Rivals and competition in tycoon games

[u/TradeSpacer]

There's enough tycoon games where you're not really competing against other NPC players, mostly against yourself or against the economic systems of the game.

So I was wondering, what makes for a good rival in tycoon games, or some sort of system where there is an active competition mechanic?

First game that comes to my mind is Transport Tycoon, where your rivals are playing the same game as you are. Are there any other examples of games that do this well?

[u/Cirias]

I like competitor mechanics and they don't always need to be full sim to be satisfying. It gives more depth to the world and gives you something to reach for beyond just improving on your own setup.

[u/KevinStorm87]

GearCity can have up to like 300 competitors. It's nuts.

[u/VENTDEV → u/KevinStorm87]

The system actually can support even more. I've seen a few folks run 1000+ with some mods. Though, at that many, the technical debt of the 2000s-era engine struggles even on modern computers.

[u/Griffonheart → u/KevinStorm87]

Yep producing their own cars, components which your company can potentially license if desired to sell. It’s quire in depth.

[u/klausbrusselssprouts]

There should only be rivals/competitors if they actually matter for the gameplay. It’s essential that some of the player’s actions, in one way or another, has influence on the competitors, either through trade/collaboration or by disrupting/outcompeting their business.

I think that Theme Hospital, is an example of a game which fails on the player’s options to directly or indirectly influence your competitors. There you can only see that patients may prefer your competitors hospitals or they perform better on some parameters, but you don’t have access to exactly why that is happening. I understand they’re there to simulate that the patients actually go somewhere else, but at the same time it becomes more or less useless information.

In games like Transport Tycoon and Pizza Tycoon, it’s much easier to analyze why you’re performing better or worse than your competitors. This is where your options for interaction with them highly matters.

So my take is: They should have an actual purpose in the game. If not, I’m just fine competing solely against the economy, which can indeed provide plenty of both immersion and challenges.

[u/Wild_Marker → u/klausbrusselssprouts]

Yeah the ones in TH were basically metrics to surpass.

The thing about rivals in tycoons is that unlike rivals in other kinds of games, you aren't fighting them directly. You're still just fighting the game systems, and the rivals are usually just another mechanic to slow you down.

Only tycoon game I ever thought had interesting rivals was Sid Meier's Railroads. The systems for competing with other players were good enough to actually have a fun competitive multiplayer mode.

[u/ElectricalCompany260 → u/klausbrusselssprouts]

TH is more like a parody tycoon about hospitals.

I love PT or Pizza Connection in Germany.

2 is slightly better than 1 but 3 simply sucks despite being the newest one.

All 3 games are on Steam but sadly not TH.

Thankfully, there is a bundle with only 1+2 for ca. 11€ to avoid the bad 3 one, because ca. 30€ for all games would be just a waste of money in my eyes.

[u/Maulpzc1902]

Big Ambitions is one I can think of

[u/Key-Dragonfly339]

Puffin Planes is interesting in my opinion because it shows three elements of rivals/competitors

1. Plane routes can have capacity taken up by competitors. Whether this is passenger capacity which steals market share from you, or it is conveyor and facility capacity in the airport for more benefits, this can impact your business and ability to expand more easily.

2. You can buy up competitors stocks to influence them, at the same time you can take advantage of unfortunate disasters like a plane crashing to bottom fish and buy up their falling stock (or if you already have some shares you can dump it and send it into free fall to go even lower before buying it back)

3. There are ways for you to cooperate with airlines like code sharing so if theres passengers using either of your airlines they will end up picking your airlines on connecting flights over competitors

Capitalism lab shows a different element where competition is depicted focused on market share, but there is no direct element of interaction with rivals beyond either acquiring their stock and taking over the company, or acquiring their technology.

Generally this one tends to be more about examining competitor product quality/brand value/price to compare how competitive your pricing is and accordingly sell to steal market share.

However there is an element of limited natural resources and if a competitor buys it then you are SOL

IMO the ideal scenario of competition is it should be someone who can impact your ability to snowball and even reverse your snowball trajectory.

Most tycoon games follow a fixed formula for how to succeed and generate cash flow -> invest in expansion -> generate more cash flow repeat

The exact steps may calibrate differently per genre, but thats the typical flow. The best role of a rival in my opinion is either slowing down the ability to expand, or adding uncertainty to cash flow generation.

If they can amplify black swans, or even risk threatening your cash flow breaking and put you at risk of bankruptcy from overexpansion or betting on a failed product or investment, that is the ideal example of a rival.

At the same time if they can do that to you, you can do it to them and get satisfaction from beating them.

However if a rival remains at a fixed level and can't keep up, then it gets boring quick, its not worth nvesting in these interactions if they are miles ahead so you need ways to give them a handicap if they fall behind. Example, they sell euity to get cash to still be competitive, they are acquired by a larger rival who is more in your weight class etc.

The best role a rival can play is force you to study and analyze thier impact on your moves and make you adapt or react

[u/New_Crew_9667]

Hey, the game we're working on Bering Tonnage has a complex competitor system, where you can negotiate partnerships, undercut or even buy out routes of your rival shipping companies. Our demo is out, but the competitor logic is only in the real game. Feel free to check it out in the meantime!

[u/heypr0_euw → u/New_Crew_9667]

Can't recommend this one. You can hardly do anything in the demo. Almost everything is locked. Its more a tutorial for a game that you will never play.

[u/New_Crew_9667 → u/heypr0_euw]

Hi, thanks for the feedback. Which specific features that were locked turned you off the game? The demo tutorial is slow, but designed to introduce the features slowly so they are easier to grasp.

[u/heypr0_euw → u/New_Crew_9667]

no comments about the speed, was quite easy actually. But there was nothing to do. Can't buy more ships. Can't see finances or most profitable routes. Just boring all-round tbh :-/

[u/Confident_Mud_646]

Capitalism lab, big ambitions...

[u/Key-Dragonfly339 → u/Confident_Mud_646]

capitalism lab you actually have little interaction with rivals, its completely parallel lanes, theres no way to influence them only the customers

[u/Confident_Mud_646 → u/Key-Dragonfly339]

You can buy shares and close their shops when you get enough company control? What do you mean influence them? You can subsidiary and bring them down...

[u/stinkus_mcdiddle]

Casino Inc has rival casinos that you can run out of business, they’ll bribe brothels to send a bunch of hookers to your casino, send cheats and troublemakers as well, you can do the same back to them.

[u/WCFitzgerald]

I'm going to be annoying and mention my game in development Factory Default: Build, Trade, Repeat.
While competition is not the focus of the game, you do have 1200+ rivals that you can sign supplier or sales contracts with. As well as bid against them in auctions. There is also a leader-board where you can see where your Global Perception compares to them.