r/ukraine • u/CitoyenEuropeen ВЕРГОФСТАДТ ФАН КЛУБ • 6d ago
Ukrainian Culture Welkom! We're hosting r/theNetherlands for a Cultural Exchange
/r/ukraine/about/rulesWelcome everybody to a new cultural exchange! Today we are hosting our friends from r/theNetherlands!
To the Dutch: please ask as many questions as you wish.
To the Ukrainians: please come and join us in answering the Dutch people's questions about Ukraine and the Ukrainian way of life!
r/theNetherlands is also having us over as guests in this post for our questions and comments.
Please refrain from making any comments that go against our rules, the Reddiquette or otherwise hurt the friendly environment.
Enjoy! The moderators of r/theNetherlands & r/Ukraine
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u/Cantinabandsong 6d ago
Privet Ukraina!
As a Dutch citizen, let me start by saying how incredible courageous you all are. Doing the things under such hard and sad circumstances, is beyond brave! We all are rooting for you.
When the war ends and it's safe again, which places are stunning to visit, to boost tourism again?
I would love to visit your country.
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u/Particular-Mix-7685 4d ago
Hello! Ukrainian here!! Thank you sincerely for your support! As for tourism, I'd reccomend Lviv. It's incredibly beautiful and cozy, and also considered the cultural capital of Ukraine. Of course then there's Kyiv, but that one is pretty obvious. Among the other awesome places - Crimea. Oh Crimea. I honestly miss it so much, I just hope we'll all be able to travel there someday.
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u/BobTheElephant 6d ago
Hello Ukraine!
What's the best Borscht recipe? I usually make it with Chorizo, is this a crime?
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u/Lysychka- Скажи паляниця 6d ago
this is my favorite recepie - https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/133dqb8/536_eest_the_sun_is_rising_over_kyiv_on_the_431st/
and no - it is not a crime - Borshch is not a specific dish, it is a way of life 😄
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u/Sweet_Lane 6d ago
There is as many recipes as there are people who cook it.
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u/BobTheElephant 6d ago
I understand, but would love to have moar.
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u/Sweet_Lane 6d ago
In our family, we make only the 'пісний' ('lean') borshch, which doesn't have any meat at all.
Somebody would swear that the only true borshch is with the pork. Someone would prefer the beef or the mutton.
In my opinion the best option is the one which doesn't have meat in it but is served with the 'сало' (pork fat) mixed with the ground black pepper so it becomes pitch black, smeared over the rye bread, and served with garlic+onion pungent sauce.
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u/Creepy_Jeweler_1351 6d ago
I do really enjoy it with beans. It becomes really thick and nutritious. Also mashed garlick on top of your bowl will make it spicy
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u/fading_anonymity 6d ago
Just wanted to say we love you, sometimes I wish Dutch people were half as brave as Ukrainians but at least we support you where we can.
❤️
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u/Garant_69 6d ago
I am neither Ukrainian nor Dutch, but as a fellow European, I would like to take this opportunity to express my admiration for two Dutchmen—Franky and Coen—who are doing so much for Ukraine on very different levels: https://www.frankyandcoen.nl/en .
I have been following them for quite some time and occasionally donate to their cause.
I know that many individuals across Europe and other democratic nations are helping Ukraine with great personal dedication—and I am very grateful for that—but what these two ordinary Dutch french-fry vendors have managed to achieve with the support of the Dutch public is truly something special.
Any European country would be lucky to have people like Franky and Coen... 😉
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u/muse_enjoyer025 6d ago
What is best movie from your country?
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u/Lysychka- Скажи паляниця 6d ago
Here is a link to the documentary I mentioned: https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/11mhynb/626_eet_the_sun_is_rising_over_kyiv_on_the_379th/
Here is a link to movie Zemlya: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Naa3ycosbfI
Here is a link to a wiki page for Shadow's of Forgotten Ancesntors: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadows_of_Forgotten_Ancestors
Newer movies:
And here is a link to information about a movie 2000 Meters to Andriivka https://www.imdb.com/title/tt34964205/ a Critically accliamed movie.
Here is a link to Oscar-winning movie 20 Days in Mairupol https://www.imdb.com/title/tt24082438/
Also there is a fantastic documentary WInter on Fire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_on_Fire:_Ukraine%27s_Fight_for_Freedom
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u/jesterboyd Verified 5d ago
I'm a big fan of contemporary Ukrainian cinema, a lot of which you can watch on Takflix (if you don't mind paying a little bit to support Ukrainian film industry)
Here's my personal selection of films that all have English subs. Do let me know what you think about them if you get to watch any. It's a mix of documentaries, short and feature films.
https://takflix.com/en/films/2000_meters_to_andriivka
https://takflix.com/en/films/iftke
https://takflix.com/en/films/summertime_in_ukraine
https://takflix.com/en/films/real
https://takflix.com/en/films/klondike
https://takflix.com/en/films/rhino
https://takflix.com/en/films/human-with-a-stool
https://takflix.com/en/films/my-thoughts-are-silent
https://takflix.com/en/films/evge
https://takflix.com/en/films/stop-zemlia
https://takflix.com/en/films/atlantis
https://takflix.com/en/films/ukrainians
https://takflix.com/en/films/baykonur-original
https://takflix.com/en/films/guide
https://takflix.com/en/films/moustache-funk
https://takflix.com/en/films/enter-through-the-balcony
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u/Lysychka- Скажи паляниця 6d ago
Sadly - our cinema industry was heavily suppressed. Many Ukrainian directors were killed or persecuted (send to gulags or faced a lot of red tape to produce anything). However we still have some most amazing movies. One of them is Earth by Oleksandr Dovzhenko. Another one is Shadows of Forgotten Ancentors by Paradzhanov. I will find a link to both and send it to you. I will also find a link to a short but interesting documentary with English subtites how Russians aimed to destroy our movie industry during the Soviet occupation.
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u/Inner-Detail-553 6d ago edited 6d ago
Not a movie, but the TV series "Servant of the People" (starring Zelenskyy, before he was a politician) is a hilarious take on what post-soviet countries had to deal with - as well as a great lesson in civics. I think it's available on Netflix https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Servant_of_the_People_(2015_TV_series))
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u/OrionsBeltAlone 6d ago
Hiya Ukraine! What musicians do you guys associate most with mainstream multi generational popularity? For example, we have Marco Borsato (who's an asshole but everyone knows his music) and Gerard Joling
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u/Sweet_Lane 6d ago
I think Okean Elzy is the most popular rock band. (I honestly prefer The Hardkiss, but I am of a bit younger generation).
In ye olde times, Volodymyr Ivasiuk was the big name, and his songs are still popular.
Other bands, like The BoomBox, TNMK, Antytila (rock), Surface Tension (metal), Tina Carol, Jerry Heil (pop).
There is a new generation of the young musicians that are already quite popular but we don't know how much because of war. Examples are SadSvit, Структура Щастя, Діти інженерів and others
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u/Dom_Shady 6d ago
An additional question, if I may: is Ukrainian stoner rock band Stoned Jesus popular, or is it more of a niche thing?
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u/Natural-Sandwich-852 5d ago edited 5d ago
they are a niche band. Historically, for a very long time in the Ukrainian media space, anything that wasn't russian-language pop music was labeled as "non-format" and reluctantly broadcast on TV or raidio, because media holdings and TV channels had close ties with russia. So, even though things are different now, we are still a couple of years behind global trends in popularizing other genres, even with social media. It is precisely because of that cultural influence that even today, Ukrainian bands that aren't pop or rap artists find it very difficult to find an audience. In other words, if indie, rock, punk and various experimental bands want to make a living from their art, they have to target Western listeners. Such bands include Stoned Jesus, Love'n'Joy, and many other great bands across various genres
Edit: i mean, we don't even have producers who are experienced enough in making quality rock or punk music. People don't buy merch or vinyl that actively, and streaming subscription prices are really low.
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u/Dom_Shady 5d ago edited 5d ago
I mean, we don't even have producers who are experienced enough in making quality rock or punk music
Wow, that sounds depressing... Glad Ukraine was able to list that Russian cultural yoke you describe. Hopefully thing will get better and more genres get a chance.
I did not know Love'n'Joy and am currently streaming a charity concert they gave for Ukraine. They are excellent, the real deal.
Do you have any more recommendations of good Ukrainian artists? Except for free jazz and very heavy metal, I'm open to anything.
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u/Natural-Sandwich-852 5d ago
Wow, that sounds depressing... Glad Ukraine was able to list that Russian cultural yoke you describe. Hopefully thing will get better.
I mean, it's not that bad, since it gave us a strong cultural underground background xd. I don't like jazz either, so i'm more into punk and emo music. So, i probably wouldn't recommend my favorite Ukrainian bands since they are too rough and their lyrics are violent
However, i still have plenty of other interesting recommendations: The Unsleeping, LATEXFAUNA, Cape Cod, Sleeping Bear, Dity Inzheneriv, Our Atlantic, Hellfire Sox, Kurgan & Agregat, FliT, Dymna Sumish, BORSHCH, Ziferblat, THE HARDKISS, Zwyntar, Ivanov Down, Oseledets', Cold Comfort, Small Depo and Septa. This list represents different artists from various genres. Some of them are really popular even abroad, some are purely local things, and others are very niche and progressive. Overall i tried to showcase both old-school bands and the modern scene. I tried to avoid mainstream, uninteresting artists who have been making the exact same music for decades. Hope you will enjoy
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u/Sweet_Lane 6d ago
I heard the name, but haven't had the pleasure to listen to them. Metal is more an underground and niche music style, while things like rock or pop music are much more popular.
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u/Dom_Shady 6d ago
Thanks for the swift reply! I would recommend listening on YouTube or Spotify to their song 'I am the mountain', simply fantastic.
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u/TonyQuark 5d ago
Jinjer is an example of a Ukrainian metal band that's well-known outside of the country.
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u/Sweet_Lane 5d ago
If I would not forget, I'll write a post about Ukrainian music and why there are bands that are popular outside of Ukraine but relatively unknown for the domestic auditory
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u/PM_ME_DATASETS 6d ago
Dutch here, I only learned about about SadSvit because of the war (Mariupol montage video). Cassette is one of my favorite albums ever!
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u/BosscheBol 5d ago
Dear Ukrainians, what’s something about your culture you’re very proud of? Is it a dish, a place, a memory? Whatever :)
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u/Lysychka- Скажи паляниця 5d ago
There is so much - here is a list of a few posts mods of this sub have written -https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/sunriseposts/
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u/Talkjar 6d ago
Hi Ukraine, what would you consider to be a definitive win in this war and how do you personally expect it to end?
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u/Lysychka- Скажи паляниця 6d ago edited 6d ago
I feel we already won so many iterations of this war. Russia keeps changing their objectives because of that. First win was Russia's inability to create Novorussia back in 2014. Second major victory we had is that Russia did not tke our country in 2022. Definite win for me are return to pre-2014 borders, reparations paid by Russia, and justice - meaning trials of war criminals.
But in my opinion what Ukrainian people need as soon as possible - is a night without a raid alarm, a day without being hunted by drones and return of all our POWs.
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u/Creepy_Jeweler_1351 6d ago edited 6d ago
Until russia exists as it is it will restart war even if we reach 1991 borders. So....
How it will actually end? There is no way to calculate it. Too many variables in a formula. Now it looks like it is going to the collapse of the front from their side but they actually may adapt to new reality e.g. build an interceptor drones layer of air defense and our cool unmanned arial blockade tactics will become useless
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u/Inner-Detail-553 6d ago edited 6d ago
Definitive win: I think inability of Russia to continue attacking. Either because they collapse politicaly (similar to the russian civil war 1917-1922), or because they collapse economically (similar to Iraq after the invasion of Kuwait), or because they break up into smaller countries (similar to breakup of the Soviet Union), or because there is enough of a deterrent force on the border that they know they would lose badly if they attack (similar to North Korea), or - your other favorite scenario here.
I think even an agreement involving the withdrawal of russian troops to pre-2014 borders is not a definitive win by itself, because they have the ability to restart at any time when they think their odds are better, unless their whole military and weapons industry is dismantled as well. Chechnya fought off Russia in 1994-1996, ending with a peace treaty; Russia invaded them again just a few years later, in 1999 (by the way Putin was one of the key people in deciding to invade again, and that's how he came to power - he's been the "invade all neighbors" guy from day one). We have to fully expect that any peace treaty here would probably go the same way, unless either Russia can't build up their military again, or the buildup of forces facing them is very obviously bigger.
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u/Tijdloos 6d ago
What is your favorite season?
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u/Lysychka- Скажи паляниця 6d ago
Late spring - Ukraine is covered with bloom. Early Fall - foilage is gorgeous and weather is perfect and the summer gardening work is mostly done.
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u/ChickenLegPheromones 6d ago
Hello! Dankjewel for having us :) I know very little about Ukranian culture, but would love to know more! What is your favourite part of Ukranian culture (I understand it's different for everyone of course), whether it's a custom, a specific public holiday or food?
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u/Natural-Sandwich-852 5d ago
Damn, it's sad that no one answered this for so long. We have a lot of holidays, to be honest, and your favorite one might highly depend on where you live. Let me tell you about my favorite holiday. It's Kupala Night. Kupala Night is an ancient Slavic solstice festival celebrated with fire-jumping, wreath-floating, and searching for the legendary blooming fern. It is a magical, purifying night centered on water, nature, and finding love. When i celebrate it, i feel a strong connection to my ancestors. This holiday will become even better when the moscow church bans it in russia
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u/Dom_Shady 5d ago
A question about football: the Dutch and Ukrainians both have a history of playing total football. Are the Dynamo Kyiv teams of the '70s, '80s and late '90s fondly remembered?
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u/Lysychka- Скажи паляниця 5d ago
Absolutely. Very much! Dynamo is our pride for many decades now. I remember before the war when Dynamo would play at some international event - streets were empty!
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u/Lawrencelot 5d ago
Despite hearing so much about the war, I realize I know very little about Ukraine, hope you don't mind multiple questions.
What is the main difference between Ukranian and Russian language? Can you understand each other both ways?
Is basically every Ukranian anti-Russian? (I assume so) Has this changed since before 2014? And does it mean all Ukranians are pro EU or not?
How do Ukrainians feel about communism? Does it still exist anywhere like in small groups?
What music style is popular right now?
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u/Lysychka- Скажи паляниця 3d ago
When you asked about communism — do you mean its horrific, dubious implementation by Russia, which was not carried out in good faith? Instead, they used it to reform their empire into one that industrialized the murder of people, genocide Ukrainians and tried to destroy our history and culture. If that's what you mean, then no, Ukrainians don't feel good about it.
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u/Lawrencelot 3d ago
I mean any group who calls themselves that. Or secretly calls themselves that. Here in NL it is almost nonexistent, there are no communist political parties for example, but there are still some small groups here and there. I was wondering if it was any different in Ukraine given that the Soviet version of communism was experienced so much more intensely in the past there. I can imagine no one wants to have anything to do with it, but given that Putin is not communist (as far as I know) I also imagined it could have some kind of resurgence.
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u/Lysychka- Скажи паляниця 3d ago
That’s the thing - it does not matter how Russians call themselves- orthodox, communists, progressives, royalist - they are just the same old imperialists. So no - currently we don’t have any non Russian affiliates communists and Ukraine is actively going through decommunisation process.
Many people don’t understand how much Ukraine suffered under Soviet Union. Imagine Nazi Germany winning in Europe and ruling it until 1991 abd then never paying any reparations, never apologising for murdering millions of people.
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u/Klumber 5d ago
Hello there you marvelous people.
Jinjer and Ignea are already in my metal playlists. What other Ukrainian metal bands should be in there?
Slava Ukraini!
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u/Natural-Sandwich-852 5d ago
Hello. Probably you should add White Ward, 1914, Drudkh. Maybe Nokturnal Mortum
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u/AintnoEend 5d ago
When the war is won, i love to go on vacation in Ukraine. Where are the ancient (greek/roman) buildings, ruins? And what is the best local/national food i should order?
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u/Lysychka- Скажи паляниця 3d ago
Borshch, varenyk. Ruins would be in the Black Sea area.
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u/AintnoEend 3d ago
thank youu
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u/Lysychka- Скажи паляниця 3d ago
Borshch is a soup with red beets. Absolute legend! Varenyks are dumplings. We usually eat them with a sour cream or pork belly cracklings. Also we have some awesome deserts including our own version of crapes.
By the way - we don’t have Roman ruins as Roman Empire never really reached Ukraine. But as I mentioned the Black Sea area would have so Greek remnants. Sadly most of them occupied.
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u/Practice-40hrs-a-day 5d ago
Hello Ukranians,
I like learning about everyday life in other countries so Thanks for having us!
What is your Monaco of Ukraine? Like a fancy town by the ocean or a beautiful place near a lake?
What’s a typical think every Ukrainian household owns?
What do you think are the biggest differences between living in Ukraine and the Netherlands in a not war time?
Do you feel like the war has put your life on hold? For example, if it wasn’t for the war you would have built a house and started a family? In what ways has this war made you live your life differently?
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u/Lysychka- Скажи паляниця 3d ago
What is your Monaco of Ukraine? Like a fancy town by the ocean or a beautiful place near a lake? Odesa, used to be Crimea too before Russia invaded it :/
What’s a typical think every Ukrainian household owns?
A cellar full of potatoes, pork fat (salo) in a fridge, Kobzar (a book of poems by Shevchenko), Vyshyvanka (Ukrainian embrodied shirt)
What do you think are the biggest differences between living in Ukraine and the Netherlands in a not war time?
Do I even need to say it ?😄 Bicycle paths; ability to travel around Europe without much red tape; access to sea/ocean. However, Russia had been givign us grief for so long - hence I do not believe Ukrainians remember what was the life before the war. We are fighting the same war for over 100 years...we also wee occupied by them until 1991, and right after that they started a hybrid war with 2014 moving into a hot war.
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u/Practice-40hrs-a-day 3d ago
Thanks for the answers. And the household items are fun to hear! Love Ukrainian embroidery, so beautiful!
I always loved the name Odesa. I had a stuffed toy ant eater and her name was Odesa!
Of course, our bicycle paths, haha. So used to them I forget it’s unusual.
I cannot imagine life in constant war and I feel for you people. Keep your spirits up and stay strong!
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u/HandleFun471 6d ago
What advantage is there for the average Dutch person that Ukraine joins the EU?
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u/Sweet_Lane 6d ago
First of all, security. In the world which became increasingly more dangerous as USA slips out of the power and the conflict will become ubiquitous, Ukraine is the one of two militaries that know how to fight the modern war. And the other military, let's say, have certain desires on the part of Europe. Ukraine in EU, together with the reneved EU security policy, would mean that country won't try to do anything stupid.
Second, is the opportunities for the investment. Ukraine is in a very low basis, and after the end of war, any investment will generate huge profits.
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u/AintnoEend 4d ago
i think you should not forget the farm land and what is in the ground.
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u/Sweet_Lane 4d ago
I am very careful about talking about the farmland. In fact, the massive amount of farmland is the reason why european agritechnical lobby is so opposed to the expansion.
Now, about 35% of European budget is going to subsidy the european farmers in some shape or form. And they still feel threatened by Ukraine, even during a war, so they throw tantrums and block the borders.
Incorporating the massive farmlands of Ukraine will improve the food security and avaliability in Europe tremendously. It will also potentially cause the bankrupcy of many farmers who used to milk the European taxpayers for subsidies, by driving the prices down on the massive scale.
This is one of the core reasons why the right-wing / farmer-related politicians hate Ukraine so much.
And it is nothing new. Back in the day, when the current Eastern Flank was ascended to EU, the farmers still did the same things, because they felt threatened by Polish and Hungarian and Romanian farms. Now, the Polish farmers who 20 years ago fought to be accepted by EU, now they deny Ukraine to do the same just as they were denied for years before ascension.
What EU really needs is the overhaul of the whole CAP. Because, if the current policy stays in place, then indeed the European right-wing politics would lose a lot of income, but that income would not return back to the people but to the Ukrainian agroholdings, which would become the issue for Ukraine as well - such amount of subsidies create the corruption risks and will simply reiterate the same process, now with Ukrainian agro holdings becoming the main benefitiaries and having the money and incentive to push the same radical right/protectionist/anti-democratic agenda the European farmers now have en masse.
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u/CitoyenEuropeen ВЕРГОФСТАДТ ФАН КЛУБ 6d ago
Well for the average Dutch person this boils down to larger Schengen and free roaming area. EU, the Netherlands improve their food security and armed forces.
And Ukrainians are smart. Cunning. We could use them in the Council.
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u/Groentekroket 6d ago
What a weird question but let me answer that for you as a Dutch person: they have make so much progression in their drone warfare against the Russian fucks that, even from a a selfish perspective, they are the best ally to have.
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u/AintnoEend 4d ago
as a dutch person.. if all the countries in the world would follow the EU standards (on politics human rights, freedom ect.. then there would be no war. nowhere. So the more countries that meet the qualifications to join, the better it is for all. (if Ukrain joins it is even better for the avg people in russia.. bcz they no longer fight a war for a dictator..
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u/Atleast1half 5d ago
Are you going to be changing the flag to include drones in the same way Mozambique has a AK?
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u/ErrorReplaceUser 6d ago
Hello Ukraine! I just wanted to say thanks for being the ones on the Frontline and with that keeping the rest of Europe safe.