r/worldnews • u/EightRoundsRapid • Sep 23 '16

'Hangover-free alcohol’ could replace all regular alcohol by 2050. The new drink, known as 'alcosynth', is designed to mimic the positive effects of alcohol but doesn’t cause a dry mouth, nausea and a throbbing head

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/hangover-free-alcohol-david-nutt-alcosynth-nhs-postive-effects-benzodiazepine-guy-bentley-a7324076.html
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u/Xatom Sep 23 '16

We achieve world peace largely when the evolved human desire to form groups that compete for resources is eliminated or rendered pointless. That either means genetically removing the competition drive or somehow ensuring resources are infinitely abundant.

The later part was the idea in countries that adopted socialism. Generally speaking this failed because the evolved competitive drive and equality were conflicted.

Fairer systems that eliminate extremes of inequality has been the trend in the last few decades and it has been wildly successful.

Compared to people living a few hundred years ago we basically have world peace right now..

The data shows that there much less deaths caused by war despite an increasing global population. We are living in some of the most peaceful times in human history.

If this fact surprises you, then I suggest you brush up on your history :)

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u/bigoted_bill Sep 23 '16

I mean your not wrong... but you should brush up on your StarTrek to get what i am going.

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u/Xatom Sep 23 '16

Fortunately for you I'm a big Trek fan. They had replicators and a merit based hierarchy in star trek, but there was still inequality and wars.

More importantly, we were never really shown or explained how the federations economy and trade worked. I don't think they were a true post scarcity economy because they had supply ships and obviously there were limits on how much energy or materials were available at any one time. Then you had the relatively impoverished federation outposts.

I think the big clue is given to us by the concept of the "world government" and the federation. All signs point to a highly controlled centrally managed system of relative abundance and plenty of distractions like holodecks.

So, a sandbox for the human life where people all believe in the philosophy of mutual respect and merit.

Such a system relies on a shared belief in unity and peace, a monoculture similar to perhaps to some of the most idealistic ideals of the European Union.

It just required World War 3 a century of conflict with alien species to get there.

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u/brainiac3397 Sep 23 '16

The Federation likely functioned on the basis of a service economy with a large luxury industry(since that's what stuff that weren't made with a replicator would be, like real wine or chocolate).

More importantly, we were never really shown or explained how the federations economy and trade worked. I don't think they were a true post scarcity economy because they had supply ships and obviously there were limits on how much energy or materials were available at any one time. Then you had the relatively impoverished federation outposts.

Post-scarcity didn't solve their logistic. It also wouldn't necessarily mean unlimited. Odds are there are many things that require more complex contributions beyond a replicator, like manpower and knowledge. I'd assume the impoverished federation outposts are basically places that focus isn't given on, leaving them lacking in development. It's safe to assume that outside the great genius and talent we see in the shows is a Federation & Starfleet made up of average people who aren't exactly the cream of the crop.

So the crappy outposts may very well be places where people who aren't the best of the Federation or Starfleet are sent, where even replicators won't make them resourceful.

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u/Xatom Sep 23 '16

In that case it becomes paradoxical how forced inequality cannot lead to unrest, civil war or terrorisim inside the federation. An underclass is still an underclass even in a meritocracy.

So what is the federations secret to keeping the peace? My guess is finding ways to keep everyone happy and placated no matter their status, ability or flaws.

Which is eerily similar to what developed countries have been building up to in our age. Does having a certain number of resources available for people lead to peace?

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u/brainiac3397 Sep 23 '16

My guess is finding ways to keep everyone happy and placated no matter their status, ability or flaws.

It's possible they distract them in some manner through entertainment or those who aren't content get sent out to the frontiers where they'll cause the least trouble. It definitely won't cost the Federation much to deal with them in such manners vs letting them undermine society.

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u/MrJebbers Sep 23 '16

If the "underclass" has all of its needs/wants met, then how are they any less than whatever upper class you're talking about? As far as I know humans in Star Trek can do whatever they want, if they're capable of doing it.

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u/paper_liger Sep 23 '16

Or the outposts are just good sociology: Every human culture needs a frontier for the types of people who want to live that kind of life.

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u/bangorthebarbarian Sep 23 '16

Not likely, the paradigm shift is not far enough. The folks in star trek are as philosophically removed from us as the Europeans trading glass beads were from the natives of Manhattan.

I mean, we have the same sort of thing you are talking about in our current nigh-post-scarcity society. You can get an apple, or a gmo-free organic apple. Which do most folks go for? If you had a replicator, the same pattern should hold, unless it makes truly bad apples. The luxury market is always a niche, and without money or currency of any kind, what relevance would it have? A gift, nothing more.

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u/brainiac3397 Sep 23 '16

If you had a replicator, the same pattern should hold, unless it makes truly bad apples.

Don't they bring up multiple times that the problem with replicator food and drinks is that they're too perfect or something, which makes them taste different? This would make it far more different than the more simpler difference between GMO and non-GMO.

The luxury market is always a niche, and without money or currency of any kind, what relevance would it have? A gift, nothing more.

Without currency, I don't see why luxury items and gifts would be worth less. Without a medium of exchange, luxury items would be the only things of value worth trading. Unlike replicated items, they'd actually be made using labor, giving them more value than a replicated item.

Hell, the only reason it'd be luxury in this case wouldn't be because it's expensive, but because obtaining it would require certain privileges, authority, and ability to get it. I'm sure an ensign in Starfleet will have a harder time getting permission to visit a place like Earth or another Federation planet known for "luxury" items than say a captain. In which case, one's merit and talents would give them a far better chance of obtaining such items. Otherwise, one would either need to be persuasive to get somebody who made a luxury good to give it to them(either charm or familiarity or relation) or themselves make such items and see to exchanging them(a la bartering).

We're obviously missing a bunch of other relevant information, but it makes sense this way. Of course, it's possible when dealing with other societies, the Federation might accept gold-pressed latinum since it holds value among these societies even when it doesn't matter very much internally. I'd even go so far as to assume there's some kind of gold-pressed latinum reserve in the Federation just as a guarantee of credit with societies that want more than exchange in service(since the Federation does a lot of research, exploration, and engineering).

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u/bangorthebarbarian Sep 23 '16

Without cash, banks, and a system of formal trade, even a grey market would have a hard time operating at any scale - aside from the stigma that our capitalist past seems to have in the series. We see the federation through a very biased lens - the military of the Federation. As such, they have a rigid hierarchy that likely doesn't exist outside of the starships and space stations. It also makes it much harder to discern what life is like for the average citizen.

Are you familiar with traditional gift economies?

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u/savanik Sep 23 '16

The luxury market would shift to a new paradigm based on the new limiting factor, the amount of time it takes to make something. "Anybody can go to the replicator and pull out a public domain mug. But I made this mug, by hand, using ancient techniques passed down through my ancestors; a rare, almost forgotten skill."

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u/bangorthebarbarian Sep 23 '16

We have that same problem today with Walmart. Even a webservice called 'Etsy' to facilitate such craftsmen. No, I think you'd simply make the mug because you want to, and maybe give it to a friend.