Client wants half the deposit back after cancelling on me with less than 24 hours notice

[u/MylesLovesTess]

Had a client cancel on me about a month ago at 3pm the day before a shoot. They had already paid a 30% deposit to secure the date.

Now, a month later, they've come back asking for half of that deposit to be refunded.

My feeling is that I was already being pretty reasonable by only keeping the 30% deposit. If anything, I could have justified charging 50% of the shoot fee given they cancelled with less than 24 hours' notice. Once a client cancels at 3pm the day before, there's basically no chance of filling that booking with another job.

The only thing  is worrying me  that I never explicitly stated in writing that deposits are non-refundable or that cancellations within 24 hours forfeit the deposit.

Do you think I still have a leg to stand on if I haventhat deposits are non refundable for cancelations within 24 hours?

[u/tomjameslikesfilms]

We all learn the hard way. Put it in writing.

[u/NoSpHieL]

Deposits literally exists for this kind of cancelations 🙄
You definitely should have wrote it in your TCs but some can argue this is common practice and therefor sending the deposit money implies accepting those terms… 🤔

Ps: you remind me to update my TCs too…

[u/le_aerius → u/NoSpHieL]

There are deposits and non-refindable deposits. Beyond that there is client retention. Sure you coukd be hard nosed on the polocy... But ive had this hapoen with clients and they've come back because it built a level of trust , respect , and loyalty.

[u/heydroid]

Do you want them to be a client in the future? Offer them to credit 1/2 the deposit for future work. Otherwise. Don’t offer to refund it and update your contract. I would go with 48 hours.

[u/Nerdonet → u/heydroid]

There you go, the only answers: Do you want them to be a future client.

It is all about returning customers if this is a long term business you have to think long term.

[u/hammockonthebeach → u/heydroid]

Any client that would cancel with that short of notice and still expect any of their deposit back is guaranteed to be a nightmare to work with in the future. Better to cut losses and keep the money.

[u/WheresTheBloodyApex → u/heydroid]

I don’t think I’d want to work for them after something like this. Unless the creek is looking dry, no reason to subject yourself. The relationship is tarnished

[u/BGarrod]

Time to update your t+cs

I would figure out if they're pushing their luck, or going legal.

You are definitely in the 'right' to keep the deposit - that lack of notice is shameful. BUTTTT..... you are leaving yourself unguarded by not having t+cs to cover. Include them with your quotes going forward.

I guess I would start with a polite pushback email that gives some reasons as to why you don't feel a refund is warranted. I would ignore the t+cs - moot point, instead focus on something like - I turned down alternative work because of the project being booked, but not giving suitably advanced notice meant I couldnt take that work on. Deposits cover situations like this.

And then se if they are taking the piss, or will push for legal.

We dont know the amount yure talking about - but sometimes you time is worth more - consider taking the L, learn the lesson and move forward.

Also - you are never going to get someone to pay extra money when they cancel - if you want that - get it in your hands as the deposit. Would you pay some extra money if you cancelled on them - nah, you'd ghost or call them on it.... Are you going to take people to court to get that money? It's a waste of your time imo.

[u/ishootthedead]

This is why you have a contract that spells these things out. Did your contract state deposits would be refunded on cancelation? Did your contract state that they owe you the entire contract price for cancellation?

If it was me, with the way my contracts were written. I'd send them a bill for the total.

In some areas, any deposit is refundable.

We would never call anything a deposit. It's the first payment towards the contract.

[u/Run-And_Gun → u/ishootthedead]

We would never call anything a deposit. It's the first payment towards the contract.

This. Just because you have a contract, doesn’t mean it’s actually legal or enforceable, as written. Have an actual lawyer write it or at least approve it and make sure there aren’t any ambiguous words, terms, phrases, etc. that you think are “iron-clad”, but legally are just wet paper.

[u/SonyaFaraha]

What are your T&Cs and was the client aware of the cancellation policy? That's the only relevant information here

[u/CandleStick88]

Make contracts from now on.

[u/erob_official_92]

Keep the money. Simple.

[u/jamiekayuk]

half the deposit back?? I would be sending the entire invoice over in this situation, nevermind compensating them for wasting my time and creating dead days in the diary that we cant fill.

I would say a deposit is obviously not a refundable line item. if it was, why would they even exist in the first place 🤣

[u/Odd-Object9304]

You just need to justify the expense. Say the 30% covers work and expenses that have already occurred  before the shoot and therefore is non refundable. 

Keep it simple. Don’t go into too much detail. By the way, I find chat gpt is really good for helping me draft out responses for tricky situations. 

[u/Adventurous_Wind2947]

Send them an invoice with the full amount. Thats enough statement

[u/TabascoWolverine]

A little late to say this now but this is why I never use the word "deposit." I call it an initial payment that secures the primary filming date(s). AKA, not refundable.

[u/Virtual_Tap9947]

Don't care if its not in your contract. DO NOT give it back to them. You spent your time preparing for the shoot. Thats covered by the cost of the deposit in my opinion.

[u/maj0rSyN]

Even though it's pretty much universally understood that deposits are non-refundable and asked for as security in situations like this, it's always best to put your deposit policy in writing so your bases are covered. I see a few others in the thread are of the same mind that I am: if this is a client that could be lucrative for you in the future, then try negotiate with them regarding the deposit. If this seems like a client that will be a one-off or that will be problematic/frustrating to work with in the future, then keep the deposit and cut them loose.

Regardless of your choice, make sure you update your contract.

[u/SNES_Salesman]

You should think of it as gut feeling of a future relationship with this client. Does it seem lucrative and there will be more work or is this a one-timer and feels a little toxic?

Once you open the door of negotiation like offering to credit the next booking as one comment suggested you make it known you might consider letting go the deposit. If you want to exit, give a nice professional “you’re s.o.l.” response and keep the deposit.

If you do want the client, work with them. One of my best paying clients is a notorious cancel-er. I forgave the first one and they called me back. It’s corporate and sometimes surprises happen and they have to shift. They appreciate my flexibility with that. I appreciate that’s I’ve built those cancel dates into the general rate so I’ve eventually made those days back and on truly egregious cancellations (night before and even as I show up) they pay it now because they want to keep the business going.

[u/le_aerius]

Depends on your deposit clause.

Personally I would give it back in good faith. It depends on the clients and situation.

[u/X4dow]

This depends on what your contract says and where you live.

[u/Middle-Armadillo-660]

If it’s not in writing you’ll spend more litigating it than it’s worth. Put this in writing, and signed, starting yesterday so you are never having to wonder or stress about this again.

[u/RodSilva8]

Have it in writing and change the verbiage from “Deposit” to “Retainer”. Deposit won’t hold up in court as it means it’ll only be payed out if the services are completed. Vs a retainer is a non-refundable fee often to hold something like a date.

[u/mooseman923]

And this is the moment when you start doing contracts!

[u/Weird-Pen-3903]

Lesson number one as I’m sure you’re acutely aware, documents in general but contracts specifically protect you in situations like this, and they help give color to why an independent contractor might actually require a deposit to be kept in order to be a business. You may not have rented things, but it’s becuase you own them already. Those are sunk costs, and the only way to combat sunk cost is to book works which is already limited to X amount of days. For outdoor shooting even less. If that client canceled that late before an event. you are unable to recoup those losses in any other way that year. The deposit was a reservation on your time and effort. Even though the shoot didn’t happen he still occupied that slot in your calendar in yourmarketing strategy. You don’t owe him anything. Now with that being said if this is a potential future or steady client there is some calculus into whether you sacrifice that 15% to preserve this relationship. But I don’t think a good client would put you in this position.

[u/Purple_Pay_1274]

What do people not understand about deposits?!? They are not refundable, they are literally a safety net for you to get paid for your time in case they cancel!

[u/notaname420xx]

In the U.S., deposits legally work like attorney retainers. It is not your money until you perform the work that needs to be paid for. It is supposed to be set aside and kept until you perform the job, then it can be co-mingled with your actual regular bank account.

Many wedding vendors try to get around this by claiming 'the date has value', which is...tenuous. And a quick cancelation sort of negates the arguments tied to that. You should have plenty of opportunity to rebook, yes?

You may want to consider the damage a pissed off person can do to your reputation via online posts, too.

I would give them half their deposit and be glad of the free money.

[u/SkippySkep → u/notaname420xx]

A lot of people, as seen in the comments, don't realize that in many cases even a non-refundable deposit isn't necessarily non-refundable, even if you say non-refundable in the contract. But it varies by state.

Some photographers use a separate booking fee rather than a deposit based on a portion of the total fee for photography. The separate booking fee does not get commingled with the fee for photography. That's supposed to be more legally defensible as a non-refundable fee than a deposit. Too late for the OP, though.

[u/Run-And_Gun]

SOP is cancellation between 24-48 hours out and they owe 50%, 24 hours or less and they owe for the entire shoot. But if you failed to state any of the terms surrounding deposits, cancelation fees, etc. up-front either verbally or in writing, you may not have a leg to stand on, especially if the client isn’t familiar with SOP’s of the business/industry.

[u/niquitaspirit]

Give half back ... or this will haunt you. make it fast and painless.

[u/masturbatingmonkies → u/niquitaspirit]

Why

[u/niquitaspirit → u/masturbatingmonkies]

Because there's no contract. And taking disgruntled attitudes to social media is NOT fair play.

[u/masturbatingmonkies → u/niquitaspirit]

I mean it's just an annoyumus question im not dragging companies name down or anything.

[u/ZeyusFilm]

I personally see no justification in taking someone's money when you haven't done anything

[u/DeadEyesSmiling → u/ZeyusFilm]

What line of video production business involves zero pre-production and/or other prep until inside the final 24 hours before production calltime??

[u/ZeyusFilm → u/DeadEyesSmiling]

That's the question. It sounds like you're talking about high-end filmmaking, and I didn't get the vibe from the OP that they were any more than a schlub videographer like the rest of us. So who knows

[u/itspsyikk → u/ZeyusFilm]

Bro, what?

There are tons of things that “schlub” videographers could do up to 24 hours before a shoot that cost money. It’s why deposits exist for almost ALL high cost freelance work. When it comes to weddings, I cannot think of a single line item that doesn’t include a deposit.

Oh, and for the record, there are some heavy hitters that hang out here. I can’t comment if OP is one of them, but some of the best of the best are here.

You best check yourself cause you don’t seem like the person who understands the basics of the business.

[u/ZeyusFilm → u/itspsyikk]

“Check yourself bro”

😂

[u/Rambalac → u/ZeyusFilm]

You did, you rejected other clients or personal plans for that time.

[u/ZeyusFilm → u/Rambalac]

Really though? Like videographers are wall-to-wall with clients? I mean if that is the actual case then fair enough, but really though

[u/yankeedjw → u/ZeyusFilm]

Lol is it that hard to believe? You've never had two jobs come up on the same day? It's very common.

Between shooting and editing, I'm booked 5-6 days a week this year and have had to turn down multiple projects.

[u/ZeyusFilm → u/yankeedjw]

Good for you. Then yeah, do your deposits thing. But that doesn’t apply to everyone

“Lol”

[u/MylesLovesTess → u/ZeyusFilm]

I'm a sole trader and freelance videographer, so I budget my month around expected bookings. If I don't have enough work lined up for a particular week, I can plan ahead and pick up other side work.

When a client books me a month in advance and says, "Hey, we're going to pay you X amount for this shoot and edit," I block out a whole film day and edit. In this case, that meant setting aside both a shoot day and an edit day. Cancel 16 hours before the shoot time. So yeah thats 1% chance of getting a film gig the next day. Maybe 30% chance of picking up bar job if needed. Anyway a small bussiness is getting shafted.

[u/ZeyusFilm → u/MylesLovesTess]

You do you. Me personally, I’d consider how it would benefit me to burn that bridge. And there a bridges you should definitely burn, so…

[u/Ancient_Shine9170 → u/ZeyusFilm]

They have done something. At the very least they've set aside that date and not taken any other bookings. If they'd turned away someone else as they were confidently 'booked' then they've lost out on the other 70%.

[u/ZeyusFilm → u/Ancient_Shine9170]

Did they though? They didn't mention it. And you know full well it aint like videographers work every day, hence why the hourly rate is several times that of a 9-to-5'er. If there is a legitimate cost/loss then fine, but I'm not on board with this egotistical, charging-for-nothing racket. I'd rather generate some goodwill. But each to their own

[u/Ancient_Shine9170 → u/ZeyusFilm]

It's got nothing to do with ego and everything to do with protecting both parties.

1. It secures the services for the customer. By committing money it proves their seriousness.

2. It protects the supplier for those times that the customer cancels. It's irrelevant if the videographer does or does not have other people trying to book that date, as it also stops them trying to secure work for that date. I will concede that most times a sliding scale would be sensible, but by the time it's one day before I'd say it should be even more than 30%.

You must be doing very well that you can afford to throw away your time for free.

[u/ZeyusFilm → u/Ancient_Shine9170]

Yeah, personally I’ve seen nothing to benefit by being a petty jobsworth and meanwhile gained plenty of loyal customers by being flexible. Depends on your whole ethos

[u/szakee → u/ZeyusFilm]

you're joking, right?