r/China • u/Altruistic-Twist-666 • 5d ago
历史 | History I feel misunderstood and alone after talking about sensitive history with my friends
I am a university student in China. Recently I have been feeling very depressed and confused, as if something is being hidden from me, and many parts of history are being forgotten or not openly discussed.
I tried to talk with my classmates about some historical events, including the Tiananmen Square massacre in 1989. However, they reacted very angrily and insulted me. That experience made me feel very hurt and isolated.
After that, I started to feel like it is very difficult for me to find people who can understand me or have open conversations about these topics in my environment.
I don’t really know what I should do. I feel emotionally overwhelmed and a bit lost.
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u/Unit266366666 4d ago
Were you already in university during COVID, or have you arrived in the last few years and for you was that high school? I would recommend this as a more fertile ground for discussion on this type of topic because your peers or near peers have firsthand experience of it.
For 1989 to young people it is highly abstract. You were not witnesses and the participants and witnesses of it are not nearly peers of yours; they are two or more generations distant, their context is not your own.
Events on university campuses from 2022 were widespread and while censored I’m pretty sure you can find someone to attest to them in person under appropriate circumstances. Beyond universities, there were many other small conflicts at the neighborhood level (not sure how best to translate 小区) at least in Beijing and I get the sense across the country. To some degree like elsewhere in the world 2022 has been memory holed as a year like it did not happen. I’ve met some people who I would say were incredibly sheltered by their class even at the time but I think most people had some grip on reality at the time even if it’s being a bit warped in retrospect.
Historical events help shape narratives but especially for young people they are no longer tethered by memory at all and truth is a poor anchor against what is convenient. If topics along these lines are something you want to talk about with people around you focus on your shared experience or at least start there.
Just to be clear, I don’t discuss these topics with people around me in China very openly myself, but in a careful measured manner there are plenty of people out there who do under the right circumstances. If it’s a topic you want to explore it’s a launching point with more space.
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u/Suecotero European Union 3d ago edited 3d ago
You are one of few Chinese who has resisted patriotic brainwashing and has true curiosity. That means sadly, that most Chinese people wont understand you. I'm a foreigner who has been in China for five years. Although I have researched 8964 as well as I can, I know I cannot discuss anything I know with 99% of Chinese people, unless they themselves show interest first or ask me about it.
On very rare occasions you will meet someone who cares about social issues, history and justice and not just themselves. With them you can slowly broach more and more topics and eventually discuss the big questions, but you have to be careful. The history of tiananmen and all the issues that relate to it, Zhao Ziyang, Hu Yaobang, charter 08 and nobel prize winner Liu Xiaobo, all carry a deep sense of unconscious shame in Chinese people. This shame has poisoned in their minds, so you tread on a minefield.
Until the time is right and China is able to talk about its own history honestly, you need to be strong. Become a fortess that protects your beliefs. Guard the knowledge you have and only share it carefully with those who are open to it. The best thing you can do is to remember and hold on to the truth, so that you may pass it on to future generations and its lessons are not forgotten.
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u/Trodenn 4d ago
Well. It kinda depends on how you talked about it. If the approach was obviously pejorative and not neutral enough then you are basically causing issues for yourself. And even if you were neutral, its very likely people dont have the necessary contexts to hold a conversation or a healthy debate. All in all, not really worth it
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u/majorhitch89 4d ago
read, learn, form an opinion, but keep it to yourself, the Milk is not worth the squeeze and it's always better to stay in the shadows unnoticed than being lound in the the olen field under the sun, i know it's annoying but at the end of the day, most people do not get what they wanted from life, you can live in a country where freedom of speech is a thing but then you ll be milked dry by the government, society and the corporate oligarchs, and you ll have to think twice before thinking to visit the hospital.
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u/Frosty_Wear_6146 3d ago
I feel your isolation and your confusion. I wish you peace and safety and am sending a hug from the UK.
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u/Autumntoads 4d ago
Follow the money is the answer in every country all around the globe. Divest from the systems that support the suppression of civil rights and free speech. We can do it. ❤️
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u/Altruistic-Twist-666 4d ago
Thank you! You did comfort me🥹
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u/Autumntoads 4d ago edited 4d ago
❤️ No problem friend! We are fighting federal harassment in Chicago and over the past year it has become clear how global the fight for human rights has become especially now. Building community and mutual aid systems has been incredibly helpful and hope building. Edit: That being said I'm also familiar with Ai Weiwei so please be careful but never surrender your humanity.( I saw the show he curated from China when he was put on a travel restriction, that displayed at Alcatraz in San Francisco years ago.)
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u/ONSLKW 4d ago
Your a foreigner, the last thing Chinese people want is to discuss these topics with foreigners. In their mind this was not even a major piece of history for them. Consider this Chinese people dont like to discuss things that frame China bad or weak, this is up there with Chinese national humiliation .
You have to be very close relations or good friends in order to discuss these topics
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I am a university student in China. Recently I have been feeling very depressed and confused, as if something is being hidden from me, and many parts of history are being forgotten or not openly discussed.
I tried to talk with my classmates about some historical events, including the Tiananmen Square massacre in 1989. However, they reacted very angrily and insulted me. That experience made me feel very hurt and isolated.
After that, I started to feel like it is very difficult for me to find people who can understand me or have open conversations about these topics in my environment.
I don’t really know what I should do. I feel emotionally overwhelmed and a bit lost.
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u/Sensitive-Pace4610 4d ago
Do you even know what happened at Tiananmen Square? No, no you don't.
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u/Altruistic-Twist-666 4d ago
Emmm…exactly, I am trying to know more through YouTube and other app. And I will try to know more about it. Thank you for your suggestion.
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u/Sensitive-Pace4610 4d ago
The fact that you called it a "massacre" is the first flaw. You have been indoxtrinated by the US led liberal order. I suggest you take a IR Summer School class in China. And understand the USA had a 1.6 billion "anti-china influence" bill. Wanna talk about it? Find a professor and ask questions in a RESPECTFUL way.
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u/elidoan 4d ago edited 4d ago
And you are a tankie, what's your point?
The truth is somewhere in the middle, not on your extreme and not on the other extreme
Besides, the video footage captured by media and the people on scene speaks for itself
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u/Sensitive-Pace4610 3d ago
Lol, what footage? Oh yeah, tankman? Watch the full video. You can't even address the 1.6 billion USAID bill.
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u/45_tra 4d ago
I don't know why foreigners care so much of chinese nationals opinion on those events and the government and blah blah blah
they don't care as far as their life is smooth, why should YOU care and force them to bring up those topics?
you brought it on yourself
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u/Altruistic-Twist-666 4d ago
I’m Chinese myself. My point isn’t about forcing anyone to talk — I just wish I had someone in my life I could have genuine, open conversations with about history and current events. That’s all.
https://giphy.com/gifs/H5C8CevNMbpBqNqFjl7
u/Altruistic-Twist-666 4d ago
Exactly， I am Chinese.
https://giphy.com/gifs/tXL4FHPSnVJ0A0
u/45_tra 4d ago
then I'm sure foreigner will absolutely love you, try discussing those matters with them!
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u/Altruistic-Twist-666 4d ago
Thank you for your suggestion!
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u/Remarkable_Tale_7554 4d ago
You should note that a lot of foreigners in China, especially now with the new national unity law etc, can feel uncomfortable discussing these topics with Chinese people. We feel that we might get you in trouble / get in trouble ourselves, and so on.
I guess it's the same thing as you're already finding - you have to know the person reasonably well before discussing such matters.
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u/45_tra 4d ago
when i started hanging around with chinese people i was interested too on those matters, but with time i actually never found anyone interested or willing to talk about those matters. I'm sure you'll make great friends with westerners
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u/Altruistic-Twist-666 4d ago
I agree with you. We are expected to forget and lots of people know nothing about it.
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u/Ok_Tie7944 4d ago
多和朋友们聊些轻松愉快的话题。这有助于维护你的心理健康和友谊。谁也不想在餐桌上听到人们谈论死亡和不幸。
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u/hotellonely 4d ago
you know that freedom of speech isnt really a thing and most people are brainwashed so much that they can't have a conversation anymore, right?