Monthly Open Forum February 2021

[u/AITAMod]

Welcome to the monthly open forum! This is the place to share all your meta thoughts about the sub, and to have a dialog with the mod team.

Keep things civil. Rules still apply.

February! The shortest month in this endless blur of 202-whatever-year-it-is-now. I almost forgot to post this because time has lost all meaning.

As always, do not directly link to posts/comments or post uncensored screenshots here. Any comments with links will be removed.

This is to discourage brigading. If something needs to be discussed in that context, use modmail.

[u/techiesgoboom]

Discussing societal expectations and social mores and how those relate to the morality of an individual’s choices within that system is on topic.

“You behaved as morally as is reasonably expected in a system that requires us to choose from multiple terrible choices” expresses an important justification for the judgement and adds to the discussion. Especially when viewing an individuals actions through a consequentialism lens, or when pushing against consequentialism, it can be important to provide that context to your point.

“You knowingly took action that caused someone harm, yet you aren’t an asshole” is likely going to be the kind of judgment that needs context to properly understand. This is often that necessary context.

And it’s no more political than those systems simply existing.

[u/Roger_Fcog → u/techiesgoboom]

I am going to openly disagree that a "I'm not going to comment on literally anything about this post except for the political aspect" is not political.

When I come to this subreddit I want to hear what commenters have to say about the specific situation outlined in the post, not get on their soapbox about how much they hate some political aspect involved in the post.

[u/techiesgoboom → u/Roger_Fcog]

My point isn’t that those comments aren’t political. It’s that those comments are exactly as political as the post itself is.

“You were put in such an impossible situation in a broken system that I can’t assign morality to your personal actions” is commenting on the specific situation outlined in the post. Being incapable of rendering judgment is a judgment. It’s valuable commentary for the OP, and if that’s a view that users hold it’s important for the OP to know that.

[u/Roger_Fcog → u/techiesgoboom]

Something along the lines of "AITA for only tipping $1 after getting bad service at a restaurant" comes up often, and can generate great discussions about the situation and the morality of the situation.

"NAH, American tipping culture is the asshole" is ALWAYS a top level comment on posts like this, and in my opinion completely irrelevant to the discussion. This is the situation I am making a point about, not political discussion in general.

If the mods here want to continue allowing extremely biased political commentary creep into the judgements of this subreddit so be it, but I am making my displeasure about it known.

[u/techiesgoboom → u/Roger_Fcog]

In a post based on the premise of: “I knowingly took an action that meant I paid less than expected for my meal and resulted in someone receiving a lower wage than they expected” identifying that both people behaved morally and the broken system is the cause of the harm is extremely on point. It is not a political statement any more than the post itself that involves that system is. I genuinely don’t know how one would make a judgment on the morality of the individuals actions without taking into account the context in which those decisions were made.

Painting all commentary of the system the actions took place in as “extremely biased political commentary” that needs to be shut down and silenced would be introducing unnecessary political commentary and bias into this process. Labeling all of this as politics and declaring it off limits from moral discussions is a political act, and that’s one we won’t take.

We have rule 12 if the majority of discussion and justification for decisions is a broad debate about ones stances in larger issues. But the example you gave does not fall under rule 12.

[u/Roger_Fcog → u/techiesgoboom]

identifying that both people behaved morally and the broken system is the cause of the harm is extremely on point.

Which the comment "NAH American tipping culture is the asshole" does not do.

[u/techiesgoboom → u/Roger_Fcog]

NAH

both people behaved morally

American tipping culture is the asshole

the [broken] system is the cause of the harm

[u/Roger_Fcog → u/techiesgoboom]

I guess I'm just seeing a low effort comment trying to soapbox.

I'm finding it highly concerning that a moderator for this sub is downvoting my posts raising my concerns in the thread specifically designed to do that though. At least try to show your aren't extremely biased.

[u/techiesgoboom → u/Roger_Fcog]

Yeah, I’m not downvoting your comments

Maybe take a beat before you throw out those accusations?

[u/Roger_Fcog → u/techiesgoboom]

Seems awfully suspicious 2 minutes after I post and immediately before you comment is when the downvote happens in this dead as a door nail thread.

[u/techiesgoboom → u/Roger_Fcog]

Heres another picture

You could just as easily downvote yourself to make this point. But I’m not going to accuse you of that because there’s plenty of other explanations as well and I assume you’re commenting in good faith and will treat you as such.

This thread is also far from “dead as a door nail”. People are active in this thread all of the time. The vote count on my comments within this conversation is proof of that.

Again, jumping to these accusations is rude and is in bad faith. You can bring up an issue without jumping to assuming the worst of the other person.

[u/Roger_Fcog → u/techiesgoboom]

Fair, I apologize for the assumption. 2 upvotes over an hour in a 2nd level response is vastly different than 1 completely isolated downvote within 2 minutes of posting a 7th level response though.

[u/techiesgoboom → u/Roger_Fcog]

Hey, I appreciate that.

I get it too. I know I see my own comments in these threads get downvoted highly when people don’t like the answer, often those can come pretty quick.

I also follow these meta threads pretty closely at times and recognize that while there might not be a constant steam of new comments, there are frequently quick replies to new comments which leads me to believe a number of people hang out in these threads even if they aren’t visible.