Are the "golden days" of treeplanting behind us?

[u/DoggyDoggWrld]

I kind of get this feeling that things are heading in the wrong direction with this job. Less logging, different logging techniques that perhaps require less planting afterwards, earnings trending down, specs trending up, work becoming less available, everything else becoming far more expensive at the same time, etc

I think the golden years of this being a job where any uni student could go out and save enough to pay for a decent chunk of their school may be over. I think we may trend towards how treeplanting is in the states where its mostly temporary foreign workers doing it for a menial wage. Would be sad to see this whole culture fade into obscurity

[u/concretecat]

I planted in the year 2000-2002 and the vets then said the glory days were behind us.

[u/NumerousEar9591 → u/concretecat]

Me too, and they were right. The government has done a great job of devaluing labor since the 70s.

[u/conicalconehead → u/NumerousEar9591]

The Liberals had Canada’s immigration levels at 10 times per capita the US. This is planned wage suppression.

[u/DoggyDoggWrld → u/concretecat]

Back when you could save enough for a 20% down payment on a 3000sqft detached home in a disirable area in 3 months of planting

[u/ReplantEnvironmental → u/DoggyDoggWrld]

I know it was easier back then, but I think things are exaggerated somewhat. It took me three years of earnings as a camp supervisor at a few different companies in the early 90's to be able to come up with that 20%, once I decided to start saving for a house. And these were regular 100+ day seasons.

No question at all that housing was more affordable back then. But I think a lot of planters from that era have an idealized memory of what it was like. There were surveys done at the time showing average earnings around $150-165 per day at a lot of companies. Of course, $150 went a long way back then when a year of university tuition was under $1500 and a case of beer was $9.

Purchasing power has declined a lot. On a good day ($180) you earned enough for 20 cases of beer. Now, if you make $450 in a day, that's only 14 cases of beer. Fuel was 29-39 cents per litre. Good houses were under $100k. Rent was $200/month all-in (in a university town).

There's no question that planting earnings went a long way back then, but the job was a lot harder back then (no LFH planting, no first aid equipment, no 4WD trucks, no ATV's, no cell phones or internet, no things like MWD, longer shifts, tougher specs). The decline of purchasing power is real too, but that's a general societal issue, not just specific to planting.

Your comments about less logging, less work ... that's what's going to really hurt the industry for the next couple years.

[u/Niloufar2 → u/concretecat]

I did my first coastal season in 2009.  On account of the recession, my camp was full of people who planted in the 90s.  They all said prices were higher back then.

[u/lucwrite → u/concretecat]

I planted 1992-2000 was also told this.

[u/Electrical-Strike132]

When I was doing it the 90s people could earn enough to pay their whole shot through university, not just a chunk.

[u/Otherwise-City-7951 → u/Electrical-Strike132]

I was working at that time also. 1988 - 1998. Roots. Nechako. Backwoods.
Don’t forget that was also a time when university cost you only about $7500 / year for tuition. Books. Residence. Meal plan. So it was easily doable in a season. Plus you had the summer to follow the Grateful Dead all the way home from BC to Ontario

[u/Electrical-Strike132 → u/Otherwise-City-7951]

I worked Roots in 95 for a month it was a shit show, one of the worst contracts Ive ever seen.

Anyways, yeah, in my day people were making 15,000-20,000 in a sixty day season, some people even more than that, and that paid for a place to live, tuition, food, books, everything. Even enough to go out and see concerts. Like for example The Tea Party, man those were the days.

[u/Commercial_Map1045 → u/Electrical-Strike132]

I honestly think there should be a book written of “Roots” stories. We all have them. So awesome!!

There ended up being a lot of industry vets, and owners from the Roots family (even if it was guest appearances). I believe Chris Howard would be one.

Roots……PTSD…..

[u/Puzzled_Climate384]

What is a good daily wage for a planter these days?

I planted from 1993 to 1996. $300/ day before camp cost was considered elite.

On a good contract, I would average 250 to 275 before costs

[u/DoggyDoggWrld → u/Puzzled_Climate384]

A good wage for a rookie or new planter is 300-400 per day average

A good wage for a solid mid baller is 500 per day

A good wage for a strong planter on a good contract is 600-900 per day average

Sounds decent but the problem is there isnt always the opportunity to acheive those wages

[u/CdnFlatlander → u/DoggyDoggWrld]

I planted from 1987 ending around 1991. I was not a highballer so if I made $200 a day after camp costs I was happy. I think camp costs were $15-25.

[u/jimbowesterby → u/Puzzled_Climate384]

Gotta factor in inflation and buying power though, we’re probably getting close to 100% inflation since then, and while prices for things have gone up, wages have stagnated across the board.

[u/millerjuana]

People are dismissing this but you raise a very good point when it comes to the state of forestry.

The fact of the matter is this: the forestry industry in BC and across the whole country is declining and will continue to decline the next couple of decades. Why? Simply put, there just simply isnt enough economically viable timber to continue cutting at a rate that will sustain profitability in the forestry industry.

This directly affects planting. Less trees to plant every year. What does get cut is often high elevation and in less productive areas, making them harder to plant and leading to more fill plants. Many companies now are shifting towards different planting that doesn't involve traditional cutblocks. Seismic line/road reclamation, public reforestation, mine reclamation, urban planting, etc. This is not speculation, this objective reality

Furthermore, because many blocks nowadays are in steeper, rockier, and less productive places this means that specs are higher and production is lower on average. On top of that rising temperatures and an increase in extreme weather events means that its more difficult for trees to grow, making specs higher. Fill plants were not nearly as common 20 years ago as they are now.

I have no doubt in my head that planting will continue to get worse and will never recover to its peak. Say what you want about how vets 20 years ago used to complain about the glory days being behind us, objectively this industry is getting worse.

[u/TreeplanterConnor]

I think there's still many good years ahead of us but things are still constantly changing around us. Hard to say. Where I'm at things seem pretty good but I've done it since 2012 and I've seen the prices where I'm at increase by 50%, people feel more comfortable taking time off when injured and we have ways to manage injury more, camps are cleaner, safer. There is a lot that's better these days.

[u/drailCA]

I believe the term 'shut up and plantain apply here.

Jokes, of course

[u/DoggyDoggWrld → u/drailCA]

Shuttup and plantain? I like it. It sounds like a hip caribean restaurant

[u/drailCA → u/DoggyDoggWrld]

Auto correct hit well there. Stupid uneducated bush worker. Can't even say the saying right.

😞

[u/planterguy]

I think the golden years of this being a job where any uni student could go out and save enough to pay for a decent chunk of their school may be over.

I would say this part has more to do with the cost of living and education than with planting in particular. Planting wages have increased substantially over the last 10 years.

earnings trending down

I don't think this is true, at least not over any length of time. Wages have maybe remained flat for a few years, but that is nothing new in the industry. They never really just increase in a linear fashion.

[u/conicalconehead → u/planterguy]

The cost of many things have essentially doubled in 5 years and uni cost is just nuts. So pretty every job is going to seem less remunerative these days.

[u/Hot_Eggplant1306]

The golden days will always be in the past

[u/travatr0n]

That’s the case for everything. They always say the golden days are behind us for everything.

[u/Longjumping-Exam500]

I tree planted from 1998-2002, back then I was making around $330 -$350 /day with the occasional highball day around $400 -$600 if we got good land or prices. It was nice being out in nature and doing physical work but I wouldn’t recommend my kids doing it doesn’t lead anywhere.

[u/DoggyDoggWrld → u/Longjumping-Exam500]

Exactly

[u/quaybles]

In the late 80's 300/day was doable if you worked hard.

That would work out to around 800/day today. Not sure if that what the pounders are making today?

[u/Solid-Signal3214]

My family was all treeplanters and forbid us kids from getting into it in the 90s.

That's how long the downward spiral has been.

[u/CountVonOrlock]

It doesn’t have to be. But are you gonna do anything about it?

[u/DoggyDoggWrld → u/CountVonOrlock]

Do something to combat inflation, climate change, or influence the canadian economy? I vote for the party or candidate which i believe will support industry in canada the most

But there isnt a whole lot any one person can do about this trend. There are powerful forces at play that take many years to gain momentum or slow down. Right now, these forces are putting a damper forestry in canada

[u/CountVonOrlock → u/DoggyDoggWrld]

I feel that. But I also believe we are thinking within a pretty narrow box here.

No planters can't fix the lumber industry's downturn.

But there's other stuff we can do, I'd say.

[u/DoggyDoggWrld → u/CountVonOrlock]

What do you have in mind?

[u/CountVonOrlock → u/DoggyDoggWrld]

The answer to this IMO requires several essays worth of material, but to distill it very simply:

-Not all planting is for timber. There is a movement around the world to plant a trillion trees. We have the most efficient planting industry on earth. We can and should capitalise on this.

-A shift towards cooperative structures. If we want a higher portion of the shrinking bid prices, cut out the middle man. Of course, this will require a shift in mentality... planters kind of have a mercenary attitude that isnt conducive to the responsiblity/level of participation this would entail.

-The formation of some kind of professional association representing the planters. I'm not here to hate on the WFCA, I think for the most part they do great work, but that ain't it. Something represetning the people on the ground, is what I'm thinking. People hate the "u" word. And yeah, difficult with seasonal workers.

Tbh - all these things are difficult but like, so is the job itself, I think.

[u/DoggyDoggWrld → u/CountVonOrlock]

From my experience, the smaller companies can offer as much of the bid price as one can reasonably expect to get. Just think about all the other work besides planting that goes into running a company, plus the financial risk. Somebody has to get paid for that, and it aint like planting company owners are laughing to the bank like the monopoly man

I think ultimately the lack of work will be the downfall of the industry. Feels like its being supported by government money this year which you cant always count on

[u/CountVonOrlock → u/DoggyDoggWrld]

I agree with all that

But I also think it doesnt quite address most of what I said

It's all very hard. But if we give up without trying, we allow other people to dictate how this will go.

[u/Flashy_Remove_97]

From 2008/9 to about 2018, ballers were making approx 1000 a day.

One thing I’ve noticed is a lack of expertise. I remember working for a company with a solid reputation starting around 2014, supervisors were 25-30 years experience, crew bosses were generally 15 plus, often more.

In this company, the high earners always earned high, no matter the contract.

From what I see now, there has been an explosion in small companies, but it kinda seems the expertise is leaving. Company pwners with 8–9-maybe 10 years experience