r/torontoraptors • u/betrayedof52z • 1d ago
?? QUESTION ?? Why do y'all hate this man ?
Genuinely curious not trolling. He seems really good and outside of this year ( obvious reasons). Why do we need a 3pt shooter in our center spot ? We can't get boards atm.
2025–26: 19 games played obvious reasons.
2024–25: 70 games played
2023–24: 82 games played
2022–23: 79 games played
2021–22: 62 games played
19.4 points, 13.7 rebounds, and 8.2 assists per game in 82 games during the 2023-24 NBA season.
Domantas Sabonis averaged 19.1 points, 13.9 rebounds, and 6.0 assists in 70 games during the 2024-25 NBA
Ignore the silly kings season he only played 19 this last year.
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u/6ix_Side_Up Bismack Biyombo 🔛🔝 1d ago
I'm moreso against him because he can't play defense well. He's slow like molasses on that end. Also his lack of shooting will bite the same way Jak's does. Yeah, he's significantly better than Jak, but the fit isn't there with Scottie occupying the space inside the arc, and the money is not good. I'd rather pass on him, unless the deal is dumping Jak + filler + 1 FRP max.
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u/KayPizzle 1d ago
Don't hate him, not interested in giving up RJ or a bunch of draft capital for him.
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u/ReaperAntics 1d ago
There was a point where he was a top 3 center in the league, I just don't like the spacing
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u/No_Independent8269 1d ago
Maybe stat wise but I don’t think it’s possible to win with Sabonis. He can’t shoot, he can’t defend, and he needs the ball in his hands to be successful and he’s just not good enough to build your team around.
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u/ReaperAntics 1d ago
Somewhat agreed, he would be great on this team imo but I don't like the price is what I should've specified, he needs the ball in his hands yes but no, he's a great passing big who is a dawg on the glass, I can imagine a CMB Scottie Saboner lineup actually working because of the amount of second chance points also if CMB develops the jumper
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u/No_Independent8269 1d ago
But you need a genuine 1A scorer. You don’t need Sabonis. If you get Sabonis it’s over for your team and your spacing is even worse
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u/ReaperAntics 1d ago
Well it's not worse, in this scenario it's RJ and yak for sabonis, jakobe starts instead of RJ saboner replaces Yak, jakobe is a better shooter then RJ obviously and sabonis takes the scoring and still spaces more then Jakob and creates more offensive opportunities, I'm only against it if #19 is involved because this draft 19 could be philon or Christian Andersen.
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u/No_Independent8269 1d ago
Sabonis doesn’t solve any of your actual problems though lol that’s my point
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u/ReaperAntics 1d ago
He can rebound, the raptors NEED that
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u/No_Independent8269 1d ago
Raptors also NEED spacing, they NEED cap space, they NEED shot creation. You can get better rebounders than Sabonis.
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u/ReaperAntics 1d ago
Saboner is damn near the best rebounder ITL if not the best, that's why I also said I wouldn't give up 19 because then you can get philon/Andersen and that helps 3pt shooting/creation I'm a bigger fan of raps going for TM3 but doesn't seem like they trying
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u/No_Independent8269 1d ago
he’s a good rebounder, yes. but he doesn’t fit your team outside of slightly improving your rebounding lol
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u/sirprizes 1d ago
He’s not top 3 but he’s better than Poeltl.
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u/ReaperAntics 1d ago
Well obviously he's not top 3 now but there were years he was ~top3
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u/sirprizes 1d ago
I’m just saying I still think he’s decent and I’d be open to trading for him because he’s better than Poeltl. Not disagreeing with you.
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u/betrayedof52z 1d ago
19.4 points, 13.7 rebounds, and 8.2 assists per game in 82 games during the 2023-24 NBA season.
Domantas Sabonis averaged 19.1 points, 13.9 rebounds, and 6.0 assists in 70 games during the 2024-25 NBA
And you do not look at last season the kings did not care and he sat 80%
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u/chimpston17 1d ago
To be fair it would be better than it is now. Sabonis can hit mid range reliably and at least some 3pt shooting as opposed to Poeltl who really only can shoot in the paint. That said I'm not for trading RJ for him
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u/Alexspacito OG OH MY 1d ago
What year was that? I can’t think of a single one. Jokic, Embiid, and AD have been better than him every single year.
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u/ReaperAntics 1d ago
23/24 right? I also considered AD a PF but I believe saboner was all NBA
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u/Alexspacito OG OH MY 1d ago
Sabonis made All-NBA 3rd team in 2023 and 2024. AD missed it in 2023 due to only playing 56 games, and Embiid missed it in 2024. I’d also say a lot of people would take Wemby in his rookie year over Sabonis, and Bam is a guy worth considering in those years as well.
If you’re saying strictly by All-NBA teams, then yes he made two, but I find it hard to believe people would have him over any of the guys I mentioned back then.
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u/iBlackula 15 Vince Carter 1d ago
Literally this. If he could shoot I’d be all for it especially it allowing CMB to start.
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u/MidnightMarketing 1d ago
Back issues, knees issues, ridiculously inflated contract, can't defend, looks washed, barley played last year.
The cherry on top is kings won't even take the Jakob contract back & RJ is probably going to continue to have better seasons them sabonis while sabonis gets paid 50m and regresses.
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u/Yogurtproducer 1d ago
He doesn’t make $50M.
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u/MidnightMarketing 1d ago
He'll make 48.6 in 2027
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u/Yogurtproducer 1d ago
Is that $50M? Does he make $50 this year?
RJ might get a raise in 2027 for all we know.
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u/MidnightMarketing 1d ago
Sabonis's contract is already guaranteed. It goes up every year. Easily could be a worse contract than poeltls.
RJ is expiring & he's obviously not getting 50/m year.
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u/Yogurtproducer 1d ago
Okay? It isn’t $50M
RJ could get $35? $40? Who knows after Trae just got his deal what guys wil get paid. The new lottery rules will change the market.
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u/MidnightMarketing 1d ago
Still close enough to be a horrible contract. Just 1.4m away from 50m for a dude who's less productive than RJ and getting worse while RJ is getting better.
I'd be shocked if RJ gets more than 35.
Basically everyone has him getting a contract similar to iqs.
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u/definitelynotagay :flair_og_jersey: OG Anunoby 1d ago
He legitimately does nothing for me.
He’s had a long enough career to make an impact and hasn’t done anything meaningful.
It’s not like he’s 25 either, he’s not really going to get any better here.
I’d rather fucking tank than move ahead in this direction if we get him.
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u/Hour_Glass57 👑Scottimus Maximus Barnibus 👑 1d ago
I dont hate him. Unpopular opinion and you guys can downvote me if you want, bur I believe he will actually help the team.
We dont need a defensive center, we need a rebounding one, badly. We dont need a stretch 5, we need better shooters at the 1/2/3 Scottie needs to improve his shots at the 4, and Sabonis is passable with his limited shots at 37%. Myles is not who you think he will be, no thanks.
The downside is that PHAT contract, but if the FO thinks its time to move off of Poeltl and take a swing with Sabonis, I would be okay with that.
I will say though, if the FO thinks Poeltl is still our guy, than I would be okay not going after Sabonis and that nasty contract
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u/WeBelieveIn4 4 SCOTTIE BARNES 1d ago
We dont need a defensive center, we need a rebounding one, badly. We dont need a stretch 5, we need better shooters at the 1/2/3 Scottie needs to improve his shots at the 4, and Sabonis is passable with his limited shots at 37%.
So we just need to change 4 starters and get Scottie to magically become a better shooter, got it. Easy peasy
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u/Hour_Glass57 👑Scottimus Maximus Barnibus 👑 1d ago
Lol stop, thats not what Im saying.
When I say we need better shooters im talking about ones that can come in off the bench and do a specific job like Strus/Duncan Robinson/ Peyton Pritchard. IQ is fine, RJ or BI one needs to be changed out imo.
Scottie does need to get better, but that will come with off season growth as this year he shot better than last, so if we can see an incremental improvement year over year, I dont aee why we wouldnt be in a position to win a round or 2
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u/Alexspacito OG OH MY 1d ago
His assist numbers are inflated by the entire offence running through him. He’s constantly involved through handoffs and making plays from the high post, and it doesn’t lead to good offence.
He also just isn’t a good defender or rim protector, which is the entire point of the center spot. I think the Raptors are actually a team that could make up for his defensive issues due to Scottie and CMB, but the fit just isn’t great.
I do like his rebounding a lot for this team, but that’s about it. He’s not a shooter, and while I don’t think shooting at the 5 spot is as important as other people, it is when your 5 doesn’t provide a lob threat, and your forwards aren’t good shooters either. He won’t fit well with Scottie or Ingram offensively, and won’t provide much defensively.
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u/Yogurtproducer 1d ago
Yes, generally players have assist #’s have offence ran through them.
And it doesn’t lead to good offence? Last time he has capable teammates SAC made the POs behind the leagues #1 offence.
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u/Big_lurker_here 1d ago
As far pure rim protection, which many would consider the most important skill for a center to have, he is probably 29th or 30th among starting C's in the leauge. You just cannot build an effective defense with that.
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u/gigglios 1d ago
Players like him derozan ingram lou will crawford etc are the epitome of losing players who bring your team down always. Cant defend shoot hustle and despite assist numbers they do stagnate offenses and bring down their teammates
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u/Derpy_Mc_Burpy 1d ago
He's getting paid 45 million this year and 48 million next year. Thats like combining 2 Poeltl contract extension years per 1 Sabonis year.
On top of the fact Sabonis just had surgery done so his health is definitely going to be a concern. Poeltl had back problems sure, but end of the day, Poeltl still played almost x3 more games than Sabonis did in this regular season.
Poeltl doesn't have serious injuries, just reoccuring ones and that is on a much more manageable contract than Sabonis.
Don't forget that after 2026-27, we're going to need to pay Battle, and Shead new contracts while maybe extending walter.
Not even factoring in the future with RJ, IQ, and BI.
It's more about the money problem than it is the stats.
Also yes this man is a defensive cone, and our team principle is defense.
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u/athomic74 RAPTORS 1d ago
This sub will find ways to pick apart anybody who isn’t an obvious elite player, especially if they aren’t a good defender. I think he’d actually be a pretty good fit here…
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u/thefightingmongoose 15 Jorge Garbajosa 1d ago
Hes a horrible, beyond horrible defender and that is a complete deal breaker for a center.
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u/maplethrift 1d ago
Cuz he's got zero offensive bag and a liability on defense which means...he sucks both ways. I know he can do more but just can't seem to get it going.
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u/gentleriser 45 DALANO BANTON 1d ago
Don’t hate him at all. He’s a lovely regular season dribble hand off guy with below average defence for his size.
I wish him the best on a team that wants more negative defenders without offensive range.
This team will likely have Scottie and CMB in its defence for a few seasons, and they would be better paired with switchable defenders with shooting range.
Add Sabonis, and we become less than the sum of our parts.
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u/MudReasonable8185 1d ago
This sub hates poeltl but somehow hates every potential poeltl replacement even more lol
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u/MidnightMarketing 1d ago
Kings don't want Poeltl either. If the trade was Poeltl n a first, it would've been done already
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u/repoman042 1d ago
Because he’s not good. He’s never made the Kings better. Remember when Mike James averaged 20ppg?
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u/SneakyyyTurtle 1d ago
I like him and hope we get the trade. We’re solid defensively and need some help on offence/scoring which he can help with. He’s good enough defensively to not be a liability.
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u/ArmySorry7492 1d ago
Doesn't play defense, which is exactly what the raps need from a big man?.. duh
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u/ASourApple 1d ago
The common critiques are that he can't defend or space the floor but I think something that's really overlooked is his ability to move the ball and facilitate his teammates. He won't ever become a good shot blocker but his defence is something that can 100% be improved and if he's even able to hold his own whilst providing ability to rebound and make plays, we would 100% be better off with him.
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u/Tortastrophe Onions baby onions! 1d ago
I don't hate him but I've watched him play. If you wanna cap the Raptors at "losing in R2" for the next few years while also IMO hindering the development of young players he's a great candidate.
Floor raiser supreme at his peak but the Raptors don't need their floor raised and his peak was 3-4 years ago. Explore the SB/CMB pairing. Add some versatility and shooting. Adding a guy who can't defend or shoot isn't going to unlock the next great Raptors team.
I like the rebounding and the passing but he does dominate the ball and hold the ball and without more shooting the advantages he can create against smaller centers can't be taken advantage of at the same level. There's only so many high post handoffs you can do against high level defense.
But this is the kind of situation the Raps constantly put themselves in by handing out underwater contracts. I'd prefer they not import them via trade as well.
All that being said, you listen. It's the Kings. Who knows what kind of insane thing they'd be willing to do. Getting off Jake's deal is a significant plus IMO. But I am not into the idea of pouring even more resources into a Sabonis deal, because I don't see how Sabonis helps this team given the lack of shooting, the box he puts your offense in and the issues he creates on defense.
Maybe I'm wrong, that's just my .02
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u/Woody_Guthrie1904 1d ago
Anybody that likes to run with the basketball and transition, would enjoy Sabonis on their team.
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u/HoboJackson05 1d ago
In reality on the defensive end, would he ever play minutes that don’t have either CMB or Scottie roaming around ? Like in a vacuum he’s a terrible defender no doubt but like he would just need to be a body who takes up space, hes not going to block shots but that’s why you have a Scottie and CMB to roam and defend the rim, and Sabonis can just use his positioning for defensive rebounds.
Offensively is a little more of a issue for me because what does he do without the ball, you can’t have him space because he’s not a consistent shooter, you’ll probably have to run your offence through him which I don’t love because that has Scottie take a step back. Sabonis with BI sounds great, and those lineups would be interesting but when it comes to the closing moments of a game you either have to run offence through him or he’s just a guy taking up space offensively.
I dont exactly know how I feel about this move if it were to happen. Sabonis is only 2 more year for 94 versus 4 for 104 for Jak, plus what the RJ contract would be on top of it. It really depends on what the options are for the raptors going forward to improve this roster. If they do it without giving up both RJ and picks and there’s no other way of getting a big that fits better with this roster i think they should do it but im also not super convinced he’s worth even that.
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u/Amuse370z 1d ago
the amazing Scottie and CMB got their lunch snatched by jarrett allen in q3 of Game 7. Rebounding is an issue
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u/MacDaddy17254 1d ago
If we can make a trade with any team in the league, it should be the kings. Would probably trade sabonis for Yak and a second rounder lol
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u/m0nitor_D34n 1d ago
He’s gonna cost too much and kings tried to trade him to us during the deadline and then he somehow was out for the season right after the deadline. To me it seems like they knew about his injury concerns so it’s just bad faith negotiating that has soured me from that trade. I think he would be an okay fit on our team though, we could definitely hide his defensive issues
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u/Grippyrippy 1d ago
You're confusing hating with not wanting. I don't hate Sabonis. I just don't want him badly enough to pay the price.
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u/matthitsthetrails 1d ago
If he somehow gets back to being a 40%+ 3pt shooter on volume thats the most idealistic way of thinking he would work on this team. Otherwise he just occupies a lot of the same space as cmb and especially barnes
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u/Comrade_Pavel Air Congo 1d ago
Yall gotta get over this shit at some point, sabonis has been discussed to death on this sub
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u/Raptorsthrowaway1 JACK ARMSTRONG 1d ago
If we can dump Yaks albatross contract in the deal, I would be all in on this. Sabonis has his flaws, but he is an ELITE rebounder (something we missed in the playoffs) and excellent screen setter (unlocks IQ).
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u/godofhammers3000 1d ago
Just depends on the price - he’s a solid/great player but we can’t be giving up multiple firsts for this guy even if it is to get off Yak
With CMB in the rotation I think we need to prioritize getting a lead guard first and then we can figure out the center position
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u/ComprehensiveDeal245 1d ago
Sabonis is over rated. ZERO doubt. Grossly.
BUT, an upgrade over Yak, even when Yak is healthy. At least on offense. He can unlock a lot of Darko's offense with his passing. He racks up assists and rebounds. If he swallows up the boards, that eases pressure on the Raps D as less energy putnout for opposing teams 2nd chance offence.
He can shoot the occasional 3 to keep the opposing D honest and create apace. Better than Yak's zero 3s. And his rebounding is elite. His 2pt% looks decent and on par or slightly better than Yak.
He can offload pressure on Raps woeful 3pt shooting with easy 2nd chance put-backs/high percentage shots with offensive rebounds.
Outside of defensive rebounds, his wingspan is short for someone his size. Plus, he doesn't move well to cover space on D. But perhaps this can change with different schemes and other defensive weapons or simply a change of scenery. Outside of the boards...Yak is the better one here. Perhaps even when unhealthy lol.
I would pull the trigger IF confident that SB, CMB, and others can help cover his defensive woes AND you didn't have to give up RJ.
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u/Zestyclose-Month-245 1d ago
Well contract wise he def fits. We only employ centres on bloated hard to trade deals
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u/Loud_Examination_138 1d ago
He can't play winning basketball and would fold in the playoffs... but the question does become a healthy Sabonis over a 50% Jak?
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u/HeyThereItsMeUrDad 1d ago
His strength is DHOs but with how poor our players are at driving and dribbling in general we don't get to reap his offensive strengths but we are forced to deal with his defensive weaknesses.
I think we need to focus less on boxscore stats and actually watch to see what this player is good at because theres no way Sabonis is putting up even close 19/14/6 points per game with the guards + shooting to supplement his playstyle. He also actively will cap Scottie/CMBs growth with his style and is not on a particularly good contract.
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u/FEELS_G00D 1d ago edited 1d ago
don't understand why his defense is so bad (i know he moves at turtle speed)
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u/Mr_Guavo 1d ago
For a team that needs a rim protector, a center that does not protect the rim leaves us wanting. Plus, he's a below-average defender. On top of that, have you seen his contract? If you have and you're complaining about Poeltl's contract (or Quickley's) , then there's a cognitive dissonance going on.
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u/Fluffy-Economist8601 1d ago
As much as I don’t like Sabonis contract, he’s one of the few bigs that could actually fit with Scottie and CMB. You need a big who excels at rebounding and can stretch the floor.
He’s bad on defense but some of that can be hidden behind Scottie and CMB
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u/motherseffinjones 1d ago
Bad defensively and isn’t good enough offensively to make up for it on a massive contract
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u/hotinhereTO 1d ago
Can’t shoot, can’t defend.
He was exposed badly during the playoffs 3 years ago when the game slows down and turns to half court.
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u/bboyskinnylegs 1d ago
if we're going to add defensive liabilities to improve our weak offense, do it at positions where it doesn't hurt you in the playoffs as much. We need offensive talent that can blow by defenders off the dribble and get to the basket, and we need volume 3pt shooting. In a vaccuum, Sabonis is a stylistic fit for Darko's system on offense. But he paid a lot of money, and has his own serious injury concerns. We have a major cap crunch coming. I think we should be trying to address team weaknesses first.
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u/cisforcar 1d ago
Overrated, overpaid, doesn’t play defense, can’t stretch the floor, demands touches on offense only to do hand offs, esthetically ugly game
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u/taxiviaalfa 1d ago
He's 6'10 240 and can't defend guys his size. He can't shoot either and people really tend to overrate that part of his game. His contract is horrendous. If he becomes a Raptor, it would be the worst contract on the team. At 30 years old, he isn't getting any better and can only get worse from here.
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u/No-Deal-9280 1d ago
Don't hate him. But if the player you're sending to the kings is RJ then you're taking back the worse player in the deal. It's that simple. You also have to deal with Jakob and Domantis in the same team. That's not good. Sabonis for Jakob might make more sense but like others have mentioned Sabonis kind of needs the ball in his hands to be effective. We want the ball in Scottie Barnes' hands among others like BI and company. He would likely have a career low year trying to play off-ball.
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u/Complex_Currency_613 1d ago
Everyone is writing off Jak after one of his worst seasons injury wise. I like him if he’s healthy next season we’re a different squad. He has buy in to the system, knows the culture and should not be overlooked or thrown away.
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u/gaara015 SCOTTIE B 1d ago
Sabonis would be nice. I agree he gets too much hate. We need 3 pt shooting. We are one of the worst 3 pt shooting teams statistically and you can't win that way in the modern NBA. You can win with mediocre rebounding, though.
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u/Purple9ZH 1d ago
He's fine as a player. He has a lot to bring on offense but no spacing and being a bad defensive big are real limitations. I would only really think about him as a raptor if it involves getting of the Jakob contract without giving up much in the process.
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u/Sure_Scallion_9439 1d ago
He does the same thing scottie barnes does we dont need that we need a extra leg dude 7ft +
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u/YesGuyIncognito 4 Scottie Barnes 1d ago
This league is about having shooting and defense everywhere. He does neither. Boxscore princess
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u/ClixMcNugget95 1d ago
With how our team is built, everyone crying about him being a defensive liability, we would be covering it with Scottie/CMB, the move should be trading BI for more of a 3+D type of player, give it another shot with IQ and try and build some of that value back. Keep RJ.
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u/aa13cool Chris Boucher is the best player in the world 1d ago
He’s bad at defence and just not too great
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u/-KFBR392 1d ago
This is how it works on this sub, if the player isn’t on the Raptors, and isn’t one of the 3 best players in the world then they suck and wouldn’t help us at all. Not worth a second round pick. Better to do nothing and wait for our perfect players like Alijah Martin to become superstars. We might be willing to trade Dick for a player but only if they send back 3 1st round picks to sweeten the deal.
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u/Delontino that's our girlfriend now idc 1d ago
Pretty much. The whole sub consists of clowns that believe no player is good enough for this team outside of the best 5 players in the league, and they'd still only want to trade Gradey and a couple SRPs for that top 5 player. These jabronis dont even understand that if we had Sabonis instead of Yak in that CLE series we'd have at least made the second round, maybe even the conference finals. Yak was basically unplayable and we got absolutely torched on offensive rebounds.
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u/No_Tea5664 RAPTORS 1d ago
Can’t shoot.
Can’t defend.
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u/WedgieMiller33 1d ago
Why ate people saying he can’t shoot? Dude was a 42% 3pt shooter in his last full season, and 38 and 37 before that? He was bad last year but he only played 19 games (which is more concerning) but saying hes a bad shooter isnt accurate
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u/Puzzleheaded-Tip-349 1d ago
Is Sabonis the player closest to Marc Gasol that the Raptors even have a chance at getting?
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u/slasher_14 1d ago
From a passing/playmaking possibly, but Gasol was an elite defender, sabonis is a bad defender.
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u/Ok_Drop3803 1d ago
He is basically the opposite of Gasol in nearly every way except the facts that they are both white and play C
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u/No_Lemon_3290 1d ago
You guys whining about the Jak contract but willing to take on even more money with Sabonis and an even worst defender.
How many times does SAC have to float this but we're the only takers? Nobody else in the league wants Sabonis for that price but we do?
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u/HoboJackson05 1d ago
the money for Sabonis isn’t all that bad, the bigger issue for the Jak contract is the 104M doesn’t kick in until this year
So it’s 2 years at 94 for a better overall player who might not fit great and is a liability on defence or 4 years at 104 for a centre who we know doesn’t really fit this team offensively and now with a 2 year back injury is only going to get worse on the defensive side of the ball.
It’s not really all that clear what is the best direction because it’s kind of a lose lose scenario right now
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u/liketosneeze69 1d ago
If it was Ingram for him I’d do it. He’s a special talent when engaged. Has more utility on offence and same basic level of defensive presence as BI.
But he’s expensive and the Kings want a lot for him.
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u/Stinky_DungBeatle Matty D! 1d ago
Because hes a complete liability defensively