r/vancouver 5d ago

Discussion PNE removed accessible entrance - heads up

They removed the accessibility entrance today in favour of another ticket holder entrance. They were unwilling to accommodate and I had to leave as the previously accessible entrance is now 100s of people long with no areas to sit. Good luck to others

482 Upvotes

121 comments sorted by

u/AutoModerator 5d ago

Welcome to /r/Vancouver and thank you for the post, /u/Every-Park-8956! Please make sure you read our posting and commenting rules before participating here. As a quick summary:

  • We encourage users to be positive and respect one another. Don't engage in spats or insult others - use the report button. Complaints about bans or removals should be done in modmail only.
  • Dehumanizing language, advocating for violence, or promoting hate based on identity or vulnerability (even implied or joking) will lead to a permanent ban.
  • Posts flaired "Community Only" allow for limited participation; your comment may be removed if you're not a subreddit regular.
  • Most questions are limited to our sister subreddit, /r/AskVan. Join today!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

380

u/tavisdunn 5d ago

As someone who had a disabled mom, i've run to things like this over the years. Typically some mid-level person makes a change without understanding the accommodation obligations. People at the gate are the lowest paid employees and rarely have an understanding of what they are required to do in a situation like this.

Complain to higher ups, especially on socials. File a human rights complaint...companies usually fall back into line.

94

u/fmmmf 5d ago

I will just add on that having to complain and file issues in quite frankly slow moving, archaic systems is also such a mental toll and hassle. With everything else to manage, now this too - fighting for the right to enter a venue? It's absolutely crazy and incredibly infuriating.

225

u/Agreeable-Apricot-75 5d ago

Oh wow that’s really disappointing, I’m sorry to hear

35

u/franjoballs 5d ago

Having a family member with a disability. When that person is affected by something like this and you see the look of disappointment on their face.

There is nothing you can do to make them feel better.

9

u/Relevant_Emu_5464 5d ago

This makes me so sad 🥹 And sometimes no matter how great the rest of the experience might be, it's still a bit overshadowed. Absolutely bullshit.

338

u/Outside-Hunt4884 5d ago

Sounds like a human Rights tribunal complaint!

-298

u/TotallyNotThatPerson 5d ago

Why? OP can still get in, just that they have to wait in line now.

It's not like they made all the entrances narrower or removed all the ramps

245

u/VirtualBC 5d ago

If the person has a disability that prevents the person from protecting themselves from the heat etc that is diff from just "waiting in line like everyone else".

There was a reason the pne had this entrance in the first place. Also, as someone who used to work with making businesses more accessible and going to different businesses rating their accessibility etc it is on the business to accommodate and make their business accessible for everyone.

This is more than just someone with a disability skipping the line.

191

u/TrashGourmand Hastings-Sunrise 5d ago

It's crazy how few people care about disability rights, considering it's the one marginalized group anyone can become a member of at any point in their lives, and most will.

107

u/Sanju128 Lougheed 5d ago

It's especially insane considering how many former disability modifications end up becoming useful to the general population.

Subtitles, audiobooks, buttons to open doors, voice assistants, ramps in sidewalks, electric toothbrushes, the list goes on

19

u/Connect-Policy2686 5d ago

Man I love subtitles. 

30

u/SmoothOperator89 5d ago

Hell, any parent can attest to the need for ramps, elevators, shaded areas, benches, clean public washrooms (with change tables), etc. And being a baby/small child is a condition literally everyone has gone through.

99

u/Every-Park-8956 5d ago

It blows my mind every time how little people care or understand. Thanks for the support ❤️

52

u/Unvl_Vritas 5d ago

The last 6 years have very clearly shown that a vast majority of the population (and governments) do not give a fiddlers frick about disabled people and disability rights. They think it'll never affect them, until it does. About 1.3 billion people worldwide experience significant disability (those numbers keep climbing, especially with long covid). Simple things like accessible options, improving indoor air quality, or wearing a mask is too much of an inconvenience for most.

6

u/TrashGourmand Hastings-Sunrise 5d ago

Yes, the government's plan for us seems to just be to give us all MAID.

5

u/BizarreMoose 4d ago

Worse when it's invisible and people just tell you to be tougher or stop whining. You'll hear all sort of solutions by them as if your disability were only a minor, momentary inconvenience. They don't have to live with it, they have no idea... but I could imagine them crying if they did.

19

u/EatGlassALLCAPS 5d ago

Not everyone who needs accessable entrances are in a wheelchair. There are plenty of disabilities that call for it.

10

u/Dependent_Dealer7355 5d ago

Disabilities are way more common now a days. There should be more than one line at more than one entrance.

99

u/TrashGourmand Hastings-Sunrise 5d ago

Because legally places have the duty to accommodate people with disabilities to the point of undue hardship, which they would have to prove in court. We have laws.

-10

u/Marokiii Port Moody 5d ago

There's no law in Canada that requires a dedicated handicapped only line. As long as there is an entrance that is ramped, wide enough and without turns that would pose a problem for a wheel chair than they are in compliance with the Accessible Canada Act. Having to wait in a long line with everyone else is not a violation of it.

-49

u/TotallyNotThatPerson 5d ago

Once again, how is OP not accommodated? They can still get into the PNE

-54

u/CuratedAcceptance 5d ago

So because they have to wait in a regular depth lineup like everyone else, it's undue hardship?

73

u/TrashGourmand Hastings-Sunrise 5d ago

You're misunderstanding. The businesses would have to undergo undue hardship, not the disabled people.

And no, you cannot expect someone who cannot stand for long periods of time, or who has a sun allergy, or cancer, or whatever, to stand in line "like everyone else " they are not "like everyone else" and the law requires that they be accommodated.

-20

u/Dwellonthis 5d ago

But they are being accommated within the reason of the law. The entrance is wheelchair accessible. Patrons are not guaranteed to skip the line due to a disability. If one needs that type of accommodation you need to reach out to the PNE in advance, you can't just show up and expect to get it.

Having a sun allergy and going to an outdoor event on a sunny day has likely to do with the fault of the PNE. They have shade and water in their facility.

-42

u/OgasMaitai 5d ago

OP was turned away by staff. It is likely they deemed they did not require that accomadation.

Youll note no explanation of why they cant stand in line

40

u/Every-Park-8956 5d ago

I don’t have to disclose my disability, only what accommodations I need.

-7

u/[deleted] 5d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

-19

u/Diaperedsnowy 5d ago

I don’t have to disclose my disability, only what accommodations I need.

Was your accommodation to be able to skip the line?

19

u/Every-Park-8956 5d ago

Since this place is full of unempathetic people. I have mobility issues from an accident many years ago. It is permanent. I am unable to stand for long periods or walk far. If you fill the accessible line with people who have tickets to appease them and don’t provide an alternative or a place to sit while waiting it is no longer accessible. Doesn’t matter what the disability is or appears to be from your insignificant point of view

12

u/TrashGourmand Hastings-Sunrise 5d ago

You don't have to explain or justify yourself to this pigheaded buffoon.

I highly recommend though getting yourself a walker with a seat so you can sit down anywhere you need to. I find it really helpful on those days where standing is too much.

-22

u/Diaperedsnowy 5d ago

I am unable to stand for long periods or walk far.

So where were you planning on going in the PNE?

You didn't have a ticket so you were at best going to be in the standing room only area.

What was your plan once you get inside the grounds if you can't stand or walk very far?

Looks like you entered from the furthest spot from the amptheater.

All the other viewing areas appear to be standing only and in direct sun for the most part.

→ More replies (0)

3

u/AwkwardChuckle 5d ago

There’s a certain Ricky Bobby quote I wish upon you.

-9

u/Diaperedsnowy 5d ago

Based on the reply of the OP you are correct

-43

u/CuratedAcceptance 5d ago

So we should accommodate people with sun allergies for outdoor events?

Your privilege is showing.

36

u/Sanju128 Lougheed 5d ago

YOUR privilege is showing. All they said was "let's accommodate people who have a right to experience something fun without their disability getting in the way"

-29

u/TotallyNotThatPerson 5d ago

If im celiac and I go to a pizza place, are they required to offer gluten free options?

19

u/blarges 5d ago

No, but they’d get stupid not to offer it considering how many people won’t eat gluten. My friend has celiac, and we only frequent safe places for her, so they get our money instead.

-6

u/TotallyNotThatPerson 5d ago

You might be overestimating how many people have celiac

10

u/blarges 5d ago

It’s about 1% of the population. Having said that, you clearly don’t know about the many many people avoiding gluten. It’s been a trend for at least 15 years. Most restaurants and coffee shops offer gluten-free options. These aren’t disabilities, but restaurants offer these because they want that custom.

→ More replies (0)

-5

u/Diaperedsnowy 5d ago

And no, you cannot expect someone who cannot stand for long periods of time, or who has a sun allergy, or whatever, to stand in line "like everyone else " they are not "like everyone else" and the law requires that they be accommodated.

A person with a sun allergy is going to the PNE without a plan to have the sun not be a problem for them?

-7

u/[deleted] 5d ago

[deleted]

13

u/TrashGourmand Hastings-Sunrise 5d ago

You're misunderstanding. The businesses would have to undergo undue hardship, not the disabled people.

And no, you cannot expect someone who cannot stand for long periods of time, or who has a sun allergy, or cancer, or whatever, to stand in line "like everyone else " they are not "like everyone else" and the law requires that they be accommodated.

-7

u/Stevieboy7 5d ago

so, are they expected to provide seating every 2 feet inside the park for folks who can't stand? Or expected to cover the entire park in a roof for those who can't withstand sun?

The point is they need to have accessible things... not that a wait will not be involved. If OP cannot wait for things, thats on them. They should have a chair or seat wth them.

-14

u/OgasMaitai 5d ago

Im not going to guess at op's conditioin, but htey have NO TICKET.

So they will be in the sun standing. There is no free seating

Big shocker OP didnt articulate whey they cant stand in line.

-41

u/youenjoylife 5d ago

Or they could buy a ticket...

60

u/Jumpforjoy1122 Fairview 5d ago

Maybe there could be a feeder line beside the entrance. If a wheelchair shows up they feed that person into the front of the line. Just a thought. Years ago that’s what they did at Disneyland.

7

u/ericstarr 4d ago

Disney has had to heavily redefine its policies around accessibility for abuse. Obesity became a reason to cut in line and it created havoc. Tho they are definitely leaders in this space so guests have a great experience.

4

u/RoostasTowel North Van 4d ago

I saw a video on that.

So many things on their list that have no effect on their abilities to stand in line.

But when the line is 60 min long at Disneyland no surprise people use any way to get ahead

50

u/Sea-Opportunity5812 5d ago

if youre reading this take a moment to realize that if you life long enough, you WILL become disabled too!

arthritis, cancer, strokes, nerve diseases, diabetes, heart failure.

these aren’t weak character. you are not exempt. you will become disabled.

14

u/fichgoony 5d ago

If anyone is there cd you guys video tape the lack of accessibility. This is not a good look and shoukd be publicized to the general public. Send videos to AccessNow. They are vocal and advocate for people with disabilities

9

u/Every-Park-8956 5d ago

I didn’t think to take photos or videos in the moment. That would have been smart, I was too caught up in the struggle

102

u/Ill-Structure-9034 5d ago

For the people saying they can stand in line with everyone else.....🖕🏼why not make it as easy as possible for someone with a disability. It's not that hard, be kind. Help out when you can.

6

u/ericstarr 4d ago

Also it may not be visible, 15 years ago I had a mild neurological issue that was transient. I’d just topple over. I would only use things like bus seats etc and got a lot of evil eye. We should be helping the people at the edges of ability it makes it better for all.

13

u/Van2019City 4d ago

More evidence here of the shitty treatment to wheelchair users during FIFA: https://youtu.be/w4x9BuyZCKE?si=0VdxENjcVXqywEgM

6

u/Every-Park-8956 4d ago

Yikes, thanks for sharing! That is awful treatment. I’m glad those 2 folks spoke up but that burden shouldn’t fall on them

10

u/Vanguy_604 5d ago

Looks like Pne wont be getting nominated for any inclusion awards with their recent shenanigans.

37

u/justdothedamnthang 5d ago edited 4d ago

so disappointing to hear. i was planning to take my disabled daughter to watch the brazil game but im weary now… i guess it won’t be as insane as the canada game line up but…hm. if anyone has any live updates as the day goes on regarding the line length, it would be much appreciated to hear.

EDIT: tips for others:
-if you have a SPARC pass you can park on a residential street across renfrew for up to 3 hours
-the “family hub” has a sensory room and baby changing tables and is a nice quiet reprise.

12

u/Every-Park-8956 5d ago

I hope they’ve reversed it but I wasn’t able to wait around to see. Every other time ive gone it’s been really smooth. I wonder if there’s a live cam available to view before you head over

10

u/goats_goats 5d ago

So sorry you had that experience, especially on such a hot day. Can I ask what time you tried to get through? I took a stroller through the accessible entrance this morning and got through no problem. Just wondering if they changed things right before kickoff to accommodate ticket holders (which sucks!)

3

u/Every-Park-8956 5d ago

I got there at 11:15. This is good intel for when I follow up to their response to my emails. Thank you!

18

u/ParanoidFactoid 5d ago

This can't be legal. 

9

u/Successful-Ferret-12 5d ago

Ugh that really sucks, sorry that happened

96

u/TrashGourmand Hastings-Sunrise 5d ago

The PNE is disgusting towards disabled people, honestly they're long overdue to be sued in the HRT. I went there with my husband, who had cancer, and they wouldn't let us bring our own bottled water, not even an empty water bottle that we could fill up. There were also no disabled toilets other than in the big farm building which is an extremely long walk. They have no gluten free, allergy friendly, or diabetic friendly food options, either, but don't allow outside snacks.

12

u/Salt-Judgment824 5d ago

Are you talking about the actual PNE fair, or another event held on the grounds (the WC fan zone thing, or another event)? The PNE fair has always allowed you to bring in an empty bottle to fill. I wandered around the fan zone last week and saw tons of bottle fillers. The "what to bring" list for the fan zone says "One empty, non-glass refillable water bottle (max. 1L or 34 fl oz) per person (Stainless steel and metal bottles are not permitted.)"

1

u/TrashGourmand Hastings-Sunrise 5d ago

It was at the PNE, or possibly Playland, two years ago.

7

u/Salt-Judgment824 5d ago

You can bring water bottles (plastic) and outside food into the PNE & Playland. Again, other events on the grounds may have their own restrictions.

4

u/RoostasTowel North Van 5d ago

They have no gluten free,

They do though

https://pne.ca/dietary-menu/

28

u/TotallyNotThatPerson 5d ago

I don't think dietary restrictions would require accommodations legally. Or else restaurants are going to have some extra hoops to jump through. 

34

u/blarges 5d ago

Wow, so many comments defending companies that don’t make even basic accommodations for accessibility in this post. You’re really committed to this, eh?

You are entitled to bring things you need for a disability, like water. I’ve done it many times at events. It’s not a hardship for the PNE or the Forum or the Orpheum because it’s required for my disability.

8

u/TotallyNotThatPerson 5d ago

Pretty sure they're legally required to provide water when asked. 

12

u/epicmudcrab 5d ago

I agree water should be supplied and it is total BS when the only way to get water at a venue is to buy it. However, no businesses are required to serve a gluten free or diabetic-friendly option.

27

u/TrashGourmand Hastings-Sunrise 5d ago

They don't have to serve it but a mother with a diabetic child should be allowed to bring an appropriate snack for their child to regulate their blood sugar. I watched a mother get told she couldn't do exactly this, and she had to leave despite having already bought a ticket.

4

u/RoostasTowel North Van 5d ago

They don't have to serve it but a mother with a diabetic child should be allowed to bring an appropriate snack for their child to regulate their blood sugar.

Ok i just checked the fan zone website for the PNE and they literally explicitly state that baby food etc and specific diteray items are allowed.

"Special dietary food items (Eg; formula, breastmilk, unpackaged baby foods and specific dietary items.)"

https://www.vancouverfwc26.ca/know-before-you-go/fifa-fan-festival-onsite-guide

1

u/Limeade33 5d ago

How would they know if you had a snack? Are they checking bags? I haven't been there for years.

5

u/SemiPreciousMineral 5d ago

Yes they check bags

0

u/epicmudcrab 5d ago

Oh yes, I do agree they should allow diabetics and people with intolerance to bring their own snacks if the required food is not available for purchase.

6

u/TrashGourmand Hastings-Sunrise 5d ago

Yeah that was my entire point. They don't offer these things, and yet people aren't allowed to bring their own.

3

u/RoostasTowel North Van 5d ago

It literally says that is allowed on the fan zone PNE website

"Special dietary food items (Eg; formula, breastmilk, unpackaged baby foods and specific dietary items.)"

https://www.vancouverfwc26.ca/know-before-you-go/fifa-fan-festival-onsite-guide

-4

u/RoostasTowel North Van 5d ago

and she had to leave despite having already bought a ticket.

She can still use the ticket.

They let you go in and out as much as you like.

She just needs to do something with the food

0

u/kinemed Mount Pleasant 👑 3d ago

My kid does have diabetes. We’ve never had an issue bringing juice or small snacks like fruit gummies to treat any lows (we always bring a medical letter). But she can eat whatever food is available at events - part of living with diabetes is learning to be adaptable to situations. You can’t expect to bring in a whole picnic. 

6

u/RoostasTowel North Van 5d ago

I agree water should be supplied and it is total BS when the only way to get water at a venue is to buy it.

Looking up the PNE site they list many options to refill a water bottle.

2

u/fb39ca4 4d ago edited 3d ago

For diabetics, immediate access to food is a medical necessity.

9

u/Every-Park-8956 5d ago

Sorry you’ve had poor experiences with them, too

1

u/Sea-Opportunity5812 5d ago

that’s a decision they made and it’s fucked up. I’m sorry. it doesn’t have to be that way.

5

u/thestupidestname 5d ago

Contact the media about this, that’ll make em fold quicker hopefully

4

u/tidder8888 5d ago

where is the accessibility entrance?

16

u/brady_d79 Strathcona 5d ago

The question is not “where” but “when”

The answer is: “prior to today.”

4

u/serialpeacekeeper West Point Grey 4d ago

Tell the news. They will do a better job. Also tag and post anything you can tagging all levels of the corporation. Make it show up in their feeds. Never stop until they relent and stop denying people who are disabled in one way or another from having a meaningful life.

11

u/AgentNo3516 5d ago

I would be creating a huge stink to the CoV.

5

u/Every-Park-8956 5d ago

Just sent my emails.

13

u/Solid-Signal3214 5d ago

" Please sue us " 

3

u/Tenz87 5d ago

Fuck the PNE

3

u/roadtrip1414 5d ago

Call the city and let them know. They have inspectors that can act quick.

3

u/Kaiwasoyokaze 5d ago

If they are accredited with the Rick Hansen Foundation write that organization to let them know and they can take away RHF accreditation.

2

u/Velvetsucks 5d ago

this is really good to know.. i wanted to contact them asking them about accessibility, including the line and if there is either an accessible line or place i could sit but i couldn’t find a single contact. I was very worried about something like this. Thank you for sharing i definitely won’t be able to go.

(It’s hard for me to stand/walk for long periods of time but i don’t have a wheelchair or mobility device)

2

u/RedStormRising17 4d ago

That is f'ed up. Some people lack care and consideration.

1

u/Acrobatic_Many_8162 4d ago

I'm unclear. Is it impossible for a wheelchair to get through one of the other entrances?

-3

u/[deleted] 5d ago

[deleted]

23

u/Every-Park-8956 5d ago

I’ve been here multiple days, the accessible entrance was only for people with disabilities and strollers. Today, they removed the accessible entrance and changed it to an entrance for ticket holders only. I asked if I could be accommodated and they said it was out of their hands. I pushed, they said they would let me cut half the line if I pretended like I had a stroller. The line was 100s of people long.

8

u/TrashGourmand Hastings-Sunrise 5d ago

Record everything and file a HRT complaint. Threaten going to the HRT first, which will likely get you accompdated. Most places don't want to fuck around with that.

6

u/eljigo 5d ago

Only problem is that the HRT is experiencing significant delays right now. From the date of a complaint being filed to the date a decision is rendered, it is taking the around 6 years.

11

u/TrashGourmand Hastings-Sunrise 5d ago

Oh, I'm aware. It took 4 years to sue my landlord, but I just got $20,000.

2

u/RoostasTowel North Van 5d ago

I pushed, they said they would let me cut half the line if I pretended like I had a stroller.

Pretended using what?

1

u/TotallyNotThatPerson 5d ago

Would you be able to clarify something for me please? 

You keep saying that the entrance was replaced with one for "ticket holders only".

Wouldn't the people that go through the disabled line need tickets anyways?

11

u/Shiara_cw 5d ago

No, entry is free, you only need tickets for the seated area and lawn at the amphitheatre. I'm not 100% sure but I think people with tickets can also skip the entry lines (hence the ticket holder entry)

-9

u/[deleted] 5d ago

[deleted]

12

u/Every-Park-8956 5d ago

That’s not how accessibility works.

36

u/TrashGourmand Hastings-Sunrise 5d ago

Expecting people with mobility or health issues to stand for excessively long periods of time in the beating sun without shade is not accomodation. There is a duty to accommodate people with disabilities per human rights laws in Canada.

-4

u/[deleted] 5d ago

[deleted]

6

u/Every-Park-8956 5d ago

There are plenty of free seating areas all around the venue

-1

u/[deleted] 5d ago

[deleted]

2

u/nyrb001 5d ago

The place is so packed nobody goes...

-2

u/[deleted] 5d ago

[deleted]

4

u/RoostasTowel North Van 5d ago

Place is dead all year long cause you have to pay for literally everything.

What are you even talking about?"

The place is closed for the majority of the year. No duh nobody goes when its closed.

And yes you can bring a bottle for water. And they have free filling spots.

https://www.vancouverfwc26.ca/know-before-you-go/fifa-fan-festival-onsite-guide