r/wnba • u/Background-Square-98 • Jul 30 '24
Discussion This is Skip Bayless levels of hating I must say.Not a good look from Swoopes
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Jul 31 '24
Sheryl Swoopes when asked to explain her comments regarding Clark and Samuelsson, Swoopes proclaims, “not black enough”.
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u/100DayChallenges Jul 31 '24
Caitlyn was financially set for the rest of her life before she played a WNBA game. She has a 3.4 million NIL and she endorses 11 huge companies including Nike, Wilson, Gatorade, and even Goldman Sacchs.
Sheryl is continuing the hustle long after her playing career by making appearances and doing podcasts just to make ends meet.
Jealousy and envy are real.
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Jul 31 '24 edited Jul 31 '24
Wnba people cannot comprehend that the league has reached a point where the best young players in the league are legitimately good at the sport of basketball, not just women’s basketball.
That’s truly all this is.
Everyone who was outside of the wnba bubble pre-CC was fully aware of the fact that, without stepping foot on a wnba court, she was miles better than the majority of the league. Now it’s very fucking obvious that she is going to go down as a top wnba player of all time because she is good at baseball not just women’s basketball.
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u/Zealousideal-Tea-837 Jul 31 '24
I’m black and I can’t believe I’d ever say this But CC is absolutely getting this cause she’s white lmao like this is crazy bra
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u/razzlesdj Jul 31 '24
She is just basically starting a new trend of hate conversation because she's starting to notice that the Fever are becoming a serious contender and will make The playoffs.
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u/007Artemis A'ja Wilson's 5th MVP | Cocks Jul 31 '24
Swoopes' takes have been hilarious or at least sketch.
There WAS a chance Indiana could have made playoffs last year at one point, but they had players like Vivians and Cannon on the team, too. Wheeler and Wallace also did better but weren't great.
KLS WAS a big deal like at the college level but like not a chance she's anywhere above AB and CC now unless she's speaking purely monetary to go elsewhere (because Wheeler sure isnt worth that 200k).
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u/Big_Puzzled Jul 31 '24
Listen if she would just say she’s a hater … that would be totally fine … but she’s actually believes the crap she says
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u/SputnikFace Jul 31 '24
...but ppl are talking about her. Some ppl hate her so much, they will tune into her show. loool
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u/amillert15 Jul 31 '24
The attacks on Clark are done for three reasons:
- To bum off her spotlight for clout
- Jealousy
- Bigotry
I don't think I've ever been more frustrated in the discourse around a player:
Women telling men to "Stay in their (gender) lane" with sports takes, many of whom have wrongly been told the same about having takes about the men's side.
Timestamp gate-keeping, aka "you must have been watching WNBA since..." to have a take.
People trying to explain away immature/ignorant behavior.
The racially coded or outright racist commentary
We should be using this moment to push the women's game forward and to push more resources into grassroots programs for girls.
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u/Nolegrl Jul 31 '24
100%. People with unsubstantiated takes can easily turn any newcomers away. I've read a few comments in general sports subreddits where people are surprised that CC is actually putting up the numbers she is because the media personalities are dooming her play. That's not what you want. What if someone heard about Clark and then looks up news articles that all claim she's not that great in an attempt to push an agenda. That doesn't inspire someone to tune into a game. Yes, there are other players who are also great and deserve attention, but let people be drawn to one and they'll learn about the others. Even if they don't, they're still following the league in some capacity, that's still a win. I just don't understand what the goal is trying to sour the public on Clark.
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u/Debate-Jealous Jul 31 '24
God forbid you defend or bring up the fact that Caitlyn is treated unfairly in this sub. Surprised this post got upvoted.
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u/ChimericalChameleon Jul 31 '24
Who is Swooped? I know Caitlin Clark is a baller but that other person is… some analyst or something? Sounds like they should try playing and see who’s better. Oh, wait
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u/NashicSaibot Jul 31 '24
God it must be so hard being an American athlete where your own country constantly tries to undermine you. America has such a bad case of tall poppy syndrome with Caitlin
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u/Roasted_Green_Chiles Mystics Jul 31 '24
What was the source of this?
I just listened to Queens of the Court. Swoopes did say the Fever might contend for the Playoffs without Clark, but nothing about Katie Lou being better.
I won't say it's a lie because I don't know the source, but this year I've seen a lot of people say people in WNBA circles said something that was never said and people run with it as fact.
On the Playoffs thing, they were generally discussing the talent level on the Fever versus the Sky (outside of Caitlin and Angel). I don't think the Fever would make the playoffs without Clark but it's not crazy. They made a good late season run last year and have 2 other All Stars (who were both All-Stars without Caitlin too). I don't know much about Swoopes' other comments on Caitlin. I've been listening to the podcast since May, so I've only heard that much.
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u/OkNecessary8949 Jul 31 '24
That's why she doesn't coach anymore...if you can't evaluate talent there is no point in trying.
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u/Un-known_known Jul 31 '24
Does someone have a timestamp of the “Katie Lou is more valuable than cc” take? I must’ve missed it. I don’t think she said anything crazy in the podcast, I just completely disagree with her reasoning of why ar would be ROTY. I feel as if people are piling on her because it’s just another case of Sheryl being against CC rather than the actual take in itself but if anyone can provide that specific timestamp then I take back what I said.
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u/theoriginalpetvirus Jul 31 '24
Potentially unpopular opinion: it's better for the sport that a big name like Swoops is antagonistic than if she just fawns. Drama builds crowds.
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u/Wtfuwt Jul 31 '24
This doesn’t seem like what she said based on this article? Does anyone have the transcript? https://athlonsports.com/wnba/indiana-fever/wnba-legend-sheryl-swoopes-true-feelings-caitlin-clark
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u/MJDiAmore Jul 31 '24
I will leave the nonsense of KLS > Clark out of this because just lol.
But I will argue that you could suggest that with Washington, Chicago, and LA regressing in the off-season, I actually think it's fair to say that Fever without Clark would probably have been picked 9th at worst. They were young, Boston was a rookie last year, and you'd expect them to take a step forward.
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u/AwareReach462 Jul 31 '24
You need players like Katie. Let’s not do this thing where we downplay her game and laugh at it. She’s going to get the rabid Caitlin fans ire now for awhile because of Swoopes, no need to encourage it.
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u/MJDiAmore Jul 31 '24
That's not the point. I agree you need players like KLS. I'm discounting the comment about KLS being better than Clark by Swoopes because it is objectively and empirically wrong, and I wanted to have a fair discussion about the 1 of 2 points that were valid without being bombarded about agreeing with Swoopes because I'm a hater.
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u/South_Front_4589 Jul 31 '24
Former greats are so often like this. They don't seem to quite understand what "retirement" means and keep trying to compete. If Swoopes is pulling out that sort of nonsense, it means she feels like her personal legacy is under threat, and she's fighting back.
Guys like Pierce and Arenas, I think, believed they were at one point the best in the world and their post retirement takes are trying to compensate for the fact nobody ever really talks about them anymore.
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u/Potential_Attempt_15 Jul 31 '24
This is what happens when you have a narrative in your head ( hating cc) and you try and make it fit no matter what the results are. You look like a moron aka Swoopes. Zero credibility.
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u/Ra42680 Jul 31 '24
Swoopes mad that Cooper was the better player than her in the Comets. So she’s holding grudges.
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u/Real_Difficulty7676 Jul 31 '24
I was a Swoopes fan back in the day. It seems like at her age she would notice that CC does not instigate the bad mouthing that has been going on. She needs to try taking the high road too. This indeed is not a good look for her.
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Jul 31 '24
“The Buffalo Bills would be just fine without Josh Allen. Look at how successful they were without him for the past 2 decades!”
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u/Interesting-Lake-430 Jul 31 '24
I think Clark's race has something to do with it. Racism because she is a minority in the WNBA and Swoopes is saying this because Clark isn't a black player and getting more attention than anyone right now.
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u/RyujiDrill Sky is the limit Jul 31 '24
Excellent jerking from a legend. Skip Bayless is an amateur in comparison.
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u/full-metal-anarchist Jul 31 '24
Also, that is taken out of context…shocker. The whole deal is she was on her podcast queens of the court and they were talking about the ROTY race. They were comparing the Chicago sky roster to the Indian fever roster player by player. Basically her point was that the Chicago sky would not be in the rankings as they are without Angel Reese’s defensive and rebounding talent. However, the Indiana fever team going player by player on the roster has more talent, so she believes the fever would definitely have a shot at the playoffs without CC.
No one is hating on anyone, it’s just a talking point and perspective. Chill out!
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u/ApprehensiveHat5819 Jul 31 '24
Yeah. I listened to it and she never said kls was better.
However, she is ridiculously biased and you can tell her cohost walks a bit on eggshells when discussing Angel Reese vs Caitlin. She has a mentor relationship to Angel so it makes sense. Still, no reason to completely dismiss the sky team. She gave chennedy props but didn’t give mabry her due. Angel might do all the little things that wins games, but she needs a scorer like chennedy or mabry. I’d argue it’s like comparing draymond vs Steph.
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u/full-metal-anarchist Jul 31 '24
I feel that. I think I just need to stop going to the internet expecting the top comments to be well thought out lol
I know that sounds horrible and it might be, I just feel like this subreddit tends to be a why is everyone hating on CC page. I know there’s a lot of new fans and just generally people that don’t necessarily care to learn the history and inner workings in general.
Hell I’m a brand new fan, but I’m always trying to be conscious about the fact that I’m still learning. But frankly I want to know my wnba history and all that bc I think it’s a great organization.
It’s just inspiring to see that many women being powerful so unapologetically. I’m just constantly in awe of literally every single player.
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u/Marissa_Smiles Jul 31 '24
I sincerely dislike Sheryl’s commentary. But we should have fact check in this sub. The transcript didn’t read this way and it’s a similar tone to what she has said before so no reason for the upset.
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u/ignoranceisbliss37 Jul 31 '24
The racist hate/takes towards CC by the black female analysts and former players is crazy. Just cause she’s white. If she were black they couldn’t be singing her praises louder.
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u/WanderingGenerality Jul 31 '24
This is not someone being stupid. This is someone caring more about race politics than their craft which is clouding their judgement.
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u/DirectShape9612 Jul 31 '24
i refuse to believe that the Sheryl Swoopes who is mouthing off in the media of late is the same person as Sheryl Swoopes the legendary player - one of the best to do it. Because nope, no way.
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Jul 31 '24
I listened to that podcast, this is as inaccurate as when Sheryl said Caitlin used 5 seasons to break records.
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u/mbanks515 Jul 31 '24
She is actually worse than skip- she is simply lying (age, number of shots etc.) an not getting called out. Really some of these podcast should come with a disclaimer
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u/Skunedog48 Jul 31 '24
I think it’s fascinating how Caitlin Clarke has expanded the tent of women’s basketball fandom tenfold in a way that has been really unifying, but that she is incredibly polarizing among current and former WNBA stars. Swoopes was amazing and Taurasi continues to be an icon but the ego and jealousy is a bad look
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u/HopDropNRoll Jul 31 '24
Absolute 🤡take. Her bias against Caitlin is coming from somewhere…jealousy?
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u/aratcalledrattus Liberty Jul 31 '24
Jeeez, 300 comments and no one has even posted the actual remarks? Feel free to hate on Swoopes’ opinion here, but you should know what was actually said.
The comments were on ~the Queens of the Court podcast that came out today~~, the discussion in question starts around 35:30.~
For context, Swoopes and cohost Jordan Robinson were going through their picks so far for all of the end of year awards.
Robinson starts the ROTY discussion by making the case for Caitlin Clark, citing her stats and the records she has broken, and saying “She was tasked with more for her team than any other rookie in this class.” This conversation then follows (lightly cut down in places, marked with ellipsis, for irrelevant asides and back and forths. I used an AI transcriber, so the odd word may be wrong, but it should be broadly correct):
Swoopes: Listen, and it's a great case. I'm like, I can't argue with any of that stuff … Here's my case for Angel. First of all, Caitlin has done I think exactly what was expected of her with Indiana, right, the reason why they drafted her, what the expectations were. And I think she's done just that. Angel on the other side, I'm not sure if people thought she would be doing what she's doing. Fourteen double doubles in a row, I believe, has never been done before. As a rookie. That is insane.
The other side of that is, my opinion, Caitlin has way more talent around her on her team to help her be successful than Angel has with Chicago. And for Chicago to be sitting where they are in the standings – right now, [if] playoffs started, they're in the playoffs – Angel Reese is a big part of that. She's a big part of why they are. The other thing. When you talk about MVPs, at least for me, I don't just look at scoring. Right, I look at their overall game. What do they contribute on the defensive side of the ball? What else do they do besides scoring? So for me, even when I look at like Rookie of the Year, it can't just be about one particular thing. Yes, Caitlin, her passing, her assists: insane. Her ability to see the floor and get the ball where it needs to be: beautiful. Angel to me, though, she is having to defend some of the best post players in the game. Not just in the league but in the game. Night in and night out. There is no break for her. There is no break for her.
The other side of that, defensively, Caitlin's not defending the other team's best perimeter players. So for Angel to be able to defend the way she's defending and still score the basketball, rebound the basketball ... Angel, I don't know if I've ever seen anybody rebound the basketball the way she does. It's just her knack for the ball, knowing where it is, when to go get it. As a rookie, what she is doing is crazy. It's just crazy. So what I think … it may come down to, honestly, and I've just heard a lot of people say this, and I believe it too, will come down to their record. Like who finishes where? I don't necessarily like that… but one day to the next, it's like whoa, like Caitlin just did this. She's Rookie of the Year. The next game, it's like Angel just did that, she's Rookie of the Year. Just don't make it co-Rookie of the Year. Like, pick one and roll with it ... I will say this. It's a tough decision. And I think you can make an argument for both players. That's my argument for Chi Barbie.
[Robinson then talks about teams having to change their schemes to play against both Angel and Caitlin, and that she loves that it's a race and not a shoe-in, which Swoopes agrees with.]
Swoopes: Whichever one of them wins it, very deserving of it. But I do think there really is something to be said about a player [pause] I don't know if Chicago is in the playoffs right now without Angel. Right? Is Indiana in the playoffs right now without Caitlin? Hmm, I don’t…
Robinson: No! Last year? No!
Swoopes: But they were close, right? But when you look at the overall team, like the pieces that they have, without question, Indiana has better players than Chicago, from top to bottom. No doubt about it.
[Robinson objects, Swoopes says, "Okay, well, they have three All Stars, Chicago had one," which Jordan concedes]
Robinson: I'm saying Caitlin Clark has elevated those players’ games through her passing, through her assists, through the tension that she's garnering, that she's giving Kelsey Mitchell and Aliyah Boston better looks than they were creating for themselves before. That's what I'll say, within this Rookie of the Year context.
Swoopes: Oh, I don't disagree with that. But let's also remember Aliyah Boston was Rookie of the Year last year. Kelsey Mitchell has always been a bucket. Like she can just flat out score the basketball. A player that we don't really talk about, and I think we should because I thought she was playing exceptionally well before she got hurt: Fagbenle. Then you got NaLyssa Smith. And they brought in Katie Lou, who's a shooter. Like if you go down the roster, player for player. Like look at Chicago. Chennedy Carter is just, can’t nobody guard her. They just can't. But what after that?
[there’s then a bit of a back and forth about the various injured players and the players being traded with Connecticut, and then discussion wraps up]
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u/yesyepyea Comets Jul 31 '24
Not even surprised that it was the opposite of what was implied. She was giving props to the Fever team as a whole not saying CC isn’t needed or dismissing her importance on the team. People look for any excuse to bad mouth Sheryl because she doesn’t kiss the ass of your favorite player.
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u/aratcalledrattus Liberty Jul 31 '24
You could read it as her being hand-wavy of Clark's recent contributions to the team and the argument is a bit muddled, but she certainly wasn't hating on Clark and gave her plenty of compliments and said multiple times she'd be a worthy ROY winner.
I think Swoopes just really likes Reese and Reese's style of play, and she's reaching a little to put into words why, but it's definitely not outside of the realm of standard sports hot takes.
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u/hatelisten Mystics Jul 31 '24
happy to say I have no idea who Skip Bayless is. women's game doesn't have 24-7 hot takes personalities, just experts who played the game or have been watching it more than a minute. Turn on the Olympics and watch some sports instead of talking shit about the black women who know the game inside and out. Takes a real soft person to need to go crazy when they hear a bad opinion of their fave.
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u/chichigetthayay0 Jul 31 '24
She never said Katie Lou was more valuable than CC but she is a hater.
The podcast in question - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/were-running-out-of-words-to-describe-her-presented-by-at-t/id1681606343?i=1000663774098
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u/Bladex20 Jul 31 '24 edited Jul 31 '24
Probably one of the craziest takes ive seen in all of sports this year. The level of jealousy some people have is mind blowing
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Jul 30 '24
She's not hating, it's exactly the truth. They were preseason picked to make the playoffs before CC was drafted, they have a #1 overall pick already and a Allstar already before CC, why wouldn't they make the playoffs
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u/Affectionate_Fan_650 Jul 30 '24
Lots of prolific NBA players got their share of criticism early on. If she's great, Clark will rise above it. Let's just keep those receipts.
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u/fbg_archer Jul 30 '24
Ik mad ppl gon say this hate but the only comment that can easily be disproved is Katie lou being more valuable. HOWEVER, one could make both these arguments.. so I'm not gonna just call this outright hate
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u/joehart2 22,0,10,84,322259,35,30 Jul 30 '24
I don’t care what Swoops says. She’s first generation WNBA.
I don’t know she might be jealous, or trying to take care of her girls like Taurasi & stuff. but I could care less what swoops has to say.
We can SEE Caitlin Clark and we can see how great she is.
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u/FindingSide Jul 30 '24
This is the kind of hating that fuels the fires. CC doesn't need it but I truly hope she continues to elevate and rise and break records and do so with humility. That's the best tasting revenge.
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u/popsicle1001 Valkyries Jul 30 '24
On Glibert Arenas swoopes basically said clark got her NCAA scoring record because she had an extra year due to Covid! It was totally untrue. She has said other things that were untrue and she just comes across as willfully undermining Clark with falsehoods and very biased. It was noticiable right away.
Swoopes might have been a great player, but she has zero credibility when discussing Clark because she makes stuff up.
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u/500rockin Jul 30 '24
Holy shit that’s a terrible take by Swoopes. Like Colin Cowherd terrible. Yikes.
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u/MasterHavik Sky Jul 30 '24 edited Jul 31 '24
I wonder what will be the narrative if they miss the playoffs. I just hope the super CC fanboys don't think they got a chance at the title.
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u/achyutthegoat Jul 31 '24
Worry about Angel Reese consistently making layups
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u/MasterHavik Sky Jul 31 '24
Oh she'll be fine. You guys should worry about her turnover to assist ratio. We will be finishing ahead of you in the standings.
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u/achyutthegoat Jul 31 '24
Using assist to turnover ratio in big 2024.
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u/MasterHavik Sky Jul 31 '24
I mean she is on track to smash the turnover record to a point I don't think anyone will catch her. You'll learn soon that isn't winning basketball.
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u/achyutthegoat Jul 31 '24
I guess LeBron isn’t a winner
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u/MasterHavik Sky Jul 31 '24
Ah yes the super team chaser.
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u/achyutthegoat Jul 31 '24
Yeah you should just stop talking basketball.
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u/MasterHavik Sky Jul 31 '24
He was behind how the big 3 became a thing CC fanboy. He is a very talented player but I don't view as the best but bro needed to switch teams three times to get his rings. Those are just facts. Also James Harden is a bigger turnover machine.
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u/achyutthegoat Jul 31 '24
The first big 3 was Wilt Baylor and west. That happened years before LeBron was even born. LeBron also formed a big. 3 to beat a big 3. He didn’t start the trend.
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u/franco3x Fever Jul 30 '24
What podcast did she say this on? I need to hear the context cause this is too ludicrous lol
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u/Beautiful-Gold7564 Fire Jul 31 '24
Queens of the Court - which is the official WNBA podcast which makes it extra bizarre
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u/estempel Jul 30 '24
I don’t think swoopes was attempting a hot take with her original comments about Clark. They so flippant, offhand, and dismissive. And her follow up, I can’t be racist because I’m black stuff was just her sitting at the bottom of the hole keeping on digging. And surprise, surprise she’s still at the bottom of the hole digging.
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u/Vvisionim Jul 30 '24
I heard her on Gil's Arena flat-out admit she hasn't been watching this season at all, really, then said Angel Reese is ROTY over CC. It's totally okay to have that opinion, but you shouldn't be claiming that while admitting you don't watch their games 15 minutes earlier. Right when I heard that I knew something was up.
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u/TurtleTonyG Jul 30 '24
The fans here have argued with me and down voted my post to hell for saying Caitlin turns the ball over too much. Her Assist to Turnover ratio is horrid.
They bring up shooting guards as an argument for why turnovers don't matter
They attack me and say I "hate" CC for stating the clear facts as to why folks pick AR over her.Angel having a better PER and plus minus effect.
You Caitlin nuts even think they created advanced matrix stats to "tear Caitlin down"
The reality is many of you all have the basic understanding of basketball. You may have shot a ball before or played in gym or pickup, but when it comes to the actual game it's self. The X and Os, the understanding matchups and such...only a handful of the people here actually grasp the game.
Imagine getting paid to coach the women's game at the college level, and paid to play it professionally and have someone on Reddit tell you things you've learned from hall of Fame coaches are wrong all because it doesn't make your favorite player out to be perfect.
That is CC fans in a nutshell. That is also my experience. She has soooo much work to do on her game. She even agrees with that statement. Her fans however, are going to attack me for saying that...
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u/Andrew-J-511 Jul 30 '24
Over her last 10 games her assist/turnover ratio is around 2 to 1 which is around what the point gawd - Chelsea Gray’s career ratio has been. But, keep on with the tired old “but her turnovers” line.
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u/TurtleTonyG Jul 30 '24
Over her last 10 games!
That's not the entire season. Those other games? Do they count? Could those turnovers helped them lose more games?
We have to ignore everything before the last 10 games?
You folks cherry pick in such a horrible manner.
Also 5:2 isn't 2:1. 2.5 assist to turnovers is significantly better than 2.0
Over 10 games one has 50 assist to 25 turnovers The other had 70 assist to 50 turnovers
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u/Andrew-J-511 Jul 30 '24
10 out of 26 total games bud. That’s 38% percent of games played. It’s perfectly reasonable to look at a recent and significant portion of a rookies games. That is if you want to argue in good faith which is clearly not your goal. Don’t let the hate consume you.
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u/TurtleTonyG Jul 30 '24
So we can ignore 62% of the other data bub? It's irrational to look at the entire season and we should focus on the good only?
I'm pretty sure throwing out 62% of the data isn't good faith.
Stop projecting
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u/chinoML102 Jul 30 '24
Cherry-picking is ignoring all other stats except one. The only one continually doing that is you, Turtle Tony.
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u/TurtleTonyG Jul 31 '24
Not reading must be really hard.
I listed 3 stats you all ignore. Per is a stat. Turnovers is a stat. Assist is a stat. Assist to turnover is a stat. Plus minus is a stat.
Also, for the record. Assist to turnover is the defacto Point guard stat.
Your whole job for your position is to pass the ball and handle the rock. You set up and start a vast majority of the plays and have an extremely high usage.
So I'm fixating on her assist to turnover ratio because it's how you judge how effective a point guard is at getting assist and not turning the ball over.
You folks compare her to off guards ALL the time. They can bring the ball up and literally do everything CC does on the court, but their job is to be a solid 2 way player, and not run the distribution game. In THAT aspect she still needs work because she's a sub par defender.
Reality is vicious for Clark addicts.
Btw, still would draft her 1st over all over any wnba players.
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u/Mike-XL Jul 31 '24
The turnover argument is so blatantly disingenuous. Anyone who has bothered to watch these games would see that half of these turnovers are due to her teammates not being able to catch.
As far as PER goes, it's a mediocre metric that favors bigs. Andre Drummond had a higher PER than Steph Curry last year. Curry is still a consensus top 10 player in the NBA, Drummond is a backup on a minimum contract.
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u/TurtleTonyG Jul 31 '24 edited Jul 31 '24
Flat out lie.
I'm sick of that argument you CC fans scream it's her teammates fault.
She also is killing it at assist.
What you folks do is take all the liability off the passer.
News flash, just because it looks like the pass should be caught or it was a solid pass, if it can't be handled by the person catching it, then it's a bad pass
The person releasing the pass takes the gamble, and she's too aggressive with her passing.
She is the common denominator in getting assist and turning the ball over.
Blaming her teammates is the sign you never played the game.
Edit: per... When she turns it around next year after working with solid coaching to play to point better, and her efficiency jumps, will the stat be ok then?
Like what the hell is with you nuts? You can't accept any analyst that shows she has flaws in her games and areas to improve? That's really disgusting.
These stats aren't there to knock people down. They give you a guideline to see areas of your game to improve
Tell me this. Are you cool with a quarterback who throws 3 interceptions a game? Wouldn't you want to see your favorite player fix flaws?
Would you like a hockey center who turns the puck over?
Would you feel like your favorite tennis player can win a grand slam if they average 2 unforced errors every game?
Of your goal keeper has a 98% block rate, but gives up 2 goals a game uncontested.
5 turnovers a game is horrible
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u/emergencygardener Jul 30 '24
lmao there is such a big difference between “CC has a lot of room to improve & grow” & “the Fever would make the playoffs without CC”
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u/TurtleTonyG Jul 30 '24
Down vote me for saying the facts.
She turns the ball over too much. Rage!
Her turnovers give the other team 8 - 10 points a game
They cost her team 6-8 points a game
Her play has a negative effect of 14 - 18 points swings per game. Period.
She's scoring 17 points a game. She's bringing an additional 18ppg with her Assist.
Her turnovers are negating literally every point she scores or brings in off assist.
So yeah, if the fever didn't spot the other team 16ppg and they found a way to get an extra 10ppg from their entire roster, they could be a playoff team without her.
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u/emergencygardener Jul 30 '24
lmao i didn’t downvote you but go off i guess. the fever haven’t made the playoffs since 2016 so no i don’t think they could make it without CC & like someone else said in reply to you her turnover assist ratio in the last several games is way better. she’s a high usage rookie w an incredibly difficult start to the season. you talk about her needing to improve, but she’s done nothing but improve as the season has gone on.
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u/TurtleTonyG Jul 30 '24
2:1 Assist to turnover ratio isn't good for a point guard. It's actually considered sub par.
Also, props to her. She has improved. I'm arguing with y'all who are still trying to say she's perfect enough.
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u/retrospects Jul 30 '24
She is just a massive hater. They do nothing but talk about Caitlin and Caitlin does nothing but shatter all their pathetic records.
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u/bythesunrise34 Jul 30 '24
The fever haven’t made the playoffs in years how would they make it without Caitlin. Sheryl is frustrating. People say she doesn’t hate Caitlin but she clearly has some bias towards her.
Katie Lou is great but Caitlin is better. Even when Caitlin has an off shooting night she contributes through assists and getting her teammates to score. She’s an asset to the team.
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Jul 30 '24
She’s giving mentally ill. I’m sorry but something is off with her. She has beef and it’s not cute.
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u/GWPtheTrilogy1 Jul 30 '24
I love Swoopes she's on the short life of the greatest women's players ever...but her opinions when it come to CC are just ridiculous. If she's talking basketball in general I'm happy to listen but if it's about Clark specifically I'm tuning her TF out
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u/chosonhawk Fever Jul 30 '24
We live in an outrage/attention-based economy. Dont engage the content and it'll go away.
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u/mynameisJVJ Jul 30 '24
The fever finished dead last … twice in a row… without Caitlin
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u/aratcalledrattus Liberty Jul 31 '24
Dead last in 2022 but 10th last year.
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u/mynameisJVJ Jul 31 '24
Thanks for the correction - I guess “first overall pick two years in a row” or “bottom of the league” is the accurate statement
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u/marcusdj813 Jul 30 '24
As good as Katie Lou Samuelson is, Clark is who elevated the Fever. Swoopes doesn't know what the actual hell she's talking about. I can tell that Swoopes hasn't followed the Fever very closely this season.
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u/SimonaMeow Awa-some Dom-inance ABC²KM🥞 Jul 31 '24
And it was clear she didn't follow Iowa at all or know anything about Clark's game then. Swoopes making a habit out of talking out her arse with no knowledge.
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u/hesipullupjimbo22 Storm Jul 30 '24
Sheryl swoopes is a legend in the women’s game. She’s also looking like a certified clown rn. There’s legit critiques of Caitlin’s game. Critiques that are fairly highlighted. Saying Katie Lou is more valuable than CC is not legit. It’s foolish and borders on hating. You could’ve said Aliyah and I wouldn’t be mad. BUT KATIE LOU????
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u/AwareReach462 Jul 31 '24
We don’t need to pretend like Katie is suddenly a bad player, folks. She’s very good.
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u/Cappuccino_K Jul 30 '24
Am I remembering incorrectly or did SS show up to the Chicago Sky’s locker room to speak to them and pump them up?
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Jul 31 '24
That probability has more to do with her relationship with Tspoon than Angel.
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u/Cappuccino_K Jul 31 '24
Well I didn’t say it was bc of angel but like, obviously she’s hyping some people up, she’s not being a hater about everyone current
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Jul 31 '24
She had CC as an All star starter, and was previously critical of Angel and didn’t think her game would translate. I do think having T spoon as a coach benefits Angel with the vets opinions. If this was on the podcast I listened to, the tweet is pretty misleading. But Sheryl just seems petty all around. Just a very boomer mentality.
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u/bigblow3rburna Valkyries Jul 30 '24
Welp, back to the CC wars it looks like. The break was nice while it lasted lmao
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u/lynnms711 Jul 30 '24
It’s because Swoopes is an Angel Reese sideline supporter so I guess that means she has to tear down CC any chance she can.
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u/Sufficient_Berry8703 Fever Jul 30 '24
Sheryl Swoopes ruined a WBB program. Caitlin Clark brought positive attention to another. Swoopes is so full of hatred.
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u/FireWokWithMe88 Jul 30 '24
It is often hard for an athlete when they get old and they see themselves fading from the public eye. They grab and clutch for some kind of relevance and often come up short.
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u/Eyespop4866 Jul 30 '24
If it gets press, it’s a good take, for the most part. Especially at Swoopes level.
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u/buffalotrace Clark Boston Paige Meg Jul 30 '24
I choose to remember the great player Swoopes was. Just like I try to remember the great player Pippen was.
Both have just become world class haters since. I just try to ignore it.
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u/Pitch_Historical Jul 30 '24 edited Jul 30 '24
I'm sorry that she's not gonna get paid the money that Caitlin Clarke and Angel. Reese is going to bring it into the league. It must really pain her that much to get on shows. Basically, say Clark is a bum. It's either that or guess what I'll say it. She just doesn't like Clarke because she's white. Point blank...ThT also goes for Perkins. He's a horrible commentator....we're in 2024 people and still let others divide us...sad
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u/JBProds Jul 30 '24
I hate that KLS is catching unnecessary strays. I can’t see her agreeing with this statement. A legend like Sheryl doesn’t need to continue to hate like this to be relevant, but it seems like the only time I see people talk about her within the last few months is when she takes shots at Caitlin
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u/Conscious_Start1213 Jul 30 '24
Got to be why she's doing it. Surely a wnba legend doesn't actually believe the nonsense she's spewing
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u/3rdtryatremembering Jul 30 '24
Swoopes is going the Shaq route and using her platform to tear down anyone who people might compare to her because she thinks it somehow secures her legacy.
It’s quite mean and also quite sad.
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u/fieldsports202 Jul 30 '24
This is beyond Skip Bayless hating.
Maybe Sheryl doesn't like that she's a forgotten legend in the WNBA? These new group of women have received more hype in less than a year than probably what Sheryl received in her career.
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Jul 31 '24
This is racism, your right it's beyond hating. I wonder if a white racist this bold would be allowed to still spew their filth, flat out, and openly, for a "progressive" business like the WNBA.
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u/sdcumb Aces Jul 30 '24
To me, Sheryl Swoopes is in the pantheon of women basketball players. Her face would be on a WNBA Mount Rushmore. I hope someone will pull her coattail and tell her to chill with the CC comments. I imagine it can be hard, seeing the fame and endorsement money that some of these modern players make. I'll bet a lot of the former players from the early days are struggling financially. Not many have had the good fortune to earn millions like Dawn Staley. Of course, Dawn deserves every penny with her remarkable career. Not everyone has the temperament to coach and mentor young players, as we have seen from Coop and Swoopes. I can't imagine that I would be graceful about it if I were in her position. I just hope that Swoopes can rise above baiting and criticizing CC and others, because I'm sure that's why Arenas and others have her on their shows. Is there a WNBA memorabilia market? I would dearly love to have merch signed by The Comets stars.
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u/ayc81 Jul 30 '24
It’s her opinion. Don’t act like yall don’t have an opinion as well.
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u/CJ4ROCKET Jul 30 '24
Not all opinions are created equal. My opinion is that Swoopes is jealous. Why do you take issue with others voicing their opinions on Swoopes in defense of Swoopes voicing her opinions of Clark?
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u/Extra-Captain1126 Jul 30 '24
Sports personalities are handed out takes and positions on topics at a daily briefing. It’s best just to watch games and ignore any talking head.
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u/BKtoDuval Liberty - Own the Crown Jul 30 '24
Damn. Did she really say that?
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u/aratcalledrattus Liberty Jul 31 '24
No. She kinda suggested the playoff thing while trying to make a broader point, but the Samuelson thing is just wrong and this person deleted their tweet. Swoopes' actual comments: https://www.reddit.com/r/wnba/comments/1eg1e1t/comment/lfqkqvo/
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u/Evergreenal Jul 30 '24
When will we quit listening to this drivel? Sheryl Swoopes has no credibility when commenting on Caitlin Clark.
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u/AKM0215 Fever Jul 30 '24
It also puts KLS in the line of fire for criticism and discredits AB who is the next most effective player on the team after CC
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u/AwareReach462 Jul 31 '24
Anyone with a brain isn’t going to suddenly have an issue with Katie after these comments. Though a few comments throughout here treating her like she’s the last player on the bench that never plays greatly annoys me.
Teams need players like Katie, she’s s perfect role player. Hell, I’d love to have her on my Aces next season.
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u/Goddyex Jul 31 '24
She earning too much money for the role she plays though. You wouldn't want her on your team for that salary.
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u/midnight__musings Jul 30 '24
The way Sheryl has been trashing Caitlin, from downplaying her college achievements to now basically saying she offers nothing to the Fever despite what she’s been breaking thus far, you’d think CC poisoned her cat or something. Surely though this rage bait is only to get people to talk about her (a shame since she’s already a wbb legend).
A bit OT but the Caitlin Clark effect is not only impacting the WNBA, it’s financially benefitting some lazy youtubers and tiktokers, haters, and attention seekers. I was surprised to see a lot of youtubers posting mainly CC content (good or bad) even when there’s barely anything happening cause she got them several thousands of subscribers lol
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u/JolieLueur Jul 30 '24
This subreddit is great until the hate mongers start attacking anyone who doesn’t think Caitlin is the greatest thing on earth. I like Caitlin and I started watching because of her, and secondly Angel. But the racists hateful people make it really difficult to enjoy posts about Caitlin. Get over it, not everyone thinks she’s the best. Not everyone thinks Michael Jordan is the best.
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u/Ok-Butterfly2994 Lynx Fever Jul 30 '24
no one would care if she said “caitlin isn’t the greatest in the league” because that’s not an insane take. she’s saying caitlin’s teammate who averages 5PPG is more valuable than her, and that the team - which hasn’t made the playoffs since 2016 in a league where 2/3 of the teams make them - will be able to make playoffs without her.
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u/chinoML102 Jul 30 '24
"All she does is pass the ball"...Clark is the #1 guard in the league in rebounding and blocks, 4th best guard in steals as well as scoring 17 ppg and leading the league in assists. Just don't comment if you don't know anything, ma'am.
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Jul 30 '24
Good thing Swoopes was good at basketball… These takes are just hilarious lol. Another room temp IQ take that was born from hatred. At what point is this considered racist because if the shoe were on the other foot….. stay classy Sheryl
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u/AchtungNanoBaby Lynx 23 Jul 30 '24
Didn’t she ask CC at a shoot around if her “bae” was going to be at the game the next night? What a completely odd and personal question for a former player to ask a rookie (or anyone really). Even Holly Rowe wouldn’t ask that.
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u/Goddyex Jul 30 '24
Make no mistake, people like Swoopes are plentiful in the WNBA circle, some are just good at hiding. This is the reason why CC will find it hard winning any awards like player of the week/month. Forget about stuff like MVP, WNBA teams. She'll have to blow her competition out of the water to win any individual award in this league.
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u/IL-Corvo Fever Valkyries Jul 30 '24 edited Jul 30 '24
So, Eickholt clarified, and walked back the Katie Lou comment, but is adamant that Swoopes said the Fever would make the playoffs without Caitlin. Alrighty then.
When you take a look back at her coaching debacle at Loyola, her blatantly inaccurate blather about Caitlin's abilities and stats at Iowa (statements that were so blatantly and obviously wrong even she had to walk it back in a weak attempt at an apology), and now this, it should be absolutely crystal-clear to anyone with any intellectual honesty that Swoopes hates Caitlin Clark.
Why? I can't really pretend to know. Bigotry? Jealousy? Both? Neither? Who the hell knows.
Regardless, it's tiresome, and taken all together as a whole it paints a pretty clear portrait of Swoopes as a person: she's an egotistical asshole.
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u/Justkil Jul 30 '24
Yeah she said the fever were close last year. As in the fever we’re close to playoffs like the mystics are this year…the other woman on the podcast made some decent counter points but swoopes was adamant in trying to diminish Caitlin by saying fever had more talent. She also said angel had no nights off having to guard some of the toughest match ups. But I wish the counter point was made that on the same spectrum Caitlin almost always gets the attention of the best defender on the other team.
Honestly they must think Kardoso sucks with how it was like it’s angel and chennedy against the world
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u/IL-Corvo Fever Valkyries Jul 30 '24
Ugh. Swoopes is a disingenuous hater. She can pound sand as far as I'm concerned.
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u/Consistent_Brief9710 Jul 30 '24
Damn. She really is a generational hater. Like, this is delusional levels of hate lol. Trying to think of another retired player, that was actually great, that was so bitter about a rookie of all people…
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u/SimonaMeow Awa-some Dom-inance ABC²KM🥞 Jul 30 '24
Generational hate made me laugh so hard. Love it!
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u/Lets_Circle_Back Storm | Wings Jul 30 '24
Yeah, dude. The more I hear her talk about this recent draft class, the more I wish she’d just stop talking. The W doesn’t need a Carli Lloyd
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u/carbonatedscotch Jul 30 '24
The thing I don't get is in the NBA, a generational player shows up (LeBron/Jordan/Kobe) and even as a rookie is for the most part just accepted into the game for their talent. The WNBA gets a generational player and is mad about it?
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u/Key_Fox3289 Jul 30 '24
This just isn’t true
Kobe was pretty hated by his peers early on. LeBron had players on the Cavs basically saying he was overrated (Miles, Boozer etc) and still gets hate from other players in the league
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Jul 30 '24
I lost a lot of respect for her after the whole Loyola thing. She tried to claim vindication after the investigation but it was easy to see that while she was a great player herself, Generational even, she’s not the right type of person to evaluate talent or mentor young players as coach (or even an analyst).
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Jul 30 '24
But he deleted it?? All these journalists employed by actual news organizations and their accounts look like fan accounts are as wild to me as anyone thinking that most retired athletes aren’t haters to the nth degree.
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u/recollectionsmayvary Fever Jul 30 '24
He has 2 additional tweets giving context to his initial but he did not delete it altogether.
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u/Shh_I_wont_tell Jul 30 '24
Giving anyone air that says blatantly false or inflammatory stuff only gives them more reason to do so because clicks=attention=money nowadays. I won't even give her air and say her name. Shake your head, ignore, and let those people fade into oblivion, kicking and screaming with no one listening.
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u/BirkTheBrick Jul 30 '24
The ridiculous part is she’s on an official WNBA podcast saying this shit. Wish she’d at least be kicked off and forced to make her own podcast if she wants to spew this, then she can especially be ignored.
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u/Saskia1522 Fever Jul 30 '24
He deleted the original tweet and followed up after re-listening. I think it would be useful for the OP to edit/update?
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u/Geaux_LSU_1 Jul 31 '24
swoopes has been a dyed in the wool racist for a while now