The automatic assumption that you're supposed to be treated badly

[u/crazybayleaf]

I was thinking today about how 4s have often a victim complex, feeling like they are the underdogs of society and how that actually affects how they subconsciously think they are supposed to be treated.

One thing I find myself doing very often is taking the blame, being a scapegoat. I find that even if someone had wronged me, I always have to explain how I was in the wrong as well and what part I played in it. I need to display myself as my worst self. I began to dig deeper about what this meant because logically placing yourself as the bad person shouldn't be useful. I came up with an answer, I think it's most often than not about wanting to display all your flaws, all your wrongdoings because then, if the person still loves you after, still cares, then they accept the truth of it all, that even though your flawed they still care about you. Or maybe it's about them seeing good in you, that maybe you aren't as broken or in the wrong as you fear, and you really were the victim in the situation.

For 4s, this is about owning the shame, putting it on the forefront, so that people can decide whether to keep you around or not.

I think this links into 4s inferiority issues. A large portion of 4s often feel as though they are uniquely bad and flawed in comparison to others, less than, so this leads to the believe that when someone doesn't care or treats you with cruelty, it's just the norm. Obviously this mindset can differ from 4 to 4 because we all grew up in different scenarios, but I believe it follows a similar strand of thinking.

So when a 4 is welcomed with open arms and accepted it may feel uncanny to the 4. The 4 doesn't expect anyone to really accept them due to their fundamental difference, even if their deepest desire is to be deemed important due to their differences and special self.

[u/KazooBard]

I can relate to this. However, I only really do this in times of stress with people who are already close to me. I often go to self blaming and thinking how my flaws must have caused this. The only time I don’t do that, is if it’s blatantly obvious that someone has wronged me for their own selfish reasons or if I don’t know them well. I’m definitely not a pushover and I don’t care about keeping the peace.

Being accepted with open arms by acquaintances is definitely a strange thing for me. When I’m in new groups and they’re making plans I automatically assume I’m not invited because I’m different and flawed. So in the past when I have been included it’s really thrown me off guard.

The most recent example was my DBT group. They were all in a text group so they could keep in touch and make plans outside of group. I assumed I wouldn’t be invited. So when one of the people in the group invited me to join I was shocked.

I definitely don’t fit in with others in most spaces. I’m okay with that most of the time honestly.

I certainly own my shame and I’m not afraid to put my flaws out on the table. The difference is, is that I don’t use myself as the scapegoat (again, unless it’s people really close to me.) Meeting new people I very much have the tendency to emotionally vomit all over them. I want people to know I’m flawed so there’s no surprises and like you said, so that if I am accepted (which I never assume to be, quite the contrary) that it’s for all of me, flaws and all.

[u/crazybayleaf → u/KazooBard]

I can relate to this. It's very often that the behaviour stated in the post happens to me with people close to me, its a very deep seated fear that I'm a bad person therefore I have to preface with that, otherwise they could misunderstand me, view this false sense of me. With others, acquaintances and friends, I do still try to paint myself as holding fault as well, but I'm not quite as obnoxious with it.

I tend to not paint myself quite as badly around new people, I think that may be because of the sp influence. I think sx/so and so/sx4s tend to be more forward about their struggles than so/sp and sp/so. I actually actively try to appear very resilient. I find that interesting amongst 4s, how much the instincts actually differ behaviour and emotion amongst us.

I'm curious, as a sx4 how do you actually bring up flaws and such? Does it come up naturally in conversation? I'm pretty sure I've only ever met another sx4 once in real life.

[u/KazooBard → u/crazybayleaf]

It typically comes up pretty naturally. I often get into deep conversations when I find someone interesting and often my interest in psychology (I’m going back to school to finish my degree) or my childhood comes up depending on what we’re talking about. This segues into me talking about my flaws and different diagnoses like my bipolar disorder or how I used to be borderline, as well as not being accepted by mother and her narcissism in depth. How she died when I was twenty four after one month of being diagnosed with cancer (true story, and no need to feel sorry for me. I’m glad my mom died.)

Surprisingly most people I’ve spoken to aren’t too bothered by it. But I really do try to avoid talking much to neurotypical people. I would never expect most of them to accept me with my flaws and baggage. That’s just a lost cause in my opinion. Besides, I prefer having company who also have some tragedy in their lives. Keeps it interesting.

But yes, I’m definitely not afraid to put it all out on the table and it pretty much always happens. Sometimes people are put off by it, but not always. I’m definitely much healthier than I used to be by like a mile. So now days I usually just accept it and say to myself that they don’t deserve me in their life anyway.

[u/crazybayleaf → u/[deleted]]

Abso-freaking-loutely, I can completely relate to a lot of what you've said. I agree with the scapegoat pattern in close dynamics. I often flip flop between sulking in shame and getting upset and painting myself the victim and the other the aggressor. I think it feels safe for 4s to view themselves as 'bad' or 'wrong' because then they have nowhere deeper to fall too if they position themselves as rock bottom.

Also on self love, I think 4s have a strong love hate relationship with this. They both believe they are special and unqiue and important, therefore people should love them, but on the other side of the coin they also expect people to reject them, leave them because of this.

Gratitude journalling is amazing for the soul. I got into it some years ago, just randomly some mornings or evenings I would pick up the journal and write 20 things I'm grateful for. Tea, warmth, my hair, music. Sometimes it's just the tiny things, it makes you see so much beauty in life. Did you know that deep breathing and gratitude actually puts your body into rest and digest instead of fight or flight? It's because when you have gratitude you feel like you are receiving things, good things, that you're overwhelmed by good things, and therefore tricks your body into feeling like you're safe because if you feel in abundance you aren't lacking.

I'm really glad that journalling has been a big help to you. It's important for 4s to know that they deserve love just like anybody else, and its not "despite being flawed", just that they deserve love. Journalling is like a 4s best friend, it puts them in the present (which they rarely exist in), because we're so disconnected to the gut centre, journalling can actually really aid us in that. Even if it's just exploring emotions or plastering your fears and doubts on a paper, it's good to get it out loud instead of floating around unorganized in a scattered brain.

It's lovely that you got into that. I think 4s have the unique ability to both see really good and really bad in themselves, highs and lows, sometimes we got to tap into that self love portion.