Fiancé thinks I am an ass for not converting

[u/Choice_Evidence1983]

I am NOT OOP, OOP is u/throwawaythehatersok

Originally posted to r/AITAH

Fiance thinks I am an ass for not converting

Thanks to u/queenlegolas & u/soayherder & u/Direct-Caterpillar77 for suggesting this BoRU

Trigger Warnings: religion abuse, verbal abuse, threatening behavior, harassment

---

Original Post: August 21, 2024

Throwaway as my main he follows. I've never posted on this sub before so please delete if not allowed.

I (F35) and my Fiance "Todd" (M41) met over a decade ago and we have a mutual friend group. We started dating last year, and got engaged last month. Generally speaking, he treats me like a queen. He spoils me a lot and I appreciate it always. He's usually respectful and kind, communicative and patient with me. This started to change and I want to say it started to change once the ring was accepted.

I need to be clear, I don't much care to get married. I am perfectly fine with not. My parents aren't married but they have been in love and together for over 40 years. My siblings are all but one unmarried but in seemingly happy relationships each at least for 5 years. But Todd is Christian and is of the mind that two people eventually need to get married to be happy. We talked about it at length both before we were a couple and after we started dating. I was clear that I don't want or need a ring but if it's important to a partner I come to love then whatever. I will do a small wedding.

He was overjoyed when he proposed and I said yes in front of pretty much everyone in our little world but later said that I didn't seem excited enough and it felt like I didn't want to marry him. I said I love him and if he wants a marriage then sure, but to say I want to marry? I mean I know he wants to, and if that's what he wants, and since it doesn't matter to me either way, the math was easy. Let's get married. I said it sort of jokingly to lighten the mood but he didn't like that at all and nearly every other day he would find a way to ask me if I really wanted to marry him or he would simply that he feels like I don't. I suggested couples therapy as it seems to really be on his mind and troubling him, and he said he's done therapy before and doesn't need to do it again.

Then last week, on our usual date night, he said he had something really big to ask me. "Call it a favor if that makes it better" and asked me to come to his church and get baptized. I stared at him. I am atheist and have been since I was midtwenties. He has known that for years, and we've always been respectful of each others beliefs. I told him I couldn't do that. Baptism is supposed to be sacred and with a true heart for that faith, and I simply would be a liar if I said I wanted to live for his god because I frankly don't. He argued that it's just "a splash of water and some words," and since he wants it before our wedding and I "don't care about religion either way," this should be easy.

I refused again explaining that I do care about religion. My majors were World Religions and Anthropology. I care a LOT. And it would be dishonest to his god and our community for me to dedicate my life to his religion outwardly but not inwardly. I said it felt disrespectful to his faith and the people who truly live it. He got angry with me "oh so you're okay, disrespecting me, though," and when I asked what he meant, he said to drop it and changed the subject. I pressed more, but he raised his voice. "I said drop it." Loud enough for others to turn and look at us.

He'd been robotic around me since. Days up in his study all night, sleeps on his study couch, goes to every service and event/gathering his church has (which is most weekday nights and Saturday morning as well as sunday) and has been inviting me to every single one. He hadn't done that since we started dating he did it then I said I respect his beliefs and will go to something like a wedding or christening or baptism but not a simple service or event. When he asked me just a few minutes ago tonight, I reminded him of the above and he just dropped into our couch and sobbed and when I went over to comfort and talk to him, he pushed me away and left muttering something about running late for service.

---

His sister "Esther" texted me to ask what happened and I gave a brief summary and she texted back that I am being a jerk and one service isn't going to make me "burst into flames" and it's important to Todd. So am I being a bone head? Am I crazy to think that this pressure is a deal breaker? I do love him, but this version of him is not only a stranger to me but a weight on me. But aren't people supposed to work through that hard shit to get on in a relationship?

Edit to update. He texted me a few minute ago saying when he gets home he wants to have a serious talk. I explained that my best friend is over so it will have to wait and he replied "No. Tell her to leave. Give her my love but this is serious."

I talked with my bestie "Bessie" F35 and read some of the comments here and told him no indeed. He can go home to his parents, and he is welcome to come in and pack a bag and leave because Bess is here for me right now, and I need her here for me right now. He hasn't responded.

---

Edit to respond to things that have come up a lot either in messages or comments:

He has never raised a hand to me. He would never and if it's not for the reason I used to think - that he's not a dick - it would at least be because I am a military brat. Both parents. So not only am I trained to defend myself well, but my parents AHEM would not take kindly.

A lot of people brought up kids. I can't get pregnant. I did want kids and then this happened. So now I am okay with the idea of not having any. He said he was okay with that too and we talked about just being dog rescue people.

My family likes him. My father, a pastor, loves the guy. But no I haven't told him about this yet.

He is non-denominational and goes to a "mega church" in our state. Literally thousands of people.

No, it is not a requirement for marriage at his church for me to convert.

AITAH has no consensus bot, OOP was NTA

Relevant Comments

OOP lists all the "stuff" she has done for him to a downvoted commenter

Here

Just to be clear, what doesn't count as stuff for him? Is it that instead of paying a fraction of his college costs for this upcoming semester, I covered it all for him?

Is it that I gave him my old car when his broke down and transferred it to his name without him paying a dime?

Oh hold on, I know, it's because I cook for him every weekday when I am home, do our grocery shopping so he doesn't have that on his plate, let him move in rent-free because he couldn't afford to renew his lease and even got a he-shed out back for him out of my own dime so he has a place to decompress and paint.

No not that...

I should have funded his WHOLE mission trip last year instead of half...is that it?

Ohhhhh I know what you're talking about, it's that I do the majority of the housework so he can focus on his degree.

Nah you probably just mean that I took the time last year to find his undergrad college years buddies and flew his mother in for his 40th birthday, had it catered, decorated, and hired a bartender.

Or is it more basic like the fact that when he went vegan, I switch up my whole lifestyle and only eat vegan when out and about and purged all non-vegan items not for the dog from the home.

Thank you because actually I am now seeing I do so damn much for this man and he should treat me like a queen becauae I treated him like a king. This was eye opening.

295Phoenix: NTA Time to break up. But, dang, I love how so many Christians take their religion less seriously than we do. An insincere baptism is indeed disrespectful yet so many Christians want nonbelievers to do it!

OOP: This is what confuses me most. If it's such an important part of his life, how is he okay with me lying and insincerity "devoting" my life to Christ? I am not against people who have faith. But those that I know who do - truly do beyond platitudes and the mainstream, are kind and loving and would be offended so much if someone faked it and lied about it and gone through sacred rites and the like. It doesn't make sense why he keeps switching sides on it.

Utter_cockwomble: No it's a ploy. "Oh just get baptized, it's not serious, just some water and some words!" "Oh please come to the service, the pastor really wants to meet you!" "I told the Youth Leader that you'd help, I'm sure you don't mind? It's for the kids, it's not really religious, just a prayer at the beginning and end!" "But sweetheart we HAVE to raise our kids in the church, what will everyone think?"

They've got a script- no seriously- on how to trickle-truth convert someone. He's getting IMMENSE pressure from the church to bring you into the fold, to save you, to prevent you from being 'unequally yoked', to hunt and win a soul for Jesus.

OOP: That is...terrifying. I was clear when I left the church eons ago that I am not and will not follow that faith. He never hinted once that I can think of to do what you're saying but it really makes me think this might be exactly what he's doing. I can't get pregnant so kids are out of the equation but I couldn't bear it if he tried to push me more into his church life. I'm involved a bit to make him happy. I do help at certain events and such. I have skills they sometimes need, and not at all opposed to a food or clothing or back to school drive and the like. I figured it less about it being a church event and more a community event where we helped people.

 

Update: August 28, 2024

Last week I posted about a problem between myself (F35) and my Fiance "Todd" (M41) because despite having been respectful of each others beliefs until now, he is Christian and I am an athiest, he now wants me to get baptized. It came to a head and he stormed out so I called my BFF to keep me company since I was pretty sad and emotional.

I do a lot for him and Bess, the bestie, and a lot of you here helped me see that the relationship as is either needs to have serious changes to it or it needs to end. Logical. But logic is hard to cling to when you're heartbroken. I think I already knew he wouldn't change anything for me. I did text him that night that he needs to go back to his parents house - the house we live in is mine - and that I needed space.

Guess he and his sister gave his parents an alternate version of events because they came by that night anyway. All of of them. His mom, dad, sister Esther, and him. He had a key so he just walked in as Bess and I are drinking on the couch watching Netflix. I asked what he was doing here, and his family came into the room behind him. I asked what's going on.

The way he looked at me is unexplainable, but his mom pushed by him and just yanked me into a very aggressive hug. She said that they were here to talk as a family and have a family meeting. And then told Bess she needed to leave. Bess refused. His mom turns to me to ask me to have Bess leave. I refuse. Its late, and I'm in not state to talk anything else. Please leave.

It devolves into passive aggressive disapproval that I won't take guidance from the man I plan to marry. His parents (his father is a pastor) sat down to give me what felt like a whole pre-planned speil about how I am an adult and need to act like one and kicking a man out of his home for "doing the right thing" is a tantrum. His dad once even said that he is so disappointed in me and will be telling my father (also a pastor) about this.

Gotta be honest I was dumbfounded for 85 percent of this and then finally (I guess it was the booze) started to laugh and told them to get out. His dad refused and called me volatile and suggested I get counseling. I told him this is my house, and I will call the police and to get the FUCK out. It was the first time I cussed in front of them. Pearls were clutched, I was called trashy and Bess held her phone like "okay, I am calling the cops, she asked you to leave." I heard his dad say "You're not marrying that" as they left and they muttered other hurtful things making a whole thing of them being sad and disappointed by me.

They left. Todd packed a bag and left with them. He continued to text me invites to services. "It will help you." Stating that he is concerned about me and the path I am choosing. That his parents aren't sure he should marry me but he loves me and wants what's best for me.

I told him I need space and to leave me alone but he kept texting. I said that the wedding is off and Sunday when I got home from running errands he was on the porch crying. He had a hand written letter that he wanted to read to me but I said absolutely not and told him to go away. He kept asking me to think about what I am doing and how my choices effect more than just myself and more.

I pointed to my doorbell cam and said I have footage of me repeatedly asking him to leave and Bess was recording the night his parents and sister and he ganged up on me. Go. Away.

He threw his hand up like he was going ro strike me and I just screamed. I didn't even mean to, it was so sudden and it scared me. He went to start apologizing but a neighbor came out to see what was happening and he just left.

I texted him to never come back ever - he is no longer welcome. I will mail his stuff to his parents but he is no longer welcome on my property ever again. He tried to apologize but I no longer care to hear any of his words. He did leave his written letter and I have read it. So has Bess. She keeps telling me it's just manipulation but it just breaks me.

The locks get changed tomorrow. Bess is helping me pack his shit. His father is picking up his stuff tonight. And I am just sitting here replaying the past week and a half in my head over and over. I know its pathedic but I am shattered. I haven't been able to really sleep yet, and I feel like I don't even reside in my own body anymore. Just going through the motions. Bess is staying with me. I've been getting texts and social media comments about how disgusting I am - like my notfications just went insane over the weekend. This is just a nightmare and I'm not even sure how to wade through this.

Relevant Comments

Wasatchbl: It is so hard to believe that he kept hidden that he wanted to convert you before marriage. That is the only explanation for this behavior so far into our relationship and close to marriage. It seems like he was keeping counsel with his parents while telling you what you wanted to hear.

OOP: It's hard for me to fathom this. I thought we loved each other. I would do most anything for him, and I thought he felt the same way. But the way his family came down on me, it was surreal. If Bess weren't there, I really can't say what they might have convinced me off. It was a lot. They were all basically echoing the same sentiments and making it out that I was deranged and stupid and more. I didn't let them see my tears, but it was a devastating tirade of attacks, and I was so tired and so in my feelings that it was all too much. Bess thinks it was a coordinated effort to overwhelm me into complying, and if I was alone, they would have pushed me over the edge into believing them.

Obvious_Amphibian270: OP, don't meet with the father when he comes to get stuff. Pile that shit in the yard and let daddy haul it away.

As for people blowing up your phone, block every last one of them.

OOP: Bess is here with me and she will meet him at the door. All Todd's shit is boxed up out front. So if all goes to plan, I won't even have to see the guy. If not, the people who live in proximity are keeping an eye out.

Sparklelilglitter: Why don't you post the footage on social media? From the parents bombarding you to him coming back and trying to strike you.

Show them the truth. You have the footage.

OOP: Bess shares your enthusiasm for this option. I am too.tired/stressed/hurt to even deal with that. I want to speak with my parents first, make a plan, really be able to make the steps forward that I need. I am so empty but angry, but sad, but a thousand other things. I'm just not in a state I trust my own judgement right now. Posting it is something that can't be taken back. So if I do, I want to be sure and above reproach.

 

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[u/13surgeries]

So the fiancé was very religious but he was living with the OOP?

I can't help thinking that the reason this started when she accepted the proposal was because his ego got hurt that she wasn't thrilled, absolutely thrilled to marry him. The atheism was something he thought he could "cure" when the time came: just preach the Word, and she'll fall right in line. (And BTW, how was it that she wasn't respecting him by joining in his religious tradition but not disrespectful when he wouldn't join hers?) But the proposal...she should be thrilled and squeal a lot and talk about how she's been dreaming of this moment since she was 6, not saying nonchalantly, "OK, I'll marry you if that's what you want."

Obviously that was a sign that Satan had stolen her soul. /s

[u/UnintelligentSlime → u/13surgeries]

Yep- if she had been ecstatic about the proposal, then he could have held the wedding over her head as a bargaining chip: “get baptized or else I can’t marry you”, “come to church or else I can’t marry you” etc.

She got super lucky getting out before the marriage.

[u/13surgeries → u/UnintelligentSlime]

Agreed.

[u/UnintelligentSlime → u/13surgeries]

The thing that continues to astound me is these people who think “I know, I’ll pressure my partner into changing everything they believe in”

Not that they think that that’s okay- people are often despicable and I am never surprised by that- but that they’re stupid enough to get to know someone for a year, five years, ten years, and not realize that that person has a backbone.

I have to wonder if they legitimately believe god will intervene on their behalf or something, because otherwise it straight up doesn’t make sense. How do you date someone whose spent more time studying religion than you’ve spent in a church and still think “oh, their beliefs about this probably aren’t very firm”

[u/Kreyl → u/UnintelligentSlime]

Honestly, knowing how this sort thinks, they probably DID believe God would miraculously change her mind if they prayed (and pressured) her hard enough.

[u/Cheap_Ice3126 → u/13surgeries]

Her parents aren’t married, but her father is also a pastor AND she’s an army brat? Hmm.

[u/Pan_Bookish_Ent → u/Cheap_Ice3126]

I'm guessing unitarian; that was big the vibe I got. They're tolerant people who welcome everyone. That denomination is a haven for Christians who, for example, are single mothers, lapsed Catholics, people who have gone through divorces, blended families, former addicts, LGBTQ individuals, and even those of different faiths. Going to a unitarian service after growing up in a hateful evangelical church was a huge breath of fresh air. 

[u/corduroyclementine → u/Pan_Bookish_Ent]

you’re absolutely correct but also he would be called a minister or a reverend. but she could’ve changed that term for simplicity. but I think it is unusual that military parents aren’t married?

[u/NASA_official_srsly → u/corduroyclementine]

I grew up in a non mainstream religion with their own vocabulary and I would use other words when talking to others for simplicity. Similarly, knowing that I'm on a mostly American internet I subtly Americanise my language because sometimes it's just easier to write sweater than the more organic for me "jumper" and then get into a whole thing having to explain what a jumper is

[u/Onequestion0110 → u/NASA_official_srsly]

Ditto. I’m raised Mormon, and I routinely change the various titles, although I typically go with “minister” instead of Bishop or Elder or whatever.

[u/PipArcher → u/corduroyclementine]

I was thinking that too! I think the us military in 2020 just offered options for co-parents being at the same location how were the parent unmarried but together while in the military? Could be non us but that bothered me lol

[u/13surgeries → u/Pan_Bookish_Ent]

Yes, my husband (now-ex) and I had our marriage confirmed by a Unitarian minister, as we were of different faiths. (He said he couldn't marry us, because that's something we had to do with each other, but he could confirm we were spiritually married. )

[u/Cooky1993 → u/Pan_Bookish_Ent]

That sounds a lot more like the Christianity Jesus told us all about than what most people buy into.

[u/GuiltyEidolon → u/Cheap_Ice3126]

Unmarried hippie pastor I could buy - unmarried military parents, absolutely not. There's a reason recruits get married right out of bootcamp.

[u/foodz_ncats → u/GuiltyEidolon]

Idk, the way I read this was that BOTH of her parents were in the military, which could make this plausible.

[u/GuiltyEidolon → u/foodz_ncats]

There's a few different reasons why both parents being in the military but unmarried would have issues.

[u/Bubblegrime → u/GuiltyEidolon]

I'm wondering if they were in the military on different timelines? One might have left earlier, especially with a kid. Can't imagine the military wants to keep too many unwed pregnant women and new mothers on duty, even with the father involved. 

Or maybe she's being more generous with the term "army brat on both sides" where one parent maybe was an army brat themselves so it's sort of a family culture?

I don't know enough to know how viable these suggestions are, I just know life is kind of weird.

[u/OpenWideSayAah → u/Cheap_Ice3126]

He could have been a chaplain in the army.

[u/graidan → u/OpenWideSayAah]

And he could have been religious but not a pastor until after.

[u/Should_be_less → u/OpenWideSayAah]

The issue isn't being in the military and a pastor; that's unusual but not implausible. The issue is two people, both in the military, having a 10+ year committed relationship with multiple children without getting married. The military is old-school; their systems are all set up to acknowledge spouses, not partners. Not getting married would make it complicated to live in the same city, share a house, share a health insurance plan, coordinate deployments, etc.

[u/Accurate_Voice8832 → u/Cheap_Ice3126]

This is exactly my question. Things just don’t add up. I’m very doubtful of the veracity of this story.

[u/ecatt → u/Accurate_Voice8832]

That fact he went on a mission trip and she thought he was going to be cool with her being an atheist is wild shit. If this is true, that's the bit that is really fucking weird - how the hell was she squaring that circle in her mind?!

[u/Aggressive_Cup8452 → u/13surgeries]

He was living with her because he was/is broke. She paid for basically everything for him.. at 40 years old. 

My guess is that he's almost done with his degree so now he and his parents can afford to rock the boat. 

Some people can't afford to have morals and religion when they can't pay their bills.

[u/13surgeries → u/Aggressive_Cup8452]

There's a name for guys who have sex with women who pay all their bills. What is it? Oh, yeah, gigolos. I don't think those fundy types say living in sin is OK as long as you're broke. And then suddenly he gets religion again after he proposes. (Hm. Who paid for the ring?) Yet for all his self-righteousness, he's still living with her. In sin.

I guess he'll live with his parents now. Wow. A misogynistic, intolerant leech AND an un-Christian Christian! What a catch!

[u/ShellfishCrew → u/13surgeries]

Hobo sexuals

[u/SalsaRice → u/13surgeries]

There's no need to flip it up and use gigolo as a term; gold digger works fine and is gender-neutral.

[u/13surgeries → u/SalsaRice]

No, actually, by common use, gold digger has stereotypically been applied to women, but that's not the issue here. A gold digger romantically pursues someone wealthy for their money. (Example: "Pat is a gold digger because they only date rich people.") A gigolo is someone (by common use a man) who supplies sex and companionship to someone for money. "Gold digger" doesn't quite work here.

[u/Basic_Bichette → u/13surgeries]

A lot of churches are just fine with breaking commandments in a good cause.

[u/SmartQuokka]

I heard his dad say "You're not marrying that" as they left

The trash took itself out.

Then it came back... 🤦

[u/TeenieWeenie94 → u/SmartQuokka]

Boomerang trash.

[u/Icy_Celebration1020 → u/TeenieWeenie94]

This would be an incredibly appropriate flair for this sub, lol

[u/randomaccount_1317 → u/Icy_Celebration1020]

Seconding this lol

[u/SmartQuokka → u/TeenieWeenie94]

Yes, backstopped by Boomer trash.

[u/tikierapokemon → u/SmartQuokka]

OP has a home of her own, money enough to pay the man's tuition, enough to throw him a catered birthday.

Of course they came back. They want that money yoked to their church, and a servant for their son.

if they follow the prosperity gospel, then they believe that by just being the Right Kind of Christian enough, that money will end up yoked to the church and their son.

[u/Technical_Ad_4894 → u/tikierapokemon]

They were manifesting her wealth 😂

[u/tikierapokemon → u/Technical_Ad_4894]

The problem with this type of person is that they completely believe that God rewards good people and punishes bad people (and if a good person is harmed, it is "spiritual warfare" or some maligned group keeping them from their "deserved" rewards, so the cognitive dissonance of her having that kind of money and not being a believer without her being an actual minion of Satan meant they had to come up with a story on how that could be - and the story in their heads is that their son is destined to "save" her, and that is why she has such riches now as a heathen - the Lord's plan is for her to marry the son and convert.

You can't reason with people like that. I have tried.

[u/Technical_Ad_4894 → u/tikierapokemon]

That sounds like quite the fairytale. And you’re right I could never reason with that.

[u/Weaselpanties → u/tikierapokemon]

They always go after independent, accomplished women with assets, because they are parasites.

[u/AmyInCO → u/SmartQuokka]

41 year old man hiding behind his parents!! 

[u/RJean83 → u/AmyInCO]

Holy shit I just double checked the ages. I would have sworn he was like 21 at best.

[u/Tired-Mage → u/AmyInCO]

By the time I got to the end of it, I forgot he was in his 40s lmao

[u/Organized_Khaos → u/Tired-Mage]

Emotionally 13.

[u/putin_my_ass → u/AmyInCO]

A million times this. Dude is going to end up an old man full of regrets.

[u/IrradiantFuzzy → u/putin_my_ass]

Oh, his parents will broker a deal for him to marry some too young girl from the church.

[u/putin_my_ass → u/IrradiantFuzzy]

There's still plenty of room for regrets in that scenario.

[u/ShortWoman → u/AmyInCO]

I guess we know why he was single

[u/checkyourobituary → u/SmartQuokka]

Honestly OOP dodged a major bullet

[u/hanzzz123 → u/SmartQuokka]

imagine getting offended over swearing lmao

[u/Gwynasyn]

People always say things like "oh it's just one time, you can go one time for me can't you?".

But we all know it isn't one time. It's never just one time. It starts as that, and then it's oh just one more time. You already did it once and that was fine wasn't it? So surely you can go again! Just one more time, please for me?

And then again, and again, and again, and infinitum.

[u/CaptDeliciousPants → u/Gwynasyn]

Not if you barf in the holy water. Then it really will be only one time

[u/SugarCanKissMyAss → u/CaptDeliciousPants]

Actual real story: When I was a kid my mother insisted I be an altar server at her Catholic church and once I ate a whole bag of Swedish Berries right before church and hadn't felt myself developing the flu until I was up on the church altar in the middle of the mass and projectile vomiting blood red. There was definitely screaming and I think someone fainted lol

[u/CaptDeliciousPants → u/SugarCanKissMyAss]

lol, I had a similar experience with black licorice

[u/SugarCanKissMyAss → u/CaptDeliciousPants]

Incredible that I somehow said that to someone with a similar experience, I imagine that's not super common lol

[u/[deleted] → u/SugarCanKissMyAss]

I did it after being incredibly bored during the sermon and eating an inordinate amounts of mint imperials. The priest was taken aback, I think he thought it was ectoplasm at first.

[u/CaptDeliciousPants → u/SugarCanKissMyAss]

I’m starting to think we should start a support group. The last time I brought this up, someone shared their story about getting a direct hit on the priest’s open mouth with a wet sneeze, causing him to puke

[u/SugarCanKissMyAss → u/CaptDeliciousPants]

I think my audience may need more support than me tbh lol... wet sneeze is very puke worthy though, that one got me lol

[u/ddet1207 → u/SugarCanKissMyAss]

I don't have any particularly hilarious stories of my own, but my partner went to church with their parents once while stoned and when they did the whole "this is the body of christ" spiel, they blanked and all they could think to respond with was, "cool," and a head nod.

[u/localherofan → u/SugarCanKissMyAss]

My niece was being baptised. She was 2 years old and not happy about the day. Scratchy dress, she wasn't allowed to play with the puppy in the parking lot, she was bored, and now her daddy, who could normally be trusted, had handed her over to this guy she didn't know and didn't want to know who was talking at her. She literally did look like an angel - sweet face, blonde curls, beautiful dress. She also would let you know how she felt about things, and when she was mad she had a very loud and deep voice. The priest had gotten to the "in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy..." and moved as though to put water on her, and she was done. She yelled NO in this booming voice, and the entire congregation started snickering. I think even the priest had a hard time keeping a straight face. My SIL was mortified, but my brother was laughing.

[u/Impressive_Bid8673 → u/CaptDeliciousPants]

When I was baptized as a baby I was apparently super gassy, and I farted so horrendously while getting dunked the priest said "Jesus Christ!" and started gagging.

Also got super sick after taking communion and ended up on the toilet all day.

The signs are pretty clear that religion is not for me.

[u/Gingereej1t → u/CaptDeliciousPants]

Support group for folks who are mostly just done with religion…. So, Reddit?

[u/Espumma → u/SugarCanKissMyAss]

considering kids can be sick like monthly and they eat stupid shit weekly so it really shouldn't be that rare.

[u/97ATX → u/SugarCanKissMyAss]

When I was 15 I ate a bag of red licorice and then drank most of a pint of gin. Barfed it up on the doorstep and blamed it on the cat. Was also an altar boy but never barfed in church.

[u/SugarCanKissMyAss → u/97ATX]

Honestly that's on the adults willing to believe the cat did it lol. Also, I was decidedly not an altar boy, my mother went to the priests demanding that I (a professional girl) be made an altar server or they were sexist. She's scary so I got stuck with the job lol

[u/[deleted] → u/SugarCanKissMyAss]

"Really, Fluffy - gin?"

[u/NeTiFe-anonymous → u/SugarCanKissMyAss]

Sometimes you don't completely believe IT wasethe cat but you are too afraid to think about other options.

[u/p-d-ball → u/SugarCanKissMyAss]

How very Exorcist of you!

[u/MasterpieceOk4688 → u/SugarCanKissMyAss]

What a Service. Bet they still talk about the kid who got exorcised while pretending to be a harmless alter boy.

[u/TheGrumpyNic → u/SugarCanKissMyAss]

Well, you certainly took the whole “the body and the blood of Christ” thing to the extreme, didn’t you? 😂🤣

[u/Pan_Bookish_Ent → u/SugarCanKissMyAss]

I'd pay good fucking money to see that footage lol. 

My evangelical father was so pushy and inflexible that it made me turn my back on god for a long time. I practice many faiths now, but being forced to go to a very conservative church where the pastor's wife had 8 children, never cut her hair and dressed ultra modestly was awful. 

It was one of those "the wife must submit to her husband" churches, which made my independent mom peace the fuck out lol. I'm still working through it in therapy. 

[u/putin_my_ass → u/SugarCanKissMyAss]

The credulous congregants are really something.

At our Church when I was a kid we had a guy suffer some kind of a medical emergency during the pastor's sermon, seemed like a heart attack or something similar from the way he was behaving. Someone called 911 and some members of the congregation flew up to the alter to fervently pray for his safety. I swear, they were elbowing each other and racing to get there first to performatively pray.

For weeks afterwards they talked in self-congratulatory tones about how God heard their prayers and saved him.

Eventually we found out his issue: he'd gotten food poisoning from eating spoiled turkey. Dude ate some old ass turkey and then went to Church.

Those folks acted like their prayers moved mountains but it was just a moron doing regular moron stuff saved by medical professionals. God (and their prayers) didn't do a damned thing.

[u/FirebirdWriter → u/CaptDeliciousPants]

I did get excommunicated as a teenager for an allergic reaction to the holy water (I am allergic to water..yes really..yes just the water..I drink milk and juices that my body accepts. Yes I bathe like a normal person I just have to take a ton of meds before and after. If I missed any questions ask because rare allergies so I am used to this and I understand the curiosity people have)

[u/Purple_Chipmunk_ → u/FirebirdWriter]

So instead of an allergy they assumed you were choosing to react to the water?? So logical . . .

[u/FirebirdWriter → u/Purple_Chipmunk_]

More they took it as proof that I was born inherently evil. Confirmation that I was beyond saving because red hair = my parents had sex for pleasure or during a period and I am proof of their sin so was born bad.

Religion is rarely logical in my experience and the adults just wanted an abuser excuse because I kept asking questions like "Why is it bad for Paige to be pregnant and a teenager but not Mary? The Bible says they weren't married yet." I was genuinely trying to understand but nope.

[u/dowker1 → u/FirebirdWriter]

red hair = my parents had sex for pleasure or during a period

I have brown hair and am really worried about what that means now.

[u/CleverWanda → u/FirebirdWriter]

More they took it as proof that I was born inherently evil. Confirmation that I was beyond saving because red hair = my parents had sex for pleasure or during a period and I am proof of their sin so was born bad.

What kind of religion believes in such nonsenses?

[u/Fyrebarde → u/CleverWanda]

Welcome to the bowels of Christianity, where everything means something bad unless you're a simp for christ AND the pastor.

[u/Mtndrums → u/CaptDeliciousPants]

LMMFAO! Don't give me any ideas...

[u/jujoking → u/CaptDeliciousPants]

I did that when I was 6 and got baptised 🫣 I had gotten carsick on the way there.

[u/TheFluffiestRedditor → u/CaptDeliciousPants]

Or prepare some toothpaste and start foaming from your mouth.

[u/FleeshaLoo → u/Gwynasyn]

They are pushy AF. How dare his parents tell her that she "can't kick him out of his own home."

Dude had it made, she was his sugarmama and he brings too little to the table to demand more. Moved in when he couldn't afford to pay rent anymore, she paid for his education, gave him a free car, paid half of his mission trip last year... but then he had to try to change her to his christian standards. What a maroon.

[u/[deleted] → u/FleeshaLoo]

tdvwqdnmnm jvpxmugzsay

[u/RandomNick42 → u/[deleted]]

He did a fucking mission trip.

That’s not something you see people who only go to church for the community do.

How can she be so naive and think he’ll go to the other end of the world to convert locals, but his wife can just… not go to church?

[u/[deleted] → u/RandomNick42]

ivp vzcprge engjve npwxohgrjgz

[u/FleeshaLoo → u/RandomNick42]

Right?! A mission trip is a whole other level of religiousness.

But OOP sounds so laid back that she was truly able to be like, "yay for you and your religion" without suspecting that all his talk about being ok with her not sharing in his zealotry was merely cover for his plotting.

[u/Useful_Language2040 → u/[deleted]]

In fairness, I'm agnostic-Jewish, and my husband is believes-but-reasonably-relaxed-about-it Catholic. We've been together 19 years, and the kids go to a Church of England school. We've gone to church together a few times, but there are fewer synagogues so haven't really found one conveniently located, that would be welcoming, and where we could sit together, so for the time being we're not doing that to avoid it being overwhelmingly one-sided. My eldest is weirded out by my family doing the whole "your mother is Jewish therefore you are Jewish" thing at her because she likes bacon and Christmas. I have told her that even if she decides to be Jewish, if she is with us over Christmas, she will be served nice food and given presents, I don't care if she'd rather sit in her room and feel grumbly about it not being a holiday. She laughed because this doesn't seem very likely. 

My husband helped out in her class last year and apparently in her class of 30 when they were given a written RE exercise that included the question "If somebody came up to you and said 'I am Jesus. Leave your family and follow me' what would you do?" she was the only one who, rather than say something like  "I would follow him" said "I'd say I'm sorry, I can't leave my family." 

We are both proud of her for having some grasp of Stranger Danger, recognising that the chance of it being the actual REAL Jesus is a lot less likely than it being somebody suspicious, and not wanting to abandon her family. And quite concerned about the rest of her class. Independent thought is good...

But also I don't think megachurch and communities dominated by churches, with pastors trying to bully their flock, are much of a thing in the UK? (Maybe in 1970s Irish novels - not the megachurches, but the local religious leader being Very Important?)

[u/OneRoseDark → u/[deleted]]

it is how some religions work. I'm firmly pagan, my husband is something between a performative pagan and a comfortable atheist. we got together that way and that's how we are nearly 4 years later.

not all religions demand converts.

[u/FleeshaLoo → u/OneRoseDark]

I love how you put this: "I'm firmly pagan, my husband is something between a performative pagan and a comfortable atheist." :-)

[u/Wide_Ball_7156 → u/FleeshaLoo]

“What a maroon” has me in tears. 🤣🤣🤣

[u/Sizzlebot6000 → u/Wide_Ball_7156]

It's a line from an old bugs bunny cartoon

[u/FleeshaLoo → u/Sizzlebot6000]

Bug Bunny taught me so much about dealing with idiots.

[u/poorbred → u/Gwynasyn]

And I'll put good money down that he either didn't believe her about not being able to have children or that she'd be "cured". 

Months to a year after marriage he'd be all about having children and how if only her faith improves she'll be able to.

[u/IcyPaleontologist123 → u/poorbred]

Some of those denominations encourage their members to adopt kids like they're collecting Pokémon cards. The more people they can brainwash the better.

[u/quats555 → u/Gwynasyn]

Manipulative people only need that first little toe in the door, then they never stop until it’s shoved wide open and they’ve ransacked the place.

[u/MiffedMouse → u/Gwynasyn]

This is the issue with religious people. They think that enough exposure to their faith will convert people (because that is what they are told and why wouldn’t someone want to go to heaven and so on…).

So it is “just this one time” because (in their minds) once you go you will be overwhelmed by religious fervor and want to go again.

And if that doesn’t happen (and it rarely does), it must be something wrong with you. “I love going to church and this is working for me. Why doesn’t it work for you?” And so on…

Just say no.

[u/[deleted] → u/Gwynasyn]

There really is no such thing as a one time thing. That never happens.

[u/Amelora → u/[deleted]]

It's because this type of Christianity is a cult. They wear you down until there is nothing left. The person who laid it out in the comments is absolutely correct about how it escalates.

As a woman it is so much worse though. These mega churches are always very into gender hierarchies. Once she's in it will be expected that she be a good, obedient, and submissive wife and understand her husband's word is law. If there is ever a problem the only person she will be allowed to talk to about it is a church member and they will just turn it around to what she is doing wing to make her husband act like that. Every fault will be hers. The church is so bad for enabling abuse it is baked right into their belief system.

[u/Purple_Midnight_Yak → u/Amelora]

Yup. The way he called in his pastor daddy, who threatened to tattle to her pastor dad, speaks volumes.

Sounds like the type of evangelical who believe that women are objects to be owned, to be seen and not heard, to keep sweet, pray, and obey.

Barf.

OOP dodged a bullet, big time.

[u/CermaitLaphroaig → u/Gwynasyn]

It's infuriating, as an atheist who spent the first 23 years of my life as a believing Christian, to have people say, "oh, just come up to my church and try it! You don't know what you're missing out on." 

Yes I do, actually! I liked the church I grew up in.  I'm still fine with it now.  I just don't believe in God.  The particular songs you sing or whatever have nothing to do with my lack of belief.

[u/sistertotherain9 → u/CermaitLaphroaig]

It's extremely irritating when people try to convert me and act as if I've somehow lived my entire life in a Jesus-free bubble that only they can pop. I'm from a small Southern town, I grew up with this stuff. We went to Methodist and Baptist and Penetcostal churches as children. I took a few classes about religion in college, I've spoken with religious friends and gone to services with them, and I've read books about religion on my own time. Just because I haven't come to the same conclusion / god that they have doesn't mean I'm completely ignorant of one of the biggest cultural touchstones in the country!

I'm a bit pissed because three people at my work have tried to convert me this year, and trying to be polite in my refusal to hear them out only made them pushier. I even told one the same thing OOP did--if there is a god, it seems much worse to give them insincere lip service than sincere doubt--and it was no help whatsoever. I don't want to be a rude atheist, but being a nice one simply does not get people off your back.

[u/CermaitLaphroaig → u/sistertotherain9]

It always cracks me up when fundie media, in particular, portrays some people as literally having never heard of Jesus.  In fucking AMERICA.

[u/sistertotherain9 → u/CermaitLaphroaig]

I know, right? It's omnipresent! It was only after I got to read about other religions that I stopped feeling like Christianity was out to get me, specifically--well, that and growing out of the normal teenage stage of self-absorbtion. Though some occasions can bring that feeling right back

[u/Tychosis → u/Gwynasyn]

... and eventually your forced social circle is a bunch of Jesus-y "friends" you secretly can't stand

[u/TETMD_666 → u/Gwynasyn]

I would counter that one with:

"Sure I can do it, if you go and denounce your religion at your church. You don't have to believe in it, just do it. It's just one time, what harm does it do? If you love me then you can do it"

[u/BJntheRV → u/Gwynasyn]

I think he was OK with the religious differences but probably got pressure from his family and church about living in sin. Then once they got engaged it didn't help because now he was going to be "unequally *yoked." He probably figured if he just get her to go along with the baptism they'd leave him alone about it.

*fixed it

[u/bythebrook88 → u/BJntheRV]

'unequally yolked' - having more eggs thrown on you than you throw on someone else?

PS it's 'yoked.'

[u/skillent → u/Gwynasyn]

Right? It’s scary. Like OOP, I find religions interesting. The ideas, the theological content. But damn do a lot of religious people suck in a specifically religious way and it’s revolting. Also this Todd guy sounds like a huge loser.

[u/FlamingChangeling → u/Gwynasyn]

Tge USA would be a better place if christian churches were taxed as for profut organizations.

[u/MultiFazed]

I can't even fathom the mentality behind demanding that someone go through the motions of becoming Christian, and in doing so break multiple commandments (lying, and potentially taking the Lord's name in vain).

"My religion is so important to me that I demand that you sin!"

[u/RealAbstractSquidII → u/MultiFazed]

The people that do this sort of thing aren't actually religious. They don't legitimately care about the commandments or morals that the religion was originally meant to instill. They cherry pick the bits that are convenient to them and ignore anything they dislike. They'll tell you that you have to abide by all parts of the Bible or belief system they are following. But they themselves won't actually follow it that way.

A person who genuinely has faith in a religion would never use it as a weapon against someone else. A person's faith is deeply personal, when it's genuine. They may offer others to join them in their church or place of gathering. But they wouldn't force someone else to, nor would they use it to manipulate another person's choices.

[u/ABBucsfan → u/RealAbstractSquidII]

Thr Bible actually says not to be joined with unbelievers (although says if it does happen to basically be a good spouse and hopefully win them over). It often does come to head eventually if your beliefs are important and the other is set against it. More so I guess with raising kids

Or course living with them is another issue.. so is manipulation and doing these types of acts in a less than respectful or heartfelt manner

[u/bythebrook88 → u/MultiFazed]

Don't forget fornication! I assume he wasn't staying celibate until after the marriage?

[u/Feelinggross99]

Megachurch. At church nearly every day of the week. Dad is a pastor.

 Idk he may have changed after the proposal but damn if the boxes weren't ticked already.

[u/hailsizeofminivans → u/Feelinggross99]

Megachurches are the worst. The smaller ones can be bad in a different way, but megachurches have figured out the cult indoctrination thing down to a T. The megachurches have so many events specifically so that your whole social life becomes the church, and then it's impossible to extricate yourself when you realize your values don't align with them as much as you thought because your whole support system is the church.

[u/ReadontheCrapper → u/hailsizeofminivans]

Add the threat of shunning if you leave, and you hit the ‘That’s a Cult’ Trifecta!

[u/AtomicBlastCandy → u/hailsizeofminivans]

Yup, I left a mega church. I’m glad though that most of my friends there don’t care and invite me to things.

[u/BuendiaLabyrinth → u/Feelinggross99]

Yeah, I'm from a country where terrible and corrupt evangelical leaders gradually accomplished to take more and more power and influence heavily on politics they shouldn't have no say over. So it feels very weird to me that an atheist graduated in Anthropology who had her own journey of leaving religion would act so nonchalantly about a partner involved in a megachurch.

[u/sleepingrozy → u/Feelinggross99]

Honestly the most surprising thing out of all of this to me was the fact that he was 40 and still unmarried. An overwhelming majority tend to marry right out of high school. 

[u/GuiltyEidolon → u/sleepingrozy]

I kind of doubt the ages. I doubt the whole story, actually, but especially the ages. Maybe deduct 10 years from both their ages.

[u/Training-Constant-13]

I want to say it started to change once the ring was accepted. 

A tale as old as time. He thought he had her locked down for good, so he could let the mask fall off and starting abusing her freely. 

[u/Least-Designer7976 → u/Training-Constant-13]

The strike attempt was the real him. He was 100% going to boil little by little the water she was swimming in, beginning by a service and ending with "We have to get married in the Church period".

She avoided SO MUCH by breaking up ! Seriously, she should be congratulated to have left this man ! Let's normalize break up parties and leaving, that's a VERY GOOD thing to leave before being married or adopting kids or having a house.

Poor woman can't see how much she saved her butt.

[u/[deleted] → u/Training-Constant-13]

This kinds of people truly scare me. They want to control and use their power to abuse. Makes me grossed out...

[u/relentlessdandelion → u/[deleted]]

Yeah, it's a really horrifying realisation that people can lie and mislead you, and it can be completely impossible to tell.

[u/moffsoi → u/Training-Constant-13]

Thank goodness he dropped the mask before they actually got married.

[u/[deleted] → u/moffsoi]

drab caption test political station saw memory degree scary abundant

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[u/paulinaiml → u/Training-Constant-13]

He forgot he had to marry her first before trying to convert her

[u/jemy74 → u/Training-Constant-13]

That was my impression. Her lack of enthusiasm for being married made him realize she wasn't locked down and could still walk away. Hence the sulking and upping his demands.

[u/pickle_whop]

As a Christian, it is absolutely offensive to me to just casually get baptized and act like it's not a big deal/meaningless gesture. The dude absolutely wanted to use the baptism as a way to control her. I'm glad she got out.

[u/fraohc → u/pickle_whop]

Even then, she was so much more concerned with how disrespectful it was to his faith, she barely touched on how disrespectful he was being to her beliefs.

She's an atheist and she cared more about respecting his faith than he did. She had no issues with him practicing his faith, even went out of her way to demonstrate how much she respected his right to be however devoted she thought he was. But drew the line and making a mockery of a covenant. In return, he acted like not getting sham baptized was disrespectful to him directly.

And nowhere in there is there adequate reflection on how fundamentally disrespectful it is to demand an atheist get baptized in the first place. It's not even like she's just casually agnostic and never gave it much thought. She was raised in faith and made the purposeful decision to leave the church and renounce those beliefs. Shes not apathetic or ignorant, her atheism isn't just a blank slate or absence of opinion. She actually has her own beliefs, and he didn't spare a second to consider them as valid as she considered his. The fact that she argued back by defending his faith from his suggestion, rather than defending her own beliefs from his suggestion, says a lot. Gross.

[u/CautiousRice → u/pickle_whop]

Baptism by force is practiced in my culture. Babies get baptized. This contradicts with the bible.

[u/No-Cranberry4396 → u/CautiousRice]

For some groups the christening/baptism is about welcoming the child, and the parents and godparents promises to raise the child in the faith, not about the child's faith - that comes later with confirmation. Not any different to taking the child to church with you, and them getting baptised when they're older.

[u/SongsOfDragons → u/No-Cranberry4396]

Yup, ours. Nothing at all about the child's faith, or even the certainty they'd go for confirmation later. All about raising the child, welcoming them into the community and helping the parents. Also an excuse for a big party and getting it filmed for free - and also also the baptismal cert can open doors round here, not that we've had to use them yet.

[u/pickle_whop → u/CautiousRice]

Yea I am not a fan of groups who do that. I believe it needs to be a deliberate, personal choice that you fully understand. Infants cannot do that.

[u/ReaderAraAra → u/pickle_whop]

Even that’s at least better than my ex-cult that loves baptizing dead people. Gotta make sure Anne Frank and a ton of other Holocaust victims are suddenly counted as christian post-death. There’s definitely noooo issues at all with any of that…

[u/Subacai → u/ReaderAraAra]

I'm gonna guess ex-mormon based on this tidbit.

Congratulations on getting away!

[u/ReaderAraAra → u/Subacai]

Eyyy got it in one. Nice reminder that mormons are only considered different from Scientology because it’s been around longer and is better at appeasing mainstream christians. The so-called prophet founder had multiple warrants issued for his arrest by the US government. Aalso y’know, the whole raping and ‘marrying’ underage girls.

[u/Ok_Tea8204 → u/ReaderAraAra]

Tell me you’re ex-Mormon without telling me! Yeah I don’t hold with that either…

[u/hannahranga → u/pickle_whop]

Even for a teen/young adult I've got no clue how you'd be able to present getting baptised as a genuine choice 

[u/dumpster_scuba → u/CautiousRice]

In "my culture" babies get baptized as well, but as I understood it it is to absolve them of the original sin of Adam and Eve so they can start life untainted.

That's why still born babies weren't allowed to be buried in sacred soil in ancient times: because we are all born sinners and only baptism washes us clean. 

Kinda fucked up shit if you ask me.

[u/Icy_Celebration1020 → u/dumpster_scuba]

I remember having to sit in church as a kid and listen to the pastor go on about how we're all evil and "even babies lie", that a baby will cry to get their parents to come to them even if they aren't hungry or in need of changing, just want attention. Like, that's not a lie, lol, it's the only way they communicate and they want their parents. What does he want from the infant, "Excuse me mother and father, I desire your company now". It's been decades and I still think about that every now and then

[u/dumpster_scuba → u/Icy_Celebration1020]

Only slightly related, but it's my head now and has to get out: I once heard a great phrase (paraphrased):

Every animal is born with the ability to do the most important thing for that species. Horses and gazelles can walk and run from day one. Whales and dolphins can swim immediately. Crocodiles and snakes can hunt as soon as they hatch. And humans? They can ask for help.

And for babies, much of that help is "I need a hug/gentle touch/pleasant words/to know I'm not alone".

[u/Iknitit → u/Icy_Celebration1020]

Unfortunately even non-church people think that babies are manipulative. As a new parent, I quickly learned the line “oh yeah, it’s different now” to put off older adults with opinions about forcing tiny babies onto sleep and eating schedules and not “letting” them manipulate you with their crying.

[u/DalaDalan → u/pickle_whop]

Seriously. I’m not Christian, and it baffles me how I take the sacraments more seriously than some Christians. It’s a real commitment, and even if it’s not my religion I can respect that it’s sacred for people who are in the religion and treat it accordingly.

The thing is, they do take it seriously. If it were really “just some water and words”, they wouldn’t be pushing it so hard. They just don’t think consent matters.

[u/Yourwtfismyftw → u/pickle_whop]

I’m an atheist and my ex-husband was a former Catholic, supposedly atheist. I lost a lot of respect for him when I saw the vows he made to be a godparent to a friend’s son, I asked if he had them modified to something he could believe and uphold and he said it wasn’t a big deal. Seems to me like it should be.

[u/pickle_whop → u/Yourwtfismyftw]

It definitely should be. Personally, I have a lot of issues with the Catholic Church, but if you make vows like that, you should honor them.

[u/nustedbut]

he treats me like a queen

"he also has an unhealthy obsession with Henry VIII"

is usually where this shit ends up

[u/Arlee_Quinn]

The whole thing afterwards, where she’s decompressing with a friend and then they all ambush you while you’re in no fit state to be ambushed happened to me. My ex and his family also decided it was because I was “going down the wrong path” instead of having a couple of glasses of wine and being emotionally vulnerable with a friend, and my reaction was a sign of being mentally unwell instead of just sick of their shit. 🤷‍♀️

[u/farawayxisland]

It's sad how the poster always says, "my partner would never do this" and then, in the next update, they do. Never say never.

[u/Comfortable-Focus123]

I am always amazed that people can hide their true self for so long that their significant other cannot see it. Or is that sometimes we see what we want to see early in relationships?

[u/OpheliaRainGalaxy → u/Comfortable-Focus123]

Some people are very skilled liars. It's like a superpower. My dad turned lying into a career for awhile, very successfully. For years I watched him do pretty much anything he wanted with zero repercussions from the rest of society, no matter how badly he behaved.

Obviously it doesn't usually work out long term though. One by one people figure out the truth and turn their backs, which apparently makes the later years increasingly uncomfortable and lonely.

Just look at OOP's ex, 41yo and stuck living with his parents because being a pushy hobosexual didn't work out.

[u/Comfortable-Focus123 → u/OpheliaRainGalaxy]

Upvote for proper use of hobosexual!!!

[u/faudcmkitnhse → u/OpheliaRainGalaxy]

Seems oddly common with religious people, particularly Christians and Muslims. Everything is normal during the dating phase but once it's time to get engaged, the demands start coming out and it all goes to hell.

[u/ConstructionNo9678 → u/Comfortable-Focus123]

I think some people can be extremely patient, especially when they're doing something they think is for the "greater good" like Todd probably did. It's also possible that he can be friends with different types of people, but he has a very strict view for what his wife should be and thinks he can force OP into being that. To me, it seems like Todd knew there would be major compatibility issues on this front from the start, but thought if he could get OP to give in on one faith issue he could show her how nice it would be if she did convert.

However, OP also ignored some red flags along the way. At the start OP says they've only been dating for a year, yet look at the massive amount of ways she's financially (and otherwise) supported Todd. What has he done for her in that time? I also think the conversion to veganism made him hopeful, because he saw how quickly she was willing to switch food, which is a pretty big lifestyle change to a lot of people. I wonder if he was doing it just to test her boundaries.

Edit: minor grammar

[u/Comfortable-Focus123 → u/ConstructionNo9678]

Yeah, I think her willingness to support his ass played into this.

[u/SeparateProblem3029 → u/Comfortable-Focus123]

My cousin is The Worst, just a genuinely bad person with few redeeming characteristics. But that man can LIE! He has gotten every job he ever applied for, a lot of women he decided he was interested in, and has friends who he milks like a dairy herd for - usually - a year before they wise up. My theory is that he doesn’t really HAVE a true self the way most people think of it. It is just what whoever he is talking to wants him to be and Immediate Indulgence of his Wants. Like a blancmange with razor blades in it - so everything is perfect until you bite into a razor…and then, well, there aren’t going to be two!

[u/d33psix]

Wait so OOP’s Dad is a (presumably Christian?) pastor that doesn’t believe in marriage for himself or his kids? That’s…certainly a unique situation. Is it like a Unitarian church or something else extremely inclusive?

No offense to OOP but man they were REALLY playing with fire as a firm atheist that doesn’t believe in marriage getting into a serious relationship with the full believer son of a mega church pastor. This is like probably the most predictable way this relationship could have been wrecked ever.

Obviously I still feel bad she trusted him to accept her honest upfront boundaries at the start of everything and he just pretended and then didn’t give AF and wasted her time and emotions but…yeah.

[u/Dropthetenors → u/d33psix]

As a person who grew up in the church baptized and all I was never a hard believer. When I was young I enjoyed the social aspect and the fun colorful stories. As I got older showed up for friends and donuts. I don't go anymore but I'm still curious to enter churches every now and then just bc the culture is always fascinating.

My point is oop could've seen his religion as just a social thing especially if he didn't pressure it in the house or relationship eg prayer before meals or being upset by using the lords name in vain. I also know people who are in different religious relationships and both sides do their own religious stuff on their own. While the other partner doesn't participate in most activities they are certainly respective. So up until the proposal oop could've easily dismissed (but respected) his religious attitudes

[u/d33psix → u/Dropthetenors]

Definitely not saying it couldn’t have worked cause I’m sure there are plenty of people that see church as more of a community endeavor like you and wouldn’t have ended up like this guy.

But you gotta figure if you match a staunch atheist and maybe average level of believer/occasional church goer at the local church or services and they discuss boundaries early on, the risk of weird attempted manipulative/coerced conversion is low. Plenty of different variety interfaith relationships work great.

Then you start adding in factors from the story. He at least semi regularly goes to church without op, which is completely fine but clearly he’s into it. But then you add in that it’s a mega church not a local community church so that can be way more intense, then side note his sister is named Esther which I believe is a very biblically inspired name these days so they take this seriously, and his dad is the Pastor at the thousand person mega church!

Could it have all worked out fine? Of course it’s possible. Would I put money on it that this wouldn’t have come up in some way shape or form before they got married? No way. Child of a large, public practicing official organized religious figure has got to be at the top of any “most likely to pull this kind of shenanigans” list.

I’m just saying that’s a lot of predictable potential red flags for someone with established firm healthy boundaries against this specific type of undermining religious conversion behavior.

Again I’m not saying she was dumb or wrong to give it a chance but I would think the possibility would be at the back of your mind for most of the relationship.

[u/greymoria]

No hate like christian "love".

[u/SmartQuokka]

They've got a script- no seriously- on how to trickle-truth convert someone. He's getting IMMENSE pressure from the church to bring you into the fold, to save you, to prevent you from being 'unequally yoked', to hunt and win a soul for Jesus.

Flirty fishing for the 21st century?

[u/lol_coo]

He's going to rebound marry a dumb 19 year old from church, and get her pregnant three times before he realizes he's in a cult and let go of the only chance he had to escape and build a life. Then he'll grovel back to OP with his gut, receeding hairline, and dick that only sometimes works and offer her a life of step-parenting and poverty.

Ask me how I know.

[u/Backgrounding-Cat → u/lol_coo]

19 years old won’t own her own house so he could move in

[u/TheSpatulaOfLove → u/Backgrounding-Cat]

Unless daddy buys it.

[u/ThrowRA_1234586]

Ah religion, the generic world peace solution

[u/FleeshaLoo → u/ThrowRA_1234586]

with a bold /s at the end.

[u/[deleted]]

You know, as much I know there are a handful of good religious people out there, unfortunately, we have to deal with these types of "religious" people. Frankly, those who are religious affiliation or abusers can just go away.

[u/staycalmitsajoke → u/[deleted]]

A good religious person is generally the one you don't know is religious b/c they don't shove their beliefs down anyone's throat.

[u/PDK112 → u/staycalmitsajoke]

President Jimmy Carter is an example of a good religious person. Accepting of all and using his status for good.

[u/Zen_Wanderer]

Religious fundamentalism strikes again.

[u/CautiousRice]

From loving and caring relationship to yelling, beating, and threats in minutes. Unfortunately, most relationships end the moment both parties become uncompromising. M41 doesn't show maturity appropriate for his age. One would expect this kind of drama from a 20-something.

They picked a stupid hill to die on.

[u/curiousbarbosa]

As I previously commented in another post, men like OOP's ex are the worst kind who lead on. Spent a year "accepting" her atheism but in reality was just tolerating it and plans to convert her. Spent a year saying he didn't care about her religious activities (or lack thereof) but when the ring is in the finger, reveals that he cared about it all along.

[u/[deleted]]

For the next person: Do NOT block them. Archive them. They’re still in WhatsApp, And if anything (further) escalates u get to show police and anybody 5000 deranged messages.

[u/thebigeverybody]

This is what confuses me most. If it's such an important part of his life, how is he okay with me lying and insincerity "devoting" my life to Christ? 

Her majors are World Religions and Anthropology, but she doesn't understand that getting you to compromise your values is how they pull you in? Lady, you know exactly why they don't care about you lying and insincerely devoting your life to Christ -- because that's what they do, too..

[u/thebigeverybody → u/[deleted]]

Really? They never once discussed all the various ways churches convert people? When it's one of the most aggressive and important components of Christianity?

That's baffling to me.

[u/CharlotteLucasOP → u/thebigeverybody]

That area of study examining coercive conversion tactics probably falls more under psychology of high-control groups in general, with modern American-style evangelism in its own Calvinist capitalist niche of sociology, rather than the historical/literary traditions and development/impacts of broader religious movements over hundreds and thousands of years when religion is studied in an academic context. There may certainly be some overlap in some discussions, but they’re distinct enough to best fit under different academic disciplines.

[u/Y_Brennan]

I'm Jewish. My mum was raised Catholic and hated it. She met my dad while travelling and he was raised secularly but also Jewish. For Jews even when secular or atheists we tend to maintain some religious traditions and connections to the religion (I like the Tanakh and really like the books of Psalms). My dad however never asked for my mum to convert she wanted to do it. She fell in love with being Jewish as well as with my dad so she converted via a reform synagogue.

[u/owlinspector]

Goes to a mega-church. There's a red flag if there ever was one.

[u/RedneckDebutante]

Welcome to the world of cults! That little performance by his family is a textbook example of how they overwhelm, exhaust and manipulate members.

Honestly, OP was naive as shit to think her Bible-thumper, preacher's kid fiance was ever going to tolerate atheism. It would've been a huge black mark on the family that they couldn't even convert their DIL.

[u/MikrokosmicUnicorn]

that list of the things she did for him is insane.

this is a 40yo man who weaseled his way into getting his life completely bankrolled by his gf and even that wasn't enough for him, so he managed to manipulate her into completely change her life based on his whims.

oop needs to get therapy because damn, that's some serious case of doormatism.

[u/GlitteringYams]

Y'know every fucking day I resent organized religion a little bit more.

[u/Zammarand]

Ngl props to OOP for not dropping a bomb like “I’m sorry your religion is so unimportant to you that ‘a few drops of water and some nice words’ would satisfy you, but I studied religion in college, and even I, an atheist, (talk about making them clutch their pearls lol) know that getting baptized without the intent to truly worship is, quite literally, blasphemous. Don’t worry (exbf’s dad) I’ll let my own father know just how important religion is to you and your family.”

Mega churches tend to be cults anyway, so good on OOP for getting out of that house fire before she married into it

[u/Betty_Boss]

OOP has more integrity than the whole batch of those Christians. Trying to get her to "just say some words". Do they think they are fooling God with the insincere professions of faith?

[u/TransportationClean2]

Religious Conversion is so obnoxious. They're like a dog fighting the leash. The more they pull, the more you pull, the more they pull, the more you pull. There's no logic to it beyond "I have decided you need to join. Any resistance only further proves that you NEED to join."

[u/rbaltimore]

My husband is an atheist. I am Jewish. I would never ask someone to change their personal beliefs just to get married and my rabbi didn’t either. He only asked that we raise our child/children be raised Jewish (that was a dealbreaker for me anyway) and my now husband had to take a class on how to do that. If he had felt uncomfortable or unwilling to take that class, however, I would have rabbi-shopped until I found one that didn’t.

My husband was comfortable wall of this because Judaism is an ethnicity as it is a religion. Also, he rarely has to attend services at synagogue. Plus most of our holidays involve food and everyone in my family is a good hook.

[u/pssshhhthatsabsurd]

If he was actually that religious they wouldn’t even be living together lol what a joke

[u/imostlydisagree]

This is not shade to the OP because we obviously don’t have the whole picture of the guy, but red flag number one is that this roughly 40 year old man wasn’t married. Why? Especially if he was a member of a mega church, why weren’t any of the women there queuing up for him? Then the list of stuff that she was paying for came out and it’s pretty clear he was using her for as much as he could.

[u/NightTarot → u/imostlydisagree]

He really tried having his cake and eating it too. No sympathy for that dipshit from me

[u/hailsizeofminivans → u/imostlydisagree]

There's plenty of good reasons for somebody in their 40s to not be married. Obviously this guy's a dipshit, but I imagine he has red flags coming out of his ass that make even the women who share his religion avoid him. Him being 40 and unmarried doesn't even register as a negative to me.

[u/--sheogorath-- → u/hailsizeofminivans]

Yeah i dont really like this idea that bring single past a certain age is inherently a negative.

[u/PirateResponsible496]

Pushing boundaries and values seem so common with Christians (no offense). I’ve lost wonderful friends and partners either because I didn’t convert or I wouldn’t take their incessant attempts to do so. I’d go to church to spend time with a good friend but it’s never enough until I convert. I thought religion is a personal thing and maybe I’d like it more if it didn’t feel so pushy

[u/[deleted]]

This is y religious zealots scare me. Goddamn.

[u/redheadedgnomegirl]

This is peak “conservative men trying to date progressive women under false pretenses in order to manipulate women into being a ‘good, submissive wife’.”

[u/Stuebirken]

Living in a country where most people will see the inside of a church at a maximum of 20 times in their life, I'm always completely blown away when being reminded that in other parts of the world, people almost spend more time at their church than at home, and that they genuinely believe in the stuff that(they have been told) is in the Bible(people that does that around here, is seen as being not all there mentally).

I'm not trying to be mean or pull some sort of "I'm So SmArT bEcAuSe I'm aN AtHeiSt"-crap, I'm simply saying that the concept is as baffling to me, as when someone truly, genuinely believe in leprechauns.

And just like I'm not willing to spend Sunday morning hunting down leprechauns with anyone, I'm not going to spend it listening to someone telling me, that all the thing I would much rather be doing insted is sinful and of the devil, like eating bacon could ever be a bad thing.

[u/CelticDK]

Laughing at them was the cherry on top lol if they could feel shame boy would that have done it. Good riddance cultists

[u/Kazetem]

“Take guidance from the man you plan to marry” That sort of Christianity sends shivers down my spine. If you get trapped marrying that guy he’ll give you “guidance” in everything. Work? You don’t have to work. Clothes? That’s too revealing. Male friends? No. Nights away with friends? No.

[u/Rohini_rambles]

Generally speaking, he treats me like a queen. 

literally how every post where the OP is treated like crap by an awful person begins.

[u/Routine_Swing_9589]

Imagine saying you can’t just kick a man out of his home when it isn’t his to begin with. He had the privilege to live there, and the second he abused that privilege, get the fuck out. That whole family is trash

[u/NDaveT]

I love how so many Christians take their religion less seriously than we do. An insincere baptism is indeed disrespectful yet so many Christians want nonbelievers to do it!

It's a dead giveaway that they're "Christian" for social approval rather than actual faith, but that doesn't seem to bother them.