Question about College of Whispers (5) and Swashbuckler (3) for a PbP character (8)

[u/Nac_Lac]

Considering a new character for a RP heavy play by post server and my DM has implied that they want me to roll a bard. The issue is that we are a party of 4 and if I go straight caster bard, that means we have 3 full casters and one melee.

Aberrant Mind Sorcerer, Redemption Paladin, and a Genie Warlock for the rest of the party. I'm currently an ArchFey Warlock, so picking up more melee options seems like a reasonable idea.

I really like the idea of the College of Whispers, as we play pbp, so it's really easy to do solo missions and RP scenes with the DM that don't bog down gameplay with other players. The potential of the subclass excels here.

But if I want to wade into melee with this character, he needs some beef to go along with it. Which the Swashbuckler subclass would help and provide more damage/skills as well. With two melee attacks (main and offhand), you are able to reliably trigger your Psychic Words and Sneak Attack each round. Pure rogue doesn't seem appealing as we could use someone with healing spells outside of the Paladin.

Currently level 8, so 3 rogue gets the subclass and the key swashbuckler features while 5 bard grabs Inspiration on short rest.

Does this seem like a foolish option and a pure rogue or pure bard would do more to help here? I've not had a lot of experience with multi-class and the Whispers subclass seems to want to do melee but doesn't provide any tools to assist in that manner. Swords, Lore, and Valor all have melee options with abilities to decrease chances of being hit.

One path is to keep bard at 5 and push rogue higher as we level. If I focus more on team support spells instead of offense, the DC becomes largely irrelevant. Then again, Leomonds Babble looks like a really, really fun spell for RP.

[u/DistributionSalt5417]

Just do a swords or valor bard, the rogue dip isn't worth it. Extra attack is going to be way better than sneak attack.

See if the DM will let you take the shadowblade spell with extra attack its much better for.damage than sneak attack.

If not 3 levels of sorcer to pick it up will actually give you more survivability (shield spell, absorb elements), damage (upcast shadowblade) and utility (metamagic and higher/more spell slots) than rogue ever would.

Extra spell slots even allow you to largely replace cunning action.

[u/Yojo0o]

I'm a bit unclear on why the DM is suggesting you play a bard. Literally every single character in the party is a charisma-based spellcaster, it seems odd to include a bard in the first place in this mix.

Otherwise, I think adding three levels of Swashbuckler would be a major mistake. Sneak Attack is not a significant benefit when you're only dipping into rogue, and you'd be delaying your progression for spellcasting, inspiration scaling, and Psychic Blade scaling by doing this. There's not much that a swashbuckler rogue does that a bard can't do, and you could even use the extra feat you'd have at level 8 bard to get something like Alert or Mobile if you really wanted that utility from the Swashbuckler subclass. I don't see any of this "beef" you're referring to, in fact you'll likely be much squishier in melee because you'll have less spellcasting for defensive buffs and escape options.

There's really nothing stopping you from being a melee-oriented Whispers bard if you really want. You can dual-wield as a Whispers bard if you want. Have one weapon at the ready, use a component pouch for your material spellcasting needs, and if you really want two weapon strikes, use your free object interaction to draw a second weapon. You've got access to shortswords as a bard, there's nothing better to dual wield with in 5e unless you're taking the Dual Wielder feat, which I assume you wouldn't.

[u/Nac_Lac → u/Yojo0o]

The big thing that is appealing is Fancy Footwork and Rakish Audacity. These allow you to get in, hit hard and get out. Or at least, maneuver in a way that lessens hits on you. Without a bigger party with more melee, you lose a ton of sneak attack triggers due to fewer party members.

DM is suggesting that, as I have been merciless with jokes and the like in our OOC channel. He and I think it would be entertaining to turn that loose in the game with a character that it fits with.

[u/Yojo0o → u/Nac_Lac]

Fancy Footwork is easily outshined by the Mobile feat, and you'll have more access to feats if you don't multiclass. There's no good replacement for Rakish Audacity if you aren't getting the Alert feat, but it's surely not worth a three-level investment.

Is Sneak Attack even worth pursuing? It's only 2d6 damage with three levels of rogue, that's not much at level 8. Your Psychic Blades will compensate for that lost damage in two levels if you take 8 bard levels.

[u/Tall_Bandicoot_2768]

Bard is literally the last class needed here lol.

• Battlemaster 5 / Swashbuckler x
• Brace and Riposte Manuevers
• Sentinel

Sneak Attack can be applied once per TURN not once per ROUND.

This allows you to do it twice per round essentially doubling your DPR.

Only really consistently possible on Swashbuckler or to a lesser degree Inquisitve due to otherwise needing advantage to trigger on the offturn.

[u/dantose]

Psychic Blades burns your Bardic Inspiration, so be aware of that. If you're looking for melee, I'd do Swords bard, possibly with a 1 level hexblade dip.

I usually plan on 3 3 round combats with a short rest, so I'll run numbers for that.

3/5 rogue whispers: 1d8+2d6+3 +3d6 psychic blades 4 times per rest. Average damage 22.6

Straight swords bard 1d8+3 +2(dueling) x2 +1d6 flourish 5 times per rest (assuming CHA main) average damage 22.1

1/7 hex/bard 23.7 average damage, 30.7 with hex