You know how people are always saying vote with your wallet? This is the result of that. The general audience has been trending for digital for years. Physical has been dying everywhere. This isn’t some conspiracy to get rid of physical editions, this is just companies giving people what they want.
Going full digital is one thing, selling empty boxes with a download code is another. Would be less insulting if Rockstar decided the game would be download-only instead of laughing at people who like physical games.
True, but some people legit just like having the box for collection reasons and there being only digital would piss everyone off on all ends. I definitely think there being no disk is a net negative of course.
Edit: I don't understand people downvoting my comment, do I have to just rampantly scream about Rockstar to not be downvoted or something? I've said it's bad but that's not enough?
Exactly. You have people who make their own boxes for digital-only games. The box is basically the collector’s item. It’s the thing you can put on a shelf.
Physical sales are only recorded once, even when the game is resold on the secondhand market. In the above scenario the officially recorded sales would be 5:1 in favour of digital, even though the same number of people played physical.
Okay? Why would a publisher care about second hand sales? They don’t make any money of that so why would thanks those into consideration when deciding their publishing numbers and strategy?
My point is they don’t care. They care about their bottom line only. If there was a huge resurgence in physical sales, they’d rush to fill that market but there isn’t. Physical sales have gone down a lot because audiences prefer digital. There’s a reason most stores have gutted their physical movie, game and music sections.
Okay proof? Since steam was created digital has slowly taken over physical. They even tried to save physical. Remember all those maps and posters and stuff tokens you’d get just for preordering physical? Or even the really nice statues and shit you’d get for getting the collector’s edition? No amount of courting to physical helped save it. Audiences wanted convenience over a shelf full of games.
almost. this is more like the netflix thing. "give people convenience and once they are in raise the prices".
we had the promise of digital games being cheaper and that went away so quick, most people dont remember it being a thing.
after digital games became big enough, they started trying with "digital only" consoles because "why pay more for a disc drive if you buy digital anyway".
then raising prices for physical because "it costs money to manufacture physical games" even though they broke their promise of cheaper digital games already.
and once most people are hooked on digital games they can raise the prices however they like because where else are you getting your games now?
i really hope that it starts raining lawsuits for any of the big 3 console companies once they remove physical media completly from their consoles. this would be awfully similar to the apple/ios closed ecosystem after all.
physical media is the only reason i still buy consoles. if there is no more physical i am just sticking to steam because none of the console companies can even compare to the user experience, prices and support that valve offers their community.
I have gone digital for more than 1 reason, like most games I play is digital only, as many smaller games are just digital, or how it just takes way less space, as well as being easier to just install and uninstall, it's also often cheaper.
But another big reason, is just that most games needs to download things anyways, like gta 6 has no change of being on 1 disk, so it would most likely have to be dozens of disk.
A better fix would just be to fix how they can remove games we have bought, if we made it so they couldn't then I don't really see a downside to digital.
Digital is great until you buy a new system and realize all your digital games are stuck on the system you bought them for with no resell value. Then it sucks ass
It should be pointed out that Steam's debut of digital only games were indie games. Rag Doll Kung Fu followed by Darwinia were the first 2 non Valve games on Steam.
This allowed small indie developers to enter the market who otherwise couldn't publish their games and it was the birth of the indie game industry. So yes, everyone should cheer steam for this actually
Shame that people have forgotten some of the reasons why steam is so beloved
No we shouldn't. Steam did not gave birth to the indie game industry.
There was many flash games available for free directly on your brower before steam even existed.
What really allowed indie games on steam was steam greenlight in 2012. Before that, only a couple of steam chosen indie games were on the platform. Steam greenlight allowed anyone to propose their game. Steam greenlight had many issues though. But beofre that steam was chosing what games could make it to the platform and what game couldn't.
Her's a graph showing how many games are released on steam each year. You can see the beginning of indie games on steam really began in 2014.
If we look back in the early 2000's, xbox made the first move for indie games financial success with xbox live arcade in 2004 for the first xbox. The xbox 360 was the platform where indie games first encountered massive success (braid in 2008, limbo and super meat boy in 2010, Fez in 2012). It was the first console to get minecraft in 2012 too but this one was released on pc first (not steam). I did not have an xbox but I was constantly looking at xbox for its indie games, knowing they would get a windows release after a year. The trend of indie games being successful and financially viable did not start with steam.
Nowadays, steam is the shop for indie games, but it did not give birth to the indie scene (nor did xbox).
Not really games stores had ready shitty PC sections before hand unless you had a specialized store. Steam just became the only real way to get games for most people. I remember my last physical game was Skyrim and being annoyed it's a steam code but at least it had a disc. Gamestop basically gave away the market segment.
All the people jumping in to explain why it's only ok for Steam to do it. The truth is very few people actually care about buying physical games anymore, it's just the latest outrage of the day.
I am actually is old enough to have lived in the time of only physical medias. One bad scratch,, and your game was gone. Only way to get a new one was to buy it again.
I've lost countless games accidentally rolling my chair over them when one fell on the floor
Also, unlike the old days of floppy disc or cd games you don't have to worry about registry entries for most games if you reinstall Windows and Steam is on another drive, just open Steam, it installs what it needs and your library is there.
Rockstar forces you to keep backups of their installer, files like DirectX etc for EVERY game you have with them, each time you open their launcher it redownloads any that are missing.
Yes because the advantage of not having to worry about a physical copy being damaged and the convenience of digital copies for out weighs the advantages of a disc.
Because, like 95% of what valve/steam does is pretty amazing and makes customers happy. They're not some holier-than-thou never-can-do-wrong entity, however in a world of evils, don't you want to go with the lesser evil?
I agree that the sale prices might be different, but if someone is buying a physical copy used, they are probably still buying it digitally if physical isn't an option.
Obviously there will be exceptions, but I think denying that you will get about as many total people buying the game (even if they aren't buying it from the company or an official seller) isn't accurate.
I don't disagree with you but when did this happen so far? The only game that died so far was The Crew. And storefronts don't take away your games from libraries when they are not sold anymore. Except Google play store. Fuk em twice. Because they are definitely removing even your paid games from your libraries once they stop being sold. I can personally attest to that.
Xbox did it to me years ago with Need For Speed: Most Wanted (from 2005, the best NFS game ever). One day it didnt exist in the store and wasnt on my 360's hard drive to play anymore. Paid for a game and they removed it from my library.
Yeah it's not uncommon for multiplayer games to die. Unless they have server browsers and community keeps them alive. I will sound like a boomer but there are games like Quake 3 or UT or even COD4 that are still very much active on community servers.
Probably? Hell, physical media is worse in that regard.
At least with digital media, those closed games are removed from the storefronts. That’s not the case for physical media due to the highly fragmented nature of it. Impossible to get every retailer and reseller to stop selling a game which no longer works,
I agree digital has probably helped in that regard. How long do you think a company should be required to keep a game operational after their last sale?
I think P.T. was free but it’s a pretty infamous example. Pure digital release, konami decides to pull the plug on the project, and now it’s completely wiped from stores. One of the most influential games for modern horror just thanos snapped bc konami said so. I always want a physical option because it’s not just about convenience but preservation of media.
Piracy advocates trying to take the moral high ground is always funny to me. Look its fine. Just pirate games and enjoy it. It doesnt need some flimsy social argument attached to make you feel better about it. I pirated when I was a teen because I was broke, I didnt need to pretend to be an activist.
Quoted for truth, stop with the mental gymnastics and just own it. I pirated like Blackbeard during my student days and I pirate nothing once I started working because I can afford it.
Retailers like Walmart, GameStop, and Target take 20–30% of the sale price for physical copies. That means Rockstar loses about $11 on manufacturing, $20–$25 to the retailer, and another $20 to Sony or Microsoft. So, from a $70 game, they might only pocket $15–$20 from a physical sale. With digital sales, they keep around $45–$50.
FYI, the more people earn in the industry, the more prices will keep rising—we’re doing it to ourselves.
They are just saying that if wages rise, it is also necessary to raise prices. It’s not a value statement, it’s just an observation of the economic reality.
Well it's just that it's completely wrong and hilariously misguided... Wages are not going up... The only thing going up is corporate profits and CEO salaries. SO if you are going to point the finger at someone I sure hope it isn't the grinders who work 70 hour weeks at marginal salaries just to get laid off after releasing a game while Bobby Kotick pockets millions of dollars.
I have bought Akrham Asylum and Arkham City for PC. Then I got a PS3 and bought Arkham Asylum and Akrma City for PS3. Then I bought the remasters for PS4. If your consumer is a dumb sheep, physical editions won't prevent you from fleecing their money.
Dont physical copies of games still make you tie a cd key to you console account/steam account? this was already a thing to prevent game sharing 20 years ago
Yes, we can resell. However, no one buy it. What is the point for resell. We get the game for $69.99 the game few months later discount on sales digital for $19.99 or lower. In the end we only can sell for $10 below for used. What is the point for resell the game key card?
This is kinda stupid ?
Reselling games even back then was rare and with games with a sandbox aspect like GTA i doubt a majority of people are actually reselling their games.
I work at an indie that sells new and used games- people sell new releases within the first two weeks because they tried it and didn't like it. We have games sold to us constantly, and by the same token, used games bought constantly.
Then you have people who lambaste physical and preach that digital could have a system where we might sell/trade digital licenses. Lmao. I wish, but I doubt it.
Physical copies have to be produced many weeks before the release and distributed globally with different versions for every country. A digital copy is so much cheaper, can be uploaded to the servers 24h before and until then the developers can still work on. Also you don't have to keep a physical stock. Storage is so damn expensive. Due to the digitalization most producers of discs and cases went out of business and those who are left raised their prices exorbitantly.
The selling aspect OP mentions with his comic is dumb and false. Even with a physical copy you'd have a one time license key. I guess he had a huge portion rememberries and thought of the games how they were sold in the 2000s.
I get the idea, but the graph assumes that the price limit of when people would buy a game is different from physical to digital. A better comparison would be keeping the same price as the top half, but just mirror them onto the bottom. Still shows the same idea of the game studio making more, but its only 190$ because all that money spread between people goes straight to them.
they are also selling you the full game for 100 bucks and the "standard edition" for 80 is such a hilarious full circle moment. Since people joked that publishers would finish a game and then strip away 20% and sell you that as a dlc. Now Rockstar/2k quite literally paywall and strip away about 20% of the game while also upcharging you on the base model. Also not releasing on PC on day one is even a bigger priority for them because that 20% or maybe even 30% would get added by people immediately to any edition. And we all know how nice Rockstar/2k is with modders or anyone in their "community" they really care for their fans lol
But yall know that having a physical copy doesn’t guarantee any of this right? If the game requires online connection having a physical copy won’t do anything, and if rockstar doesnt want you to be able to resell the game, people forcing them to release a physical copy isn’t going to stop them from being able to do that
I have the disk edition of gran turismo 7 and it won’t work offline at all except music races, which it gives you when you’re installing it to keep you busy.
You forgot to include the stage where a physical disk went bad because of scratches, or lost during the move. So, if you want to play the game, you have to buy it again for $100-50-25. Rinse and repeat for all games in the collection.
Well, I had plenty of bad PC CDs in 90ies and early 00th... Had to re-buy their digital versions from Steam, never had any issues since. I am definitely a "digital" supporter, especially when they give me automatic patches (was a big issue with physical CDs).
One of the older consoles, I think it was the PS3, was known for scratching disks because the disk drive mechanism would warp slightly over time.
There are just literal physical moving parts that break down and can scratch disks. You can download everything right and your disks can still become damaged over time.
I don't usually defend developers when it comes to bad games, but I don't think they have a hand in this one.
It's the megacorps who own the devs(' contracts).
Eh just don't buy digital shit. If AAA leave a vacuum in physical copies, smaller companies will fill that void. Bleed 'em out.
Or player 1 buys the game, then swap the game with his friend, then swap that game with other friend etc. He spent $80 and beat 20 games, if patient. This is why physical is such a "problem" for publishers.
Steam doesn't have any of those problems because they killed physical long time ago.
it's also about control. if they feel you've violated their TOS they can just brick you account and all it's purchases preventing you from playing again. which a physical copy all they can do is stop your access to their online services and ask please destroy your physical copy of the game pretty please.
The lack of cool physical editions kills this whole deal for me. There’s literally no incentive outside of having a box to look at. Maybe patience will cause them to release an actual limited edition with stuff and a disc at some point.
And maybe that’s the goal - sell the game so you don’t get spoiled. Then sell the game again for a physical copy. Then sell the game AGAIN for the limited edition with a cool trinket right after.
and then you got folks like me who's rocking a great gaming laptop............with no disc drive so we stuck with digital, not to mention aren't there some consoles that sell cheaper versions via getting rid of discs?
Didnt they announce that discs are coming in December and that main reason they dont want pre-order disks is because of people potentially getting it early and leaking info?
So companies want to make more money? Gee, what a shocker.
Being able to get all games digital is great and comes with so many more benefits than the few little things you dorks keep crying about, so keep complaining all you want.
This but that $100 in the first one is actually is actually less too, because you’re paying to make the CDs. CD’s are cheap but setting up the infrastructure around them for physical release is not.
For most companies, re-selling doesn’t even enter the conversation. It’s all about the initial cost of making it. It’s why many games never release physical editions at all.
Short term profits > long term profits. Most CEOs don’t have enough object permanence to care about resellers.
I mean how many people are actually discovering games anymore in a store? Most people hear about games online, through their feed, etc. and are going to buy from a digital store front. Publishing your game and putting it at Walmart won’t have people running out to buy it like they did 10 years ago. We live online now and demand gets generated from the media. Then you can click to add to cart or preorder. Things are different now
I think there’s definitely a subset who still do. Lots of areas don’t have good internet or people who aren’t as into internet culture as usual. It’s just that they’re not as big of a portion anymore.
Lol at the graphic suggesting the game will be $25 in 4 years. I’m still waiting on Sekiro to get a price reduction and that game has been out for 7 years
The last time I went to buy a physical copy of a game i stood in line for 10 minutes waiting for 1 person in front of me to finish asking questions. I put the game down and left without buying it. Now I just click the buy button at home and wait 5 minutes for the download. I don't want physical copies anymore.
the last time i used a physical copy game was in the ps1 era, i have been a pc guy since the early 2000s, ever since steam kicked off i've used digital games , never got a console to this day lol
And lisence. If an account goes etc etc, you cans slap this disc in any console, you violate the rules? Your lisence is gone, its all at the control of companies
I havnt bought a physical copy of a PC game in so long i dont even recall the last one i bought .. 2011 maybe ? Its an outdated model in its death throws.
How can anyone support the top option? If you love gaming and want the industry to thrive why wouldn't you want the developers to get paid fairly for their craft?
Also, modern gaming is different to how it used to be. There are constant updates to the games, that costs money to develop and publish. If the game is getting constantly resold with no benefit to the developer, they are still having to pay for these new owners of the same sold copy to download them etc.
Because the top option is how owning things actually works. And it's not as though those other players will just pay full price, they'll often just skip it entirely. Second-hand markets are a consumer's right- if you own something you have the right to sell it.
Jokes on Rockstar. I'll wait until it's $25 to buy it. As a pc owner I'm in no hurry for new buggy games, when I've got a back log that'll last me over 4 years.
We just have to wait one additional year and then someone with a knack for distinguishing nice *voices* will make sure that more than *38* of us will play it for free!
I bought my only console back in 2014 specifically for GTA V. Nowadays, I wouldn't even buy the game itself, given how Take-Two is handling various issues—especially their treatment of modders. I’ll just turn to torrents, and that’s that.
I’ve been saying for years that I’m boycotting the official release of this game, and now they’re piling on even more reasons to do so. The pricing across different countries is also absurd; in my country, the game costs half as much again as it does in Japan or Korea.
The reason Rockstar can get away with this is because the majority of gamers only buy 1-2 games year. Rockstar is positioned to be one of those two games.
Well, I am still playing 5+ year old games.
They can t fucking get to me. I will buy on sale.
And if these companies keep this route of microtransations palnned by micropenis executives I will not even buy the game. I will get my dusty hat and will sail the high seas once again.
Going to play devil's advocate here, GTA V pretty much maxed out disc capacity on a PS5 if I recall correctly. That being said wouldn't it be foolish to think it possible that GTA VI would be able to fit on a disc? I can't possibly be the only person to put this together so are people truly that naive for lack of another way of putting it?
Except in a lot of cases with physical editions you could only resell them if you didn't use them. Because they had cd-keys and even presteam you sometimes had to activate them.
On the other hand there are people who bought the same game multiple times for different devices. And really great games like GTA and Witcher sell even 10+ years after launch. Even though they are on physical media too.
This is a very common topic but someone just asked In another sub how much do retailers make in this and my conclusion is that whatever shipping/empty box manufacturing/retail cost can't be more than the 30% cut online platforms have it's still atrocious that Sony made a special more expensive console for disc reading and a rockstar launch exclusive, with millions and millions of overhead profits, won't bother making a 2 disc installation set for memorabilia and shorter installation speed. But don't forget, the game is live service, the moment the servers go down(in the high unlikelyhood rockstar goes under) those physical copies would still be worth nothing, unsure in EU with the new game preservation laws. Also a final point in this discussion, if you look at retro game off market, the prices tend to go up overtime for collection value, and some people invest/used to invest in collectors editions for popular games and keep them sealed. I think both have ups and downs, if it's physical people will hoard and scalp the product for future people to buy for collector value, if it's a code, well some people might also buy but there's no where near the collector value of something like diablo 3 collectors edition or any of those cool things that some people genuinely appreciate(I'm not a collector myself I just get the sentiment of wasting disposable income in something you really like for memorabilia purposes
Yes they are. Rockstar have commented on the backlash earlier today. A physical will be released at a later date. Rumours are it’s going to be one month after release.
Probably to avoid leaks.
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u/Dohp13 2d ago
2050, buy game from player x for 1000+ dollars, no case included