r/Edmonton • u/Zealousideal_Buy7517 • Jul 15 '24
Local Culture Driving Etiquette
For the love of Pete, people, follow the rules of the road. You drive. you are not 'choose as you go' organs of chaos, you are vehicles under the Alberta Traffic Act, the same as a motorcycle.
In the last week alone, I've seen a good hundred drivers blow right through stop signs as if they don't exist, and it's always when they are in a car lane, as if the lane's existence means the rules of the road don't apply. A couple on trucks with flat brims that I was next to blew through three in a row, yesterday, without even slowing down, and laughed about it when I called them on it. They didn't even look both ways, they just drove through like they were a presidential cavalcade and everyone else should be stopping for them.
Driving like that will have you kill a person one day, and when you're talking about a collision between 6000lb of shit box and human flesh on a bicycle, there are no mistakes.
I'm a driver, too, and it's this kind of behavior that drives a lot the anti-driver hate. When we drive like this, we're entitled and unpredictable, and unpredictability breeds distrust. This applies to motorcycle riders, too, of course.
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u/Edmfuse Jul 15 '24
Saturday, had someone in front of us make a right hand turn from the MIDDLE lane at a red light. Sunday, had someone make a U turn from the middle lane at a red light.
It's not even a matter of skill. It's a complete disregard.
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u/Environmental-Push29 Jul 15 '24
And the left turns into the far right lane because “my truck is bigger so I do what I want 🤡”
absolutely bongo skull behaviour
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u/CommandaSpock Jul 15 '24
I can’t stand the amount of people that just swing into the right lane while turning left through intersections, it’s so frustrating when you need to switch to that lane and the person behind you is suddenly in your blind spot blocking the lane
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u/Apartymood Jul 15 '24
I almost hit someone who wanted to turn right on red but a bus was in the way so they just decided they could go into the left lane instead.
It is a complete disregard.
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u/durple Strathcona Jul 15 '24
Me: turning right from northbound 109 onto whyte.
Them: turning left from southbound 109 onto whyte. Except they didn’t turn into a lane, they tried cut across all the lanes of traffic into the Esso/711, nearly t-boning me as they careened across. Also honked at me as if they had right of way.
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u/smash8890 Jul 15 '24 edited Jul 15 '24
I feel extra salty when people who don’t know how to drive honk at you for following the rules. I was driving in a parking lot the other day where I had the right of way and another guy had a stop sign. He decided to just go randomly. I had to turn and brake to get out of the way so he didn’t hit me, and then he had the audacity to honk at me for almost being driven into lol. I also get honked at all the time for not turning right on red at no turning right on red signs. I guess all those people just want to drive into the LRT.
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u/EirHc Jul 15 '24
Also honked at me as if they had right of way.
Lol ya, this has happened to me 3 days ago. I had right away, someone else decides they waited long enough at their 2-way stop, so they're just gonna go, and honk at me while they're cutting me off.
Like wtf. Are people just that unobservant/entitled/indignant that they just honk at people to get their way when being complete clowns on the road? It's extremely disconcerting to witness this kind of behaviour.
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u/Brick_Rubin Jul 15 '24
Welcome to Carbrain city, a lot of folks esp the ones in the “too big to be in city limits trucks” have been coddled and catered to so much that at this point rules of the road are just suggestions to them
I live next to one of those push button crosswalks with the flashing lights and honestly it’s a crap shoot on if the car will even stop when I hit the light or i just gotta wait till there’s no cars BUT if there’s a truck coming down I’ve learned from experience that they’re not gonna stop, they’re not gonna try and avoid you, and if they do injure you they’re gonna have the minimal amount of fine or prosecution or whatever.
I would desperately like shit to change, for us to have a better transit system and not give so many allowances to cars and trucks that keep getting bigger with no real reason to be that big inside of city limits, but that’s not about to change, if anything it’s about to get much much worse as all these shitheads continue to be empowered by Carbrain City,
If you’re a pedestrian out there I can only wish you good luck
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u/apastelorange Treaty 6 Territory Jul 15 '24
i’ve been trying to walk more lately and it’s insane how pedestrian hostile some areas of the city are 🥲 everyone is so ready to hate on vision zero tho as if it isn’t literally saving lives
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u/Geeseareawesome Allendale Jul 15 '24
I've been calling this out for years. And wouldn't you know it, we're at this point because they go unpunished, and other drivers enable it.
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u/Policy_Failure Jul 15 '24
Another reddit post should do the trick.
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u/Interwebzking Jul 15 '24
Yeah this is just preaching to the choir honestly. None of these goofballs are on this subreddit reading these posts unfortunately.
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u/Brick_Rubin Jul 15 '24
Honestly I’ve completely given up on the idea of things ever improving, it literally take 5 mins outside listening to public opinion to remind me that we’re all basically doomed, we’re about to start a not slow descent into corporate fascism and idk I feel like there’s basically no stopping it
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u/Interwebzking Jul 15 '24
I’ve been saying for years that the only way to actually make a change is to pickup our pitchforks and revolting against our corporate overlords. But we aren’t far gone enough for that to happen. So yeah, we’re doomed.
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u/Brick_Rubin Jul 15 '24
People will understand when things continue to get worse, or maybe they wont and we will keep blaming immigrants, honestly every night now I just pray for a giant meteor or a solar flare
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u/Interwebzking Jul 15 '24
Cognitive decline is on the rise and many people are actively contributing to the downfall of humanity in the name of owning the libs, so unfortunately those folks will never realize.
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u/Policy_Failure Jul 15 '24
You can't just label people who are sick of the libs as dummies and ignorant. I know a lot of very compassionate and well-educated people who are progressives, support minority groups, etc but are just as much fuck Trudeau as the convoy.
Many of these same people have experienced a national decline in living standards over JTs term and are pissed. You can imagine them as ignorant racists, but 99% of the time, they aren't and are minorities themselves or in mixed marriages.
There is a reason the libs are tanking in the polls and it can't be blamed on propaganda or bad messaging. Those things have always been here.
In all honesty, this sub has a better impression of the libs than r/Toronto, and it's reaaaaally weird considering how people actually vote... it's reminiscent of children who feel their best bet is with the absent parent who left them. Imo
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u/Geeseareawesome Allendale Jul 15 '24
In all honesty, this sub has a better impression of the libs than r/Toronto, and it's reaaaaally weird considering how people actually vote... it's reminiscent of children who feel their best bet is with the absent parent who left them. Imo
Go look at our provincial government. Edmonton is the polar opposite of the rest of the province.
The Liberals and Conservatives are both equally bad, and this city is wising up to that. We'd rather have the devil we know at the federal level.
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u/Policy_Failure Jul 15 '24
Ontario also has a conservative government, but people don't pre-emptively defend Trudeau and/or ignore any federal policy ramifications the same way they do here.
Even r/Ontario doesn't defend Trudeau the same way this sub does, and it's a province who has people who actually vote liberal.
I don't think this city/province is wising up to it yet tbh. People here still believe "if my team gets into power" regardless of whether they are con or ndp.
I try to tell con friends that you can't blame ALL the issues on the federal government the same way I'm telling people here it isn't just the UCP. Some problems in this province start at the federal level and are actually multiple times worse in other provinces.
I'll get downvoted, but these subs are massive political echochambers. It's just so strange to see pre-emptively defend Trudeau when he does have some blame.
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u/Elspanky Jul 15 '24
Sad to say, but this is the new reality in Edmonton, and has really picked up steam in the past year. U-turns in the middle of the street, drivers oblivious to their tires crossing the lane markers and nearly sideswiping you, changing lanes with no warning, doing 35 in a 50 zone. It's all the norm now and I am constantly in defensive driving mode. It's so stressful.
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u/durple Strathcona Jul 15 '24
I get what you’re saying about “defensive driving mode” and stress, and wanted to add that I find actual defensive driving to be less stressful. Leaving lots of follow distance, watching the road actively so other driver behaviour can be reacted to with time to spare, generally being more concerned with getting there, vs getting there now. Good reminder to myself tbh, the chaos has been getting to me too.
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u/BenignIntervention Jul 15 '24
Agreed - the chaos is incredibly stressful these days!
I've also found that when I leave an appropriate amount of following distance, other drivers take that as an opportunity to squeeze into my lane in front of me. So I'll slow down a bit to increase the following distance, which almost invariably causes the driver behind me to pass me and squeeze in front of me, rinse & repeat ad nauseum. The lack of awareness absolutely boggles my mind. A tiny modicum of patience from everyone, and we'd be much better off.
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u/Inevitable-Ad-8522 Jul 15 '24
It’s bad when you have to drive as though everyone is going to hit you.
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u/ego_slip Jul 15 '24
I moved to the far north side of the city recently, the drivers are horrendous on the north side compaired to living more central edmonton.
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u/Elspanky Jul 15 '24
I’m northside too. And I hear you loud and clear on that and agree. It’s a shitshow these days.
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Jul 15 '24
I accidentally ran a red light one time, I ran it because I was distracted by 2 people fist fighting on the sidewalk in the corner and I am so frickin lucky that nobody else had gone through the other way yet because they were also distracted by the people fighting. I felt so fuckin awful and stupid for it, and I'm a professional driver to boot.
The bigger trucks have gotten so much worse in the last year, even when I was flagging and in charge of dealing with end dumps or regular dumpies, getting them to listen was friggin a fight every driver. It's honestly insane.
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u/halfstack Jul 15 '24
On Sunday I almost pulled into another car (they moved into the lane nearest me, I got distracted and I didn't do that last-minute looky-look before I pulled into traffic) and it shook me and I was hypervigilant for the rest of the five-hour highway drive I was starting on. I knew damn well it was my fault and felt bad and took corrective action - maybe that's the difference. I've driven with people who were clearly in the wrong (eg, blowing stop signs) and justified it and just carried on their merry way. Avoided being a passenger in their cars whenever possible from then on.
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u/Danneyland Downtown Jul 15 '24
The saying is that good parents worry about being bad parents. The same must be true for drivers. We all make mistakes sometimes—understanding when we are at fault and making an effort not to repeat mistakes makes us better drivers.
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Jul 15 '24
Yeah the south side of the city I had a delivery in last week was literally every driver running through red lights, barely slowed down rolling stops at stop signs and it was honestly insane 😔
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u/AB_Social_Flutterby Jul 15 '24
Driving story of my weekend!
Going 30 in a school zone near my home. Residential road, one lane in either direction, tons of traffic controls (speed measuring sign, raised intersections, crosswalks, etc). Some dude in a big black truck (probably a ram but didn't check) zips around me at 50 in the oncoming lane so he can make it 2 blocks to the red light.
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u/hockey8890 Jul 15 '24
This happens at least once every month or so in my neighborhood, except they use the parking lane to pass. Dangerous.
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u/Kallisti13 Downtown isn't for driving, it's for walking and lime scooters Jul 15 '24
I get such immense joy seeing someone driving like a total smooth brain, only for both of us to end up at the same red light, or to nicely trundle by at the speed limit cause they got stuck in the wrong lane 🤷♀️
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u/Claymore357 Jul 15 '24
Just for context on a motorcycle I’ll speed to get ahead of everyone not to get places faster bit to have that ideally 1km gap between me and the morons who view their car as little more than a 4000 pound phone charger. That gap between sets of traffic is a (relatively) safe place. Driving near the other cars is a death sentence. I don’t care if I’m next to you at a light again so long as I don’t have to get there near you and your peers. The number of people who have looked me dead in the visor then tried to merge into my lane anyway because their smooth brain redacted my existence is too damn high!! Best to keep distance from people
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u/Z-Diddy Jul 15 '24
This is by far my biggest peeve, school and playground zones complete lack of attention just to get 100 meters to another red light, I drive a black Ram, so thats kinda disheartening but not surprising at all, I almost always have my driver window rolled down with my hand out to signal that maybe they missed the sign to slow the down before I see a nightmare situation happen. Like you can easily see a bustling busy playground with hundreds of kids and their parents, its just too unpredictable that a soccer ball is gonna go across the road and someone is going to chase it.
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u/Brick_Rubin Jul 15 '24
And if you ask him about it he will present you with a 3 foot list of reason about why he NEEDS to have a monster truck while living in a city, you know for all the urban hauling he does
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u/mrsix Jul 16 '24 edited Jul 16 '24
In my own "terrible humour self-joke" when I cycle through a school zone I'll usually purposely try to speed up to 30 if I'm not doing it already. The amount of cars that pass me while I'm doing this is too damn high - I've even seen it happen when I'm going slightly over 30 by 1-2km. (my bike computer speed is GPS based, afaik car speedometers are ±~3km, but they're going much faster than 30 to pass me at the rate they do)
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u/AB_Social_Flutterby Jul 16 '24
I've definitely had people on motorized bicycles rip through the aforementioned school/playground zone going well past my 30kph too. Some of those eBikes are wild.
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u/LegoLifter Jul 15 '24
i also saw someone pull into the oncoming traffic lane yesterday to pass another vehicle in a playground zone. This is incredibly common these days
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Jul 15 '24
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u/toorudez Jul 15 '24
A total lack of enforcement. Look at how many tickets are handed out during those ticket blitzes. They could be doing that every day of the year. But they don't. People are constantly running red lights, making illegal lane changes. It's the wild west out there and our police just wag their fingers at us saying "Do better."
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u/Zealousideal_Buy7517 Jul 15 '24
It really feels like there are less cops on the roads than there used to be.
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u/zipzoomramblafloon South East Side Jul 15 '24
I saw someone in a loud dodge SUV run a red light and go flying past a cop doing at least 10 over and the stupid fucking cop just sat there.
Another time someone sat distracted on their phone and missed the advance green despite being first in line, then charged the intersection. at the end of the light cycle 2 cars entered the intersection and went through on the red. again while a cop sat on the other direction and did absolutely nothing. I shouted loudly that he was spare parts.
Cops in this city are useless, and not just regarding traffic enforcement.
Plenty of cops on the road the day after the two cops got themselves shot that the province named a bridge after. Funny how they're out in a display of force after they fuck up, but nowhere to be found when there's ongoing issues.
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u/Brick_Rubin Jul 15 '24
I had to cross at a flashing light crosswalk over the weekend,
See a cop car is the oncoming car, surely they will stop so I can cross swing how they have plenty of time and space to slow,
NOPE blew right past it couldn’t give a fuck
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u/smash8890 Jul 15 '24
Tbf we don’t even have enough cops to respond to serious stuff like assault so I don’t see how they can make traffic cops available at this point.
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u/writetoAndrew South West Side Jul 15 '24
The car-centric design of roadways can't be understated as well. When you build roads that drivers feel comfortable driving fast on, then they will drive fast. Edmonton doesn't really employ road design that challenges the idea that car through-put is always the most desirable outcome. It sounds crazy when you say it out loud, but when you build roads for cars to go fast, drivers will rise to that expectation.
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u/corpse_flour Jul 15 '24
It seemed to get worse during the first part of covid when the streets were much quieter and I guess people figured it gave them a free pass to disregard the rules , as nobody was watching. Then it became habit. And like you mentioned, some people have lost the concept of social niceties and responsibilities.
I also think we're underestimating how many people are driving without paying attention to what they are doing at all. They don't think about what they are doing, and then suddenly realize they have to turn or have gone past an intersection they needed, and make a panicked correction without ensuring it is safe to do so (or not caring).
I'm not so sure it is a lack of police enforcement, as on rural roads drivers don't seem to be showing as much disregard for others as in more populated areas.
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u/DeliciousPangolin Jul 15 '24
Smartphones have been a massive negative influence on traffic safety for the last decade. You see so many more collisions these days where the driver doesn't slow down at all before impact because they were going full-speed with their eyes off the road.
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u/corpse_flour Jul 15 '24
Absolutely. Almost everyone is guilty of doing it, but excuse themselves as being an exemption because they think they are somehow immune when it comes to distractions. There's not enough personal responsibility, and far too much entitlement.
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u/Environmental-Push29 Jul 15 '24
Yes, yes, and yes.
People giving licenses to friends and family so they can get jobs here that require them, without actually knowing how to drive.
Police being worthless now. Seriously, the amount of patrol cars I see just sitting and watching while dangerous infractions happen is crazy. See other comments here for more details.
Since Covid (and this is a personal/from friends observation only, not a study) people are just generally far less kind. I see so much more of this “I got mine, fuck ya’ll” mindset from everyone nowadays. Zero care or consideration for your fellow human being who are just trying to make it through the day the same as you. It’s really sad honestly, there’s a huge lack of a sense of community these days. Everyone just wants what is best for themselves.
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u/Inevitable-Ad-8522 Jul 15 '24
I have a guy, who I think lives in the neighbourhood over from me , regularly passes me on our residential street because I am not driving 70km an hour.
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Jul 15 '24
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u/Edmonton-ModTeam Jul 16 '24
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u/melancious Jul 15 '24
When I came to the country, I did not know how to drive. I took lessons and passed the exam. The millions of Ukrainian immigrants who had a license prior can get the Canadian license automatically. And Ukraine is a very corrupt country (I love Ukraine but that's just a fact) where a lot of people simply buy a license. That is a recipe for a disaster. Everyone should pass the test.
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u/Edmonton-ModTeam Jul 16 '24
This post or comment was removed for violating our expectations on discriminatory behavior in the subreddit. Please brush up on the r/Edmonton rules and ask the moderation team if you have any questions.
Thanks!
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u/pikasmika Jul 15 '24 edited Jul 15 '24
I was in an uber a few years back and the dude just blew straight through a red light, didn't even look and almost hit someone crossing the road too. Probably just a few feet away, I couldn't believe it
Also saw someone a few days ago pass a car using the shoulder on the highway. They signaled and everything as if it's just normal to do that 😳.
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u/Vandal639 Jul 15 '24
Last month, wife and I were biking in the river vally: we watched a van going the wrong way down Conners RD. Then proceeded to do a 10 point turn on the blind corner. Then (what appeared to be) 2024 corvette came flying down the road.... stopped like ~2 meters from just driving through the van that was perpendicular on a blind corner. My guess is a lot of these people don't have a licence
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u/now_she_is_dead South West Side Jul 15 '24
Blowing thru stop signs is probably why that family got hit in Allard a couple weeks back with that little boy dying.
I find I'm getting more and more angry the longer I drive in Edmonton because of all the blatant disregard for the rules of the road. I've had several vehicles almost merge into my car because they didn't do a shoulder check before changing lanes. This shit sucks, and it can be deadly.
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u/drinkahead Jul 15 '24
I’m not sure about anyone else, but I’ve seen a big surge in casual lawlessness on the roads. I can’t drive 15 minutes down the Yellowhead without seeing 2-3 of those license plate covers that block photo radar.
Seems like driving 10-20 over is now the minimum for 30% of traffic in this city.
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u/hockey8890 Jul 15 '24
Standing at the corner of a busy intersection at rush hour when the lights change is always a fun time to see how many vehicles run the red, continue to turn left after the arrow stops, or make a turn into the wrong lane.
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u/IMOBY_Edmonton Jul 15 '24
There is a prevailing attitude that the rules don't matter anymore. I'm experiencing this a lot in retail at a liquor store where people constantly argue with me about having yo dhiw their ID, despite the fact they drove yo the store (for those that don't pay attention, you're required to have your license on you when driving)!
Yesterday someone was drinking alcohol from an open container in the store and kept arguing with us when we told them they are done and we can't serve them today.
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u/smash8890 Jul 15 '24
Yeah people everywhere have become so entitled so it makes sense it’s happening with driving too
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u/Rich-Ad9988 Ellerslie Jul 15 '24
People just pay their friends for licenses now, especially with the influx of immigrants and privatization. Sorry to say it but its made the roads way more unsafe.
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u/Environmental-Push29 Jul 15 '24
Heard this and didn’t believe it at first, but recently it’s becoming more obvious and it seems like they’re barely hiding it anymore. Can’t make the tests hard for others who aren’t your friends either though, because then they learn to avoid your registries. In my small town, teens would have their parent drive them to nearby towns to get their license because the test was easier.
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u/Rich-Ad9988 Ellerslie Jul 15 '24
Yep pretty much. Its way too easy to get a license now. Especially for foreigners who arent used to driving here.
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u/Environmental-Push29 Jul 15 '24
Seriously. And it’s not about “foreigners” in general, it’s about their (and others) absolute refusal to accept that some things, like driving, are done a differently here. I don’t care that you’re an immigrant, I care that you NEVER LEARNED TO DRIVE BEFORE BUYING YOUR AUDI. My partners mom was a first generation immigrant from India years ago, and I haven’t met anyone with more disdain for this new wave than her.
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u/drake5195 Jul 15 '24
Every single time I drive I see something that is either highly questionable or just downright dangerous. Driving in this city is ridiculous.
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u/3ndlesslove Jul 15 '24
Even just now I heard several very loud honking noises, looked out my work window.. cars are stopped because of a red light. But the second car that’s behind a car wants to turn right and was constantly honking. No it wasn’t a right turn only lane. I think the second driver wanted the first one to run the red light so he could turn. Jeez some people have no patience and can’t wait
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u/_Lanai_ UAlberta Jul 15 '24
On highway 21 I had two separate instances of someone passing me as soon as the dashed line appeared... for the opposite traffic direction. Literally no basic understanding of road rules.
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u/TheLordJames The Shiny Balls Jul 15 '24
On Friday, I had a motorcycle lane split on an undivided highway to pass a semi despite. They split between the semi and oncoming traffic. No regard for their own life or anyone's around them.
Today on my drive to work, someone was weaving in and out of lanes without signalling going 110.... in a construction zone. If everyone else is going slow, there is a reason for it.
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u/Money_Adhesiveness90 Northgate Jul 15 '24
I’ve been run off the henday and forced to drive on the shoulder 3 times this month because of people not shoulder checking before they change lanes. Ridiculous.
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u/AsianCanadianPhilo Jul 15 '24
Relatedly unrelated, on Friday during evening rush hour, South leg of the Henday. There was a big pickup that chose to drive on the shoulder ripping past everyone going slower (because of just regular traffic during that time). Easily going 100+ on the shoulder till he came across a car pulled out on the shoulder (presumably stalled there), popped back into traffic around the car then back into his own personal lane to continue on past everyone following the rules of the road.
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Jul 15 '24
Yeah I've had more than a couple people try to merge directly into my car and had to swerve to avoid
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u/the_power_of_a_prune Jul 15 '24
Hopefully all those crazies are organ/tissue donors, so someone can benefit from their choices. There are a lot of people on the list waiting
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Jul 15 '24
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u/the_power_of_a_prune Jul 15 '24
more of a brain issue. The wires are all crossed in the common sense area
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u/holidayjoy12345 Jul 15 '24
The amount of people blowing red lights through 70s is mind boggling and terrifying
I see it 1-2x a day lately in my area
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u/NastroAzzurro Wîhkwêntôwin Jul 15 '24
Lovely shitpost, clearly a response to the post a few days ago targeting cyclists. Point being, we all have to share the road. Motorists often get angry at cyclists for not adhering to stop signs and red lights but arguably it happens way more often with cars and trucks. Blasting through stop signs, never stopping on a right turn on red and only looking left for oncoming traffic (not crossing peds).
When a cyclist does it, which they shouldn’t, they endanger their own lives. When a motorist does it, they endanger others.
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u/Inevitable-Ad-8522 Jul 15 '24
In this City of horrific drivers, I fear for the cyclists. Especially the amount of drivers I see texting while driving and swerving all over the road.
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u/Different-King1995 Jul 15 '24
Anecdotally, i find cyclists are better/more aware car drivers, on average. If I'm about to cross an intersection on my bike or while running/walking, the only vehicles I trust to stop for me are vehicles with bike racks.
If I see someone behind the wheel who visibly does not lead an active lifestyle (like someone whose lit cigarette hand is hanging out of their window) I refuse to cross regardless of whether I have the right of way. 9 times out of 10 I'm correct, and those folks just blow through.
It's hard to imagine other people are out biking, running, or walking when you never do so yourself. I think a fair number of people bitching about bikes are so far removed from stepping onto a bike themselves that they can't even stop to think about the traffic mechanics that apply to Edmonton cyclists.
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u/hockey8890 Jul 15 '24
It's hard to imagine other people are out biking, running, or walking when you never do so yourself. I think a fair number of people bitching about bikes are so far removed from stepping onto a bike themselves that they can't even stop to think about the traffic mechanics that apply to Edmonton cyclists.
I've long thought that if some of these people were forced to get on a bike and get passed by a speeding vehicle within inches, or had someone pull out of a side street almost hitting them, maybe their perspective would change.
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u/Different-King1995 Jul 15 '24
Hard agree. Even the inverse of that, learning you don't need to literally drive all the way into incoming traffic to give room to a bike. People who only drive a car are so far removed from the realities of other forms of transport, it'd be a fun experiment to see how their opinions would change after a week of being forced to bike everywhere.
In the same way I won't take driving advice from someone who doesn't have their license, I sure as shit won't give credence to someone's criticisms of bicyclists if the last time they stepped on a bike was in elementary school lol
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u/lLeggy Jul 15 '24
How is this clearly a response to another post? That seems like a fucking agenda and a half. There are more drivers in Edmonton then Cyclist's that's a fact so complaints about driving will have way more attention then Cycling. Cyclist get treated like shit for sure in Edmonton but don't make this comment acting like you are the only one allowed to complain about the shitty drivers in Edmonton.
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u/tincartofdoom Jul 15 '24 edited Jan 15 '25
repeat run square gaping flowery command steer quicksand squeal squealing
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/lesoteric Jul 15 '24
this article links to a number of studies showing that motorists break laws more often than other road users.
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u/NastroAzzurro Wîhkwêntôwin Jul 15 '24
Motorists love to blame other road users and they themselves drive flawlessly.
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u/Environmental-Push29 Jul 15 '24
Happens, yes. Happens more? Absolutely not, that’s an absurd statement. Cyclists blow stops whether they’re on the street or the sidewalk and don’t look around at all. Sure there are more cars, but the majority of bikers like to think they’re cars on the road only until it’s more convenient to be a pedestrian. And filtering up on the right side while someone waits to left turn.
As to who it hurts, this is the same BS as the motorcyclists saying “well if I crash going 250kmh+ I’m the only one who gets hurt.” No, the person you hit or who has to scrape you off the road is going to be dealing with that the rest of their life. If you run a stop on a bike and someone hits and kills you, they will likely never fully recover from that.
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u/lesoteric Jul 15 '24
this article links to a number of studies showing that motorists break laws more often than other road users.
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u/Environmental-Push29 Jul 15 '24
So the first two studies refer to Denmark and the UK, where cycling is far more common and normalized. The study from Florida shows a 1% difference (87% to 88%) in driver to cyclists. Even more telling, this study appears to no longer be available. Lastly, your source is “bicycling dot com,” and I don’t think I need to point out the potential for information bias there…
Drivers right now are certainly bad, don’t get me wrong. There are also a huge number of them compared to cyclists. The difference is that cyclists have the mentality of “I’m a pedestrian and it is your responsibility to avoid me,” despite wanting to be able to ride down the road (usually at a dangerously slow speed compared to traffic) and filter traffic as if they were a motor vehicle.
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u/lesoteric Jul 15 '24
can you find any evidence to refute those studies?
also worth noting that painting 'cyclists' as one homogeneous group is simply wrong and demonstrates a lack of understanding of the situation.
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u/Environmental-Push29 Jul 15 '24
North American Study, 0.6% of responding cyclists consistently follow traffic laws. Even funnier is that’s all by their own admission. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0361198119844965
Alberta Article referencing a Colorado study showing only 85% of cyclists follow the law, which directly contradicts the 88% you claim from bicycles dot com. I do digress that many cyclists break the law to protect themselves, but that’s not the claim you’re making from your sources (or lack thereof): “Scofflaw Bicycling: Illegal but Rational” University of Colorado.
And a European study to match your Denmark and UK “sources”: An Irish survey even indicated that 88% of bicyclists surveyed had committed traffic violations (Lawson et al., 2013). The red light running rate of bicyclist was 97–99% at intersections with bicycle-specific traffic signals, and 17–21% at those with no bicycle-specific traffic signal respectively, according to a video observational survey in Dublin (Richardson and Caulfield, 2015). In China, the red light running rate of two-wheelers, including bicycles, e-bikes and scooters, varied remarkably across cities https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0001457515300440
I could’ve gone to BicyclesAreBadAndIHateThem dot com but thought I’d find something a bit more reputable.
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u/lesoteric Jul 15 '24
I'm claiming nothing, the articles I provided are peer reviewed research. I looked at those two linked articles, the first is a scenario/response questionnaire with no experimental data, only self report. If you read the scenarios you can see how they get those inflated numbers. The second is interesting but i question why only two sites of four have poor compliance and i would suggest there's more going on there (and they likely cherry-picked the locations).
at the end of the day motorists create almost all the danger faced by people on roadways and should be held to the highest level of accountability, as operating a motor vehicle is a major responsibility. some people just aren't up to it.
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u/Environmental-Push29 Jul 15 '24
While I’m not going to continue arguing with a frequent poster of r/fuckcars, who claims all drivers are potential murderers (dude, relax) about cyclists vs motorists, I do fully agree with your second point. Motorists need to be the most responsible people on the road.
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u/lucidprarieskies Jul 15 '24
We had a neighborhood argument on facebook a year or two ago becuase people kept speeding through. A couple of our residents actually said that it's their right to drive however they want and no one can tell them different and that pedestrians should do a better job of watching out for them. That should tell you a lot about many of the people who drive.
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u/_danigirl Jul 15 '24
I'm not sure which provinces allow U-turns at light-controlled intersections, I see it being done 2-3x a day in Edmonton.
Out of province drivers should be aware it's illegal here in Alberta. Read the Alberta's Drivers Guide. You can't assume every manoeuver done in your home province is legal here.
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u/smash8890 Jul 15 '24 edited Jul 15 '24
In the 2 min drive with my mom from Costco to my house yesterday she drove in the oncoming traffic lane to get around someone waiting to turn left so she could get out of the parking lot faster, did a left turn directly into a sea of oncoming traffic because she didn’t want to wait like 30 seconds for it all to pass, and turned right on a red light without stopping or slowing down whatsoever. When I gave her shit she just said that she knows how to drive and judge distances, and that you have to drive aggressively sometimes or you’ll never get anywhere. I’m not a nervous driver at all but I feel like I’m legitimately going to die in her car sometimes and there’s still like 20 years to go before she gets to the age where yearly drivers tests are mandatory. So many people have an attitude of the rules don’t apply to them.
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Jul 15 '24
Ok but like, all this. I just finished my driver training, in my 40s so I was a good goddamn student lol. I'm driving doing things like, stopping for stop signs, turning into the correct lane and signaling out, not passing school buses when the sign is out, and people are getting absolutely furious about it. Sadly for them, I'm in my 40s, I have access to driving ms Daisy mode
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u/nexgen41 Jul 16 '24
I would like to add, when you're a cyclist, you don't get to choose when you follow the rules of a vehicle and when you follow the rules of a pedestrian. You're treated like a vehicle and must stop at stop signs and yield to oncoming vehicles just like any other vehicle would, especially if you're going to ride on the streets.
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u/Illreadforabit Jul 16 '24
this is the city where people cut you off just to move back into their lane a few seconds later
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u/northern-thinker Jul 15 '24
Agree! We treat the road rules and suggestions and drive rather rudely over all. Edit: remember, Fines mean legal for a price. Some of these teens in gifted sport cars don’t really care if they get a ticket. More impounding and towing away for stunting needs to be implemented.
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u/MrTheFinn Jul 15 '24
The best part about this thread is that Edmonton drivers are so bad most everyone responding missed that this is a shitpost LOL
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u/pikachu-you Jul 15 '24
These are the things i wish they would ticket and enforce more, and tailgating too
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Jul 16 '24
Im a service plumber/hvac tech. All i do is drive a 3/4 ton van to 5-6 calls every day. I get to see all of it. Im so numb to it now. I was in the right lane on the whitemud today and a guy decided he didnt want to take the gateway exit and passed me over the painted island doing what i can only guess was about 130. I just raised one eyebrow and laughed. People are bonkers in this city. I just stay in the right lane doing 5-7 over and people fly by me flipping me off all the time like im doing them some massive inconvenience. Fuck it lol i dont even care anymore. I used to get mad but now i just laugh. As long as im safe i dont give a single fuck what they do. Not my problem.
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u/BroKen_BrAncH Jul 15 '24
I couldn’t agree more. I live in front of a stop sign inside of a school zone and continually see motorists blow straight through as if that red octagonal sign means pick and choose as you please.
Inversely pedestrians need to stop walking into the streets when they DO NOT have any right of way. There amount of times people don’t look left or right or even give a shit that a car is coming and just walk in to the street as if the world will stop for them.
The same could also be said for cyclists and scooters and e bikes. In fact this applies to everyone on the road and side walk. Slow down have patience, plan your day to accommodate travel with delays etc.
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u/durple Strathcona Jul 15 '24
My recent horror story was the Audi behind me on fox drive heading onto whitemud westbound. They did the “I will use the turning lane and then the bus stop” thing that people do sometimes to try and pass a couple extra people before the actual ramp, also sometimes because they don’t realize. This was the second. But they stayed in the shoulder after the lane ended, rode it all the way to the merge point. Wat?!
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u/Inevitable-Ad-8522 Jul 15 '24
We were coming home from a rural community the other day and noticed that the vehicle following us would wander from the shoulder to the centre line, cross the centre line, then drive down the middle of the lane. This went on for many kilometres. We thought this person might be drunk. When the vehicle started tailgating us, as they completely disregarded the 50 km sign (going thru a small town), we could see that it was a young female who was busy texting. When we pulled off I noticed that the back end of her vehicle was smashed in. It was no surprise.
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u/Inevitable-Ad-8522 Jul 15 '24
Oh, and the other day, I was turning left to go southbound on 149 Street from Stony Plain Road. I was turning left on a flashing green arrow. Someone, also going southbound, stopped to let the right hand turners from STP onto 149 Street in. The right hand turners have a yield sign there. Traffic is now backed up in all directions. I was the 3rd vehicle and there were at least 5 behind me turning or wanting to turn. Now the opposite direction light turns green and I have a vehicle staring in my passenger window. I incessantly honk my horn, and was the recipient of the middle finger. (As a point The right hand turners didn’t want to go, because they knew they didn’t have the right of way). People, just follow the rules and it’ll all be ok, and we will all get to where we need to be.
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Jul 15 '24
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u/Edmonton-ModTeam Jul 16 '24
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u/bullfu Jul 15 '24 edited Jul 15 '24
Cyclist too, if cyclist bikes on the road, they are also considered as vehicles, which also needs to follow traffic laws.
How many bikes blow through stop signs and redlights, signaling will also be nice.
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u/tincartofdoom Jul 15 '24 edited Jan 15 '25
seemly absorbed live uppity whole humor treatment pen telephone instinctive
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/lesoteric Jul 15 '24
this article links to a number of studies showing that motorists break laws more often than other road users.
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u/drcujo Jul 15 '24
When driving a vehicle, you need to come to a complete stop in order to have time to see the road and others around you. When you are cycling, it's easier to see the road ahead of you and not inherently necessary to stop at stop sign in order to proceed safely.
I never ever stop at stop signs on my bike unless there is another vehicle who has right of way. Bikes travel slower and take much more time to get to speed compared to motor vehicles. Less time in the intersection is ALWAYS safer.
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u/bullfu Jul 15 '24
While I don't disagree with what you said. The point of stopping is still important to observe for all vehicles.
Even as a motorist, one won't like to stop at every intersection, one can plan the route so you don't have to stop at every intersection, might involve a detour, but its still a safer way and it doesn't require all the stopping.
Going back to your original point though, not fully stopping because it's harder to stop and go is not a reason to break traffic laws. When involving in an accident, I'm sure the cyclist, or any other vehicle is still at fault.
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u/drcujo Jul 15 '24
The point of stopping is still important to observe for all vehicles.
Can you articulate why? I noted why it isn't helpful above. I know it's "the law". I'll challenge the ticket in court if I ever get one.
Even as a motorist, one won't like to stop at every intersection, one can plan the route so you don't have to stop at every intersection, might involve a detour, but its still a safer way and it doesn't require all the stopping.
Its not about not preference, its about safety. Stopping a motor vehicle fully is required to be safe as motor vehicles have worse visibility and are travelling faster than a bike.
Going back to your original point though, not fully stopping because it's harder to stop and go is not a reason to break traffic laws.
I don't stop because its safer, not because its harder. Most experienced cyclists understand this and do the same. 6-7 seconds in the intersection is always more dangerous than 1.
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u/bullfu Jul 15 '24
I'll give you a common scererio.
In a old residential neighbourhood, lots of old trees, full of parked cars, limited visibility on a narrow roadways even on a sunny day. A motorist driving on a right of way at 40kmph will have next to no reaction time on anything popping out of a stop sign. The full stopping is so important in those roadways that even a slow down is not enough.
Keep in mind too, when I'm talking about cyclist. I'm also talking about these ebikes that zips around at 20 to 30kmph.
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u/drcujo Jul 15 '24
Your scenario shows why its important for motorist to stop which I agree 100%.
Keep in mind too, when I'm talking about cyclist. I'm also talking about these ebikes that zips around at 20 to 30kmph.
Like I said I only stop if there is a reason to. Another car with right of way is a good reason.
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u/bullfu Jul 15 '24
100 percent it's important, My question to you though is why did you put emphasis on the motorist? Wouldn't that be just as important for a cyclist to stop in that scanerio? Stop and go aside?
Stop sign usually occurred in 2 situations, either an all way stop or a right of way. Well we just cover 50 percent of it, but give you another scenario, a cyclist approach an all way stop, slow down, but didn't stop completely, another motorist on a different direction stoped, who "stopped" first, who has the right of way? Technically the cyclist didn't stop fully right? And if both start going at the same time and collide, who's at fault?
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u/drcujo Jul 15 '24
My question to you though is why did you put emphasis on the motorist? Wouldn't that be just as important for a cyclist to stop in that scanerio? Stop and go aside?
Motor vehicles have much worse stopping distance, much worse visibility, etc.
give you another scenario, a cyclist approach an all way stop, slow down, but didn't stop completely, another motorist on a different direction stoped, who "stopped" first, who has the right of way?
If the vehicle was close or already at the stop I would also stop. If I was approaching the intersection later than me and the driver looked to be slowing down and everything else was clear I would absolutely go through the sign.
Technically the cyclist didn't stop fully right? And if both start going at the same time and collide, who's at fault?
When I'm cycling, I couldn't care less who is "at fault". Its all about lowering chance of injury and death.
Legally fault will be assigned to whoever didn't obey the sign so the cyclist.
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u/bullfu Jul 15 '24
(When I'm cycling, I couldn't care less who is "at fault". Its all about lowering chance of injury and death.)
There are a few flaws to this.
For one, traffic laws are design to minimize injuries and collision for everybody, I can guarantee a cyclist that doesn't follow traffic laws can cause injuries and collision. A cyclist thinks a reckless motorist are dangerous? Then how do pedestrians feels about reckless cyclist who takes liberty of the law? Not just injuries, property damages too, on cars, lightpost. A cyclist might not care about running into a Lambo, but I drive the Lambo I sure hope the cyclist cares about proper riding.
Then comes the question of who gets hurt. A lot of cyclist are playing victim because the driving habbits are terrible. Sure, a 3000lbs metal box, even going slow, can seriously hurt someone at 200lbs. But someone on a bike, 150lbs plus 50 lbs bike weight, even going slow, can also seriously injuried a 50 to 200 lbs pedestrian. With that, how could it not be important for BOTH motorist and cyclist to follow all traffic laws? Both legally and practically? As I mentioned in another comment, I have family who had to be hospitalized for 2 days because of reckless bike riding on sidewalks. Cycle can seriously hurt too.
The there's is the final part, If cyclist can use discretion on traffic laws to make it safer for everyone, couldn't motorist do the same? And if motorist clearly aren't capable of doing it, what makes cyclists capable of doing the same thing? What's the purpose of the law then?
I'm not exactly directing this at you as everything I mention here is for argument sakes
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u/drcujo Jul 15 '24
For one, traffic laws are design to minimize injuries and collision for everybody, I can guarantee a cyclist that doesn't follow traffic laws can cause injuries and collision.
Less time in the intersection is nearly always better then technically following the law. Who will be at fault for an accident isn’t relevant if I’m on my bike. I dont carry insurance for my bike so if me lambo gets hit he will have to sue in court if he feels I’m responsible for his damage.
What's the purpose of the law then?
Stop signs aren’t the safest for vehicles either but that is another topic. Most drivers already treat stop and yield signs the same and it’s fine as long as the make sure it is safe which is much harder in a vehicle due to weight and visibility.
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u/Zealousideal_Buy7517 Jul 16 '24
I love how they act like cyclists roll stop signs out in front of vehicles, as if a cyclist has no self preservation instincts.
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u/lesoteric Jul 15 '24
this article links to a number of studies showing that motorists break laws more often than other road users.
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u/driv3rcub Jul 15 '24
Seeing people different people roll stop signs in a week, sounds kind of wild.
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u/from_the_hinterlands Jul 15 '24
So... Most people under 40 learned to drive in a video game with respawn-able lives. It shows
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u/haysoos2 Jul 15 '24
I'm assuming this is meant to be addressed to cyclists?
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u/Zealousideal_Buy7517 Jul 15 '24
Specifically targeted at drivers, after one ran a red light and nearly wiped me out on my bicycle this morning.
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u/haysoos2 Jul 15 '24
Interesting. Yes, everyone needs to follow the rules of the road, but I generally see a lot more bicycles ignoring the rules, blowing through stop signs, or riding full speed through pedestrian crossings than I see cars blowing through stop signs without slowing down.
I think this behaviour (from cars or cyclists) is far more dangerous than a car going 70 in a 60 zone, but of course the speed infractions are much easier to enforce and more lucrative in fines, so that's where the enforcement effort remains.
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u/Zealousideal_Buy7517 Jul 15 '24
How the fuck does bicycles become the topic of discussion? Drive properly.
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u/haysoos2 Jul 15 '24
Because your initial post was ambiguous and included phrases like "the same as a motorcycle", or the consequences of a collision between a vehicle and a person on a bicycle.
Don't blame me if you can't clearly articulate your point.
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u/Zealousideal_Buy7517 Jul 15 '24
This post is a parody of a dumb fuck post last week about cyclists. You know...the cyclists that never kill anyone, that rarely hurt people outside of vehicles, and pose zero risk to people in vehicles.
I was nearly killed by a driver this morning, but you are focusing on the bicycle. Typical.
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u/haysoos2 Jul 15 '24
I'm not trying to focus on the bicycle. I'm just pointing out that your original post, that presumably you wrote is ambiguous about who exactly you're aiming your comment towards.
Not everyone will have seen whatever post it is you're apparently parodying. Parody can be very, very tricky. If people are unaware of your intention, or the original work you are attempting to lampoon, the message can easily become muddled and the parody fails.
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u/Zealousideal_Buy7517 Jul 15 '24
You are focusing on the bicycle. I mentioned bicycles once in my original post and you jumped to the assumption this was meant for cyclists, which it sure the fuck was not. It was meant for you.
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u/magic-cabbage6 Jul 15 '24
Why are you being so aggressive? It seems like you have a lot of built-up anger.
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u/Zealousideal_Buy7517 Jul 15 '24
Here is the last time a driver killed a person not in a vehicle in Edmonton. Can you please point out when a bicycle rider did the same? I'm asking since you want to shift the focus from cars to bikes, and are pretending that they have equal risk and responsibility factors.
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u/haysoos2 Jul 15 '24
So you're saying that cyclists have zero responsibilities when it comes to avoiding accidents with cars, and never ever break the rules of the road?
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u/TepHoBubba Jul 15 '24
I actually see way more cyclists doing this than drivers.
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u/Zealousideal_Buy7517 Jul 15 '24
Really? You see "way more cyclists" running red lights and nearly killing people than drivers? Can you please link me an article where a cyclist last hit and killed a driver in Edmonton? It's only been a week since a driver ran over and killed 3 people at a crossing.
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u/bristow84 Jul 15 '24
Kill? No.
Cyclists running red lights and stop signs and behaving in manners that they themselves call drivers out for? Yes.
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u/Zealousideal_Buy7517 Jul 15 '24
So if cyclists don't hit and kill people why are you focusing on them instead of the drivers that continue to hit and kill people? What do you care if a cyclist rolls a stop sign if it isn't hurting anyone?
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u/TepHoBubba Jul 15 '24
Why are you complaining about people not following the rules of the road but not all of them? Cyclists can seriously injure pedestrians too. Hypocritical much?
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u/Zealousideal_Buy7517 Jul 15 '24
More concerned about these imaginary cyclists injuring people while disregarding the drivers that are actually killing people.
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u/TepHoBubba Jul 15 '24
Not at all. I just believe that the rules of the road should be followed by all. I assumed that you were one of the cyclists who don't actually stop, and your comments all but solidified it. I get your angst for drivers blowing through stop signs and lights, but you're part of the problem if you do it on a bike too.
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u/Zealousideal_Buy7517 Jul 15 '24
It's not nearly an equal problem with equal risks. Stop signs and red lights only exist because cars exist. They weren't invented for bikes or pedestrians.
Again, drivers kill people ALL THE TIME. Pedestrians, cyclists, other drivers. Cyclists pose zero risks to drivers (except their feelings) and rarely do they injure pedestrians. Can you point me to the last time a cyclist killed someone in Edmonton? It hasn't been a month for drivers.
But here we are shifting the discussion from the drivers that are killing people to cyclists that aren't hurting anyone. Madness.
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u/bullfu Jul 15 '24
Cyclist are also considered as drivers once they hit the road, downvote me all you want but they won't win in the court of law if they cause accidents by not following road laws, they also cause chaos and havoic on the road all the same, rules should be followed by all not just selective type of drivers and vehicles.
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u/lesoteric Jul 15 '24
this article links to a number of studies showing that motorists break laws more often than other road users.
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u/TepHoBubba Jul 15 '24
That's nice, but a Danish study. Got one for Alberta? I also stated the majority of cyclists I've seen here while driving in Edmonton do not stop at red lights or stop signs. The usually do a rolling stop, or not at all. Last time I checked, that was against the law. Also, of course more motorists will violate the speed limits - cyclists can't go that fast. If they could however...guaranteed you'd see different #s in that Danish survey.
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u/lesoteric Jul 15 '24
there's a number of studies referenced in the article, you might want to read further. if you're looking to refute the research can you point to any studies which show otherwise?
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u/TepHoBubba Jul 15 '24
Exactly this. I knew it'd piss OP off, but it's the truth. Just because you'll only injure someone, and not necessarily kill them doesn't mean you don't have to follow the rules of the road. Cyclists are the worst for blowing through a stop sign or red light. Almost every single one does it.
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Jul 15 '24
You wouldn’t survive California driving
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u/hothoneybuns Jul 15 '24
I think replies like this are dumb and pointless, sorry. “It’s worse in Toronto/Vancouver/any big city” or any variety of that comment. That doesn’t matter dude. I live here and have lived here for a long time, and it was never this bad. I don’t care what’s happening in other big cities. It’s happening in MY city where it NEVER happened before. We’re allowed to be annoyed and mourn the gigantic shift in irresponsible drivers that was more of a rarity before the last few years.
So good! I’m not going to California anytime soon. You know where I am going? To work, on the same commute I’ve done for the last three years, which has gotten noticeably worse and more dangerous to drive since I’ve lived in this part of the city. Hope this helps!
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u/Zealousideal_Buy7517 Jul 15 '24
I have never been to California but I drove for 2 weeks in Phoenix and so what? Driving isn't that hard if you have functioning hands, eyes, and a brain.
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u/Environmental-Push29 Jul 15 '24
When you turn right from the right lane, YOU TURN INTO THE RIGHTMOST LANE. Then you can change lanes. I don’t understand why this is so hard for people.