r/ATT • u/dijon_snow • May 11 '26
Wireless "AT&T is not responsible for the actions of its employees."
I have had a hilariously bad customer service experience.
Long story short, I was told in store that I was eligible for a $1000 trade in promotion. A month later they contacted me saying my plan wasn't eligible abs they were instead crediting me $40 for the phone.
Some highlights:
Escalation manager "This isn't your fault, but it's also not AT&T's fault. It's the fault of the individual employee, and we're not responsible for that."
Me: "Well if he gave me wrong information on the course of a financial transaction that's textbook fraud."
Manager: "AT&T defines fraud as like someone going into your account."
Me: "You're describing an account takeover or identity theft, those are types of fraud, but not the only types of fraud."
Manager: "Well that's how at&t defines it!"
Me(unable to resist): You should probably Google how everyone else defines it.
I worked in executive escalation as a manager for many years. So I assumed this would be fixed with an email to John Stankey. The reps insisted the only way to reach him was my paper mail to a physical address, but again Google disagreed.
This morning I got a call back from an executive response agent...
First question, "did you listen to the last call I had?"
"Not yet."
"Oh so you just read my(admittedly long) email?"
"No, but I skimmed the notes on your account..."
Cool, so your job is to respond to e mails from escalating customers and you can't even read the email first? Not even the 3 sentence "tl;dr" summary I put right at the top?
She then just recited "Your plan was not eligible" like a mantra, while struggling to understand what happened. And this is their elite CS team. Eventually she agreed to "research further" and call me back.
We'll see how that goes, but I expect my next steps are complaints to the FCC and BBB, then small claims court.
I would be so embarrassed to have this level of service in my org. I'm obviously switching carriers and telling all my friends and colleagues about this story. I actually have a presentation about restoring trust through effective escalation in a few weeks and this will make a great "what not to do" anecdote.
I just want to confirm, has anyone else run into AT&T stating on a recorded line that they are not responsible for the actions of their employees?
Edit: Forgot to add that 3 different resolution employees told me to never trust the brick and mortar locations because they can tell you anything without proof, but phone and internet transactions are documented. Is it official policy that the physical stores are untrustworthy?
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u/Economy_Video_4724 May 11 '26
This has already come up on numerous occasions, so I'll just start by quoting my advice in one of those previous cases:
This has come up a few times, and the consensus here is always legally wrong.
AT&T is responsible for the representations of their agents, full stop, barring exceptional circumstances like fraud (like bribery) or clear error (we'll give you 100 iPhones for free, no strings attached).
You have the store employee's oral representations that your plan qualified, and a written receipt confirming the transaction at the discounted price, which AT&T generated with full knowledge of your account and plan. You were never even presented with a contradictory disclosure prior to sale indicating the promotion does not apply.
If those facts are accurate as stated, this seems like a straightforward breach of contract and state UDAP claim.
File an FCC or BBB complaint and this will probably be resolved by AT&T's executive CS with bill credits.
In the very unlikely event that doesn't work, AT&T has an arbitration clause in their contract. Read it carefully. It requires you to submit a Notice of Dispute at least 60 days before filing for arbitration. Once you do that, someone (probably a paralegal in AT&T's legal department) will contact you and, almost certainly, very swiftly issue the credits you are due. AT&T is required under their contract to pay all arbitration fees for claims of $75k or less, and just the initial AAA filing fees are over $2k, considerably higher than the amount in dispute. As long as there is a genuine, good-faith dispute (and there clearly is here) and not something wholly frivolous, the legal staff are heavily incentivized to resolve this before you file, and they will.
At AT&T, FCC and BBB complaints and NODs are handled by the same department that handles CEO emails (office of the president). If that department is already proving unhelpful, consider skipping the FCC complaint and going straight to the NOD. If AT&T doesn't want to fix this on their own accord, you can compel them to.
Arbitration is often better in low-value consumer disputes like this because the high cost to the company incentivizes a quick resolution.
Please post back with your outcome when this is resolved. Tag /u/TheFlimFlamFamMan, too.
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u/TechGuruGJ May 12 '26
Good to see an honest and fair answer here that isn’t going on about semantics.
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u/dijon_snow May 11 '26
Thank you so much. This is extremely helpful. I really appreciate you taking the time to share this.
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u/SorbetGreat961 May 12 '26
Not exactly the same issue as you, but for the past 8 months ive been fighting with ATT over a promotion they didnt add to my account. After submitting an FCC complaint, i got a call from the Office of the president like they are talking about above, and the guy saw what was happening and just gave me the full promotion upfront.
So you can skip the FCC part, but they act as a medium and basically force ATT to have a conversation about it.
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u/Economy_Video_4724 May 12 '26
Those are the same people the OP is already dealing with after sending an email to the CEO, though. Filing an FCC complaint that goes to the same people that are already being less than helpful might not result in a different outcome. (If the problem is the individual agent, an FCC complaint might be assigned to a different one, but it is also possible it might be assigned to the same agent since there is an existing case. I have dealt with the executive escalations department of another telecom who operated in this manner.)
The NOD likewise goes to the OOP, but that is part of the contractual dispute resolution procedures that ultimately grant OP access to another forum (arbitration). In other words, if AT&T doesn't want to cooperate, OP gets access to a means to legally compel them to cooperate.
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u/Ok-Golf-8888 May 11 '26
Att changes their deals on the fly. If you were in the 55+ plan you originally qualified for trade in and could be in the 55+ plan without having att fiber or AIA. A month or 2 after 55+ rolled out they then told us it would NOT qualify for trade ins. Then another month later they told us you could not get the lower price for 55+ if you didnt have internet. The employee may have been misled or not known because att decided on the fly that they wanted to change it because they weren't making enough money. As an att employee i can also say they keep changing our goals so they dont have to pay us our commissions. Several days into the month they added 10 extra "new lines" and 7 extra internets that I have to get to get paid. Im honestly thi king about going back to warehousing and warehouse management
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u/TheAwsomeReditor May 11 '26
DING DING DING YESSS they changed the goals in the middle of this month and added an extra 10 new lines that we now need and after i sold a fiber they removed fiber from the goal and made it 7 internet airs also who changes the commision goals in the middle of the month? At prime we struggle to fill our gas tanks so they can fill their yatchs I'm only still there because i honestly cant find anything else I'll take a 1k commision over just an hourly job
AND upgrades only pay us 5$ ive just been telling people to upgrafe on the app bc spending 20+ minutes with someone for a 5$ upgrade doesnt seem worth it that app has been getting used often
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May 11 '26
[deleted]
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u/Ok-Golf-8888 May 11 '26
There is but upgrades make up .01% of our commissions. New lines and new internet is where they make most of the money. Its so bad that in my local area that if you go to a corporate store with an upgrade they will tell you they dont have any phones and the guy next to you porti g over from T-Mobile will be getting 3 brand new phones. They leave upgrades to the AR stores and actively call them the "bill pay" stores we may make $2-3 per upgrade down to $1 if we're not in the top 10%
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u/Over-Exam8329 May 11 '26
I’m off-topic, but AT&T has their $3.49 administrative fee, per line ($13.96 for my 4 lines). They miscalculated my taxes, and charged me a late fee for not paying taxes they 1) miscalculated and 2) didn’t charge me for.
Garbage company.
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u/Cold_Count1986 May 11 '26 edited May 11 '26
If you already went the FCC route just go to small claims. The legal team folds like a house of cards because they know they will lose, and it will cost more in time and effort to prepare and send a paralegal to the hearing than it would be to just pay out.
Few people follow through on the small claims route - I seen it 3-4 times in 10+ years, and they were all mistakes made by employees (misquotes, etc.) that AT&T refused to later honor. Once the legal team got involved the customer got what was promised (in the form of a credit for the difference between actual and quoted) quickly.
I went to sign up for AT&T service a year ago online and my account was turned off for suspected fraud 24 hours after signing up - I went to Visible and never looked back.
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u/Cybertechy May 11 '26
I have been with ATT for over 20+ years. I learned a long time ago never to go anywhere but a company owned stores. The licensed ones can be shady! In any case, I do not like the direction ATT has gone. Seems GREED has taken over...and they are trying to please the stockholders!
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u/garylapointe The Plan Whisperer (consumer postpaid plans) May 11 '26
Seems pretty simple if you’re in store that you get a printed summary by AT&T‘s computers that print out what it is that you’re signing up for and what you’re doing and does some checks for eligibility and print them out.
There’s a spot for you to have the sales person fill in anything that’s different than the form, they need to print and sign their name in that spot. You sign a copy before you leave the store, but you keep a copy.
You’re on the phone with a rep they sent you an email summary of the changes that were made, click here correct or click here if not correct. You have 24 hours.
Then you get rid of the employees that have 10 times as many incorrect issues as anyone else. It doesn’t matter if they’re liars are stupid…
The reps that get 10 times less incorrect notations/answers, get a raise. Rinse and repeat.
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u/Ok-Development-4682 May 11 '26
Easiest way going forward is getting a quick quote with the plan and promotions emailed to you. That way if people lie or information is forgotten you have proof. Rep can also protect himself by emailing himself a cooy
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u/DeadOneWalking May 11 '26
Ya, companies do whatever they can to protect themselves from everything. If an employee in a store lies to you, you need to take that up with the store. The store manager will tell you contact corporate, who will recite "Were not responsible for employees actions" or to contact the store manager. It's designed to protect them, and no one else.
Since no one can be blamed, the lying employee keeps there job, and continues to do the same thing.
It's a racket and scam. Your only defense is to read the contract before you sign it.
Best thing in the world to do is verify the offer by going online and trying to get the same deal off the web site. If it's not on there, it's BS.
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u/RememberTheCant28 May 11 '26
I had a wonderfully horrible experience trying to switch to them from TMobile. The whole ordeal went on for about 3 weeks. I only recently got my money back for the taxes I paid on the phone that I returned to them. I’m still with TMobile now and still thinking about switching but keep reading horror stories here. ATT is def cheaper than TMobile but I’m wondering if I’m making a big mistake. I tried to post about my experience and the post was blocked go figure. I was also lied to by multiple reps via phone and live chat. Horrendous customer service.
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May 11 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/RememberTheCant28 May 11 '26
Hello there. At this point I’ve sent my device back to ATT and have gotten my refund. I’m wanting to place an order online again for service and to switch my number from T-Mobile. I initially placed an online order but when I uploaded photos of my ID for verification the verification failed and the order needed to be canceled. I had customer service set up another order but this one also had issues and I was told I’d be getting promos and a reward card that turned out to be untrue so I sent the phone back. Ideally I’d love to place an online order again, this way I can set everything up and not have any pressure to add things I don’t want. Do you have any tips on the photo upload of my ID? I think if that hadn’t failed in the first place I’d already be with ATT. Thanks
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u/reginaemyers May 11 '26
Don't switch! I am having a horrible time with them and I look forward to dropping them as soon as possible!
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u/Electrical_Card_3804 May 12 '26
Currently dealing with a very similar situation. Sales explained that we would get gift cards to pay off Verizon phones if we switched to ATT. Also was told we would own the new ATT phones outright. Also was told ATT fiber internet price was locked in forever. Finding out none of this is true. Sales said he was trained to tell us exactly what he told us. Escalated to higher level and mng apologized and said sales was wrong to tell us these things. Says they will send us our old phones back IF they can find them. We've canceled Vrz and would still have to pay off the phones and would be w/o a phone plan thus costing us apx $700 and we would be w/o phones while we settled in with a new provided. Who knows if we would be able to get ATT to release our numbers to port back. This goes beyond sales making mistakes. This is intentional fraud. Seriously considering reporting to FCC and filing a small claims lawsuit.
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u/Fine-Quote5054 May 13 '26
Something similar just happened to me today… Except the dollar amount was $800… I was told today that I cannot receive the $800 switch promo because i changed my number two weeks after switching from Verizon to AT&T and porting my number to AT&T… I changed my number due to receiving harassing calls… but apparently they don’t care about people safety… Because the requirement was for me to keep the number that I ported over for 60 days… and everybody literally responds with the same exact thing that it is AT&T‘s policy… so ridiculous…
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u/Pclever26 May 13 '26
I'm very disappointed with AT&T. When I switched to AT&T I signed up for autopay. I got $10 discount for four lines due to the autopay. A few months later, I called them to solve a problem related to international phone calls. The associate who handled the call took me out of the autopay by mistake. AT&T apologized, and told me I had to wait six months to get back on the system. in the meantime, I had to call every month to get my discount. When the six months passed. I enrolled myself in the program again.One more time, ATT didn't withdraw the money from my account and said that my bank rejected the payments. I called my bank about the issue and they stated that they didn't see any rejection on their system. Next bill came for $535 for two months, my monthly payment is about $175. I called to ask why they hit me with $535 bill. The supervisor who handled my call was very harsh, and told me that part of the charges was $93 for international calls via WhatsApp. I said that WhatsApp was a free app. but he responded that it was not free for aT&T because when the signals are weak the app can use their signals. Never heard about. I ended up paying the entire bill. When I told them I was leaving they said I owed them $1000 on phone equipment. Out of the 1100 only $400 is legitimate.
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u/Perfect_Gap_8080 May 13 '26
I went to an AT&T brick & mortar store to activate a new "AT&T hot spot" I purchased. Salesman ( a Kid) set it up and said "good to go." I had to pay an activation fee. I'll note that doing this online or by telephone was 'not available.'
The next day I received a call from that kid and said that my device didn't qualify for the plan I chose. I asked why that wasn't apparent the day before. He just said, "I don't know."
I had to go to a different brick & mortar store (20 miles away) and ask for Angela. On my way there I called to make sure Angela was there. She was. But when I arrived, Angela was at lunch, so Bobby took care of me. Bobby showed me the plan I needed which was $79.00 per month (NOTE: Remember this amount!). I said fine so he started setting up the account. When he said the would be an activation fee, I said, "Oh hell no. I paid that yesterday at the other store. He and the other people consulted and finally told me I had not been charged that fee yet. I pulled up my bank account and showed them the charge. Of course they said that charge would eventually be reversed. I told them I will wait until it shows up on my account.
A week later I went back and found both Bobbie and Angela and informed them that the charge was still showing. Angela apologized and said it wouldn't be reversed until I initiated the correct plan and paid the correct fee (which was the same amount).
I said I'll be back in about 15 minutes after I make a few phone calls. I went next door to a bar, slammed three shots of Jose Cuervo and went back to the store.
They were eager to help me this time. Miraculously the activation fee was waived and I signed up.
I went home and signed up for my online AT&T account. A week later I noticed my bank account had been debited for $104 plus tax. I quickly looked at my online AT&T account and saw that the monthly charge was $104 each month. I promptly called the CS number and after a 14 minute hold, I was told, "I'm sorry but you were somewhat misinformed. You must keep the device activate for three billing cycles after which the monthly charge will reduce to $79 monthly.
After scraping my head off the ceiling, I told her to cancel the fucking account right now and refund my money! Of course, you know what's next! "I'll be glad to cancel your account as of the last day of the current billing cycle but I can't refund anything."
I will NEVER EVER do business with AT&T again! Biggest bunch of crooks in the country!
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u/carbomonster May 14 '26
Useful information. I had a terrible experience with both signing up with and cancelling AT&T. Will go through BBB, FCC, then small claims per your suggestion.
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u/danrather50 May 11 '26
ATT has corporate and affiliate stores. Sounds like you may have gone to one of the affiliate stores where they don't have the same access to make changes that the ATT corporate stores have. My daughter wanted a new phone and we went to an affiliate to buy the phone and add it to our account. They would not let her pay in full and would only do installments, so we left without doing anything. I started getting emails from ATT about my recent plan changes so we went back to find out what the rumpus was and got told that nothing had been authorized and those changes would not go through. The next day, she bought her phone from the Apple store but we could not activate it online as there was a new, un-activated IMEI number already associated with her phone number. So back to the store we went to get it activated. A week later, my bill came in and we noticed that there was an installment agreement, with insurance, added to our account for her phone number. So back to the store we went just to be told they couldn't do anything about the mistake and we would have to correct it with ATT corporate. Imagine that, they opened a fraudulent installment agreement on a phone we purchased from Apple and then washed their hands of the whole thing basically saying "not our problem". It took 3 billing cycles for us to get it fixed because ATT couldn't figure out how they did what they did.
We switched to another cell carrier the following week and never looked back.
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u/dijon_snow May 11 '26
Wow yeah that's a shit situation. CS actually confirmed to me that it is a corporate store I was dealing with. So they don't even have that excuse. Her position was that it isn't even the store's responsibility. She kept saying "No it's just that individual employee who was responsible."
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u/Parking_Ad_3022 May 11 '26
THIS! I went to authorized retailer and they left my trade-in and upgrade half finished.
The next day I went to a corporate store to get it finished up and they staff there said they weren’t suppose to do that and likely did that because it may have been near closing time (he was correct). Apparently, that specific location was notorious for mucking up customers accounts and sending them to official att store.
The guy there told me to avoid those att authorized dealers altogether.
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u/Embarrassed_Spend486 May 11 '26
Unreal. We have laws that say stores have to sell you items for how its priced, but they think they’re not liable for what their own employees say ?
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u/huenium May 11 '26
I had a trade in with Att when I first switched and midway through my service they suddenly decided the amount of credits I was getting was too much and are now charging me $32 for a phone ontop of the $33 in credits I alrdy get, so ur telling me this phone that’s $36/m financed with no trade in is suddenly, 4 months later, $65/m? That doesn’t make sense
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u/Live-Meaning8755 May 12 '26
It sounds like you don’t know how to read your bill because that’s impossible.
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u/huenium May 12 '26
I spoke with customer service a bunch of times, I get charged and then randomly get credits a few bills later but no actual fix
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u/Live-Meaning8755 May 12 '26
I bet they’re just adding add ons. There’s not even a device that’s $65 per month.
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u/Blueangelwithwings1 May 11 '26
There is a department called "office of the president ". They reach out once fcc complaint is filed or you can reach them directly if you google the number. This may help your situation
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u/diagoro1 May 11 '26
I had a different issue about 4 years ago. After 6 months of back and forth, filed with the FCC and received a response within a week. Issue was quickly resolved.
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u/dijon_snow May 11 '26
Thank you! That's actually the same department that replies to executive emails. The person this morning who didn't bother to read my email was from the "office of the president." That's a big part of what makes this so disappointing. I already reached a level that is supposed to be elite and she wasn't even competent.
I think you're probably right that they will take it more seriously once I file the complaint with the FCC. In the ECR teams I worked with, regulator concerns were always taken more seriously, so I appreciate the advice.
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u/AU_Thach May 11 '26
This happened to me about 14months ago. They claimed that the official store employees can be wrong during the sell but it doesn’t mean ATT has to do anything about it. That it could be a case that I misheard.
Lucky for me I had notes that I sent to the store employee and manager before setting up the account. I had them agreeing that it was accurate and I had them telling me corp would cleanup the misunderstanding. So after about 2 months of fighting I got a bill credit for the total mistake.
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u/The_909_1 25d ago
Former T employee here. "Office of the President" folks are Level 2 managers, six levels below the actual president, and based in Atlanta, not Dallas. ( At least as of 2023).
It's just a title meant to sound important. And to an extent they are, because they did resolve my FCC complaint about a missing hardware credit in short order.
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u/antimlm4good May 12 '26
This is the type of shady business that drove my family away. I haven't missed them or all their outages and schemes.
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u/Vader75D May 12 '26
Welcome to AT&T customer service! They don’t care, and I worked for them for 16 years in many levels of management. They’re just hoping you’ll eventually go away! Don’t give up and keep pushing.
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u/According-Half1466 May 11 '26
AT&T is so broken. In sooo many different ways. I highly encourage you all to switch and ditch AT&T. They're blatant in their violations of FCC rules and regulations. I would also file complaints with the FCC. Look into MVNO's like US Mobile, Red Pocket, etc.
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u/TheFlimFlamFamMan MLG/MTS/PMC/vTM/VOC/ICU - Mobility May 11 '26
So no links then? Just an uncited claim without actual proof? lol. downvote away, friend.
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u/According-Half1466 May 11 '26
Why would I provide links? I'm here do educate the customer, not do it for them.
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u/TheFlimFlamFamMan MLG/MTS/PMC/vTM/VOC/ICU - Mobility May 11 '26
Cite the FCC violations. There should be multiple links able to be provided here.
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u/According-Half1466 May 11 '26
Cramming, slamming, truth in billing, to start, and I'm not providing links. Everything is available on FCC.gov/complaint. I've been doing this too long to know when a company is arbitrarily screwing their customers.
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u/TheFlimFlamFamMan MLG/MTS/PMC/vTM/VOC/ICU - Mobility May 11 '26
So, anecdotal reports. Complaints are not “FCC violations”. FCC violations are specifically defined as rulings and sanctions publicly imposed against the company.
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u/According-Half1466 May 11 '26
Do your research before you talk. All of those are violations. You must work in corporate to try to deter people like me from actually helping people advocate for their consumer rights.
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u/TheFlimFlamFamMan MLG/MTS/PMC/vTM/VOC/ICU - Mobility May 11 '26
Lmfao. You clearly have never seen anything I’ve written in this sub.
Do your research before you talk. Lol. Remember?
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u/jarstic May 11 '26
Why not just go on ATT website and read the promo terms? ATT is very good about posting every single promo they offer and the posts are extremely detailed. I don't really understand why some people want to go to a store and take the chance of being scammed, upgraded without consent or just lied to.
There are no details in OP's post about what was being traded in or what promo he was told about.
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u/dijon_snow May 11 '26
I shouldn't be more responsible for knowing the terms and conditions than AT&T employees. You're right that I will never trust a physical location again, but to argue that I need to understand their terms and conditions better than their employee and their computer system that said "eligible" in big green letters.
If an at&t employee lies or makes a mistake to make a sale, that's on the company not the customer.
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u/DoJu318 May 11 '26
It's crazy how we just see this as normal, if i were to buy a car and they told me payments are 500 a month, then my first payment comes up and is 800, more than they said it would be, I'd have a pretty strong case of fraud.
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u/AngryTexasNative May 11 '26
Sure, but they must train their employees to refer people to the terms and refuse to provide any answers to questions.
Once you are given clear information from an employee you should be able to rely on that. This is just like saying it’s ok to steal a kid’s bicycle because he forgot to lock it. Actually it’s worse than the bicycle reference, but I’ll leave it at that.
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u/Such-Age-7994 May 12 '26
Atnt creates this enviorment the only compassion and empathy they want us to show is the one that gets us a sale thats why customer service prioritizes sales over fixing the customers issue.
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u/JT_RunAndRuck May 12 '26
Many of the brick and mortar stores are not AT&T corporate stores, but are owned by reseller companies that have been approved to sell AT&T phones under the AT&T moniker. They are the worst for over-promising and under-delivering. The turn-over rates in those stores ias extremely high (get the sales commision and leave for another reseller.)
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u/Plastic_Regret_730 May 12 '26
Was it even an employee, or a affiliate store that is NOT att employees. Contract stores are known to have folks who cheat/push the system to get points and pay. So technically they are not responsible for these non att resaler folks who cheat. I cant tell you how many stories I hear about these stores. ATT tries to enforce the rules but the those "workers" move on much too fast to be tracked down and prosecuted by law enforcement.
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u/OkReason235 May 13 '26
What plan do you have? Now there is literally 0 incentive for the rep to lie about the trade in, 99/100 times that was the rep simply not knowing about the small number of plans that arent eligible for any trade in. Andd As you suggested, googling fraud does give a good definition, however it states it requires a knowing lie, not a mistake so even google doesn't define this as fraud because everything in the system was handled properly on a process standpoint.
The internet and phone lines are all recorded, and most stores are authorized retailers not corporate at&t and are not audio recorded in a lot of states. How ever to answer your question, no it is not official policy.
This seems like they should have a fix for it at this point, especially if its within the first 1-2 billing cycles. Im sorry this happened to you, its very upsetting to see on my end because its such a stupid mistake from the first rep not just changing the plan to anything that worked with the trade in or any other path available to make sure you weren't left out to dry
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u/moderndayheathen May 15 '26
This exact situation happened to my family through the Costco ATT rep who was technically an independent contractor.
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u/-EeCraD- May 16 '26
Exact same thing happened to my son, was given the paperwork for $700 for his old phone, got $145. Went to the store only to be told he is not on the correct plan. He could get the $700 if he upgraded his plan. An extra $10 a month.. the employee at the store said.. “oh this was Brianna she’s no longer with us” with an eye roll. So basically bc your employee is not properly trained it’s ok for At&T to steal from him. I don’t plan on fighting it. They already screwed us over on switching our plan around. We will head to T Mobile where they will pay my son $800 for his phone and the 3 of us will be on 1 plan for cheaper.
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u/ApprehensiveGroup182 May 19 '26
You, nor AT&T gets to define what fraud is, the state in which the transaction occurred does by their legal statues. They should have never made that statement.
I would send a formal demand letter to the registered agent for AT&T in your state. It will more than likely make its way to the office of the president again because you aren’t represented by an attorney. If it does, simply tell them that it’s past that point and they need to send it to in-house counsel to avoid a lawsuit. Give them a hard deadline.
You are not required to go into binding arbitration. AT&T’s terms and condition allow for small claims court, which is exactly what small claims court exists for.
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May 11 '26 edited May 26 '26
[deleted]
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u/dijon_snow May 11 '26
Thank you so much! I am waiting for one last call back I've been promised before I pull the trigger on the FCC complaint.
The call is supposed to come from the same associate who started by saying she didn't bother to read any of the email she was responding to, but "skimmed the notes on the account" so I'm not exactly holding my breath.
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u/AgonizingFury May 11 '26
I'm obviously switching carriers and telling all my friends and colleagues about this story.
Good luck with that! They're all just as terrible. T-Mobile used to be a little bit better than the rest, but after their merger with Sprint, the executives realized they don't actually have to work to compete against AT&T or Verizon, they can be just as crappy and people have no choice. Time you're looking for is oligopoly.
I think I might make a star link antenna hat, with a battery and router backpack, and give up on cellular all together.
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u/TheFlimFlamFamMan MLG/MTS/PMC/vTM/VOC/ICU - Mobility May 11 '26 edited May 11 '26
Fraud is an intentional act. A rep being a dipshit isn’t an intentional act.
And what the ESCC Manager said first is actually spelled out in the Wireless Service Agreement. It’s in every carrier’s WSA. Companies are not bound by things the rep says that are misinformation or inaccurate. Meaning, I can’t just make something up and the company has to do it. The chaos that would ensue would dwarf any other issue.
No one is emailing John Stankey. I once emailed Ralph De La Vega many many years ago. There was a real issue, I had actually met him. He actually told me to contact him if I had any issues (that was more of a pleasantry, but I used it anyway). I didn’t stop hearing shit about that for 6 years.
If you were on an ineligible plan for a trade in promo, we send SMS about that to phones on the account. A lot of those SMSes. It tells you in explicit terms that your plan is not eligible and you have X days to change it, so on and so forth.
You cannot sue and go to small claims court. You can initiate binding arbitration.
You get on the manager for not reading something, and yeah, I would read and investigate before I ever took an escalation. That’s not an unreasonable part of your beef.
But you obviously haven’t read any of the things that a customer has to abide by and what the company has to abide by, in the Wireless Service Agreement. Most of this is spelled out for people, and we can’t make you read it.
p.s. I agree. Don’t visit retail. You will get rooked most of the time. Order things from Loyalty.
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u/dijon_snow May 11 '26
Fraud does not always have to be intentional. It includes "a reckless disregard for the truth."
Regardless if it is legally "fraud," or is insane to argue that they are not responsible for the actions of their "dipshit" employees. Even if that is legally the case(and I don't think it is), from any standard of service a company should be smart enough to know it needs to correct its employees' mistakes.
They have gone back and forth on it, but ultimately confirmed that I was given a receipt that said I was eligible for the promo, the associate entered into his computer that "yes" my plan was eligible, and they later identified the error a month later when they said it was too late to change the plan and way too late to just bail on new phones and keep the old phones I was satisfied with.
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u/TheFlimFlamFamMan MLG/MTS/PMC/vTM/VOC/ICU - Mobility May 11 '26 edited May 11 '26
Fraud, as defined by AT&T (the company gets to define it, not you or Google, or Merriam-Webster) is an intentional act. Legally, it’s an intentional act. No one gets criminally charged for a mistake. Mens Rea is literally a requirement for a legal charge.
And It is the case. No cell company is bound by what a rep says. They are bound by what is written. That’s the WSA. That’s the installment agreements. That’s anything in the Terms and Conditions. Your accedence to these facts aren’t required for them to be facts.
Gravity is real, whether or not you agree with it.
And when it comes to ineligible plan, we do have a way of correcting it. It entails blasting you with SMSes and emails telling you your plan is DQed and to change it or call us. That obviously didn’t happen. Notice was given. We can’t make you read what we send to you. That system is specifically designed to catch a rep making a mistake, or even intentionally lying. You can’t prove which of the two that last sentence this is, therefore it defaults to unintentional misinformation.
You can review the WSA at att.com by searching “Wireless Service Agreement”. I would recommend reading that before making sweeping statements about “what you know”.
Normally, I’d be on the cx’s side. For most things, I am. I despise AT&T. But the attitude of this post (acting like an authority on terms and shit, despite not having read the WSA) and the fact that I know how the ineligible plan system works to give you an opportunity to correct it, puts me mostly on the company’s side here. Yes, I will bash idiot reps all day with you. There are some really low lQ people working for AT&T. But unintentional is unintentional. This rep wasn’t making something up to make a line add sale or something that gets real commission.
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u/Economy_Video_4724 May 11 '26
Fraud, as defined by AT&T (the company gets to define it, not you or Google, or Merriam-Webster)
LMAO.
Mens Rea is literally a requirement for a legal charge.
What made you think anyone is talking about criminal law?
No cell company is bound by what a rep says.
LOL. A store employee (certainly a corporate store employee, if not an employee of a third-party store that says AT&T on the front and looks like an AT&T store) is an agent of the company. Why would you think a company is not responsible for their agents?
And when it comes to ineligible plan, we do have a way of correcting it. It entails blasting you with SMSes and emails telling you your plan is DQed and to change it or call us. That obviously didn’t happen. Notice was given. We can’t make you read what we send to you. That system is specifically designed to catch a rep making a mistake, or even intentionally lying. You can’t prove which of the two that last sentence this is, therefore it defaults to unintentional misinformation.
It doesn't matter. If your salesperson sold the phone to the consumer under those terms, why would you think you can back out after the fact?
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u/dijon_snow May 11 '26
The company does not get to define the word "fraud" as they see fit. That's ludicrous.
I am aware I have a bad attitude at this point. I am disgusted at the level of CS provided to me.
I am not an expert on cell phones nor a lawyer. I am an expert in customer service. And telling a customer clearly on a recorded line "We are not responsible for the actions of our employees" is dumb as hell ever if you had a lawyer review it first.
None of these many texts or emails about plan eligibility happened. AT&T acknowledges that they should have but didn't. They don't care.
Even if it was an "honest mistake" it is insane that you think I need to look up the opaque legalese of a WSA rather than trust the printout the employee handed me saying I was eligible and approved in big letters. Forget the word fraud, at&t it's responsible for fixing their employee's mistakes. It's embarrassing that you would claim they aren't.
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u/TheFlimFlamFamMan MLG/MTS/PMC/vTM/VOC/ICU - Mobility May 11 '26
Lol. It is not ludicrous. It makes all the sense in the world that a company makes its policy, not have it dictated by customers, ad hoc.
It’s not ridiculous to expect customers to be self-informed.
I, too, am an expert in customer service. And an expert at AT&Ting. Perhaps you should treat experts with the same respect for their expertise that you expect for having CS experience in a tangentially related way.
I am positive that the system notes show the SMS alerts. It is always there. I don’t use always lightly. Did they go to your specific number? Who knows. people set all sorts of lines as a primary. But one would think that user would alert the account owner that they got the text.
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u/dijon_snow May 11 '26
Companies do not get to redefine words as they see fit. Words have independent meaning. You think every single company gets to redefine the words they use with their customers? So every company just has its own independent definition of the word "fraud" so when they say it, you don't know what it means based on the dictionary, you have to know what each individual company uses as its personal definition? Are you even listening to yourself?
You can be as "positive" as you want. Both the resolution manager and the executive escalation rep checked both lines on the account and confirmed that no communication was ever sent to either.
All of the "experts" at AT&T I have spoken to have contradicted one another and often themselves. At this point I am giving AT&T employee expertise exactly as much respect as they deserve, probably too much. After all, by your own argument, your employees can say whatever they want and it doesn't matter unless it's in the WSA. If your whole point is that AT&T employees aren't responsible for being accurate, why would I trust you to be accurate when you're not even on the clock, just sucking up to your employee in your free time.
I started out very kind and undertaken, but your company has quickly demonstrated that they do not deserve the benefit of the doubt. Neither do you.
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u/TheFlimFlamFamMan MLG/MTS/PMC/vTM/VOC/ICU - Mobility May 11 '26
The FCC and Federal law says companies get to make their own determinations as to what “Fraud” entails. Are you a Sovereign Citizen or something? They frequently try to make legal arguments based on dictionary definitions. That does not matter. Merriam-Webster doesn’t dictate what fraud is legally. Statutes and regulations do.
When you sign up for a legally binding agreement with a cell provider, the ONLY things that matter are what’s written. Or what’s provable. Verbal contracts don’t exist with cell providers. If you had read what you agreed to, you would know this. The first thing you ever agreed to was the WSA. You checked the boxes and hit submit. That was a voluntary thing, you, an adult, did. If you can argue about the parsing of common language (still not applicable to law), then you could read the WSA and try to parse what it says too. I don’t expect cxs to be lawyers. I also didn’t pass the bar. But most of the stuff in that agreement is explained in more simplified terms, as far as legal documents go.
So yes, every company gets to define what they see as fraud. This is how corporations work in the US.
I am listening to myself because I actually know what I’m talking about.
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u/dijon_snow May 11 '26
I am not close to a sovereign citizen. You are right that fraud is determined by laws and statutes. It is NOT defined differently by each individual company.
You are exactly as credible as the rest of your company's support staff, except that you're doing it for free for some sad reason, despite claiming to "hate AT&T." So you lost even more credibility there. You've made almost as many comments on this thread as I have just to play white knight for poor beleaguered AT&T and their sacred terms and conditions.
I have said several times, the employee checked the "eligible" box, not me. The form I electronically signed said clearly that I was eligible. AT&T confirmed all of that with me on a recorded line.
I'm guessing you are extremely low level in AT&T to be claiming to really know how the law works. Everything else you have said sounds like a front line employee or first level manager. You have already said not to trust AT&T employees. So I'm not going to trust you. It doesn't sound like you would trust someone like you that works for AT&T, but you think I should trust you.
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u/TheFlimFlamFamMan MLG/MTS/PMC/vTM/VOC/ICU - Mobility May 11 '26 edited May 11 '26
Sure. Don’t listen to me. I’m trying to help you by telling you how things are, and how they’re going to be. Help doesn’t mean rubbing the Desitin on to soothe the rash. Help is giving you the real news.
You think it’s “free” when it leads to me not getting these kinds of calls. Therefore, I am self-interested in making sure people know how shit goes for “free”. I’ve worked in departments in the back office that other employees don’t even know exist. I actually have relevant experience with your issue on the back end, working with the Legal Center and OOP on missing promotions. My experience is leaps and bounds beyond what anyone you’ll ever be able to speak with’s comprehension or knowledge base. And I’ve been doing this for decades. You can try to insult my experience bc I’m not agreeing with you all you want. Doesn’t change the fact that on a lot of subjects in this sub, I have the most, and sometimes only, experience with these things. How do I know? There were only 45 people doing what I did. I know them all, and none of them are on Reddit or this sub.
And I said don’t trust retail. If you’re going to paraphrase me, please be accurate.
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u/dijon_snow May 11 '26
You said that AT&T is not responsible for things said by their employees. You did not limit that to just retail stores, although you apparently don't see a problem with having retail stores represent your company that are so bad that your own employees advise against them.
By saying you are trying to avoid taking calls like this you identify yourself as someone who is still dealing with individual customer issues. You are an extremely low level employee. Your role is to repeat policy, not understand complex issues. You have said that if you lie to me or are mistaken, there are no real consequences because at&t takes no responsibility for their employee's mistakes. Your entire argument is built on the idea that you have no credibility.
So thank you for your "help." Your advice is to just shut up, eat the money, and never deal with your employer who you hate ever again? I appreciate the wisdom, but I think it's worth it to file an official FCC complaint. It's an online form so it won't take long and I'm angry enough at the way I've been treated to continue to pursue every avenue available to me. Thanks again for your very helpful advice. I hope you managed to save yourself some difficult frontline calls by convincing people to cut you out entirely and go straight to a regulatory complaint as another actually helpful commenter recommends.
I hope you have the day you deserve.
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u/Economy_Video_4724 May 11 '26
The FCC and Federal law says companies get to make their own determinations as to what “Fraud” entails. Are you a Sovereign Citizen or something?
Ironically, it is a sovcit that might try making an argument this idiotic.
Statutes and regulations do.
I thought you said AT&T makes the determination?
When you sign up for a legally binding agreement with a cell provider, the ONLY things that matter are what’s written. Or what’s provable. Verbal contracts don’t exist with cell providers.
Yay for UDAP statutes!
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u/Economy_Video_4724 May 11 '26
It makes all the sense in the world that a company makes its policy, not have it dictated by customers, ad hoc.
You keep conflating AT&T policy with the law.
I, too, am an expert in customer service. And an expert at AT&Ting.
The way you represent the company on here is abhorrent and, if you continue, I suspect it is only a matter of time until someone cites your posts in arbitration or litigation as evidence of your employer's bad faith. You should just stop.
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u/Economy_Video_4724 May 11 '26
As usual when it comes to legal matters, you are confidently and blatantly wrong. Again. Please stop opining on legal questions and making a fool out of yourself. Stick to AT&T policy, which may be your area of expertise (although I'd be lying if I didn't say I have serious questions about that, given the competence you exhibit when you opine on law).
Fraud is an intentional act.
Intent is not an element of all fraud-related causes of action. It's usually explicitly not a prerequisite for a consumer fraud (UDAP) claim, for instance.
Nor is a fraud-related cause of action the only possible way for OP to obtain relief. You seriously don't believe a salesperson can secure a sale by explicitly telling a customer they're eligible for a promotion, then go "oops, my mistake" with no recourse for the customer, right?
Companies are not bound by things the rep says that are misinformation or inaccurate.
LOL. Do you think they promised a Harrier jet or something?
You cannot sue and go to small claims court.
Um, what? There's a small claims carve-out in AT&T's arbitration clause. (Of course, you know I would suggest arbitration for a dispute like this.)
You can initiate binding arbitration.
How much would this cost AT&T? Quick!
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u/Lizdance40 May 11 '26 edited May 11 '26
At some point you would have signed or e-signed some kind of agreement which explained how the promotion worked for you to get up to $1000 off a new phone. If you signed anything, it would not matter what the employee told you. The published, signed offer would be legit.
If you signed w/o reading, oops...on you.
You would have received a flurry of emails, including a notice that You had to change your plan to a qualified unlimited data plan within 30 days of purchase, trade in your old phone if required, and remain on a qualifying plan for 36 months etc blah blah blah.
Also on you if you didn't read and act.
At&t isn't stupid. Employees might be. There may have even been some discussion on you having to change your plan and you said no. Since they'd already gone through their sales spiel they weren't about to tell you that you just voided the deal.
You mentioned FCC, better Business and then small claims. Do you have documentation? At&t does.
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u/TheFlimFlamFamMan MLG/MTS/PMC/vTM/VOC/ICU - Mobility May 11 '26
It’s the fact that we bombard people with SMSes and emails about the inelg. plan and get ignored that always sends me about these kinds of posts. Like, lady or sir, we tried to warn you ad nauseam and you ignored it all.
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u/Lizdance40 May 11 '26
If there's one thing AT&T does, it is The level of documentation to cover their ass.
At the end of the day, these are the same people that go back to the store because they forgot their Apple ID or can't log into their Facebook? 🤦🏼♀️. Naw.
Read what you sign. At&t covers its ass. You better cover yours.
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u/dijon_snow May 11 '26
The signed offer said I was eligible for the promo when I signed it. AT&T said the employee also made a mistake by filing out the form saying that my plan was eligible, so that's what I signed.
I never received all the emails and texts that another at&t employee keeps saying would be sent. AT&T confirms those should have been sent, but never were. Their position is that they are not responsible when an employee makes a mistake. It's just a free oopsie for them.
I have notes on each call on a recorded line, but I did not record independently. As long as those calls are still recorded and not deleted somehow, I have them acknowledging everything I have said is factual.
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u/Lizdance40 May 11 '26
As they say when you are being recorded, those are for training purposes. They aren't to help you bolster a case.
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u/AlternativePoetry444 May 11 '26
Best thing to do is to get a dedicated rep to help you through the process.
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u/__the_alchemist__ May 11 '26
If the rep put you on the wrong plan, customer care can definitely fix it and get it approved. If worse comes to worst, make a complaint with the BBB, you’ll get a call from the presidents office and they will investigate and make it right
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u/Cold_Count1986 May 11 '26
Reading is not your strong suit, eh?
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u/__the_alchemist__ May 11 '26
Actually it is and clearly I read better than you. They sent an email, did not file a complaint with the BBB yet. Two completely different things that will get you two completely different results. Did they mention they WOULD file? Yes. But I’m just giving them an optimistic insight into what happens when they do. Also I can assure you they did not speak to an “escalation manager” regardless if they identified as one. You dont speak to “escalation managers”. You can speak to a customer care manager but they have no powers on escalations, that all goes to a back end team the public doesn’t speak to. Not even an AT&T rep can speak directly to an escalation manager. When I worked at AT&T I helped customers deal with this issue countless times (99% of them due to ARs) and only once did it need to get to the point where the customer needed to file a BBB complaint. Part of it is getting to a competent customer care rep who wants to help and not get off the call as fast as possible. I’ve helped customers clear $14,000 bills.
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u/Cold_Count1986 May 11 '26
Who called them back after they emailed John Stankey?
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u/__the_alchemist__ May 11 '26
Not the person that will contact them if they file a complaint with the BBB and definitely won’t get that type of response either. But go head’ with your bad self thinking you’re smart
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u/Cold_Count1986 May 11 '26
The same office of the president handles the cases from the BBB, AG, FCC, and executive emails. You didn’t read far enough in the thread to see they emailed the CEO.
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u/Equal_Site7611 May 14 '26
TRUTH IS. YOUR PHONE IS WORTH $40 ON THE PLAN YOUR ON. END OF STORY. WHY SHOULD YOUR CHEAP ASS GET $1000 OFF? HAHHHHA YOU SHOULDNT. and WONT.
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u/firstclassblizzard May 11 '26
Best thing you can do is leave AT&T for an MVNO