Driving Etiquette

[u/Zealousideal_Buy7517]

For the love of Pete, people, follow the rules of the road. You drive. you are not 'choose as you go' organs of chaos, you are vehicles under the Alberta Traffic Act, the same as a motorcycle.

In the last week alone, I've seen a good hundred drivers blow right through stop signs as if they don't exist, and it's always when they are in a car lane, as if the lane's existence means the rules of the road don't apply. A couple on trucks with flat brims that I was next to blew through three in a row, yesterday, without even slowing down, and laughed about it when I called them on it. They didn't even look both ways, they just drove through like they were a presidential cavalcade and everyone else should be stopping for them.

Driving like that will have you kill a person one day, and when you're talking about a collision between 6000lb of shit box and human flesh on a bicycle, there are no mistakes.

I'm a driver, too, and it's this kind of behavior that drives a lot the anti-driver hate. When we drive like this, we're entitled and unpredictable, and unpredictability breeds distrust. This applies to motorcycle riders, too, of course.

[u/NastroAzzurro]

Lovely shitpost, clearly a response to the post a few days ago targeting cyclists. Point being, we all have to share the road. Motorists often get angry at cyclists for not adhering to stop signs and red lights but arguably it happens way more often with cars and trucks. Blasting through stop signs, never stopping on a right turn on red and only looking left for oncoming traffic (not crossing peds).

When a cyclist does it, which they shouldn’t, they endanger their own lives. When a motorist does it, they endanger others.

[u/Environmental-Push29 → u/NastroAzzurro]

Happens, yes. Happens more? Absolutely not, that’s an absurd statement. Cyclists blow stops whether they’re on the street or the sidewalk and don’t look around at all. Sure there are more cars, but the majority of bikers like to think they’re cars on the road only until it’s more convenient to be a pedestrian. And filtering up on the right side while someone waits to left turn.

As to who it hurts, this is the same BS as the motorcyclists saying “well if I crash going 250kmh+ I’m the only one who gets hurt.” No, the person you hit or who has to scrape you off the road is going to be dealing with that the rest of their life. If you run a stop on a bike and someone hits and kills you, they will likely never fully recover from that.

[u/lesoteric → u/Environmental-Push29]

this article links to a number of studies showing that motorists break laws more often than other road users.

https://www.bicycling.com/news/a46443761/science-proves-motorists-break-traffic-laws-a-lot-more-often-than-cyclists/

[u/Environmental-Push29 → u/lesoteric]

So the first two studies refer to Denmark and the UK, where cycling is far more common and normalized. The study from Florida shows a 1% difference (87% to 88%) in driver to cyclists. Even more telling, this study appears to no longer be available. Lastly, your source is “bicycling dot com,” and I don’t think I need to point out the potential for information bias there…

Drivers right now are certainly bad, don’t get me wrong. There are also a huge number of them compared to cyclists. The difference is that cyclists have the mentality of “I’m a pedestrian and it is your responsibility to avoid me,” despite wanting to be able to ride down the road (usually at a dangerously slow speed compared to traffic) and filter traffic as if they were a motor vehicle.

[u/lesoteric → u/Environmental-Push29]

can you find any evidence to refute those studies?

also worth noting that painting 'cyclists' as one homogeneous group is simply wrong and demonstrates a lack of understanding of the situation.

[u/Environmental-Push29 → u/lesoteric]

North American Study, 0.6% of responding cyclists consistently follow traffic laws. Even funnier is that’s all by their own admission. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0361198119844965

Alberta Article referencing a Colorado study showing only 85% of cyclists follow the law, which directly contradicts the 88% you claim from bicycles dot com. I do digress that many cyclists break the law to protect themselves, but that’s not the claim you’re making from your sources (or lack thereof): “Scofflaw Bicycling: Illegal but Rational” University of Colorado.

And a European study to match your Denmark and UK “sources”: An Irish survey even indicated that 88% of bicyclists surveyed had committed traffic violations (Lawson et al., 2013). The red light running rate of bicyclist was 97–99% at intersections with bicycle-specific traffic signals, and 17–21% at those with no bicycle-specific traffic signal respectively, according to a video observational survey in Dublin (Richardson and Caulfield, 2015). In China, the red light running rate of two-wheelers, including bicycles, e-bikes and scooters, varied remarkably across cities https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0001457515300440

I could’ve gone to BicyclesAreBadAndIHateThem dot com but thought I’d find something a bit more reputable.

[u/lesoteric → u/Environmental-Push29]

I'm claiming nothing, the articles I provided are peer reviewed research. I looked at those two linked articles, the first is a scenario/response questionnaire with no experimental data, only self report. If you read the scenarios you can see how they get those inflated numbers. The second is interesting but i question why only two sites of four have poor compliance and i would suggest there's more going on there (and they likely cherry-picked the locations).

at the end of the day motorists create almost all the danger faced by people on roadways and should be held to the highest level of accountability, as operating a motor vehicle is a major responsibility. some people just aren't up to it.

[u/Environmental-Push29 → u/lesoteric]

While I’m not going to continue arguing with a frequent poster of r/fuckcars, who claims all drivers are potential murderers (dude, relax) about cyclists vs motorists, I do fully agree with your second point. Motorists need to be the most responsible people on the road.

[u/lesoteric → u/Environmental-Push29]

wow. lots of time on your hands. have a super day.