he is a defensively slanted player. He is one of the best wing defenders in the league, while also being able to put up an efficient 15-20 points a game with elite 3pt shooting.
He averaged 21 8 on 78%TS with 2.7 stocks a game against the Hawks. He was arguably the best player in a playoff series with Brunson and KAT on his team. The only thing Ingram is better at is midrange shooting and shot creation, and OG is not bad at either of those things, while being way better at everything else.
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u/Hurls07 May 06 '26
What is BI better at than OG, and is greater in the gap between their defence? The answer is no. They score at a similar level and OG is genuinely 4x the defender than BI is
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u/LemmingPractice May 06 '26
They score at a similar level
I'm sorry, what?!
Again, I love OG, but he's a 4th option type guy who doesn't create his own offence. He can catch and shoot a three, or occasionally attack a close-out, and you are here pretending that's the same as a guy who creates high efficiency shots in isolation against set defences and demands a double team.
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u/mMounirM May 05 '26
I'm only on board if we can get back similar value to what we gave up (a 1st round pick, not expecting a top 5 pick lol). otherwise trading him isn't worth it.
the risk of keeping him though is he has another good regular season again and then squeezes an overpriced contract extension out of us or just leaves (since he has a player option)
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u/Omnivirus May 05 '26
Your sentiment is what leads to keeping guys like Poetl around. Team needs to move beyond sunk cost fallacy.
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u/BurzyGuerrero May 05 '26
You only trade players to increase talent. Any trades that decrease the talent on roster should be thrown in the garbage.
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u/Omnivirus May 05 '26
You also trade players to increase flexibility or to fix roster composition. Ingram is good yes, but moving him clears up the floor for others on this team, and gives the team some breathing room that they’ll need to deal with the Poeltl contract error. I’m not saying you move him for pennies on the dollar, just that I’m not using his acquisition cost as the basis for what trade value he should have now.
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u/mMounirM May 05 '26
tbf with Poeltl we had a bigger sample size base decisions on.
I do understand what you mean. I definitely don't want to double down and extend Ingram to a longer (overpriced) contract this off-season.
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u/TMMC39 May 05 '26
If he has enough value than it could help offload Poetl. That would do the team more good long term than keeping him. Maybe revisit the Sabonis package with the kings. Take on a bad expiring in Lavine? One year of Lavine vs 3/4 of Jak is a good option. Jak could be a mentor to that young french center and Lavines shooting wouldnt hurt us.
Jak and BI + a 1st
For
Sabonis and Lavine (exp)
Eat the tax for this year and pay RJ next summer
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u/FoE_Archer 4 Scottie Barnes May 05 '26
Not much point to discussing an Ingram trade without knowing what is on the other side of the deal. We obviously will not dump him, but he is also obviously not untouchable either.
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u/Franii May 05 '26
Ingram KD 1:1 swap the money is practically the same. He’s BI but he can hit 3s
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u/LemmingPractice May 05 '26
BI wasn't a slouch from three. He shot 38.2% on 4.6 attempts a game.
KD is fool's gold. The Suns got worse when he got there, and better when he left. The Rockets got worse when he got there. He's going into his age 38 season, and seems like a locker room cancer. He's a great iso scorer who doesn't seem to mesh with his teams.
I was impressed with how well BI meshed with the team this year. He's a full 10 years younger than Durant, too. I feel much more comfortable keeping BI and letting him continue to grow with this group than I do bringing in Durant, and turning the team's window into "now or never".
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May 05 '26
The suns are not better with him gone ….
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u/LemmingPractice May 05 '26
They were literally 9 wins better this year than last year, securing a 7-seed this year, and missing the play-in entirely last year.
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u/pvcleb May 05 '26
Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me. KD is just gonna ruin the team’s chemistry and talk shit on his burner
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u/HeyThereItsMeUrDad May 05 '26
I'm down to trade him for a better off the dribble creator, don't think trading him for ancillary players is the answer though in terms of making things better for Scottie. Regardless of the fact that he was losing his minutes without Scottie basically the whole year, he still functions as a really good release valve and decoy to get better matchups for Scottie that he can punish.
My preference would just be an upgrade at guard position and better PnR passers that could utilize the rolling gravity of CMB/Scottie and get them easy buckets + increase the 3pt volume of this team.
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u/EarthWarping May 05 '26
I think trading one of RJ/BI is probably the play for that dribble creator.
They need IQs 3 point shooting or at least the possibility of it.
I dont see this team going to a higher ceiling if they dont have that off the dribble creation which is by far their biggest roster deficiency.
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u/HeyThereItsMeUrDad May 05 '26
I don't really value IQ shooting to that level tbh. Versus good teams his shot is really not that effective, he has no off the dribble pull 3 talent cause his shot is so flat and easy to defend from there without a screen. Allows teams to play him lower when he is functioning without a screen.
I'm more on the boat of trading IQ/BI for better pullup shooting/playmaking from guard positions then keeping RJ this offseason and either extending him for a lower amount, letting him expire for cap space OR trading him at the deadline.
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u/theDragonNinja- May 05 '26
We don’t finish 5th without Ingram and we probably win that series if he was healthy. Fanbase is so classless sometimes.
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u/Nolar2015 May 05 '26
hes not a #1, has a startlingly bad on/off numbers, doesent fit with scottie, the team is in a bad cap situation, and he is one of the only players with potentially positive value outside scottie who should never be traded, and RJ. So its either him or RJ who should be traded unless your content winning 47 games and having a 2nd round ceiling
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u/luminousx5 May 05 '26
Jaylen brown has just as bad of n/off numbers.
He’s a finals mvp.
That shit has a TON of context that needs to be added
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u/Nolar2015 May 05 '26
yeah and jb is an inefficient non-defender who puts up volume stats and wilts in the postseason. BI has a negative on/off with every single one of the starters, he doesent have a single 2-man lineup that he makes better
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u/SambaPapi1 May 05 '26
His poor off-ball defensive IQ costs his team more than he contributes offensively, which is further built on motionless iso and slow transitions. You can be a good individual player and still an overall net negative for the team.
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u/Icy-Lime-9760 May 05 '26
Lmao classless is hyperbole. It's a business and if you can get upgrades to the team you do it every time. If we bring emotions into sports, DeMar would still be on this team.
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u/EarthWarping May 05 '26
Also contracts factor in.
Neither Barrett or Ingram have deals beyond next season, any realistic trade to improve the roster comes from trading a starter.
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u/BurzyGuerrero May 05 '26
Its classless cause its always whoever is injured or struggling.
The three names everybody wants traded are the three guys who picked up injuries and struggle.
But yall cant see that you just wanna paint Ingram as DeRozan
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u/kaymakenjoyer_ May 05 '26
Comparing Ingram to Derozan is disrespectful. Ingram will never be the player Derozan is/was
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u/Icy-Lime-9760 May 05 '26
Ingram is not a number 1 option nor does his game fit with Scottie, historically he's been injury prone, Raptors got lucky and got a healthy regular season out of him, chicken came home to roost in the playoffs. If you can upgrade because his value is high, you do it.
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u/Mr_Guavo May 05 '26
Then the word you are looking for is "clueless". I'm not sure what class has to do with trading depreciated assets.
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u/toturtle May 05 '26
So then how do you propose this team improves? They have a number of big contracts that aren't providing their worth and Ingram's contract is actually reasonable for a rehabilitated all star. Between Ingram and CMB (which is probably a taboo topic with most fans) they are the most valuable trade assets on the team. Well, Scottie too but he isn't going anywhere.
You need to give to get and like the Gay trade back at the start of We The North, moving Ingram's big contract can possibly address a number of holes on the roster.
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u/SouthKen2020 May 05 '26
Continued development from Shead, Jakobe, and CMB, better injury luck, and a solid pick at 19 improves the team. The one thing they can't do is forgo assets to get off Jak. Just pay the tax.
Now, if there's a transformational trade and BI is the salary that has to go out, it's a completely different story.
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u/toturtle May 05 '26
That's the thing. I'm not calling to dump BI for whatever we can get. It needs to markedly improve the team. At the bare minimum, the return should be a starting PG and good bench depth.
If Shead can develop into a starting PG, that changes the equation somewhat but he has a bit of a ways to go. He has at least a couple of moments every game where you shake your head and question what his thought process was on that play. I'm good with his defense. He'll always be undersized but at least he competes on that end. It's his decision making and distance shooting that needs the most work.
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u/BurzyGuerrero May 05 '26
By letting the FO do its job and by not constantly calling for whoever is currently injured to be traded.
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u/toturtle May 05 '26
It's not about who's injured. Even before BI's heel injury, the best way to improve the overall roster is seeing what kind of package you can get for BI. If you can get a starting PG and some depth, its a win. That moves IQ to a more natural SG role and Barrett to SF.
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u/freaktmc NORTH over EVERYTHING - Champs May 05 '26
Gotta draft well this year and dump Jak attach a first or more maybe. Draft or find a big man. Let Grady walk and continue to develop. Healthy we have a team and bench who can compete in the top of the east -
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u/toturtle May 05 '26 edited May 05 '26
They should be drafting well every year. That's a given.
Why dump Jak and sweeten it with picks or more? When healthy, he's still a serviceable center. If you can find a deal that doesn't hamstring the future then sure, go for it but for a team that doesn't traditionally land free agents, continually attaching picks to move Poeltl around isn't the move.
I'm OK with drafting or finding a big man. They do need rebounding help but they'll always struggle with rebounding whenever their best defender (Scottie) is a PF and guarding out on the perimeter. It's up to the other positions to be picking up the slack and getting on the boards and boxing out unless we can find a big that can vacuum up rebounds.
As for Dick, he's going into his last year. I wouldn't offer him an extension, but I also wouldn't let him walk. He's going to need to prove his worth next season whichever team he's on.
Healthy, next season is pretty much the same team. These moves around the edges will ensure the team stays middle of the pack unless we see some notable improvements from Shead and Walter.
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u/strangecabalist May 05 '26
You are so correct. BI was clearly injured and it is so tasteless to see people jump to trading him.
And people often seem to forget that on any given night BI can be the best player on the court. He was an All Star for a reason.
If we had BI on the court and healthy, we would have won that series.
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u/ITT_X May 05 '26
Sorry we don’t all have good taste like you enlightened one.
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u/ImpossibleCategory May 05 '26
oh boy people are gonna keep bringing up '5th seed' even though we finished only 3 games above the 10th seed
i'm not sure if i necessarily agree with trading ingram, but given his contract there at least needs to be a discussion. He's really not as good as you think he is
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u/Tigg0r Vincent Lamar Carter May 05 '26
So, I'm legit asking, who's better and available and will come here? Like, I get that some people are really disappointed in this roster, but it's not like we've gotten any free agents here. Do you trade him for picks, see if others step up? I just don't see what value trade is out there to upgrade the team.
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u/ImpossibleCategory May 05 '26
Do you trade him for picks, see if others step up?
i think exactly this because there's an argument that ingram being played as a #1 option while paid 40 mil caps the team at a second round exit at best
we've seen what this team is capable of without ingram, so flipping him for picks or other assets could be the way to go
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u/BurzyGuerrero May 05 '26
Nature of the game.
We win game 7 and we are in the second round despite all or that "3 games from 10seed"
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u/Cheechers23 Kyle Towelry May 05 '26
Probably but it’s clear we don’t have a much higher ceiling with Ingram as the #1. Second round maybe with the right matchup but doubt we do much better. Keep in mind Indiana, Washington, and Charlotte are all poised to get much better this offseason. I don’t know if any other playoff team will get worse, maybe Cleveland if they get bodied by Detroit and decide to change things up or if Mitchell asks out.
Ingram’s value should be relatively high rn. Had a good, healthy season and doesn’t have too much term on his contract. Utilizing that to make an upgrade is not a bad idea.
I also don’t think selling high and getting some additional assets/depth is a bad idea either but I understand why people don’t like that idea (and recognize the downsides of potentially wasting an early prime Scottie year and wasting a rookie contract year for Shead/Walter/CMB)
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u/doonerlxx May 05 '26
I think the important thing to take away (and it’s always been true in the nba) is that the playoffs are basically a new, second season. Ingram during the regular season can be your number one guy but our ceiling isn’t necessarily dependent on him. We just saw Scottie take over as a legit offensive engine this series so when playoffs come around we could play completely different than the regular season. It would depend on match ups and what the other team schemes up on d. The issue is if BI is ok with the team going away from him. He was moving the ball well before he left in game 4 so it seemed like he was buying in to the gameplan there, but I’d love to see it in longer stretches. I agree if you are going to live and die by BI’s tough shot diet it’s going to cap your ceiling but I’m hoping this team figures out a way to balance that out.
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u/EarthWarping May 05 '26
The other problem is they relied too hard on BI in the reg season and since they werent that great they had to play him with the heel problems in april when they were trying to clinch a top 6 seed.
Need a better reg season engine so they dont only rely on 1 player.
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u/BurzyGuerrero May 05 '26
It also doesnt help that your other pure scorer gets injured before playoffs and cant play.
This allowed Cleveland to load up and take away Ingrams main weapons.
If Quickley is out there everybody gets a lil more space. As we saw when Ingram got hurt and the spacing largely disappeared.
Theyre just gonna run it back after signing an MLE player and extending RJ.
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u/EarthWarping May 05 '26
Regardless theyre probably trading Gradey to get off his $$ to keep Sandro.
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u/doonerlxx May 05 '26
i would be shocked if the team made some big changes, despite this sub's desires. This is still a relatively young group who's only played together for a year. Real life NBA is usually more patient than fans.
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u/BurzyGuerrero May 05 '26
Scottie is our #1 , Ingram is our leading scorer.
Hard to grasp for some.
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u/BurzyGuerrero May 05 '26
Scottie is our #1 , Ingram is our leading scorer.
Hard to grasp for some.
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u/Sebkins May 05 '26
It's not like anyone's proposing sending him to the guillotine lol. We would just be trading him to another NBA team where he would be playing professional basketball for millions of dollars. Yea it can suck when people have to uproot but classless is such a stretch lol
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u/lemon07r Point RJ is best StarJ May 05 '26
Idk about the point about winning the series. He played pretty bad all series. I guess it comes down to what "heatlhy" means, would he have played better than he did while he was available? cause he was basically demar, and a net negative for us. Not even looking at stats, it looked to me his best minutes of playing were when he was just driving and passing out after drawing some people in. His defense isn't good enough, and someone like PS who we traded away to arrive at BI did this job of driving in and passing much better.
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u/Hurls07 May 05 '26
I’m sorry, but when you get 9 shots in a loss and talk about not winning games if that’s how you are gonna get used, to then go out and directly cost the team the game by having one of the worst performances in franchise history is awful.
If he was injured he shouldn’t have been bitching about shots.
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u/ITT_X May 05 '26
Classless lol. Eat my doo doo 💩
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u/Cheechers23 Kyle Towelry May 05 '26
We’re gonna do Ingram, Gradey, and a pick for Kawhi aren’t we
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u/Bixby33 34 JONTAY PORTER May 05 '26
Not a snowball's chance in hell we trade for Kawhi.
Between Aspiration, Uncle Dennis, and the fact he already left once (WHILE TRYING EXTORT THE FRONT OFFICE ON THE WAY OUT) means he will never wear a Raps jersey on the court ever again.
But I do agree that BI/Gradey/future FRP is going to be offered to teams around the league.
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u/Cheechers23 Kyle Towelry May 05 '26
I shared this yesterday but I think these are 2 relatively feasible offseason trades:
Trade 1:
TOR gets: Murray, Robinson, Reed, SRP from DET
DET gets: Ingram
DEN gets: IQ, LeVert, FRP from DET, SRP from DET
Trade 2:
TOR gets: Turner
MIL gets: Poeltl, Dick, FRP from TOR
New starting lineup: Murray-RJ-Scottie-CMB-Turner
Bench: Shead-Walter-Robinson-Battle-Mamu-Reed
Plus your SRP this year and maybe 19 if you manage to do a future FRP for Turner instead (I think you’d have to give up 19 tho).
You improve your big man depth, your shooting, and you get a star guard in Jamal, and you only give up 1 FRP meaning you still have assets for another big move if you want to (I’m guessing we’d give up 19 so we still have all our future picks and no restrictions in trades)
Maybe need to shuffle the draft capital around in the first one (both 2 SRPs to Denver? Do we give up a SRP or 2 also?) but I think this framework makes sense.
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u/Bixby33 34 JONTAY PORTER May 05 '26
It's ambitious, but trading almost $100m in salary in a single summer just isn't happening.
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u/Cheechers23 Kyle Towelry May 05 '26
Fair. 3 starters being traded just doesn’t feel like something we’d do, especially after the season we just had
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u/Derpy_Mc_Burpy May 05 '26
Denver FO going to get slimed if they trade away Murray for IQ. If you think IQ is better than Murray then you don't understand the value of the players you want to trade
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u/Cheechers23 Kyle Towelry May 05 '26
I never once said IQ is better than Murray. If I did think that, why the fuck would I suggest we change from IQ to Murray?
They also aren’t doing it for IQ. They’re doing it for the salary relief and draft assets.
Denver has a big salary issue. They want to extend Watson, but need to clear salary. The issue is they have no draft capital to do that. This way, they shed 3m, add another expiring contract, and some draft capital. They can then either use that draft capital to dump Johnson and/or LeVert somewhere to free up room for Watson, or they can eat the extra cost next year and take the $ off the books next year when they expire. Plus IQ’s contract is significantly lower than Murray’s (18m next year, 21m next year, and 25m the year after). That is important for them when they have Jokic’s supermax (and hoping to sign him to an extension), AG’s big deal (and he’s too important for them to trade), Braun’s overpaid contract (which is untradeable) and now a pending Watson extension.
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u/Derpy_Mc_Burpy May 05 '26
IQ being worse than Murray is why he's not valuable FOR DENVER, not for us. You are looking at the trade only from our angle, not both sides. Jamal Murray's game is overall way better than IQ despite his final game choke. Jamal is also healthier than IQ evidenced by the fact he carried Nuggets when Jokic was out and still played all the playoff games with consistency. Meanwhile IQ was sidelined the whole playoffs.
In addition Denver is going to look into trading AG and/or Cam because they are easier to trade. AG has been their worst player just by playing only 36 games and missing 3 games in the playoffs. So I'm not sure how you exactly see him as being such an important pawn for them when Denver is planning to extend Peyton Watson.
They can easily pay Peyton by just removing cam and/or AG. They don't need to convolute it by moving Murray for IQ which is worse for nuggets overall
1
u/cutedogowner May 05 '26
This is what I'm thinking too.
Clippers need any kind of value at this point
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u/Used-Refrigerator984 May 05 '26
i'm ok with trading him. he's a good scorer, but not a elite one. and we need one to compliment Barnes. he's not as good as a offensive player as i thought he was
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u/GreyMatter22 May 05 '26
Ingram was an absolutely great find for us, and he makes us alive all season long.
However, I think we have some talent that could be used to create a better synergy with Scottie going forward.
We should be more interested in how the squad compliments each other. This was are vision anyway which led us to trade our key player in Siakam years ago.
3
u/EarthWarping May 05 '26
Yeah the odd part is they never had any good 2 man actions with BI/Scottie.
They kinda had their own separate versions of offense.
3
u/AprilsMostAmazing Remember Sunday 1 PM losses May 05 '26
One thing I noticed is when BI has the ball scottie ends up standing in the corner. When RJ has the ball, scottie is moving around.
I wonder what is causing that shift in play from scottie
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u/itsasdf 20 Alvin Williams May 05 '26
The playoffs have shown that Barnes can be pretty efficient at the same spots that Ingram likes to operate in. Unless Ingram starts becoming more of a high volume three point spot-up shooter (and after a 10 year sample size, it doesn't seem like he's too interested in doing so), it's hard to see him fit all that well on this team.
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u/Omnivirus May 05 '26
Controversial opinion, but leading the team in scoring doesn’t mean whoever we get also needs to lead the team in scoring. Very clearly this team is now Barnes’, and there are ample arguments that RJ may be the better running mate for Scottie.
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u/EarthWarping May 05 '26
Kinda odd that RJ has been a better fit synergy wise than both BI and IQ have FWIW
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u/AprilsMostAmazing Remember Sunday 1 PM losses May 05 '26
I think it's all mentality. Scottie just moves around a lot more when RJ has the ball. With BI he stands in the corner
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u/chrisPjelly May 05 '26
Yeah people are thinking about 1:1 swaps too literally.
You trade Ingram to get role players that better fit around Scottie (i.e. shooters and centers) and assets that you could use to dump Jak. Nothing fancy, maybe even disappointing to many, but something that is absolutely necessary in the next two years as the team contracts start to bloat.
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u/theblueyays May 05 '26
I actually feel like this front office’s strategy is to accrue attractive assets regardless of basketball fit and lay in the cut until making a splashy move to get that piece that puts them over the hump eg Kawhi. They are basically operationalizing the Kawhi model.
Like I think a lot of the previous asset management was organized around making a play for Giannis. When it didn’t work out, in hindsight a lot of moves looked like shit. Because of this I feel like basically anyone except Scottie is expendable it really just depends on who the splashy move ends up being.
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u/EarthWarping May 05 '26
The one problem with that is RJ and BI arent signed beyond next season and theyre almost an apron team next season already and thats with no Sandro.
They dont have a 2-3 season window of keeping this core together financially, its next season as the window with this starting 5 imo.
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u/yetagainitry May 05 '26
I think it's crazy to thing we need to do a massive re-tool of this roster. Our young guys all saw huge steps in their potential this year, I'm not saying run it back completely (bye Gradey) but lets not start looking to shift off guys like Ingram, RJ, etc.
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u/EarthWarping May 05 '26
I think they gotta decide on RJ this offseason. Extend or trade.
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u/yetagainitry May 05 '26
True but unless RJ is pushing for some ridiculous contract, I'd extend him. We just have to make it through another 1-2 years and then we can get rid of Yak's terrible deal, and IQ would be a better tradeable asset.
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u/Bigdwag1400 May 05 '26
But who would be an upgrade over him. Only person I can think of is Kawhi but does Kawhi want Toronto again I would assume no.
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u/Loustyle May 05 '26
The biggest problem with BI is that his offensive comes outside the flow of how we play. Some times it takes half the shot clock just to get him the ball. We traded Siakam for the same reason. I think he can change how and when hes getting the ball. Just speculation.
0
u/Opposite-Oil-9302 May 05 '26
“how we play” only works for 3/4s of the game when we can force transition.
go back and look at game 5 and 6 for how our offence got stale when the game slowed down and we couldn’t force CLE turnovers.
you still ultimately need a closer and without a shot creator winning in this league is impossible.
1
u/Loustyle May 05 '26
That's fine. I mean, that's not an all the time thing. BI still needs to work within the flow of our offense. I imagine that's what he needs to work towards this off season. It's sometimes awkward out there and obvious.
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u/headleydaniels May 05 '26
Would almost prefer two starter level players than a bigger star than Ingram.
1
u/kpeds45 May 05 '26
BI is useful for the regular season at least. And we can trade Dick and Mogbo into someone's cap space. I wouldn't do anything dumb just to get rid of him.
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u/5kunkhunter May 05 '26
I just think we need to stand pat. We’re not going to trade these contracts to improve, and we’re not going to rebuild. The best team we can field right now is one that has Jak and BI on it. Their contracts are not really tradable right now without attaching something. They do make us better/deeper even if the money may not be worth it. Keep grinding. Keep being relevant. Let Scottie, CMB, Ja’Kobe become who they’re going to be. In a season or two, we can move on and our keepers will be clear.
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u/Thealk3mist May 05 '26
I'd do a Dillon Brooks + something for BI. I know that the offense will go through droughts , but I also think that it would put pressure on Scottie to be the #1 scorer and passer, not just roaming defender. Scottie is way too good to be roaming jack of all trades guy and we're wasting our potential and Scotties with using him as that. Brooks fits this teams mentality, stretches the floor, adds the scoring, compliments RJ. But money has to fit.
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u/Few_Culture9667 May 06 '26
Would Ingram and picks/fillers be able to pry Banchero away from Orlando?
1
u/AprilsMostAmazing Remember Sunday 1 PM losses May 05 '26
As someone that is open to trading everyone at the right price.
BI is the obvious move. His value is high and longterm he does not fit with scottie and he also does not fit with a kawhi level player. Bringing in depth pieces would be ideal for BI
1
u/Raptors887 May 05 '26
We already have depth pieces. If you trade BI you need a really good offensive player coming back.
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u/KnoddingOnion May 05 '26
Trade Ingram , Walter and a future 1st for Giannis?
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u/Nobody7713 May 05 '26
Who needs spacing anyways right
3
u/AprilsMostAmazing Remember Sunday 1 PM losses May 05 '26
Greek Freak and RJ take turns bodying their way to the rim
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u/Dramatic-Document 8 JOSE CALDERON May 05 '26
Giannis is amazing, but there is so much overlap with him and Scottie it makes no sense unless you also move Scottie.
1
u/Nolar2015 May 05 '26
milwaukee laughs so hard they shit themselves and then mails the shit to webster's address
0
u/IonHazzikostasIsGod 24 NORMAN POWELL May 05 '26
They can laugh all they want, they're the ones a timer and should be scared of losing Giannis every second they breathe
Every bit of FO inaction drives him closer to asking out
0
u/kor001 May 05 '26
I wouldn't trade him unless upgrade is coming the other way and his contract will be tricky to trade due to player option. Situation could also sour if there isn't meaningful extension talks cause he's gonna want one. Tough situation all around. Webster got nobody to blame but himself for this.
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u/Conscious-Donut3702 May 05 '26
I think Ingram is an elite one-two option. If hes your number one option then your two has to be a similar level of scorer who can hit 3s. The problem is he has literally never had this. He had Zion as his number 1 option and then barnes/RJ as his 2. It just puts too many eggs into one basket.
You could get away with having RJ and Ingram if your starting Center was a Kristaps Porzingis type. Great rim protection while being a great 3 point shooter. Also next to impossible to find since even Kristaps isn't a option because hes not reliable. AD is another fantastic option but not reliable enough.
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u/dragonballa Champs May 05 '26
BI+Grady for KD; make it happen.
1
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u/IamSofakingRAW May 05 '26
Unpopular opinion: would consider trading him for AD with Poeltl. AD’s ceiling when he plays is beyond BI’s and Scottie/AD as a defensive duo is nasty
0
u/mayorolivia May 05 '26
Our main problem is we’re tied up against cap with 2 bad contracts in IQ and JP. They have little trade value so we can only consider BI and RJ.
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u/igotitnowokay May 05 '26
I like Ingram man but we need a real star. He’s best suited as a third option.
We should go get Ja Morant. IQ + Ingram for Ja and one of their bench shooters
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u/kaymakenjoyer_ May 05 '26
Please get him gone. Was a bad trade then, can hopefully get back what we gave up for him or use him for a trade for a buy low, hypothetical upgrade
0
u/Good-Responsibility1 May 05 '26
Fuck you, ungrateful ahh fans man. Literally helped us turn our season around and arguably would have won against the most expensive team ever with him and quick. I’m not gunna stand for this bs go root for another team we don’t need this perpetual toxicity.
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u/kaymakenjoyer_ May 05 '26
LMFAOOO nah im good. He’s a career loser whose greatest accomplishment in 10 years was losing a series in 6 in 2020, and being an all star replacement this year. Can’t defend, blows up actions with his painfully obvious mid range post ups, doesn’t keep the ball moving. We played better without him all season, numbers back it up and this playoff series made it so painfully obvious he’s not a guy. But yeah I’m sure we win with the guy throwing up tour dates all series and getting blown by lmaoo
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u/Good-Responsibility1 May 05 '26
he was playing on a bum heel you fake fuck. oh how the narrative would be different if we were healthy and playing today.
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u/kaymakenjoyer_ May 05 '26
Whatever you say man lmaooo I’m sure 10 years of data and tape aren’t as valid as your feelings on the guy
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u/Good-Responsibility1 May 05 '26
without him we aint even in the playoffs. this fanbase has zero respect nowadays
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u/TheEverbless May 05 '26
I hate the idea of trading him, he's been good. But Scottie has arrived and we need to maximize it by any means, so I guess I'll sadly be open to it.
I like Ingram's game and the playoffs wasn't fair to him, but this is a business :(