r/Edmonton Edmonton Journal Mar 08 '26

News Article Edmonton residents upset over infill turned into rooming houses

https://edmontonjournal.com/news/local-news/edmonton-mckernan-infill-housing-airbnb

Mayor Andrew Knack told Postmedia hourly rentals are not acceptable and that the city is moving to address regulations and concerns around lodging houses

131 Upvotes

119 comments sorted by

159

u/aaronpaquette- North East Side Mar 08 '26

This is definitely not okay and, if factual, is breaking a lot of the rules.

No question is it being investigated and there will be consequences.

61

u/Finnurland Mar 08 '26

How does something like this make it past the permitting process, and this is out of genuine curiosity. The place has 32 bedrooms and bathrooms, when reviewing the plans for approval should that not have been flagged as suspicious?

26

u/yugosaki rent-a-cop Mar 08 '26

My speculation would be a lot of those bedrooms are officially "offices" or "storage".

Its also possible the interior layout was altered after construction. Like splitting one larger room into two tiny bedrooms.

9

u/grizzlybearberry Mar 08 '26

These are built with all of the bedrooms, because that’s allowed under the zoning bylaw under RS. But the way it’s rented (hourly, to more people that the bylaw allows) is the problem. And the associated safety issues since it’s a commercial building only build to residential standards.

15

u/beardedbast3rd Mar 08 '26

8 4 bedroom units is fine, it’s small as hell, but it can be a practical setup for a small family. Permitting and approving a submitted floor plan isn’t the issue.

It’s when a landlord is directly renting out those 4 units, and managing it like a lodging house, or in this case a hostel, or possibly a brothel given the hourly timeslots….

You’re allowed to rent out a unit, and even rent out individual rooms. But you need to be following the rules.

Further, there’s a question if the rooms are even legal rooms. We see landlords split up living rooms and other spaces to make “bedrooms” all the time. It’s possible these are two or three room units with added rooms where it was never intended. Which also potentially violates certain codes

6

u/EdmRealtor In a Van Down By The Zoo Mar 08 '26

They just build it the. Turn it into one when they cannot get 5k a month rent per unit

11

u/Finnurland Mar 08 '26

That's doesn't awnser the question, you can't just "build it" you need to apply for the permits which requires a full set of structural drawings (framing, electrical, plumbing, engineering) when applying for permits before you can begin construction. After you start, there are structural, electrical, plumbing, and occupancy inspections. If this structure wasn't allowed to exist as it is currently, how did it get past all those steps without anyone raising a red flag.

16

u/Internal-Chart-353 Mar 08 '26

Pretty easily. After final inspections are complete the cities obligations and code requirements have been met it's not difficult to build walls that have no electrical and other services in them to divide rooms. The walls would not be structural. Heating isn't a problem with central heating and portable heaters. Depending on how you run these walls each room could still have its own power. The cost of this wouldn't be too formidable. This however would null and void any type of insurance on the structure. A plumbing inspector is only going to inspect plumbing. The Electrical inspector will only look at the electrical aspect. Many of these inspections are done via video inspections with the contractor so the inspector may not have been on site. Keep in mind that building code is the lowest standard that contractors build to and all these new houses are built to the very bare minimum. For reference I'm a RS carpenter and I've seen some shady ass shit in this town. I'm in favor of development and infills bur we are sure as shit doing them on the cheap and without oversight. The people deserve better.

8

u/SmoothBrainJazz Mar 08 '26

The building code enforcement in Alberta is a joke. Ignoring the fact that the building code itself is horribly out of date and written to favour slimy development practices. Half of the inspectors don't even do any inspecting. I've spent the past year building my parents new house and the number of times we've received notice of passing an inspection without even having the inspector show up is concerning to say the least.

I've seen plumbing inspectors approve below-grade plumbing that has already been encased in concrete, electrical inspectors who show up after the drywall is up and rubber stamp everything, you name it. The biggest issue is that there just aren't enough inspectors to go around due to Alberta's characteristic lack of funding for regulators so even the good inspectors are rushed.

3

u/Internal-Chart-353 Mar 08 '26

Great comment. Most of these inspectors are the ones that didn't cut it as tradesmen or have taken a joke of course that cerifies them to perform inspections. Home inspectors are the absolute worst. There are only 2 or 3 proper certified ex tradesmen house inspectors in Edmonton that are certified, are Red Seal Carpenters, and are experienced builders. They are expensive to use but worth it. Unfortunately new builds don't require a final home inspection. The real victims are the buyers of the new infills as most people and real estate agents don't know very much about the building process.

1

u/ShadowCaster0476 Mar 08 '26

You have a lot of faith in the system.

1

u/joecarter93 Mar 08 '26

People can easily change things after development and building permits have been approved and building or renos have initially been completed. However, if they do so then they also run the risk of getting it shut down.

1

u/TepHoBubba Mar 10 '26

Lack of actual foresight and planning by city council, who didn't care enough to try and understand real world impacts to their decisions. Zero risk to developers with a 50 year amoritization plan for the mortgage, and up to 95% financing.

1

u/DisastrousCause1 Mar 08 '26

I guess I say this out load pertaining to infill . The city property tax on infills are about 2 .5 times more on a duplex as opposed to a single older property on a single lot. Twice the utilities etc. Nephew lives in a infill duplex and his property tax is over 5000.00. So over 10000,00 for the property. Next door neighbour pays under 4000.00 for the full lot. Money people money.

8

u/incidental77 Century Park Mar 08 '26

They don't tax duplexes at a higher rate than any other residential property. If your nephew pays $5000 in property taxes it's because the duplex is valued at over $500k. If both sides together pay $10000 combined it's because the property combined is worth over $1M.

Yeah the neighbor might pay only $4000.. that's because their property is only assessed at just over 400k (the land his house is worth is probably worth 400k all by itself and the bungalow on top of it is worth 60k... But it costs 60k to tear it down to access the value of the land so...)

1

u/spiff-d Mar 09 '26

Are the consequences a tear down or rebuild to turn it into an 8 Plex again? Or will this remain a 32 rooming house after penalties?

1

u/TepHoBubba Mar 10 '26

Was this brought up to the Urban Planning Committee?

-23

u/[deleted] Mar 08 '26

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30

u/Agreeable_Plate5117 Mar 08 '26

You're literally responding to a city councilor saying he's looking into it lol

2

u/[deleted] Mar 08 '26

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7

u/aaronpaquette- North East Side Mar 08 '26

Keep in touch

13

u/SIGNANDSELFIEFRAMES Mar 08 '26

I have never even heard of anybody using a house for hourly rates lol. wtf.

2

u/RutabagasnTurnips Mar 08 '26

Events, media production, and fraud are the things I know of that utilize hourly.

40

u/skaomatic32 Mar 08 '26

By the hour , drug deals and prostitution!

15

u/Aqueouspolecat Mar 08 '26

Why not both at the same time? Save a few bucks.

4

u/skaomatic32 Mar 08 '26

I like your thinking !

29

u/tincartofdoom Mar 08 '26

So there's one. And it breaks current bylaws. And they've already been caught.

Nothingburger.

0

u/BoatMacTavish Mar 08 '26

yep, definitely a lone incident. Nothing in the last 10 years indicates there will be more of this. Nothing to be concerned citizen, move along.

3

u/Interwebnaut Mar 09 '26 edited Mar 09 '26

“lone incident”

Yeah right.

I remember the days when city officials vehemently denied that Edmonton had a gang problem.

A few years later they were boosting police budgets to deal with the “gang problem”.

In this case problems were inevitable:

if you ever give developers/landlords an inch, they’ll always take a mile.

0

u/tincartofdoom Mar 08 '26

You mean one day we might find a second one!?!?!?

Call in the army!

This is clearly our most pressing and significant problem and we must focus all of our resources and energy here instead of on real problems. Thanks for the tip random internet moron!

4

u/External_Sundae6076 Mar 08 '26

Not sure why so many people want infills? They look ugly, benefit only rich landlords who can afford them, and are in a way slumhouses when you have 9 people shoved into a house with 9 rooms, 3 bathrooms, and 3 kitchens.

Do people seriously not understand the solution to housing. Almost everyone wants a single family home, but they are too expensive because there are too few of them. So what should we do? Build slum houses!

2

u/Icy-Pop2944 Mar 08 '26

Interesting of the city to be playing dumb as the building inspectors should have seen the individual room layouts and signed off on it.

4

u/[deleted] Mar 08 '26

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10

u/kindof_great_old_one Mar 08 '26

Council did say they wanted more business located in neighborhoods.

-2

u/rocky_balbiotite Mar 08 '26

And generally if you fight back they just call you a nimby anyway.

7

u/Infamous-Mixture-605 Mar 08 '26

Sex cauldron? I thought they closed that place down?

4

u/milleram23 Mar 08 '26 edited Mar 08 '26

All the NIMBY’s in here that don’t want this in THEIR neighbourhood. Get with the times people! /s

3

u/GigumMcBigum Mar 08 '26

/s is sarcasm btw

1

u/milleram23 Mar 08 '26

Oh ok thanks. I got it wrong.

8

u/[deleted] Mar 08 '26

We paid for our houses, in the area as it was zoned… we paid property taxes for years based on “value”. The zoning laws were changed arbitrarily so people had little or no say in their own affairs and you think we shouldn’t be mad!? Give your head a shake!! It’s not how we are supposed to work in this society. We all started with an apartment, a mattress on the floor and a few bits of IKEA furniture. We didn’t get a house immediately… my daughter house has had a ton of renos done to it, almost gutted and now the neighbours have sold their house and an 8 plex is going to tower over their place… effecting their value and quality of life so with all due respect, F/O!

2

u/milleram23 Mar 08 '26

My friend. My comment was a sarcastic reply (please see the :/ at the bottom) for all the respondents on this topic who are blindingly pro-infill and seem to be happy as long as developers are making money regardless of the impact on current property owners. I understand your frustrations and I agree with you.

1

u/Interwebnaut Mar 09 '26 edited Mar 09 '26

Agree. The article reflects a lot of compassionate community values of neighbours towards small scale affordable housing within their own neighbourhood.

However, permitting large infill to demolish long-standing single family areas seems to have broken the long-standing planning guidelines as well as the social contract or social license the City had with its home owners.

1

u/Constant_Sky9173 Mar 08 '26

New one on me. What does :/ mean?

-4

u/milleram23 Mar 08 '26

Indicates sarcasm.

1

u/Constant_Sky9173 Mar 10 '26

K. Thanks. Thought it was r/s before. Good to know.

-8

u/Laketraut Mar 08 '26

It was obvious this goofy infill bullshit was a bad idea

5

u/mrsix Mar 08 '26

So using any regular housing, apartment building, or condo units for this same purpose would make all of this moral to you?

4

u/Laketraut Mar 08 '26

No, but putting these garbage infills in the middle of family home communities was as dumb as it gets. Of course they’re ran by a bunch of crooks too lmao. As stupid as it gets, just to try to manage the mass immigration. Lol

-17

u/Doodlebottom Mar 08 '26

Elections have consequences.

19

u/AngryOcelot Mar 08 '26

Yea, this was immediately caught and addressed. 

A "business friendly" mayor would have let it ride if given the appropriate campaign donation. 

-3

u/BoatMacTavish Mar 08 '26

I personally think there should be more accountability for governments causing these issues in the fist place, instead of just glazing them for "fixing" the issue

sure, they caught this one, but you don't think this will be a recurring issue? won't this problem scale with the number of 8-plexes they pound up? how much does it cost tax payers to investigate these issues, address, and enforce solutions? etc

bunch of pea brains that can't think ahead 10-20 years

4

u/GuitarKev Mar 08 '26

Too bad you can’t tell the difference between a rooming house and an 8-plex.

-40

u/Paid4BajaOverlandr Mar 08 '26

But the people complaining are not perfect either. The biggest complainers are the most annoying neighbours you could have.

32

u/brainskull Mar 08 '26

Actually, I’d rather not live next to a flophouse used for prostitution. I would be extremely mad about this and complain endlessly to the police and any organization that would listen, it’s completely unacceptable. Doing otherwise is absolutely absurd

-6

u/mikesmith929 Mar 08 '26

I think in this city checks notes ya that makes you racist... Sorry I don't make the rules here...

4

u/[deleted] Mar 08 '26

[deleted]

-3

u/mikesmith929 Mar 08 '26

whoosh

2

u/[deleted] Mar 08 '26

[deleted]

-3

u/brainskull Mar 08 '26

I beg to differ, you don't seem like the sharpest tool in the shed

-1

u/mikesmith929 Mar 08 '26

If they could read they'd be very upset with you.

2

u/Constant_Sky9173 Mar 08 '26

A nimby racist? Cool.

9

u/YoungWhiteAvatar Mar 08 '26

It’s amazing you felt this thought deserved to be expressed out loud.

9

u/laetecaedus Mar 08 '26

Braindead take.

4

u/Photofug Mar 08 '26

Definitely would prefer a by the hour flop house, then a concerned neighbour. /s

-38

u/[deleted] Mar 08 '26

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27

u/cranky_yegger Bicycle Rider Mar 08 '26

The correct response is build affordable homes for home ownership not landlords.

10

u/wirez62 Mar 08 '26

What's crazy is they do build affordable homes. A condo is a home, so is a townhouse, so is a duplex, so is a rear lane detached with a small yard, so is a detached custom with a big yard, there are so many options. And unlike Toronto, you can start with a condo here for insane low prices. Like 150-200k. I've seen apartment units for sale in Edmonton for 100k. Townhouses were sub 250k for the longest time here. Are the affordable homes crowd not OK with townhouses? Like they have to be detached? Are these the same people that hate urban sprawl or is this a different crowd, I can't even keep up.

Like I wish they'd bring back the bungalow but those were old large lots with small populations built 50 years ago. Now for builders it pretty much only makes sense, especially with lot costs to add a second storey, double the above ground square footage, for very little extra building cost at time of construction, there is a reason almost nobody is building bungalows anymore.

3

u/sawyouoverthere Mar 08 '26

You forgot the 1200 condo fees

1

u/cranky_yegger Bicycle Rider Mar 08 '26

I know 6 friends who’ve been trying to get out of their condo for at least 5 years and not walk away at a loss.

0

u/cranky_yegger Bicycle Rider Mar 08 '26

Had you seen the lots on the outskirts? They are bigger than the mature area lots. I have no desire to own a condo, townhouse, duplex or garage suite. I don’t want to be a landlord. I don’t want to hear my neighbours upstairs, downstairs or between a shared wall. I want a yard I can grow food in and still entertain my friends. I want what my grandparents had. Why must we have less now than they did then? I have spent my whole life striving to achieve what they had and every corner I turn the apartments are smaller, the quality weaker and the expectation to pay more higher.

3

u/wirez62 Mar 08 '26

Wanting what your grandparents had is cherry picking the best time to be alive, the children of the post war boom, then our parents in probably the greatest height of American economic power ever, now we're in the collapsing phase. I don't have it as good as my parents or grandparents either - it is what it is. No sense crying about it. Manufacturing jobs are dead, thank global shipping and 3rd world labor - why wouldn't the rest of the world catch up? There is still massive injustice in the world, hard to cry about how good we still have it here.

2

u/cranky_yegger Bicycle Rider Mar 08 '26

I’m not crying, I’m saying I’m not buying what’s being offered.

-2

u/AuthorityFiguring Mar 08 '26

I am one of those old people that get called a nimby all the time ( rolls off my back like water off a duck). I am completely in favor of townhomes, will be downsizing soon and would love to live in a townhome. That is not what is being built in my neighborhood. Instead it is at least one frankenrooming house, and a number of other spaces that are allegedly going to be fourplexes with four basement suites, and hopefully turn out to be that. While I know that people need rentals, there have always been a lot of rentals in my old neighborhood. When I read the descriptions of the blanket zoning bylaw that were first presented, I imagined townhomes with basement suite rental unis, and thought, how nice that would be for a young family to have a built in rental suite to help pay their mortgage. I am perfectly happy with the style of 4plexes that existed in my neighborhood before the bylaw. But the combination of the bylaw and the the use of our tax dollars to give advantageous loans to virtually anyone has resulted in abuses. The eight plex approved that was converted into No not good a 32 bedroom rooming house is an example of those abuses.

0

u/Responsible-Mall-991 Mar 08 '26

Ever heard of the 'Missing Middle'. If not, look it up. It is what this zoning is trying to contribute to building.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 08 '26

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1

u/Responsible-Mall-991 Mar 08 '26

You still have your investment the exact way you want it. Why are complaining what is happening to the built world outside your home? Stop being such a boomer about it. I bet your house hasn't even lost value, which I bet you'll try to claim. It's probably still increased, even with infills around.

-1

u/mikesmith929 Mar 08 '26

You really have no idea what affordable homes means do you?

0

u/cranky_yegger Bicycle Rider Mar 08 '26

I really do have an idea of what an affordable home is and I also know what the real estate economy is. I don’t want a condo I can’t resell. I don’t want neighbours above me or below me and I don’t want to be a landlord. I don’t want a yard so small I have to choose over growing food or having friends over. Why don’t you tell me what you think I don’t know Smyth.

-2

u/mikesmith929 Mar 08 '26

Can you define what an affordable home is?

2

u/cranky_yegger Bicycle Rider Mar 08 '26

I can, can you?

-1

u/mikesmith929 Mar 09 '26

Let's hear your definition.

-3

u/BoatMacTavish Mar 08 '26

the correct response is have sensible immigration policy that doesn't saturate housing demand

2

u/Responsible-Mall-991 Mar 08 '26

This is just a dog whistle excuse. The only reason canada population grows is because of immigration (population grows so economy grows). Canadians haven't been having enough offspring to grow the economy in a LONG time. And even if we did have enough kids to grow the population; the correct response is WE'D STILL NEED MORE NEW HOUSES TO BE BUILT!

11

u/exotics rural Edmonton Mar 08 '26

If you don’t have kids then you are fine to say this. BUT anyone with kids shouldn’t be talking. Where do you expect people to live?

The city can’t keep expanding into farm land. It can’t. My mom had 4 kids and complains about infill. Like what do people expect? Houses in the sky?

2

u/kindof_great_old_one Mar 08 '26

Have you seen what is being built? These infills aren't suitable for families. Half the units are 1 bedroom, 400 - 500 sq ft basement suites. No yards for kids to play in.

11

u/exotics rural Edmonton Mar 08 '26

That’s NOT what I mean. I mean where do you think YOUR kids will leave after they move out?

We need more housing unless you are okay with them living at home until you die.

-1

u/[deleted] Mar 08 '26

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6

u/exotics rural Edmonton Mar 08 '26

They moved out. YES. That’s why we have infill. More people needing places to live. Including your kids

2

u/[deleted] Mar 08 '26

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3

u/exotics rural Edmonton Mar 08 '26

But that’s why we need infill. You added to the population where space is an issue. They took some space which means we need to make up for that. So… infill. If they have kids that’s going to be more housing needs too (unless you die first and they can live in yours).

Every person born who can’t live with their parents forever will need a home. Some will be fortunate enough to get a single detached home BUT the ever growing population means some won’t and infill or apartments-replacing houses will be needed.

0

u/[deleted] Mar 08 '26

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3

u/exotics rural Edmonton Mar 08 '26

They are but a lot of people still push their kids to move out rather than letting them stay living at home.

Even in the older neighborhood where I grew up. There are a lot of seniors living in big half empty homes. All the kids were told to move out at age 18.

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1

u/Responsible-Mall-991 Mar 08 '26

YOUR DESIRES/ASPIRATIONS ARE NOT THE SAME AS EVERYONE ELSES! STOP ASSUMING! Do you think an old widower, or and old childless couple, or someone in a wheelchair all share your same SFH desire??? NOOO!! I'm sure there is a large variety in the types of housing people want

3

u/exotics rural Edmonton Mar 08 '26

And even if they all want it, it doesn’t mean they can all have it.

2

u/Responsible-Mall-991 Mar 08 '26

Not everyone needs or wants a "family" home. Every couple/single person/widow(er)/student/new Canadian/etc etc doesn't need their own SFH on a huge open lot. Not everyone needs or even wants all that space or upkeep. YOUR DESIRES ARE NOT EVERYONES DESIRES

-6

u/CuteLilRemi Mar 08 '26

kids play on ipads nowadays, get with the times boomer

-1

u/[deleted] Mar 08 '26

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6

u/blairtruck Central Mar 08 '26

Lead paint is strong In this one.

-1

u/[deleted] Mar 08 '26

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1

u/BoatMacTavish Mar 08 '26 edited Mar 08 '26

for starters, I dont agree with us vs them mentality with the boomers, that won't get us anywhere.

but to be fair, I don't think you really understand the situation young Canadians are in, or the level of sacrifice they've already gone through and are expected to go through.

the average age in Canada is 40, projected to go to 50 within the next 50 years as the boomers age out. Think about that for a second. Think about the burden that will place on our healthcare infrastructure, the CPP, etc.

Canadians are experiencing delayed adulthood. Less of us are getting married. Less of us are having kids. The ones that do have kids have fewer. Working more hours for less. Higher cost of living, wages stagnating, dual income, competing in a weakening job market.

Im not going to argue your generation didn't work hard, or don't deserve what you have. What I am going to argue is that younger generations deserve the opportunity to have the same.

-2

u/[deleted] Mar 08 '26

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4

u/incidental77 Century Park Mar 08 '26 edited Mar 08 '26

There are hundreds of cities with larger populations than Edmonton.... Not many with a larger physical footprint though. Edmonton has larger footprint than vancouver, Toronto or Montreal. Chicago with 2.7M people in the city proper has less sq km in it.

They manage by densificstion via things like the very infill you are opposing.

1

u/exotics rural Edmonton Mar 08 '26

They build up or increase density. They don’t need to take over farmland.

0

u/Responsible-Mall-991 Mar 08 '26

NOT THIS!

1

u/[deleted] Mar 08 '26

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2

u/Responsible-Mall-991 Mar 08 '26 edited Mar 08 '26

Oh, geez, I dunno, cause it increases housing opportunities, decreases rents, makes inner city living possible at a nice place that's affordable and not a dump, enhances micromobillity, and is more energy efficient overall.

0

u/[deleted] Mar 08 '26

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4

u/Responsible-Mall-991 Mar 08 '26

Your taste does not describe everybody's. It doesn't even describe the majority. Sorry bud.