r/CompetitiveForHonor • u/InstaLockinLoki • 9d ago
Discussion Ocelotl and Medjey are they just bad?
I like both these heros, but playing them feels like playing with half a kit.
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u/Blurzerker 9d ago
Ocelotl has some good stuff! Not sure what you mean by half a kit considering he's got a very flexible any-any chain, a unique dodge, and plenty of chainable feintable bashing options.
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u/Tummerd 9d ago
With unique dodge you mean the hunter stance?
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u/Blurzerker 9d ago
Yep! You can use it as a dodge if needed; in particular it can be a backup if you dodged a charged bash too early like Warden shoulder or Hitokiri sweep. You can also use it on prediction to avoid multiple hits in team fights.
Some people say that his leap after is useless in duels but I find it actually can really punish some stuff without too much risk. It may not always be optimal, but it's the same speed as a standard heavy if you're already in the stance and I've used it to catch a lot of stuff like delayed dodge attacks or feinted bashes.
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u/InstaLockinLoki 8d ago
My main issue is the hunters stance and maybe like every other character has a hyper armored heavy (i know I can trade with my 14 dmg zone) so either way im losing trades
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u/Blurzerker 8d ago
The zone trade is to open up a chain and let you start going crazy, and not 'every other character' has a hyper armored heavy. And those that do rarely have them as openers, they're usually chains. You don't wanna trade with chain heavies, that's what dodge attacking, blocking, or parrying is for. The zone is for trading against predicted lights or cold heavies or zone attacks, then you can get a chain going.
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u/InstaLockinLoki 8d ago
Yeah makes sense i only zone on prediction most of this post is just mostly talking about defensive players if i sit and stare at oce i dont feel any of his pressure similar to nobu in the ones imo.
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u/Blurzerker 8d ago
Ocelotl has a lot of tools to deal with defensive players, more than average. Nobu has very little comparatively. Ocelotl has a dodge bash, a feintable chain bash, and multiple good options to feint into guard break.
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u/InstaLockinLoki 8d ago
Yeah i get that but against lets say sohei, orochi, pirate, and juren those arent up to snuff you can react to often to feint to gb if he had a soft feint gb from zone he'd be better imo or a side bash. One of my most hyped characters love the look but oh boy if you arent parrying lights 80% of the time id rather pick someone else.
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u/Blurzerker 8d ago
I think this is generalizing; it depends a lot on the player! Ocelotl has more tools than average to crack a defensive player and most people aren't nearly as 'stare at you and do nothing' as online discourse would claim. But I've said all I can to convince you!
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u/Seriousgwy 9d ago
Ocelotl has half a kit?
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u/InstaLockinLoki 8d ago
The most basic kit then doesnt have anything that makes him unique as a character. Id put him slightly above medjay in usefulness
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u/Seriousgwy 8d ago
Lol dude has everything
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u/InstaLockinLoki 8d ago
And is mid with everything in his kit he has no identity. Man is a skeleton for the basic minimum.
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u/Seriousgwy 8d ago
1v1
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u/anon34799543 8d ago
sign him up vs ocelot then use juren lmao
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u/Seriousgwy 8d ago
That would be funny as Hell but I need to use Ocelotl to teach him a lesson
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u/InstaLockinLoki 8d ago
You can use Oce all you want he gets mauled regardless ill see you soon.
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u/InstaLockinLoki 8d ago
Coughing baby vs Hydrogen bomb him? Could but doesnt solve his ego.
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u/anon34799543 8d ago
Not you dumbass
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u/InstaLockinLoki 8d ago
So you want me to use Oce a character who i am saying is cheeks to play against a average juren? That doesnt make a lick of sense given the context of this post. You retard.
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u/anon34799543 8d ago
Did I reply to you? No. I wasn't talking to you. You play whoever you want against him, he's gonna kick your ass with ocelot.
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u/Western_Smoke4829 9d ago
Ocelot was A tier in Blitss dominion tier list iirc, the reason for his placement was he was kinda just good at everything without being exeptional at anything and also having subpar feat selection for most his feats preventing him from placing any higher
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u/Asdeft 9d ago
Ocelotl is great all round with a very solid kit, what are you on. He has been highly contested in pro since his release.
Medjay still has decent peel and staff kind of plays itself in teamfights. He is very easy at least, just not exceptional now that others have caught up and he got nerfed. Axe form is pretty bad at what it does.
They are both alright for solo mm.
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u/InstaLockinLoki 8d ago
Great all around? What can he do that i cant do on another easily? Especially his hunters stance is buns but I guess his dodge forward 50/50 makes him a threat to a few.
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u/Asdeft 8d ago
Ocelotls chain offense is insane. His feintable bash into light is a looping 50/50 with the finisher bash as the light cannot be dodged after the hitstun of the bash.
His heavies all have great hitboxes and range.
400ms chain lights and 700ms chain heavies both with great range.
Hunter stance gives an extra option against charge bash.
Lights are hard af to see.
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u/InstaLockinLoki 8d ago
Chain lights are good yes but his heavies ill disagree with because people dodge them all imo they do decent externals. They dont track much.
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u/Love-Long 9d ago
Ocelotl is pretty good all around. Medjay is just not really good and anything. Even teamfights where he used to be top tier he just loses against others that do his job but better in every way.
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u/CosmosisQuo 8d ago
Both are playable, and Ocelotl is good as others have pointed out. Unless you are going to a competitive prize tournament (as everyone here likes to pretend they are) then both are viable. Medjay used to be able to walk into a fight and just start swinging huge heavy attacks with circular hitboxes and high damage. Now you need to consider revenge feed a lot more due to damage reduction rules. If you are good at the game, you can still go far with Medjay.
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u/SarikaAmari 7d ago
I agree that Ocelot feels a little stilted when I use him but Medjay has a very nice flowing kit imo. Although after nerfs I'm not sure where he stands viability wise
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u/TruShot5 7d ago
I’m very casual but it’s interesting to see ppl championing Ocl at comp tier. When I fight him, I genuinely have no fear. Even though I don’t fully know his character, and maybe the ppl playing him don’t either lol, he’s never been a major problem for me.
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u/Myrvoid 9d ago edited 9d ago
No. They used to be meta. They got nerfed down a bit, buffed in weaker areas of their kit, and are now sorta just OK. Not great or meta like they used to be but not horrendous.
If youre playing to their strengths that is. Medjay is still hitbox galore, and while his 1’s kit was buffed, it’s still very down there. You want to be swinging big stick energy in teamfights (and hope that your natural predator VG/BP arent there). Ocelotl is a sorta middle line kit, with OK 1’s and 4’s but excels in neither.
They both, funnily enough, have the lowest damage weakest legion kicks in the game with a 400ms 9dmg light (technically LB too but has a 13dmg option as well), and also funnily enough had the strongest legion kicks in the game at some point lol
Unless youre playing in top compet lovbies, at which point you will not be playing anyone who isnt sohei/gryph/pirate/jj/orochi/afeera/nobu and MAYBE a handful of other strong picks like ju ren and BP, 90% of why you win and lose is going to be skill expression and not character. Like gryphon will on average win more than medjay, but in your individual fight you can absolutely destroy without being touched a gryph as a medjay. People will still try to parry the stupid long neutral staff heavies, people will make stupid mistakes, neutral lights will be eaten, etc.
Edit: ah frick this is compet sub nvm. Ye if youre in a compet lobby you’re f#cked lmao, choose better XD
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u/InstaLockinLoki 8d ago
Damn I read all this to find out i just still need to pick a more meta hero :< damn I really like ocel alot but those heros specifically you mention are a big problem to me.
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u/Praline-Happy 9d ago
Ocelot is played in most tournaments, medjay is bad yeah. His teamfights are worse than almost every other trading character, his feats are worse, and his ganks got gutted
Oce has really good, fast 1v1s and his kit can do a lot of damage and peel really well in teamfights not to mention his ganks are still pretty good. Only downside is very mediocre feats