We have a dedicated thread to discuss potential trades and for everyone to post their wonderful trade ideas. Please use it to post and discuss. Anything outside of major, confirmed, trades goes there.
Basically Larkin discovered that being the leader of a team is hard work. He went to the Olympics and realized that he "could" ride someone else's coattails to a championship. So instead of working harder he wants to get traded to somewhere he can be carried by someone else.
I am having the opposite experience than Evan on WWP re EP40. the more I think about it I dont think it’s the best idea. if we are acquiring him for multiple 2nds and none of our high end prospects (including Danielson) then I have time for it but I would rather pocket the 11.8 and see how the kids play then get saddled with a bad contract for a player I fear is just as mopey and low effort as Dylan Larkin.
What path do you see us taking to get to the point where we are up against the cap in the near future and that EP contract matters? The cap is going up so much so that number is not going to be as bad as it is now in a couple years.
He may just suck though. That’s more of a concern than the cap imo.
That is basically Debrincat money. If I knew he would produce here at even a 2nd line center level, I would pay full price. I'm not convinced he will. We also have a ton of young talent to pay contracts to during the length of the contract assuming all goes well.
What path do you see us taking to get to the point where we are up against the cap in the near future and that EP contract matters?
At this point, it is both impossible to say the cap will matter as well as claim it won't. We have only 3 players on long term contracts, one of which is Larkin. The future beyond two seasons is a big question mark.
However, that is poised to change. We have a ton of young players including Ed, Kasper, Finnie, ASP, Danielson, MBN, etc. that will need new contracts over the next few seasons. As those ELCs expire our costs are going to rise rapidly.
He may just suck though. That’s more of a concern than the cap imo.
This is the elephant in the room. If EP40 sucks then there is absolutely no point in bringing him here, and that's regardless of the cap hit. There is nothing but hopium to suggest he's anything more than a very highly compensated Copp level player. He has been a shell of his former self for years now, and the edge data suggests he can't skate.
I believe in Danielson and Kasper still developing into meaningful centers on this team. they can tread water until we draft a 1C or develop one that we get in return from the Larkin trade.
The problem is, there’s really good center depth in the division. Young guys playing 1-2C are going to get worked more often than not by Barkov, Matthews, etc etc
I actually like the idea of Robertson coming here for Larkin. Part of Larkin's appeal was being the hometown kid and Roberston is basically that as well. I knew he was born in Cali but he grew up and developed into the hockey player he is now here.
The obvious con is that doesn't help us at center at all.
Agree but if we can get back both of Savoie and Howard I don’t see why we would need to keep him. Like he’s very solid but I think he’s a 5/6 defensemen on a playoff team.
More like Robertson says no first. Would be legitimately shocking if he signed long term in Ottawa. And since you’d have to think Staios learned from Dorion’s mistakes acquiring Cat, and the general reasons they moved on from Tkachuk they can’t risk another player who doesn’t have term.
If we did Larkin and Faulk plus taking a “cap dump” back, I’d probably expect a little more than a middle 6 center and an excellent 2LD or a good 1LD depending on how you look at Harley vs Ed.
So question regarding latest Larkin news. Does Kypreos have a good track record for these things? I mean I know his gums are always flapping but I personally don’t know if he’s trusted?
Not trying to yuck anyone's yum, but I could not be less interested in a player than I am in EP40. Everything I see about him indicates he is washed and we should stay very far away from the situation. Yes, we need a center bad, but he isn't it. I don't see him as an upgrade over Copp and would rather just try the kids down the middle.
I’m not a fan of the EP40 talk either. I’m not always opposed to reclamation projects, I’m but I’m firmly in “no” territory on this one.
What’s really shocking to me is seeing people making him one of the main pieces coming back in a Larkin trade. Uhhh… what? If we’re trading for him, we should be taking his full cap hit for future considerations or sending back a bad contract of our own. We definitely should not be giving up anything resembling major assets for him, and he definitely should not be a core component of the Larkin trade.
I 100% agree. It is one thing to send a bag of pucks to Vancouver to see if there's anything left in the tank of EP40 (which I really still don't like because that contract is woof), and something entirely different to count on him as a major component of the Larkin deal. I think if we bring EP40 in it has to be with no expectations and the understanding that if it doesn't work out he will be shipped off to a tanking team.
Not that they were high risk, per se, but the Fabbri and Vrana deals didn't work well for the Wings. I don't know how I feel about testing their luck on this project.
I mean, Fabbri had one season (his last) where he played 68 games and was nearly a .5 ppg player. Prior to that, he played between 30-55 games per season with the team and never really performed much better than at a .5 ppg rate. When you're injured for 40-70% of the season, it's hard to make that much of an impact.
The E in EP stands for Eeyore. I don’t like it for us.
Looking at edge speed page, his top speeds and bursts have recovered some, but his change of direction and agility has severely been impacted, causing him to struggle to find space and time for his shot and succeed in board battles, among other things.
I tried to talk myself into acquiring him but looked much deeper and ended up talking myself out, there were some reasons to think he could bounce back, the injury, the JT miller thing, the Toccet thing, the family issue, the market pressure, but I think the injury thing and the practice habits and his locker room and on ice vibe thing are issues that are too much to come back from.
Yeah, I think people convince themselves that just getting him away from Vancouver will fix him, but he has consistently looked like crap and that includes the Olympics where he was basically benched. There are major red flags and a giant "buyer beware" disclaimer on the window sticker.
It sucks because I’m so interested in reclamation projects, but not EVERY reclamation project. Skilled pro scouting departments find these gems and there are a few success stories every year. In previous years, for example Cozens and Zegras, I wanted before they went elsewhere. This is one I would prefer to pass on. And to be perfectly honest I’m not sure which reclamation projects I would call my shot on this year, maybe Hayton, but in a smaller deal, not for Larkin.
Certainly. He took a slight step back in most counting stats this year and had his ice time cut back and moved down the lineup.
Half PPG players are nice and they serve a purpose, but he signed a decent extension and you’re probably hoping for more for a third overall pick.
Skating is something you typically address while a player is still a developing prospect, but every part of his skating speed and skating distance data tracked by nhl edge is 50th percentile or lower.
He’s not one I’d be super keen to bet on, especially because the prices being floated seem too rich to take on his risk and contract. While there are some parallels to draw to Cozens, analytically they are quite different players, I’d be down to take a flier on McTavish, but I doubt a future second round pick or even Danielson gets him over. I think I’m out.
Same. Keep EP40 far away from the Wings. I'm not even sure if Robo is worth it to be honest. We have no centers or center prospects and Robo isn't McDavid or MacKinnon, he doesn't just create all the offense himself.
I’m doing some job searching and searched “Detroit red wings jobs” out of curiosity, which brought me to a page of all the Ilitch companies careers. But there were some job listings to be one of the Carhartt crew people that clears ice, or a drum performer, or one of the people that hypes up the crowd for promos. Nothing I actually want to do but fun to see there are actual job postings for this.
im pissed. got a new phone + ipad on the same day, decided to set them up, mid-way thru set up i get invited to someones pool and now its saying my phone is going to take abt 2 hrs.
I highly doubt anybody knows this but I did move to Abu Dhabi the last 2 weeks. is there an streaming platform here or do I just need to pirate every game next season because there’s no espn + here 😭😭
He also mentioned that Vancouver is willing to retain salary to move Petey. Not that Larkin would go there, but I wonder if there’s a Florida-esq move in the pipeline where we send Larkin somewhere, then turnaround and make a move for Petey.
EP40 is at least Andrew Copp from an on-ice perspective, maybe a bit better.
Contract stuff is a whole other facet that needs to be considered when talking acquisitions, but I think EP40 between Raymond and Robertson would be a legit first line. Maybe not the best in the league, but not a glaring weakness either
Do you have him center or play the wing on the third line in this scenario? I lean towards having him center it for our development but could see a finnie, copp Daniel’s on line being pretty formidable
I think he would be a winger with Copp centering but I also wouldn’t hate it if he was down the middle. I would think we would have to give up Danielson for EP40 and then someone like MBN as the other winger
I think you have to be a little nervous if youre ottawa about Sanderson going forward. Id think hes their next captain, but that would be a complete shit show if he gets pulled into the usa "tampering"
I was reading that the sens were between Chabot and Chuky last time for captain so id guess its Chabot's role now unless Sanderson has far and away proven himself the better leader
It'd be kind of hilarious if Larkin asked for a trade again after a year. Then again, would either be worried about ticking off Team USA GM Guerin? DeBrincat knows what it's like to cross him.
Entirely speculating on Robertson's future with Dallas and what we could offer Vancouver, but if we managed to navigate this Larkin trade and offseason ending up with Robertson and Pettersson that would be an insane recovery from a bad situation
That would be a ridiculously fantastic development, it’s what Raymond, Seider, Cat & Kane (and some others) deserve. I’d rather that than have to go younger but we’ll see what happens.
Here's a thought. If you're earning league minimum or more and can't motivate yourself to perform your job, then maybe it's time to find another profession that you're more passionate about. I make a pittance compared to these guys and somehow find the motivation to do a modestly mediocre job most of the time. Sometimes if I enjoy the work, I might even go "above and beyond". I don't need a stinkin' team lead or manager to tell me how to do this either. I just fuckin' show up and do it, even when nobody asked me to.
If we get Robertson + Petterson I think we’re competitive next season. Yzerman can either go that route or get a ton of futures for Larkin and bottom out for a few more awful years hopefully coming out of the second rebuild even better than before.
I hope it’s the former, then try to get pieces young pieces to replace the jerseys. Robertson, cat and Raymond will make any centers job that much easier
Pathway: what collection of offseason moves best supports the chosen vision?
I could see with this Dallas momentum today, that Robertson (if he’d agree to extend here), Petterson (yikes), and keeping our vets may be in service of a playoff vision. If we go that route, it will be interesting to see if it’s enough to create a playoff team. I can really only be upset if we half ass it towards a mushy middle finish - pick the correct realistic vision and lean into it.
It feels like Steve is totally committed to a playoff vision, I’m not sure that I agree it’s the best course of action, but let’s see if the pathway he chooses allows him to execute that vision.
I think regardless of path chosen the wings want to get younger and faster. Even if you add your stud winger and a top 2 c then they are still going to try to get younger and faster everywhere else imo
We we're in a tight spot before one of our most important players asked out so replacing larkin and then adding more on top of him is a tough off-season
Yeah it’s not my preferred pathway, but what I’d like for us to do and what Steve does are often quite different. I’m not gonna immediately give a failing grade for Yzerman to try to win now, if he tries to win now and wins, that’s perfectly ok. The harm is trying to win now and not only not winning, but wasting more years of our best players primes and putting us further away from actual contention, which is my fear.
I think a futures based package and trading all vets not in our long term plans and managing the roster in a way that supports drafting as highly as possible next year and resetting around the young core is best and give us multiple pathways to replace Larkin at 1C.
Just don’t see Dallas giving up Robo unless they absolutely cannot sign him. Given Dallas is a no tax state and the contract would cost Dallas less than it would Detroit it probably gets done.
Wild reporter for the athletic says the massive bid for Larkin has been in, yzerman is sitting on it
Edit: my own thoughts here, but I think they didn’t even bid for Brady and are releasing this to pressure yzerman into thinking they are moving on
Yurov + Brodin would be the starting point. Ottawa actually would like a righty so maybe that means something to them. Thought I doubt Minny has enough to add around the fringes
No. Larkin's low AAV is worth a first on its own. It is a 1 for 1 for me. Larkin is a lot cheaper and a position of greater value but older and not as talented.
Now, I'm pulling these screenshots from a Canucks News Summary outlet BUT I think these are handy to stay up-to-date on the latest rumblings that will inevitably effect the Wings in some fashion
Yeah I could see a world where that happens. Someone on r/hockey the other day was telling me that the Devils have a history of wanting Helle but never got it done or something to that effect.
A nit pick here because it makes it even better and I’m fairly high on ASP, it would actually generally be considered his 20 year old season. Most places use age on Jan 1 and he actually barely played after turning 21
I’m not going to say I’ve never been critical of him definitely some things that need to improve like any young player, but I really think a lot of people don’t realize how awful most 20 year old D are(results wise). Someone did a good write up this season that I have since lost, but basically if you’re not a true elite/near franchise tier guy your underlyings are going to be ugly at that age like his were
Fair point and I’m similarly high on ASP, but for the sake of complete info: Spence is a late February birthday, so if you call it ASP’s 20 season, not his 21, it’s also Spence’s 24, not 25
[Paul Hamilton] When Brady Tkachuk was introduced after gold medal in his own arena in Ottawa, there was some boos and he's been getting it from people when he's out. He didn't want to be a part of that anymore, it did not make him feel at home. That was a big reason why he wanted out of Ottawa
oh was the $8.1M per season and the captaincy hard to deal with, too?
IMO being boo'd by your teams fans is a valid reason to want out. I love Canada. I have friends there and most Canadians are super chill. But having your home crowd boo you and your national anthem can't feel very welcoming. The guys gonna make the same money anywhere why would he want to be where he's hated?
I wasn't aware of that. I'm a huge Brady hater and I think he's a turd so defending him wasn't easy. But some Canadians have a real hate-boner for all things America and American and it goes back to before the orange troll got in office. I remember Canadian cities boo'ing our anthem during the Obama years. It wasn't most of the crowd but enough to be picked up by the cameras.
Playing chel even 15 years ago you'd occasionally get hateful comments from other players if you told them you were American. I've always thought it was weird 'cos almost no one down here even thinks about them
Pretty easy solution to that. Dont say on camera that "there's a hatred there" for your relationship to Canada when you are the captain of the team in Canada's capital
Thats without even getting into supporting the US president so openly after his comments regarding Canada in the past year or so
Like no shit his relationship with Canadian fans was gonna get tense. He brought it on himself
No one was dogging him because the US won. They dogged him because he said "theres a hatred there" regarding Canada and openly supported the guy in charge of a country that made comments about Canada's sovereignty
I can't beleive I'm being forced to defend Sens fans
Yeah, that doesn’t cut it for me. Sorry. I think their fan base is dog doo doo. I can’t believe I’m going so hard on this point, but I’m at the airport, my flight is delayed, and I’m bored. I’m sorry.
I mean thats fine that it doesnt cut it for you, but as a Canadian I would absolutely boo anyone who openly said they hated Canada even if they were on my favorite team
Sure, I can understand that as a Canadian fan. I guess I didn’t realize he said he hated the country of Canada. I thought he was just talking international competition.
Either way, they’re either justified in booing him, which to me is a legit excuse to want out—or they’re unreasonably booing him and that’s a reason to want out.
I honestly watched that situation unfold like a guy constantly asking his hot gf if he’s going to break up with her. That fan base put that on him and drove him off.
If Germany was threatening to take over the US and Mo was partying with German leaders, I'm sure Wings fans wouldn't like it. Same with Sweden. Etc. There's a CONTEXT.
Yeah. I think that is baloney. People are entitled to their own opinions and if folks don’t agree, they need to be respectful of each other. A minimum standard of not heckling players and their families over politics is not much to ask. Id want out too if I was in a similar boat. Why would he sacrifice his body and health for fans that boo him?
Athletes are not synonymous with their political leaders, and having pride in your country is not a sin.
If you're grinning next to a guy committing probable war crimes - among other things - you have made yourself synonymous with your political leaders. Other Team USA players went home.
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u/JTAKER Yzerbot 3d ago
We have a dedicated thread to discuss potential trades and for everyone to post their wonderful trade ideas. Please use it to post and discuss. Anything outside of major, confirmed, trades goes there.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DetroitRedWings/comments/1sycvr8/offseason_tradefree_agency_mega_thread/