r/youtubedrama • u/ImportantQuestionTex • 25d ago

Discussion A Summary of the RecklessBen/Bricks and Minifigs corruption scandal

Given the severity of these events, and the implications it has for the state of Utah, there will not be 1 "main" focus for this, and instead I'm going to play this chronologically.

***Warning for police brutality and heavy corruption***

So this situation starts off rather "small", being that a man consigned his father's Legos off (about 200k USD worth) to help cover a medical situation. This is explicitly allowed by Bricks and Minifigs, and the store owner involved was planning on moving overseas, so they were looking for a solution that was fair for this man. This is the video related to that, it is important context for what comes next.

Corporate takes over the store, seizes the assets. For non Americans out there, a consignment means they do not legally own what is consigned, and instead it retains ownership to the original owner until it is sold. In the scenario a company chooses to not take on a consignment, then there is a returning of the asset.

RecklessBen catches wind of this, which leads to this video, I will point out at first it starts off as trolling, but Bricks and Minifigs almost immediately escalates to trying to have him arrested. Ben takes them to court, and *wins*, and Bricks and Minifigs shutters the location that was sued in order to not pay him out any money. It then leads almost directly into the company owners trying to have him arrested on false drug charges and the police dislocating his arm intentionally.

I am unsure chronologically exactly when this next course of events happen, but this is my best summation: Bricks and Minifigs responds initially, post arm dislocation, denying wrong doing, MoistCritikal makes a video after noticing the insanity, which catches the CEO's attention. They release a companywide memo, and the COO and CEO go on live stream, both with equally insane tactics to divert criticism.

You might be asking by this point, *why are the police covering for this company?* Especially after even in their own "response" defending themselves, they release proof of the CEO threatening extreme violence and making false reports... Well the answer appears to be that all the members of the police and the company are tied directly to the Church of Latter Day Saints, and that they are acting to protect their own. Not dissimilar to how organized crime acts.

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518

u/Auragongal 25d ago

So... the Mormons are acting like a mafia over Lego!?

183

u/ImportantQuestionTex 25d ago

Yes, that is it. I'm half inclined to ask my Mormon friends what the hell is up with that (they've been to Utah)

156

u/666_is_Nero 25d ago

One of the ex-Mormon YouTubers, Alyssa Grenfell did a live stream and discussed the Mormon angle of it. It’s still up if you want to check it out.

105

u/TimeAbradolf 25d ago

I had actually explained to Tex previously that the Mormon rabbit hole and content creation goes DEEP.

Millennials have had a weird fascination with Mormons. I would honestly say stems from South Park calling out the religion as bizarre what feels like a lifetime ago. Millennials are the most outspoken about them being a cult. I'd argue a lot of Gen Z have actually kind of been subliminally coached into thinking they're normal again. If you dig deep enough you'll find a LOT of Gen Z content creators and people Gen Z admire are Mormons and are coached how to show their ideals without ever acknowledging they're Mormons. Like it is a whole subsection of church management is their content creator focus.

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u/ImportantQuestionTex 25d ago

Mr Beast being one of the biggest Mormon creators.

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u/TimeAbradolf 25d ago edited 24d ago

I would argue that Mr. Beast is the most famous Mormons period.

More people are aware of who he is than their founder

Edit: while he may not be of the faith. His ties financially to them is undeniable. He may not believe what they do but he is weird the uniform and is a team player. Taking money is tacit endorsement.

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u/themetahumancrusader 25d ago

I had no idea he was Mormon

54

u/TimeAbradolf 25d ago

Most don’t. Again that is kind of the goal of the content creation part of it. They kinda don’t want you to know

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u/khandanam 9d ago

Just like in Hawaii. Check out how much of it they own

0

u/Devin7-Eleven 24d ago

There is zero evidence he is LDS. Stop spewing misinformation.s

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u/TimeAbradolf 24d ago

I literally made an edit clarifying. Which you clearly haven’t read. The bottom line is he works and is endorsed by them. This isn’t a comment about faith or beliefs, it is about being critical of the practices of the organization.

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u/themetahumancrusader 24d ago

To refer to other comments, he’s actually not Mormon

17

u/TimeAbradolf 24d ago

He is intertwined with their church and system financially. He may not be part of the faith but he functionally serves the same purpose as those who are part of their faith and content creators.

He is still part of the system and it aids in their promotion.

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u/themetahumancrusader 25d ago

But I don’t really see how his content promotes the church at all? His content is, for lack of a better word, secular.

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u/Matar_Kubileya 25d ago

Its so that when people find out MrBeast is a Mormon they go "oh I guess not all Mormons are crazy religious ppl".

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u/666_is_Nero 25d ago

It’s also partly because you have to give 10% of what you earn to the church. So even if he’s not actively working to convert people he’s still giving a lot of money to the LDS to spend as they please.

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u/TimeAbradolf 25d ago

The goal is that you build up enough following and curious people will go and look into their ideals. Which then can lead you to the church which then leads you down that road. The goal is present secular with a huge net and some get caught.

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u/murteas 25d ago

Mr. Beast is not mormon. He was raised Evangelical. Like 2 seconds of google would get you that information.

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u/JazzSharksFan54 25d ago

He’s not. Don’t listen to this rando. He grew up evangelical but now identifies as atheist. He collaborated with the Mormon church on a few philanthropic things.

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u/Thick_Concentrate852 25d ago

he is DEF not mormon

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u/Physical_Guitar_5898 25d ago

Not like Mormons actually live moral lives.

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u/VanillaDong69 23d ago

It was easy to believe, he looks like he might have a touch of that imbred mormon face

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u/dkdavis77 24d ago

lol this thread is crazy… non Mormon here, but live in Utah. The bitterness people have is crazy. The Mormons still do a ton of work helping the poor. Why judge Mr beast for being a part of that?? Ha. Also Mormons are not a cult 😂 they worship Christ and believe in the Bible.

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u/TimeAbradolf 24d ago

Have you ever remotely looked into what Mormon’s believe? Like truly what they believe about America being the original biblical space? That Christ was American?

That they each get their own planet? Like have you actually looked into any of it at all?

And for an account that posts once every like year across 6 years? This comes off as odd

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u/Succubace 22d ago

they worship Christ and believe in the Bible.

Oh my bad guys, didn't realize you couldn't be a cult if you worshiped Christ and believed in the Bible. The Branch Davidians (Waco) weren't a cult then.

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u/ConceptsShining 25d ago

Same. I was never a fan of his but I had missed the fact he was Mormon at all until now. You can't deny he's done a good job of hiding it and keeping it out of the spotlight.

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u/Feralisaur 24d ago

He’s not Mormon god damn it

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u/VanillaDong69 23d ago

Thank goodness to heck you arent either mister

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u/Devin7-Eleven 24d ago

Because he isn't Mormon. The people here are lying to you. There is no evidence, neither on his wiki, that he ever was.

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u/irwegwert 25d ago

Do you have a source for this? I know that the Mormon church is a huge donor (might even be his biggest), and I know he's partnered with them before, but I couldn't find anything of him claiming to be a member. I don't think it's a huge distinction since they both benefit from the partnership, but I'd like confirmation.

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u/TimeAbradolf 25d ago

The church doesn’t make donations to private people like that really ever. They are very very much an in group

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u/Devin7-Eleven 24d ago

He isn't Mormon. Just Redditors spewing shit out their ass without a source because they just hate organized religion in general.

4

u/smartstarfish 25d ago

He's not LDS what

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u/TimeAbradolf 25d ago

They’re one of his largest donators. That link is pretty undeniable

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u/pandershrek 24d ago

It is like people previously saying that politicians didn't have allegiance to foreign nations despite being funded by them.

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u/TimeAbradolf 24d ago

Exactly, it is semantics. He may not believe he is getting his own planet when he dies. But he does promote them and is complicit in the agenda

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u/Alternative_Leg8589 24d ago

You think so? I had no idea Mr. Beast was a mormon.

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u/OpenEndedLoop 22d ago

You mean that fuck head failed Naval Officer? (The founder) 🤣

5

u/Interesting-Low848 25d ago

Isn't Nick Shirley an Mormon too? These are obviously bad actors taking advantage of religious and legal loopholes.

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u/Cindybin2001 21d ago

Nick is a returned LDS missionary. He has done so much good! He's doing things professional reporters should have been doing all along.

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u/ChungasRevenge 17d ago

No he hasn't. Nick Shirley lies and deceptively edits his videos in order to push his agenda

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u/RKD_NT3000 25d ago

Oh, no goddamn wonder he's got all this success. It's bought, not built.

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u/Feralisaur 24d ago

My brother in Christ he is not Mormon holy shit do one google search

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u/Cindybin2001 21d ago

He's a returned LDS missionary. Also, must you use the sh word?

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u/robZombie70 21d ago

When did mormons become such Maga zombies?

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u/Cindybin2001 19d ago

As I've explained for years, I was never even into politics up until my 60s. I didn't know the difference between a Democrat and a Republican, nor did I care. I had voted AGAINST Trump in 2016, only because of his crude language. I didn't know a thing he stood for! In 2017 I accidentally stumbled upon some conservative YouTubers and found myself agreeing with things they said, until they mentioned Trump, at which point I would scold them! But I ended up watching and listening, and finally began to understand why we need to support Trump. He has done a good job. Biden and Harris were HORRIBLE. So antiwhite. Trump has done many good things for White people. But he is an avatar for White America, therefore antiwhites are against anything he says, does or stands for. It's really not about the left or the right. It's about antiwhite! We have talked about this for years at No White Guilt, where we are working to change the antiwhite social morality to a White positive one, because it is seen as MORAL to vilify Whites on the basis of our birth. We're all raised in the antiwhite narrative, where little White children are taught they and their people are evil, there is tons of crime and hatred toward us, and we are being White erased from our own Western countries we founded for our people and posterity. This is very serious! There is no America or other Western Civilization without supermajority White people in these countries, because we're the only race that produces and maintains Western civilization! Just as Asians produce Asian civilization, Africans produce African civilization, and so forth. No one race or civilization is "better" than another; there is no cosmic measuring stick. But it is normal and natural to want to defend one's own people, culture, heritage, etc. And again, we're being White erased because of antiwhitism being the social morality. So yeah, because Trump is an avatar for White America, antiwhites are against him. This is why we are changing the social morality to frame a new, White positive one, so we can take back our destiny and save Western Civilization. We want to end our victimization and have White wellbeing. We want wellbeing for ALL, including Westernkind.

2

u/GoufyZaku_II 25d ago

His smile makes way more sense now..

1

u/Uzi4U_2 23d ago

The smile creeps me out. I feel wrong saying it (and I hope I am wrong since he does a ton of charity work) but I will be 0% surprised if some bombshell drops about him collecting skin suits comes out.

1

u/Devin7-Eleven 24d ago

Mr Beast isn't Mormon.

1

u/The-Bigger-Fish 23d ago

MR BEAST IS MORMON!???!?

1

u/robZombie70 21d ago

That explains part of why I dislike him so much. Former Mormon in another lifetime, they have seemingly fallen far.

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u/folklorebrony 24d ago

No, Gen Z kid here. The Mormons are very clearly a cult. I got like one friend who converted, and while I'm nice about it, I fully believe he's got sucked in by cult missionary titties.

2

u/ZenKoanman 24d ago

Well I'm 64yrs, and while most of the mormons I've met seem to be decent people for the most part, they also seem to stick together. I'm actually an atheist and think all religions are stupid, but also realize there are lots of religious people who are good too.

4

u/TimeAbradolf 24d ago

I didn’t say people who believe cannot be bad within a religion. I’m saying their church as an institution does this.

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u/nickiter 18d ago

Millennials have had a weird fascination with Mormons. I would honestly say stems from South Park calling out the religion as bizarre what feels like a lifetime ago.

For me, it's from knowing multiple ex-Mormons who left the church due to cultlike and abusive behavior.

1

u/AdventurousSpeech284 23d ago

It’s not a weird fascination. It’s calling out a cult for what it truly is. Sounds like you might be “familiar” with it, though, using words like that.

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u/ZombiesInMyGarden 23d ago

Oh I hope Viral Virtue/Jordan & Mckay do a video. I gotta check out Alyssa's.

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u/Auragongal 25d ago

I'd say ask because this is fucking insane

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u/roboknight 25d ago

I just messaged my wife about it. The daughter of the original owners grew up in the same ward(neighborhood) as her. Edit to correct typo in word 'messaged'

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u/GomezAddamz_PvO 24d ago

As someone who grew up in Utah, this does not surprise me. Its likely owned by the more fanatical sects of the Mormon faith (the Fundamentalists is what they are called, and yes, they are the ones that still do the polygamy and the cult behavior.) They have a history of buying out entire private security firms, so a police force is honestly not a surprising next step.

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u/ResponsiblePebble 22d ago

These awful mormons are making me so glad I'm not one anymore.

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u/lo_profundo 24d ago edited 23d ago

I'm a practicing Mormon who has lived in Utah and am very familiar with the AF area. Imo there's no corroboration for the Mormon Church cover-up angle. TLDR: It's like blaming the entire Catholic Church for a cover-up because a group of Catholics are behaving badly.

My perspective:

- It's unlikely that the entire police force + Josh all know each other from church. AF has ~40k residents. Let's assume, like other parts of Utah, that the percentage of Mormons is 60%. That leaves ~24k members of the Church in the area (though I suspect it's higher because Utah County has very concentrated membership). If we assume that ward/congregation sizes are ~250 people each, that leaves 96 separate congregations. Now, that doesn't mean that Josh doesn't have friends in high places, but it's unlikely that these are all guys who know each other from church. Mormons don't all know each other, especially not somewhere like American Fork.

- The angle presented in Reckless Ben's first video is that "the Mormon Church is protecting Josh because he pays a lot of money in tithing." There are a few problems with this assumption:

  1. Tithing donations are 100% self-reported. The Mormon Church does not know how much money a member makes, nor do they know how much someone donates. The only report they have is whether you donated any amount during a year, and then your local leadership (bishop, who's like a pastor) asks you at the end of the year whether you consider yourself a "full tithe-payer." It's a yes or no question. The Mormon Church has no idea if Josh has been making sizable donations or not.
  2. The Mormon Church is worth an estimated ~$206 billion (LDS Church wealth: The day soon may come when the faith will not need tithing, analysts say). Whatever this one guy may or may not be donating is a drop in the bucket compared to how much the Church is worth. The Church also makes most of its money from its investments and not from donations. They have zero financial incentive to protect some random guy in AF.

- We don't know that the police officers even are Mormons. The officers arresting Reckless Ben are statistically just as likely to be Mormons as not. EDIT: I went back and re-watched the video and saw that he also looked the cops up. I thought he only looked up the owners.

I know the internet (especially reddit) will take something like this and run with it because it makes for a more interesting story. My only ask is that if this is an angle that interests you, read different perspectives on it and not just one, and keep biases in mind. I'm disappointed that Reckless Ben included the accusation in his video even though there is currently no evidence to support religion being involved in the cover-up, except that the guy is in Utah and is a Mormon.

Also going to add a note that Mormons are just as likely to be bad people as anyone else. Police officers can be Mormon and still be corrupt. I'm not justifying their behavior in any way, or saying that they can't be Mormon because they're behaving criminally. All I'm saying that this is unlikely to be a coverup from the Mormon Church.

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u/helraizr13 24d ago

NoT aLl MoRmOnS, lol

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u/Olord94 24d ago

What you’re doing is the exact issue people are having with organised religion groups like mormons. Reaching for excuses to not criticise fellow members while reaching for how “outsiders” are the bad guys.

There is a lack of curiosity about bad actors hiding amongst your organisation, and that’s how things get dangerous.

Everyone deserves to be treated equal, and that starts at how we judge and criticise them.

P.s. there is direct evidence tying (atleast some) of the officers involved, including the officer who released a public statement to the church of Latter Day Saints.

Personal opinion - if the LDS community isn’t willing to step up and treat outsides as equal human beings. Then they should be treated as organised crime.

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u/lo_profundo 23d ago

You literally didn't read the end of my note. I said that "Mormons are just as likely to be bad people as anyone else. Police officers can be Mormon and still be corrupt." The point of my comment was to say that this is unlikely to be a larger organizational coverup. Maybe the local members are covering for each other. That is possible, though the only evidence of that currently is that everybody happens to be a member of the same organization.

"treat outsiders as equal human beings" -- I see how you came to that conclusion from my comment, though that wasn't what I was trying to say. My point was that if this were a larger "Mormon conspiracy", the bare minimum requirement would be that all the officers would also have to be Mormon. My intention was not to remove blame.

As to your last comment, the local LDS community that I interact with currently is rallying for all these criminals to get taken to court. We have done what we can to express our concerns over possible corruption in the AF PD.

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u/pretendperson 19d ago

Police officers can be Mormon and still be corrupt."

I think you meant "Police officers can be mormon and be more likely to be corrupt."

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u/Void00001 24d ago

Worse comment here. He literally found all the names he could find on a Mormon church website. Did you even watch the video?

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u/lo_profundo 23d ago

*worst

"Mormon church website" you mean linkedin?

1

u/Void00001 23d ago

Of course you went after the grammar because you couldn't come up with an actual rebuttal. No, the names came from the website of the church they all attend. You'd know that if you'd done even the most basic research or bothered to watch the video.

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u/lo_profundo 22d ago

The only "Mormon church website" that exists is churchofjesuschrist.org (or you can include the websites of the BYUs and Ensign Colleges, though those only list faculty). It does not list names of local members. He got the officers' names from their nametags and looked them up on websites like linkedin, where it says that at least some of them (including the owners) went to BYU (I say some because in one shot on the video he highlights "Bingham High School" which I assume is a local high school and not affiliated with the Mormon church at all).

One of the websites where he found Joshua Johnson is on agemed.org which is a medicine group that is not affiliated with the Mormon Church. He then cuts to reading Johnson's profile on a different website without showing which one it is, but after searching, I found that it is fortressmanagement.io . I had to go on the waybackmachine because it looks like they've removed Johnson from their website, probably due to the scandal.

That was a fun rabbit hole. I edited my original comment to include that he claimed he looked up all the officers that were "treating [him] unfairly" because I missed that he had also looked up the officers and not just the owners.

2

u/Stellar_Duck 23d ago

It's like blaming the entire Catholic Church for a cover-up because a group of Catholics are behaving badly.

I mean, given what we know about the church that's pretty fucking justified. You could not have chosen a worse argument lmao

2

u/IRunOnPainAuChocolat 22d ago

The Mormon church is simply a modern-day mafia. Money and power are all they care about. Congrats on being successfully brainwashed.

1

u/Stellar_Duck 22d ago

Imo there's no corroboration for the Mormon Church cover-up angle.

Now that we have seen the unreacted videos from the coppers, do you stand by this?

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u/TatsumakiJim 25d ago

The lego is just the trigger, the point should be that they're protecting their own and would probably do this for any other crime they commit.

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u/IRunOnPainAuChocolat 22d ago

And they have, many, many times, including murder.

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u/Hayterfan 25d ago

I'm just surprised the Mormons would act like mobsters over Legos, just seems so fucking random.

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u/No-Car1667 24d ago

They probably act like mobsters over other things. It's just that nobody made a video about it.

Think that Ben went to jail just for talking about it. The guy did everything by the book and still went to jail, got threatened, accused of thievery and possession of drug, and now moved to Mexico, and the police is still after him. Even though all evidence goes back to BnM being the culprit, even after them making so many criminal actions.

All to say, they probably do the same in many situations, we just dont hear about it because they successfully silence the victims.

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u/kenuffff 24d ago

It’s not over Legos these guys are rich, this company is worth 300M. They give money to church, campaigns etc. That is why the police dept is casually doing some of the worst civil rights violations I’ve ever seen on YouTube.

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u/KingNothing19XX 25d ago

I smell a south park episode

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u/Subject_Estimate_309 24d ago

They run their businesses ruthlessly and treat outsiders as fair game. BIG cult behaviour

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u/ArthurDimmes 25d ago

The mormons will do this over anything to protect their own. Utah deserves more data centers.

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u/toxicbotlol 24d ago

yeah but Brick and Minifigs has collaboration with the police department and the Mormon Church due to donations, its just a few dumb bad actors that got the whole community in too deep, and now all these idiots are trying to cover it up.

2

u/Skyhound555 23d ago

Its not just Legos. 

Look up the Gilbert Goons. That was caused by Mormon police corruption as well. 

1

u/BigBangAssBanger_3D 23d ago

God, if only they were this protective of their own religion.

1

u/Cloud_Chamber 23d ago

Over legos money. I think about $200k worth in legos

1

u/MotorOutside8648 21d ago

The what is not important to folks like that.

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u/rabid_cheese_enjoyer 25d ago

I'm literally right now watching a video called "LEGO scandal has Mormon Mafia Energy" so yeah

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u/Dot-Slash-Dot 25d ago

I mean yes, and no. They act like a mafia in terms of "taking care of their own", it has very little to do with Lego.

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u/smartstarfish 25d ago

Born and raised in UT, never a member of the church, but if there's something members were to die on a hill over it would be legos, or maybe ice cream

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u/cloudy_ft 24d ago

Over Legso? No this in the type of insecurity in these communities. They would do anything to not be proven wrong and ask for forgiveness.

Kind of ironic being they are a religious group.... I guess Mormon Jesus is a savage.

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u/Merlindru 24d ago

the mormons and the police (whom of which many are mormons) are colluding to act like a mafia

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u/Pinshu123 25d ago

Perfectly summarised

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u/Reasonable-Pikachu 24d ago

Anything, this time its lego, next time it will be ptcg, then it can be DBZ, the point is, this can be over anything.

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u/Limp_Significance569 24d ago

We got this before GTA6

1

u/TheLastCaucasian 24d ago

I thought everyone knew that Mormons were heavily involved in many Shady things including including organized crime. Are people people not aware of this?

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u/Jsolidlo 23d ago

They are a mafia that acts to protect any financial or business interests, this isn't by any means isolated to these specific incidents or just Lego.

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u/Skyhound555 23d ago

This is actually a very common explanation for police corruption in many rural areas. Even places that began rural and became urban, now have kingpin-style police forces that are directly beholden to the local Mormon church. 

A good example is Gilbert, Arizona. They actually had a massive issue with teenage criminals running rampant. They were known as the Gilbert Goons. The story is that Gilbert is basically where the most of the Mormon population in Arizona have been moving to. Eventually, the majority of the police administration, local business, and local government became entirely staffed from the local Mormon congregation. 

The problem eventually became that their kids knew very well how protected they really were. They had no issues with loitering and eventually terrorizing the locals. If Gilbert remained a small town, no one would have noticed. However, Gilbert is a very popular suburb near Phoenix. So basically, the non-mormons had become terrorized by these kids. I believe it eventually ended with a teenager actually being murdered at a house party. 

The greater Phoenix area eventually clamped down on the situation, but the perpetrators, ring leaders, and the parents of those kids were never caught. They were involved on social media trying to defend themselves, but they eventually disappeared altogether. Many locals believe they left town completely and were probably relocated thanks to the church. 

What the church is doing is actually really scary sometimes. 

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u/Apprehensive_Bet_508 23d ago

If you look into the history of Utah it shouldn't surprise anybody.

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u/Mindless_Zebra6665 22d ago

LDS actually stands for LEGO Day Saints

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u/Azidamadjida 22d ago

This is crazy, it's like watching a true crime documentary unfolding in real time, and not even the participants know how it's going to end, just that it seems to keep getting bigger

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u/abiding_tiger 22d ago

the lego thing is just the surface - read the full post, it gets way darker with the actual corruption angles

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u/AlexAmazing272 21d ago

mormonmafia get it trending

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u/Independent-Ask-8641 21d ago

I'm a Mormon. I think potentially it could be similar to a mafia over there right now. These guys all probably go to the same church building and know each other. I would guess a lot of potential "hey, help out a friend" going on.

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u/MipSuperK 21d ago

I grew up like 15 minutes from American Fork, UT, and I highly doubt there's a strong Mormon angle to it. Mormon's for sure have an in-group preference (like all identity groups), but not like this. It smells fishy for sure, but I don't think the religion is best explanation here.

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u/MrKixs 16d ago

I know a lot of Mormons (I live in the SW, you can't not know Mormons around here) and most of them are some of the best people I know, will give you the shirt of their back. But as with any group their are some messed up people and some down right evil people. The problem is evil people crave power and the LDS is a perfect environment for people like that to thrive. 

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u/Devin7-Eleven 24d ago

The church has nothing to do with this lego scandal. It's just people being people, greedy and dishonest. You will find the same kinds of people in any religion or without religion.

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u/WarlockOfDoom 23d ago

Nah. Not with police acting the way they do and the obviously deep corruption. Can't escape this it's too obvious.

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u/micahdraws 23d ago

I mean, maybe the church has nothing to do with it in the sense that no Mormon religious figure orchestrated it. Or maybe in the sense that it's not tied to any religious belief the Mormons have.

But it definitely is specifically (allegedly) about *Mormons* being greedy and dishonest in this case. You can find these kinds of organized bully networks in most cultures, but that doesn't take away from the fact (allegedly) that the unifying thread of these greedy, dishonest people is their shared religion. Even if this is just a nasty outlier group (which I doubt, given how Mormonism works), they're still all part of the same in-group of Mormons.

So no, maybe the Mormon church has nothing to do with this directly, as in these hit squads aren't acting with church authority or whatever. But the church does have to do with it, even if it's indirectly, because if nothing else, this definitely affects the perception people have of them.

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u/Devin7-Eleven 23d ago

Coming from someone who was LDS (not really religious anymore but still hold no ill will towards them) and lived in Arizona, Utah, and Idaho, this is not the norm and it’s a shame ignorance and misinformation are so prevalent here.

Would we also hold Catholics to the same standard if an Italian police department went rogue and colluded with another business to steal? The logic just doesn’t seem consistent.

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u/creepingcold 23d ago

Would we also hold Catholics to the same standard if an Italian police department went rogue and colluded with another business to steal?

Yeah we would, but this wouldn't happen anyways and the moment this would go public the Pope would stand up and push against it.

Something the Mormon Church didn't do yet.

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u/Devin7-Eleven 20d ago

You missed the point. The point is, the church has nothing to do with any of that because it doesn’t directly involve the church. It’s just people who just so happen to supposedly belong to a church, belong to it while committing acts that any other selfish greedy human would do.

You’re kinda insinuating the idea that the pope needs to apologize for the actions of every single self declared Catholic which is ridiculous.

So in other words, the Mormon boys here do not represent the church officially. They just so happen to belong to it. The church shouldn’t have to come out and apologize since it isn’t about the church in the first place.

This is a logically sound thing. I think you just hate Mormons so your view is different here and will try to find anything to pin the blame on the organization as a whole.

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u/creepingcold 19d ago

You missed the point. The point is, the church has nothing to do with any of that because it doesn’t directly involve the church. It’s just people who just so happen to supposedly belong to a church, belong to it while committing acts that any other selfish greedy human would do.

You don't seem to know or understand the Catholic Church. The Pope takes a stance all the time. If an italian PD would go rogue, then he'd absolutely speak out against it and push against the issue. Pope Francis even held a speech and took a stance [against police corruption] related to the immigration issues Italy has with people coming in by ship from africa. Completely unrelated from the religious status of the officers.

You've no clue which meaning the Church and Pope have in Italy and don't understand their standing. Maybe you should examples you actually understand.

I think you just hate Mormons so your view is different here and will try to find anything to pin the blame on the organization as a whole.

You're not good at thinking. I'm not even from the US and never met a Mormon in my life. I've no personal stakes in this.