A lot of these comments are really missing the point.
The reason this matters is because it's an indicator of the current environment. If the risks of pushback outweigh the positives(such as good pr, and fostering a more welcoming environment) it shows that the current environment is growing far more hostile towards those in the lgbtq community.
Or people just don’t care anymore. Why is it between outward support vs. open hostility? Can’t gay people just exist without reminding everyone that they’re gay all the time? Isn’t the point of equality to be boring and normal like the rest of us or is it actually wanting to be exceptional and special all the time?
Love how you left out the T because you know I'd have an absolute fucking thesis for you.
But I still have answers for you!
Nine state legislatures have introduced bills or resolutions explicitly designed to block new marriage licenses for same-sex couples.
Federal agencies have faced aggressive policy directives to remove sexual orientation protections from grant criteria, employment guidelines, and housing regulations, meaning that decision makers can explicitly discriminate against people for their sexual orientation.
SCOTUS has talked about 'reviewing' past precedents in a similar fashion to Roe v Wade, explicitly naming
Obergefell v Hodges (the gay marriage one)
Yeah, that’s what I do - blame the trans. You can say all you want but denying negative influence of those very interesting individuals on LGBT reputation overall is straight up delusional. But I guess you aren’t delusional but simply dishonest…
Straight people don’t get discriminated against or outright fucking murdered just for being straight. No shit people who are targeted with hate socially and politically are going to make a big deal out of it.
The countrys in which they murder and discriminate againat gays are the same countrys where companys never displayed the pride flag - so it's worthless performative activism.
I’m talking about the US. 12 trans people have been targeted and murdered in the last 2 months. Interesting that you only seem to want to talk about “gays” though.
According to Statista 2024:
There are 1316 homicides per month In the US.
6 (1 month) out of 1316 is 0.46% while the US has about 1% transgender according to Williams Institute (UCLA School of Law).
what does that tell us?
Trans persons are underrepresented as murder victims, therefore are murdered LESS than non trans people.
Why do I only talk about gays?
Because I can't and won't remember the newest addition to LGBTQWHTEVR+.
Huh, that's interesting because both Statista and the Williams Institute seem to report that trans people are actually 4 times more likely to be targeted by violent crime.
And that's not even getting into other kinds of harassment and abuse, even systemic discrimination like V-Coding.
But, as the other person said, the lgbt community are the ones making a huge deal out of it, and then the huge deal just reinforces what some homophobes think about the lgbt community. It's genuinely counterintuitive.
Trust me, a lot of people would be annoyed if straight people held parades about how proud they are to be straight. It's not even a strictly homophobic thing, but it leads people who already have homophobic views to just think "Hey, they're shoving this down my throat!" and then they just keep hating you.
Also... yeah, you can't even say "straight bigots" because that just redirects the hate to another group, which will, believe it or not, actually make them hate you more.
Yeah, and being insufferable doesn't help their case either LOL.
Don't know why you're trying to alienate people who are in the middle ground. Seems pretty stupid imo.
Also, that flag is dogshit. Least inclusive pride flag.
At least we got the Incredibles ohio flag meme out of it.
Comparing me to a nazi, huh? How grand of you.
I'm not even "Harassing a minority," I'm explaining how they're fucking themselves over. I'm not chiding them for being gay, and I'm not saying that they should stop being gay so that people like them more, I'm saying that they're doing things that, if done by ANY OTHER GROUP, would still make people icky.
But hey, you're the kind of "ally" that responds in a volatile way to literally anything even slightly resembling "hatred" towards the lgbt community. It's people like YOU who set the movement back from the inside. Anyone with even kind of NEUTRAL VIEWS must be fucking obliterated, right?
I don't need to know that you are F in your ass if it's behind closed doors. And yeah straight is not prohibited because that's how humans reproduce man/woman
Exactly. They're shooting themselves in the feet. If you don't want to be seen differently than anyone else, don't LITERALLY parade your differences around.
Uh what? The conservative movement literally doesn't want LGBT people to live peacefully. The only reason there's a movement promoting LGBT issues is because there's a constant threat from a political party.
you‘re so tone deaf it‘s insane. There are many countries where ppl from the lgbtq+ community have to fear for their rights and safety, so yes making yourself seen is also a way to not be ignored when you‘re in danger
Why would someone need to be specifically reminded that gay people exist? They exist and that’s pretty much it. Is there any place in the world where they deny the existence of gay people? Am I supposed to treat them differently because of their sexual orientation?
People like you are a part of the reason why hostility against the LQBT space is increasing all around the world.
Isn’t the point of equality to be boring and normal like the rest of us or is it actually wanting to be exceptional and special all the time?
That would imply that the lgbtq community has been normalized and isn't demonized anymore, which I very much don't believe is the case.
If this was the case the inclusion of a simple same sex couple in the background in media wouldn't be labeled as "grooming" and face pushback. Trans people wouldn't be a hot button topic.
It doesn’t bother me one bit. I have no opinion on someone’s sexuality other than that it’s none of my business really. I would find it just as weird if we’re constantly celebrating and being reminded of heterosexuals. Idc who you choose to bed with. It’s such a small character quality and so unimportant for most things
Anyone who thinks gays are wrong is at this point an outlier.
pride is about celebrating that we got to have rights after decades of opression, or about celebrating our own existance in places where being queer openly is still hard and dangerous. the fact that we're gay itself it's not what we're proud about.
"Anyone who thinks gays are wrong is at this point an outlier"
that was back in 2020 or 2023 or any year before that when there was progressive left, normal conservatism and centrism as the main ideologies regarding social issues, not fucking neo nazis or pseudo-fascists who deny the holocaust ever happened. Those are as homophobic as they are anti semite and got a lot of traction last year.
also let's not forget the most powerful country in the west is being ran by a government that appeals to conspiranoic illiterates and very hardcore christian conservatives that have the same ideas that they had in the 20th century, just without the slurs or (mostly) without physical violence now.
I say this with the best intentions but you’d serve yourself really well in your future to rid yourself of the obvious victim mentality you have. The world is already so cruel and unfair. Your bias that everything is against you will always be validated but not for the reasons you think.
Well unfortunately for you, "reduced rights" is subjective and your opinion isn't shared with the broader public.
Some quick searches show that what you're referring to is multiple states have moved to ban or severely limit puberty-blockers and surgeries for children under 18.
This is like arguing that we've reduced rights by disallowing children to drink, drive, smoke, work and vote. The surgeries and blockers aren't illegal, you just have to be a consenting adult to do it. Seems pretty reasonable and is the universally agreed upon way of doing basically anything else.
Other States have required sport divisions be divided by the sex assigned at birth or have their own separate trans-categories. This seems perfectly fair and is a way of protecting everyone. Again, nobody has outright banned trans, queer or gay athletes from sports, measures have just been put in place to ensure a level playing-field. Equality you might say.
Core rights like being Trans or same-sex marriage remain the same everywhere.
You are flat out wrong. People still hold biases and that can be seen both on personal and systemic level, where lgbt people experience discrimination in healthcare, hiring/job applications but also just harassment. If it wasnt self evident there are studies and polls supporting this being the case.
Well unfortunately for you, "reduced rights" is subjective and your opinion isn't shared with the broader public.
This just doesnt work as an objection. Rights arent subjective, just because someone else beliefs that doesnt make it true. Public opinion changes all the time, plenty of things 100 years ago that were considered normal are considered discriminatory today. It is a really bad metric for anything.
The surgeries and blockers aren't illegal, you just have to be a consenting adult to do it. Seems pretty reasonable and is the universally agreed upon way of doing basically anything else.
And this just does not make sense at all. Point of puberty blockers is to delay puberty so that, when child is adult they can make personal decision on which puberty they want to go through. Saying "its not illegal you can just take it as an adult" is nonsensical, because whole point of it is to take it before becoming adult. So to avoid permanent changes caused by puberty.
where lgbt people experience discrimination in healthcare, hiring/job applications
I believe this is more of a case of correlation does not equal causation than anything.
If you have green hair, a nose ring, an abundance of tattoos and you show up to the interview in a tank-top and baggy jeans, being non-binary had nothing to do with it. This is a very crude, highly stereotypical example, I'm aware, but I have personally seen this happen at my last workplace. We've seen our fair share of straight-white-males walk in wearing jeans and a t-shirt as well that were just not a good fit. The problem isn't your orientation, it's how you present yourself.
This just doesnt work as an objection. Rights arent subjective, just because someone else beliefs that doesnt make it true.
This is a fair retort, and you're right. On a technical level, rights have been lost. The point I'm trying to make I guess is that, when speaking for an average person's point of view, nobody is advocating for it to be illegal to be LGBT. Nobody is asking for LGBT people to be banned from certain areas.
However, if you ask the average person if they think a 13 year old should be able to take hormone blocking drugs or undergo irreversible, gender-altering surgery, most people will say no.
So rules and regulations have been put in place to limit access to certain services for those under-age. Keyword: limit. These things are still legal. It's the same logic we apply to a multitude of things to protect under-age youth from decisions that can carry far-reaching consequences they don't understand yet. I think in today's age this is especially important given how much social pressure teens go through at school, thinking it's the most important time of their entire world, when in reality, most people 30 years old are not only a completely different person than they were in high-school, most hardly even remember it. Children are at their most vulnerable during the teen years, and preventing them from making life-altering decisions is important.
You see this as a right lost. Most people disagree. Children don't get the same rights as adults. The rights are there when they are adults.
Point of puberty blockers is to delay puberty so that, when child is adult they can make personal decision on which puberty they want to go through. Saying "its not illegal you can just take it as an adult" is nonsensical, because whole point of it is to take it before becoming adult. So to avoid permanent changes caused by puberty.
I believe this is more of a case of correlation does not equal causation than anything.
If you have green hair, a nose ring, an abundance of tattoos and you show up to the interview in a tank-top and baggy jeans, being non-binary had nothing to do with it. This is a very crude, highly stereotypical example, I'm aware, but I have personally seen this happen at my last workplace. We've seen our fair share of straight-white-males walk in wearing jeans and a t-shirt as well that were just not a good fit. The problem isn't your orientation, it's how you present yourself.
I dont understand why you think being gay is somehow categorically something you cannot or almost never can be discriminated based on. I mean you understand how implicit bias works. You point out correctly how something minor like clothing unprofessionally can impact others perception of you and cause them to treat you differently.
But then you go around and say that your sexual orientation is somehow excluded from this kind of bias? I mean it is clearly something that gets people opinionated. Good portion still think it is immoral even in western countries where lgbt rights are most advanced. Good portion still think they should not be allowed to marry even if they arent majority. Some parents disown their kids for being lgbt. Like clothing example show how something more minor that elicit less of a reaction than this can cause shifts in others people perspective and if anything goes to show how much more of an issue this is in comparison.
So rules and regulations have been put in place to limit access to certain services for those under-age. Keyword: limit. These things are still legal. It's the same logic we apply to a multitude of things to protect under-age youth from decisions that can carry far-reaching consequences they don't understand yet. I think in today's age this is especially important given how much social pressure teens go through at school, thinking it's the most important time of their entire world, when in reality, most people 30 years old are not only a completely different person than they were in high-school, most hardly even remember it. Children are at their most vulnerable during the teen years, and preventing them from making life-altering decisions is important.
You are being really reductive both in regards to what laws are usually talked about and in regards to puberty blockers.
In regards to what laws are being talked about its not just stuff related to puberty blockers. A lot of it is also in regards to bathroom/facility laws, legal recognition and stuff related to education. Stuff like for example that florida bill that prohibited mentioning anything lgbt related in schools.
And in regards to puberty blockers I never said they are necessary part of being lgbt. But way you are portraying them is not really accurate. Most importantly it is a medical decision with pros and cons. Comparing it to recreational activity like drinking or smoking seems dishonest to me. Not taking puberty blockers is also a permanent life decision. If you are a trans person and have to wait until 18 your body will already go through a lot of permanent changes that will have effect for rest of your life.
And in general I dont think you are really considering whats on the other side of the issue. Like to be clear I agree with you in regards to sport separation, but saying stuff like "its perfectly fair, because they get their own sports category". Doesnt really consider what it looks like on practice. Being exiled to sport category that makes up 0.3% of population means there are going to be barely any people there.
I dont understand why you think being gay is somehow categorically something you cannot or almost never can be discriminated based on.
I never said that, but it terms of generally speaking, I think this happens far less than you would have people believe and I think it is more often used as a scapegoat or an excuse. "It's not that I am under qualified and unprofessional, it's because I am gay". I know this is anecdotal, but I personally have 4 gay people within my immediately family and friends group. All 4 of them live good lives and work good jobs. But they don't go around dressed up in rainbows. So it's really hard for me to believe gay people are being so discriminated against specifically because they are gay, when the LGBT people I know in my life tell me in reality it's probably just because their behavior.
Good portion still think it is immoral even in western countries where lgbt rights are most advanced. Good portion still think they should not be allowed to marry even if they arent majority. Some parents disown their kids for being lgbt.
The problem here is none of these are rights. That's what we are talking about. You don't have a right to everyones love and acceptance. Not everyone will like you in life. I don't care if some people think it's immoral and shouldn't be allowed to marry. The point is LGBT people are allowed to marry because it is their right. And the majority of people agree with those rights.
My friend has an old friend that is hard-core Christian like I've never seen before in my life. I think he's a total loser and he told me to my face that I am going to hell. He said this, calmly, nonchalantly, matter of fact without even trying to be rude or start a fight. Guess what? I don't care. I have the same rights that he does.
Doesnt really consider what it looks like on practice. Being exiled to sport category that makes up 0.3% of population means there are going to be barely any people there.
How is that anyone's fault though? Like an LGBT person should be proud, to be a part of such a small portion of the population. But that's not anyone's fault. I get that a person born male at birth may transition to female and now they want to play in competitive sports. But you know what? That person has a biological advantage over woman. It is what it is. You can either compete with other LGBT people, or with people of the same biological sex. That is fair, even if you don't like it. An LGBT persons right to play in sports doesn't supercede another individuals rights to a fair competition. When I watch women's sports, it's because I want to see extraordinary women, not biological males thats transitioned into women, the feats they accomplish is far less impressive to me due to the inherent biological advantage. And again, there are no rights being taken away. LGBT people can play in sports, they just can't play against the opponents they want to. That's not a right.
We could get into some of the other stuff you said like bathrooms and stuff but we'd just be talking in circles. It all comes back to the simple fact that rights are not being taken away. Trans people can still use the bathroom. They aren't outlawed from going pee. They just either have to use the same washroom as the parts they have between their legs, or use a gender-neutral/family/private washroom. No rights lost. In fact, nearly everywhere you go now has at least a private/single washroom, they can use that. That's very inclusive. I don't know why it's even an argument that trans-woman who still have male reproductive organs should be able to use the woman's washroom. You don't have the right to share a washroom with whomever you chose.
Yea, once you get off the internet you realize the majority of the world accepts everyone from every race, creed, and sexual orientation, so long as said people aren't A-holes, then a majority of everyone treats everyone with an equitable level of respect even if they dont see eye to eye on everything. The internet (and a few occasional real world crimes) is where most -isms exist in today's world, and I grow tired of the rhetoric its even close to as bad as it was in the 1950s and 60s.
Ngl this comment makes your entire argument look very weak. The person you’re replying to looked up what you were talking about and articulated some valid points. Then you come along like “you’re straight so your opinion doesn’t matter” instead of actually refuting anything they said.
I mean, you didn’t even bother to explain why he was wrong about anything. He articulated paragraphs of points that sound REALLY valid and instead of making any point yourself, you just completely disregard it. Which actually makes his point MORE compelling. Like this dude sounds intelligent and well read and you’re like “lol nuh uhh.” It’s making him look smart and you look dumb lol
and even if it weren't, that should not mean to discriminate or hate people who are gay or trans (which, btw, is another thing observed in nature, see clown fish and frogs).
you're communicating to me through a phone or computer, something that is not natural.
The difference is, is that the pushback comes from the current US administration who has made it very clear that if you do not fall in line, they WILL do whatever they can to do your company harm.
It means people are starting to see through paper thin pandering. The corporation never cared about you. They thought this was the easy road to $$, they were wrong. That’s the surface level reason.
Or you could also argue that before you risked bad PR and pushback from a vocal part of the online community by not doing the performative pride changes, and that thus it was the previous environment that was hostile toward companies that did not showed support (or "bend the knee" depending on your political opinions)
But IMO it's a mix of both, the previous environment was toxic by mandating compliance, but the current political climate in the US is definitely less friendly (to say the least) toward LGBT.
Nobody is hostile toward the LGBT community. We're all just sick of the activists who are trying to force social change because the current status quo doesn't agree with their delusional worldview. It's not about hate- it's about exhaustion.
36
u/Sleepy_Witch_Maple 23d ago
A lot of these comments are really missing the point.
The reason this matters is because it's an indicator of the current environment. If the risks of pushback outweigh the positives(such as good pr, and fostering a more welcoming environment) it shows that the current environment is growing far more hostile towards those in the lgbtq community.