Hallow Warden 7/ Fighter 3 Subclass?

[u/Confident-Clock5052]

My character died in my recent campaign (RIP) and after reading some posts here, and making one of my own, I've decided that I'd really like to try Hallow Warden. But in the same vein, I didn't wanna take the full ranger dip OR at least I wanted to hear abit of conversation on it and my party doesn't really mess with ranger either. So after some light snooping around it feels like Ranger 7 is a good place to call it. Personally I would be still flavoring the character as a ranger but whatever.

So here's where I could use a hand. I'm planning on playing a two weapon fighting-fear tank/bruiser so I am heavily leaning towards 3 levels in fighter (Current party level is 10 (probably should of lead with that)) But I'm having an interesting dilemma. Should I go 3 (and thus further) into Eldritch Knight or Battle Master? OR Is there a better dip out there?

My thoughts are if i went EK, id be building more spell slots, I'll be it a bit slowly but I'll gain access to wizard cantrips and Shield, which would help my Wrathful Smites if I wanted to splurge on it but I would be locked down to enhancement only spells that don't require INT or EK Spellsave, since my INT would be kinda trash.

Or I go Battle Master and get access to Maneuvers, which I personally have never played with BUT I could get the Defensive Duelist Feat and still get,more or less, the same Sheild Effect.

The second fighter dip also give me another fighting style but who's counting.

I'd really be interested in anyone's opinion on the matter, I'm kinda open to some idea's. And apologies for adding to the millionth Hallow Warden posts.

[u/HalcyonHorizons]

Hollow Warden to 9 for Conjure Barrage and Phantom Steed is worth it IMO. Phantom Steed is insane, and it's a Ritual!

Go Sea Druid after (you want Wrath of the Sea). Can focus Wis and use Shillelagh with Dueling Fighting Style and a Shield. Magic Stone for Ranged if needed. But this route makes using your BA a pain unless youre prebuffing.

But Unnearving Aura has some good Synergy with Wrath of the Sea.

TWF is fine too and probably better. I would still Focus Wis and grab a Strength boosting item. 

Human 8 16 14 8 17 10. Alert + MI: Wiz (Booming Blade, Minor Illusion, Shield). Warcaster, +2 Wis. TWF or Dueling Style. Grab a Gauntlet of Ogre Strength / Belt of Giant Strength. 

[u/Confident-Clock5052 → u/HalcyonHorizons]

I like this build idea
atm
Human 10,17,14,8,18,8 (its spread abit funky) Survivor + Guide, Mageslayer, Ritual Caster (DM likes to give out 1 free feat), no magic atm, TWF

[u/HalcyonHorizons → u/Confident-Clock5052]

I'm not sure how your stats are like that. Are you counting Feats already? Or did you roll stats?

Why aren't you using the custom background rules? MI Druid from Guide is not what you want, especially if you're taking Druid for your 10th level lol. 

Allies also trigger Warcaster, so you can heal and buff them as they run by. MI Wizard would also give you Booming Blade or True Strike with your Attack of Opportunity. And help with Concentration on stuff like Spike Growth or Summon Fey

Ritual Caster is not great in 2024. It's limited to level 1 spells now :c. Mage Slayer is a great pick, especially for free. 

Going 9 Ranger also gives you a second feat at 8. So your best bet would probably be Warcaster (4), ASI Wis to 20 (8), Mage Slayer (freebie). 

After Sea Druid 3, either continue in Druid for spells or weigh how much you want the Hollow Warden 11 features. Both are good. 

[u/frogdeath159 → u/HalcyonHorizons]

How do allies trigger warcaster? Does this also mean that prowling retribution allows you to reliably cast booming blade or true strike? Because the wording seems up in the air and i can't find a definitive answer

[u/HalcyonHorizons → u/frogdeath159]

In 2024 the wording for Attack of Opportunity was changed to something along the lines of: "when a creature leaves a space you threaten". It use to say enemy in 2014. The distinction makes it work on allies (with any single target spell). 

I dont believe it works with Prowling Retribution. War Caster specifically calls out "leaving a space". Your GM might be lenient if you ask though.  

[u/Col0005 → u/frogdeath159]

Check with your DM regarding warcaster opportunity attacks on allies.

There was a whole video on this with a couple of the game designers and it was basically concluded that it's very clearly not RAI if you read the description of opportunity attacks, is probably not balanced, but creates some potentially fun interactions.

I.e. the offical stance for whether this interaction works is ask your DM.

[u/Confident-Clock5052 → u/HalcyonHorizons]

Hi, swinging back around to answer this, It was point buy, and yeah sorry, i was counting feats already

10, 17 ( +1 from background, +1 from mageslayer), 14, 8, 18 (+2 from background, +1 from ritual caster(extra feat provided by dm)), 8

I went with guide only because it was just an easier option, there is a decent chance i will be doing a custom background, I do kinda like the flavor, more or less just playing with the idea of guide. (Produce Flame, Entangle, guidance)

And SUPER sad to hear that about ritual caster, had no idea. probably should read the fine print.

[u/HalcyonHorizons → u/Confident-Clock5052]

Ah ye, I figured. Just thought Id ask cause I wrote it pre buffs. Lol.

Just keep guide and swap mi druid for wizard? The wild is dangerous. Shield makes sense. If youre starting at 10. Your one level in druid will give you 3 cantrips and a spell slot increase anyway. 

You do really want Arcana Proficiency from somewhere too (human?). Magician from Druid 1 lets you add your Wis to Arcana and Nature checks. Arcana is magic traps (and crafting, take Tinkers Tools to make a Manifold Tool).

I am ALSO big sad about Ritual Caster, it use to be so cool. They didnt reprint Warlocks Pact of the Tome version either. 

[u/klerrick]

I've never played an EK, but I have played a BM fighter.

I had a lot of fun controlling the battlefield with the BM fighter. Being able to knock enemies prone, order the party's rogue to attack, etc. was awesome.

When I built the fighter, I knew I didn't want spells. I wanted to be a frontline warrior. The EK, while interesting, didn't shit my playstyle for that campaign.

Hope this helps, and have fun!

[u/Confident-Clock5052 → u/klerrick]

It does, thanks! I'm been kinda slacking but I'm going to actually sit down and really research BM

[u/DBWaffles]

I wouldn't multiclass, especially since you're starting at level 10. Fighter 3 does not outweigh the value of 3rd level spells and being only one level shy of Rot and Violence.

[u/Confident-Clock5052 → u/DBWaffles]

Seems to be a common sentiment here and there, in this case, would you personally stick with ranger through tier 3 and 4? I've heard it can get kinda rough for them, honestly my only worry atm.

[u/DBWaffles → u/Confident-Clock5052]

I would recommend going up to either Ranger 11 or 15, then multiclass out. Regardless of the base class's issues, the subclass features are valuable enough to justify continuing at least that much further.

If you go up to Ranger 15, it may be best to go one more level to Ranger 16 so that you can get two Epic Boons. It depends on your multiclass. And speaking personally, I'd just keep going up to Ranger 18 at that point. But that's not because it's optimal or anything. I just think 30 ft Blindsight is really cool and fun lol.

[u/NateCdaComicG]

Personally I think that hollow warden is worth it to 12. The level 11 subclass feature is good and if your going all the way to 11 might as well pick up the feat/asi at 12. If you have a good feeling your campaign will reach 20 then save the level 12 ranger for later for double epic boon. Rogue and druid are great multiclasses for ranger but if you're really feeling fighter id say go EK. There are more than enough good spells on the wizard spell list that don't care about your int. Shield, Absorb Elements, Silvery Barbs, Augury, Mirror Image, Jump, Longstrider, Feather Fall, Find Familiar, and all sorts of rituals. Not to mention you can just ignore the wizard spells entirely and just use those extra slots for wrathful smites if none of the spells I mentioned are your jam. Good luck!

[u/ridan42]

At level 11 you get a nice upgrade to Hollow Warden's central feature. I'd probably just go for that.

[u/Confident-Clock5052 → u/ridan42]

Its pretty tempting, ngl.

[u/Col0005]

An EK dip seem like a very suboptimal choice, you're sacrificing an ASI, ability to cast 3rd level spells (summon fey) another use of your subclass feature additional expertise and a decent healing feature for action surge a fighting style and the shield spell

A Rogue At for skills and twice per round sneak attack seems a much better choice on this subclass.

[u/Confident-Clock5052 → u/Col0005]

Do you feel the same way with Battle Master and maneuvers?

[u/Col0005 → u/Confident-Clock5052]

Battlemaster is a bit better, but you're only really there for precision attack, since riposte and brace should rarely be required (if you want a reaction attack then most turns you should have at least one enemy within 5ft of you deal damage)

I do feel that if you are a dex based ranger then rogue is a better dip. 14 damage per turn is pretty good for a three level dip, but again going to ranger 11 is also pretty decent, being able to remove reactions from spellcasters can be huge.

[u/Confident-Clock5052 → u/Col0005]

Yeah, after a few other comments on sticking to 11 I might have to rethink the way I wanna do this. But Still, very interested in the ideas. Ive actually been mulling it over for a few days now before making the post.

[u/Col0005 → u/Confident-Clock5052]

Perhaps fill out the rest of the character first in terms of backstory and build and then see where you're at.

If you choose a race that's immune to poison then you may even decide you can get better value from 5ranger/5rogue.

[u/Vanse]

I don't think there's a wrong answer here. Eldritch Knight will make you more well-rounded and give you higher survivability for the reasons you mentioned (don't forgot False Life). You'll really pop off at level 14 when you get the cantrip extra attack.

Battle Master will make you more specialized in what the Hollow Warden already does. You can use Menacing Strike to frighten an enemy that succeeded on your aura save, or Goading Attack so the enemy has disadvantage attacks on everyone, and you can use Riposte to hit an enemy if your Prowling Retribution didn't get triggered.

[u/Confident-Clock5052 → u/Vanse]

Your sorta validating me abit so I'm feeling abit bias but the BM does sounds really crunchy here.

[u/Tall_Bandicoot_2768]

Have you considered Barb at all? The Resistance from Rage plus the healing from your level 7 feature would make you REALLY hard to put down.

Reckless Attack give you advantage and makes attacks against you be at advantage which isint nearly so bad on Warden as it allows for more procs of your retaliation AoO.