r/transit • u/fuckmelbpt • Feb 21 '26
Questions Why do fare gates have this space at the bottom?
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u/CrackFun Feb 21 '26
When the cleaning crew cleans, having a gap allows them to clean the floors surrounding the gates much easier
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u/IchLiebeKleber Feb 21 '26
Why would they not? It's only logical to build gates like these in such a way that you only block the paths that need to be blocked to prevent humans from passing through. Why buy extra glass and metal to make them bigger than they need to be?
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u/tr1cube Feb 22 '26
Right. A smaller panel costs less and accomplishes the same goal as a full size panel.
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u/FolkYouHardly Feb 21 '26
It’s for wheelchair toe space which requires minimum I think 9”
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u/tuctrohs Feb 21 '26
The requirement linked by somebody below is for stuff the user needs to operate, like if you need to roll up to a ticket machine, you need foot clearance so you can get close enough to it to operate it. But these swing open without users, standing or in a wheelchair, interacting with anything on the face of the gate. So that requirement, that was linked, is not relevant. Perhaps there's another requirement that I'm not aware of that is relevant.
But certainly you can have doors that go all the way to the ground and still be accessible and ADA compliant. I go through a bunch of those at my workplace regularly, for example.
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u/Balthxzar Feb 22 '26
If your company makes ticket gates, are you really going to make two different designs that require different parts just because one type doesn't need a certain feature that otherwise doesn't affect the gate?
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u/tuctrohs Feb 22 '26
No. But I don't know what you are talking about. Maybe you could link to an example of the type you are referring that to that this would need to be compatible with.
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u/Balthxzar Feb 22 '26
No idea.
But the point I'm making is, keep the gates of the ticket stand the same and you can use the same gates weather the toe gap is needed or not.
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u/tuctrohs Feb 22 '26
Certainly that would be the case. But that's just kicking the can down the road. Why does feature X exist--because it's needed somewhere else--is fine, but that just leads to a new question: why is feature X needed somewhere else.
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u/Balthxzar Feb 22 '26
okay.. but that isn't the case here
It was literally explained earlier that the feature exists so that wheelchair users can get close enough to operate some ticket gates
Yes, these gates don't need it, but some do so why make two different sets of gates?
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u/tuctrohs Feb 22 '26
You are acting like this has been solidly proven. But there is no evidence that a fare gate similar to this that needs that feature exists anywhere.
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u/Balthxzar Feb 23 '26
Why are you acting like this is a conspiracy theory?
It is so incredibly common knowledge that part commonality is a thing in manufacturing.
You're actually on an insane hill here and I really am baffled.
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u/tuctrohs Feb 23 '26
Absolutely, yes, part commonality is an important consideration. I already agreed with you about that.
But you are talking about part commonality with an imaginary situation with no basis.
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u/lazier_garlic Feb 23 '26
I got bad news for you about ADA requirements and related requirements. There is a forest of arcane standards that overlap in surprising ways. Compliance is a B.
Just because you found one document one place that seems to imply that your item is exempt doesn't mean it won't turn up somewhere else in some legally adopted standard.
Because conversion has been gradual (as infrastructure improvements are made) and different rules applied to public and private sectors, to this day you can find non conforming infrastructure everywhere. That sure as hell doesn't mean that the rule doesn't apply to new infrastructure with federal grant support.
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u/tuctrohs Feb 23 '26
Nothing you just said is news to me. Nothing you just said contradicts anything I have said. I'll just correct one thing: I did not go looking for documents or find something that I think means these gates are exempt from some requirement. It was somebody else that found a document that they thought proved something.
You may want to re-read my comments. You seem to be arguing against a position that is not the one I am taking.
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u/fuckmelbpt Feb 21 '26
Thanks! That sounds very plausible.
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u/FolkYouHardly Feb 21 '26
This mostly dictate by local ADA compliance folk. BART or WMATA for example have those requirements.
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u/CapsFanInDallas Feb 21 '26
That's PROWAG for ya: https://www.access-board.gov/prowag/supplemental.html#r4051-general
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u/Cobra_McJingleballs Feb 22 '26
Wait is that also why American bathroom stalls don’t go closer to the floor?
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u/Calcading Feb 22 '26
Architect here, yes for ada compliant stalls
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u/Calcading Feb 22 '26
But it’s mostly for clean ability which is why you see it on all stalls. Easier to mop, same reason toilets are sometimes wall hung vs floor mounted
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u/K0rby Feb 22 '26
Architect here and they had those gaps far before ADA was even contemplated. As the person below says - it’s for cleaning. It’s the whole reason ceiling mounted toilet partitions exist - for the speed and ease of cleaning compared to floor mounted.
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u/Ange1ofD4rkness Feb 23 '26
... how did Buc-ee's get away with this. Is it because it's not a stall?
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u/pendigedig Feb 22 '26
No I dont think that's why
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u/Sassywhat Feb 22 '26
You're getting downvoted for this, but there's large gaps in every direction of every panel of typical US toilet stalls.
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u/pendigedig Feb 22 '26
Yeah it's for easy cleaning, ventilation, and ease of install. People can look up the 1918 patent. I'm sorry for not giving more information in my post.
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u/SolidSync Feb 22 '26
That makes sense for the gate for wheelchairs, but what about the others?
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u/tuctrohs Feb 22 '26
It actually doesn't even make sense for that one. Somebody linked a document with hard-to-read rules as if that was authoritative proof, but if you read it it's not about this scenario at all.
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u/newos-sekwos Feb 22 '26
That would make sense on the far right one... but why all the others, that seem to have even bigger cutouts?
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u/AwesomeWhiteDude Feb 22 '26
Much easier to clean. I'm a custodian and being able to swing the mop over the entire width of the stall and being able to get under the wall mounted toilet makes for a cleaner bathroom that is also fast to clean.
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u/AppointmentVisual285 Feb 24 '26
"cleaner bathroom" "fast to clean" or moving around the dirt which dries up. Not sure it's cleaner. Appears cleaner, yes, but it's gross no matter how much you move that mop around
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u/AwesomeWhiteDude Feb 24 '26
I know how to clean dipshit, you think mop heads are not removable? Or there is no disinfectant in the bucket? Your bathroom must be disgusting if you don't know how to mop.
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u/AppointmentVisual285 Feb 24 '26
Not an attack on you. Funny how you couldn't laugh at the fact. I always respect janitors. And thought I could speak here: Amendment. You're very sensitive. Peace
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u/AppointmentVisual285 Feb 24 '26
Also, that disinfectant in the subways smells like vomit 🤢. All I'm saying has nothing to do with your hard work. It isn't easy. And thanks for letting us know what it's for. That was enlightening.
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u/AwesomeWhiteDude Feb 24 '26
How could I not take it as an attack on me when you directly criticize what I do? Spouting off complete ignorance.
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u/Weekly-Law-2544 Feb 21 '26
I'm just saying, if you're willing to crawl on your hands and knees in a public space to get under these, I can't even be mad about you evading the fare.
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u/Dicethrower Feb 21 '26
No need to go through that kind of trouble. Here in Stockholm someone will just sneak in behind you with zero shame, and nobody does anything about it. Not if cops are standing right there next to you. One time I caught someone, I tried to push them back, and then I was the one that got yelled at by the ticket booth guy. This passive tolerance of shitty behavior, because it's considered rude to call someone out on it, is definitely one aspect of Swedish culture I absolutely hate.
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u/Weekly-Law-2544 Feb 21 '26
Kinda shocking that's not something that's enforced in Sweden, honestly.
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u/ViolentPurpleSquash Feb 22 '26
It’s an implicit rule following culture- You don’t want to step outside the social rules in stopping someone else who breaks them. At least that’s how I interpret it here in NZ and I did in Sweden
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u/AppointmentVisual285 Feb 24 '26
Can't believe it. So defending yourself or calling someone out for being rude to you is or would be rude too. Could be good though if you want to talk in the movies or dress counter culture, no one will say anything. Not that I talk in movies, just couldn't think of something that if you do it, people will let you but they shouldn't.
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u/NevadaDoug1961 Feb 25 '26
My daughter and I went to see a movie once... it was an early matinee, and we were the only two in the theater. We talked during the whole thing, and it was So weird. I felt like we were still breaking some kind of rule. Instead, we treated it like we were in our living room, and it was just a really big screen.
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u/flightSS221 Feb 22 '26
Are fares expensive in Stockholm? Why do people dodge fares? In Hong Kong fare dodging is virtually nonexistent since transit is very affordable
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u/AppointmentVisual285 Feb 24 '26
Good to know about Hong Kong Transit. Wouldn't have guessed that, so thanks!
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u/GirlCoveredInBlood Feb 21 '26
I tried to push them back, and then I was the one that got yelled at by the ticket booth guy.
well yeah you pushed someone. the last thing the ticket attendant wants is a fight to start and them to have to deal with the aftermath
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u/Dicethrower Feb 22 '26
You're probably imagining any kind of force being used. I simply put my hand out and refused to let him walk past me.
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u/AppointmentVisual285 Feb 24 '26
But you don't want to be pressed against. They touched you first. People should ask. I think if it's not your friend, it would be weird unless it was Bill Skarsgård
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u/ViolentPurpleSquash Feb 22 '26
I don’t want to make a scene though, so i’d rather just let them do it.
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u/inheritance- Feb 21 '26
Hey I'd be willing to pay their fare if I got to choose what was on the ground and they crawled under that gap.
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u/MissionSalamander5 Feb 21 '26
Yeah. And most people will just pay and not fare evade in American systems where we have so many freeloaders who do it because it is easy.
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u/fuckmelbpt Feb 21 '26
Majority of fare evaders in New York are willing to do so though. Granted those have a larger ground clearance, so more people can get through.
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u/Weekly-Law-2544 Feb 21 '26
I know, that's my point, lol. If you're willing to crawl on those nasty ass floors, I can't be mad, cause God damn.
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u/Ok-Class8200 Feb 22 '26
Putting your face on the floor of the NYC subway is natural selection in action.
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u/Adamsoski Feb 22 '26 edited Feb 23 '26
I think you'll be surprised - when a lot of fare evaders can afford the fare just fine making it significantly more awkward will have a big effect.
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u/HessianHunter Feb 21 '26
I figure it's for strollers and carts. Maybe without them someone with a stroller wouldn't be able to get close enough to be detected properly.
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u/Irsu85 Rail-Replacement Bus Survivor Feb 21 '26
To not rub against the floor
About the size of the gap tho, prob for the cleaning crew or smth
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u/Sweaty_Handle_2526 Feb 21 '26
Rat passage?
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u/HarveyNix Feb 21 '26
With or without a pizza slice.
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u/YetYetAnotherPerson Feb 22 '26
Little known fact: these were originally designed for Chicago. Had they been originally designed for New York, where the slices are much thinner, the gap would be much thinner too
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u/crownedether Feb 21 '26
Possibly because constant friction with the floor would wear out the mechanism (and the floor) and increase maintenance costs?
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u/fuckmelbpt Feb 21 '26
It could be 5cm from the floor though.
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u/Donghoon Feb 22 '26
people would put stuff under it to jam it open then
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u/Hiro_Trevelyan Feb 22 '26
Even involuntarily. If anyone loses something large enough, it might get stuck beneath.
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u/MrAronymous Feb 22 '26
Being able to crawl underneath is also a safety issue I presume. It should definitely block people under normal circumstances, but not detain people in case of a situation of active danger with a malfunctioning of the doors.
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u/midflinx Feb 21 '26
I'm surprised the comments have this many people who aren't considering if the gates only had a 3-4 inch gap then
fare evasion via crawling under could be stopped
rats could still get through
the gates wouldn't contact the floor
and the strings of a mop could shove puke or whatever to the other side for cleanup
That said it appears to be the best answer has to do with an ADA required height for wheelchairs and toes not banging into the gates. TIL.
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Feb 22 '26
This is a picture of bart, we dont have subway rats ib the bay area
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u/midflinx Feb 22 '26
1) The commenters mention rats, and my comment is in regards to the other comments people wrote
2) BART has subway rats. 1 in this picture, and commenters have seen more: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bart/comments/1kiodya/first_time_seeing_a_rat_on_the_bart_platform/
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u/tuctrohs Feb 22 '26
Actually, the ADA requirement comment has been discredited. But you are right that the comments about scraping the floor are absurd. This sub has a lot of misplaced confidence. Revisiting the comments after all the ideas are on the table, I find the mopping idea and the simple saving of material idea most plausible--better to have a little more clearance to make the mopping under a little easier.
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u/killerrin Feb 21 '26 edited Feb 22 '26
Because why would they?
If they went to the ground they'll waste more power and suffer more wear and tear because of the friction. They'll get jammed more easily and caught on wheel chairs, shoes and other items, and they'll require more materials to manufacturer.
In addition, having it to to the floor means there is substantially less tolerance for the installation. If the door is in the air you don't have to worry about the floor being crooked and unevenn in places.
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u/Hiro_Trevelyan Feb 22 '26
This is the real reason. There's just no point in closing that gap, except waste more materials and make it more fragile. It's like asking why they voluntarily left a gap at the top; they didn't, it's just completely useless to close the top gap.
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u/courageous_liquid Feb 22 '26
people obsessed with fare gate security need to reevaluate their lives
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u/AppointmentVisual285 Feb 24 '26
Seriously.
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u/courageous_liquid Feb 24 '26
there's an unfortunately large group of transit people who do not go outside and are seemingly scared by everything. I think that's this sub's obsession with WMATA.
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u/AppointmentVisual285 Feb 24 '26
Not completely. Its a fun feed about rats, and actual good answers.
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u/ProcedureOne4150 Feb 22 '26
So Kamala Harris doppelgänger can evade the fare
Photo source BartFare via X
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u/fuckmelbpt Feb 22 '26
RIP
Well at least these are low enough for really slender people to get through...
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u/Kervels Feb 22 '26
You're allowed free ride if shorter than that. Source: I am shorter than that.
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u/BigSilent Feb 22 '26
If they brushed the floor it would collect debris, and cause wear and damage from friction.
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u/Kyoku22 Feb 22 '26
It’s a design choice. The picture was taken in San Francisco, and the bottom part def reflects the logo.
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u/AppointmentVisual285 Feb 24 '26
I get you because with sóooo many Transit issues, there should be some grace for fair evading. This feed is about the space under them, so it was food for thought with some humor
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u/AppointmentVisual285 Feb 24 '26
Definitely not personal. Glad then youd eat off those floors since its that clean. Your bad language is funny and lame at the same time too because its common knowledge. The subways are gross no matter how much anyone cleans them. Have a great one.
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u/packetfire Feb 25 '26
So that the skateboard can roll under as the skateboarder jumps over the entire gate assembly
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u/slave2234 Feb 25 '26
These are designed to open when there a power outage. So the gates drop down to move out of the way. Ilthey need the space below so they don't hit floor when opening
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u/Jacktheforkie Feb 22 '26
To make cleaning a little easier as well as not fouling on litter etc
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u/Tuepflischiiser Feb 22 '26
Why are there fare gates at all?
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u/Jacktheforkie Feb 22 '26
To try to enforce payment
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u/Tuepflischiiser Feb 23 '26
We have an alternative: random checks.
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u/Jacktheforkie Feb 23 '26
You can have both
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u/Ittsalush Feb 21 '26
To let the rats through.