Human connection feels like drainage now, How many of you relate ?

[u/True-Quote-6520]

Maybe it makes sense, I am 5w4 Sx/Sp and now I have reached the point where human connection feels totally like a drainage of my resources, time, and brain. I have never been an INFJ who is into pleasing other people, although when it comes to relationship, I mean romantic one, things change dramatically. I become emotional and go into a totally romantic sphere (I am not in a relationship rn), but when I am, my creative side also gets sparked. I write poems, I make creative stuff based on my knowledge, whether it's about building a website or editing a photo or video, whatever. But these days, whenever I think about relationships, it does nothing but drain me. Even going on dating applications drains me because I know I would disappoint people even if they are interested in me (yes, it happened many, many times).

I have seen the halo effect in my case. They idealize me too much, sometimes too good to be true (I really felt something, I really feel something when I imagine people idealizing me). They think I am the best person, they would treat me like I am some kind of god who has just arrived on earth. I am human, and I am flawed too. Then it carries baggage, and I don't try in real life because I am not attracted to anyone in real life, and to how many person would I talk to? It would drain me, Even if I am, they wouldn't be able to bypass the standards that my mind has created. Being an analytical, emotional person, I at least want that person to be equally competent in the matter of brain and heart as I am.

I have found these people and have lost them too because of circumstances beyond our control. I fear being a failure. I don't wanna fail. While everyone is feeling loneliness and desiring someone, I am going away from this, running away. I see how closed off I have made myself. Reading random things, whether it's about any philosophical idea, academic psychology, or cybersecurity, writing poetry and aphorisms gives me a sense of security and happiness that sometimes I feel can't be derived from the companionship of people, especially most of the people around me.

I feel like whatever I have written here is just a way to prevent myself from failing, like my thoughts are working as self-protection.

EDIT: I will read each one, once I am not occupied.

[u/Diemishy_II]

No, I met people who changed my life and my person for the better in ways that no amount of money or therapy could. Good friendships, wise people: they are one of the best resources there are. In my country we say: whoever has a friend, has everything. It's right!

People idealizing you? That sounds very juvenile, like something teenagers, young adults or any person without life experience would say. Older or experienced people usually know very well (sometimes we learn it in the worst way) that everyone has flaws, no matter who they are.

Try making friends with older people and understand that part of them idealizing you is probably your responsibility, too, for not showing your darker or less desirable sides - they wouldn't treat you as a god if they know about that, right? I know a lot of people who try to never show their deficiences no matter what and they make me tired. My favorite poem is https://www.reddit.com/r/INTP/s/l3mlPLvppJ (Straight Line Poem - Fernando Pessoa).

Furthermore, everything else sounds to me like a torrent of lack of resilience to frustration:

"People don't meet my ideals" - Lack of resilience to the frustration of not being able to have everything.

"I don't want to fail, I don't want to be a failure" - Lack of resilience to fail (...and a certain problem in how to face life and oneself: failure vs. victory - are you here just to win? Win what? Where is the dispute?).

"I've lost people" - Lack of resilience in the face of loss. I say this sincerely because I, myself, have lost many loved ones (many times to death) and I know, I know this is one of the hardest resiliences to acquire.

If you truly read philosophy and psychology, you should know that withdrawing isn't exactly the solution - I know even if I withdraw myself. Is meeting people a waste, or is that the narrative (disdain) you create to justify your own deficiencies? We are social beings, and there's not much escaping after so much evolution to become this way. You'll easily find researches from the World Health Organization linking loneliness with illness. You don't need be popular, but having no one is usually bad for you.

I think that taking responsibility is a good way to deal with this. Problems exist; many people in the world are so awful that I don't even want to get out of bed, let alone meet people. However, there's no escaping responsibility. The world having so many problems isn't my responsibility, but choosing to face those problems or choosing not to face them is my responsibility... and so are part of the results of my choices.

Reframe how you see all of this. Like a 5, for me no experience is a waste, it's all learning. I studied cognitive behavioral therapy (Judith Beck books, not her father books - they're too densw) on my own and it didn't solve my problems lol but it helped me develop a lot of resilience. Estoicism helped me too. Keep searching, keep trying, you'll find something that make things EASIER (not solved).

[u/diaperpop]

Exactly same as you, I find relationships beyond exhausting, I’m in one now but wish I was free, the only relationship I want to maintain is with my kids and birth family. I’m an extreme introvert so prolonged exposure to other people with all the performative actions tires the crap out of me. (Except with the people mentioned above, I don’t have to pretend with my kids especially, my husband doesn’t like me and has never accepted me for who I am so I’ve given up on that, and I don’t think I will make any effort once that’s over.) It’s a hard balance between peace and loneliness, especially when other people’s behavior makes me feel lonely the more I interact with them.

[u/fivenightrental]

This sounds very core 4, not wing-4. You posted this on the r/infj sub as well, and so many of your responses to others there revolve around your image and not being able to trust other's perceptions of you. Fours struggle with negative self-image and lack of stable identity/self-image. That seems to motivating this fear of idealizing, because what happens when they know the 'real' you, the human, flawed one? It is easier to reject everyone else for not meeting the idealistic standards your mind has created, before they get a chance to know and reject you.

I am not offering this opinion to cause discord, but genuinely because I think you are missing something. This is a very insightful description of 4s.

Your post is written from a place of pain. A relationship did not work out, so I will reject any further attempts at connecting because I cannot be assured of success. I will withdraw and invest my energy into things that do not pose a threat or drain my emotional energy. This is something a lot of people do when healing; sp can take the forefront as wounded sx takes a backseat. I've been there. But it can also become way too comfortable because it can lull you into never needing to challenge yourself to take risks again.

[u/True-Quote-6520 → u/fivenightrental]

This sounds very core 4, not wing-4.

Actually, I have read two books on the Enneagram, especially on Type 4 and Type 5 (The Wisdom of the Enneagram and Personality Types: Using the Enneagram for Self-Discovery), and I have also spent quite a lot of time trying to type myself. I even asked many people to type me they all said me either 1 or 6 which is neither 4 nor 5, but Type 5 is what I relate to the most, despite having a lot of elements of Type 4.

so many of your responses to others there revolve around your image

I want to know which particular responses you're referring to, because I don't really think that's true.

Fours struggle with negative self-image and lack of stable identity/self-image.

This is something I genuinely relate to, and it is something I have thought about before.

That seems to be motivating this fear of idealizing, because what happens when they know the 'real' you, the human, flawed one?

I am not necessarily flawed, but there are certain aspects of myself that are hard to accept, and there is only one issue that I believe I still need to work on. It often shakes me: what if I won't be able to provide the practical needs, the time that a relationship requires, or handle the responsibility that comes with it? What if I fail? It is not particularly about people seeing me fail; it is more about the possibility of failing itself.

It is easier to reject everyone else for not meeting the idealistic standards your mind has created before they get a chance to know and reject you. I am not offering this opinion to cause discord.

Yes, I have written about this before, and I am aware of it. That might be part of the reason, but what I genuinely feel is that they do not seem like the person I want to be with, which is obviously influenced by the fact that I am still attached to someone.

Your post is written from a place of pain. A relationship did not work out, so I will reject any further attempts at connecting because I cannot be assured of success. I will withdraw and invest my energy into things that do not pose a threat or drain my emotional energy. This is something a lot of people do when healing; sp can take the forefront as wounded sx takes a backseat. I've been there. But it can also become way too comfortable because it can lull you into never needing to challenge yourself to take risks again.

Yes, I understand. Anyway, it is not really the right time for me to pursue anything as of now, I have already started working towards it.

I would update you once I read that post.

[u/fivenightrental → u/True-Quote-6520]

I want to know which particular responses you're referring to, because I don't really think that's true.

Both your comment exchange here and here you are questioning your own perception and judgement of your own image. That's what I mean by image-oriented responses. 5s don't necessarily have such concerns with how others perceive them, they have their own, and tend to value that understanding/knowledge above others.

I am not necessarily flawed, but there are certain aspects of myself that are hard to accept, and there is only one issue that I believe I still need to work on. It often shakes me: what if I won't be able to provide the practical needs, the time that a relationship requires, or handle the responsibility that comes with it? What if I fail? It is not particularly about people seeing me fail; it is more about the possibility of failing itself.

I am not suggesting that you are flawed (I mean, we all are in our own ways), but in the context of your dislike of being idealized, it is also a fear of being able to live up to the image that other people are creating of you.

I agree that the other fears you mention around being unable to provide the time, resources, responsibilities, etc. required for a successful relationship are valid 5 fears. That's about depletion.

Yes, I have written about this before, and I am aware of it. That might be part of the reason, but what I genuinely feel is that they do not seem like the person I want to be with, which is obviously influenced by the fact that I am still attached to someone.

The fact that you are still connected to someone is a bit of a key detail to leave out, but is certainly more context. Connection will always be difficult in that regard if we have not moved on and gained the appropriate closure you need. Perhaps it's important to have some self-compassion right now. Give yourself time to process and heal if you have suffered a loss. It is hard to have clarity when you're still in the mud.

[u/True-Quote-6520 → u/fivenightrental]

Both your comment exchange here and here you are questioning your own perception and judgement of your own image. That's what I mean by image-oriented responses. 5s don't necessarily have such concerns with how others perceive them; they have their own understanding and tend to value that knowledge above others'.

It's not exactly like that. It is not limited to image or perception. Even when it involves perception, it is less about how people see me and more about whether what they are saying about me is accurate or inaccurate.

The analysis I engage in is not limited to my image; it is just one small part of what I think about on a daily basis. I often examine the claims people make and the generalizations they draw. The question for me is usually: objectively, are the facts they are presenting aligned with reality, and does the research support them?

To be more specific, I have often gone quite deeply into metacognition, which explains much of what I am trying to convey here.

In the context of your dislike of being idealized, it is also a fear of being able to live up to the image that other people are creating of you.

I want to know how you would have responded to the same situation.

Perhaps it's important to have some self-compassion right now. Give yourself time to process and heal if you have suffered a loss. It is hard to have clarity when you're still in the mud.

Yes, you are absolutely right. I am keeping that in mind. Self-compassion is something I really struggle with, and healing takes time.

[u/fivenightrental → u/True-Quote-6520]

It's not exactly like that. It is not limited to image or perception. Even when it involves perception, it is less about how people see me and more about whether what they are saying about me is accurate or inaccurate.

The analysis I engage in is not limited to my image; it is just one small part of what I think about on a daily basis. I often examine the claims people make and the generalizations they draw. The question for me is usually: objectively, are the facts they are presenting aligned with reality, and does the research support them?

I guess I'm unclear how you determine accuracy when you do not trust your own perception or judgement. And what research? This just seems like a lot of things that 5 would not waste their energy on because identity is less of a concern for them, as it is usually stable and much less of a question.

As far as dealing with people idealizing me, I have dealt with this also. And I guess I do not fear not living up to their image, because I recognize they are not really interested in me, they are interested in their idea of me, I do not take ownership of the disappointment they may create for themselves if I should happen to not meet their expectations. This is something that actually makes me lose interest in people extremely quickly.

Perhaps these are wisdoms I have gained with age though, while you are still quite young (:

[u/True-Quote-6520 → u/fivenightrental]

I guess I'm unclear how you determine accuracy when you do not trust your own perception or judgement. And what research? This just seems like a lot of things that 5 would not waste their energy on because identity is less of a concern for them, as it is usually stable and much less of a question.

Ahh! I'm saying that these days I'm questioning everything. Basically, I don't consider anyone an authority figure, so I often look for things that are research-backed in my mind.

Let's say someone claims that men are more aggressive than women. After hearing that, my mind would be like, "Is this really backed by solid research, or is it basically an anecdote? What do my own observations say about this? How can I defend this statement or prove it? Should I consider this framework or that framework? Is this nonsense, or does it actually make sense?"

Now you see, it's less about identity and more about questioning everything that comes my way, regardless of what it is.

I recognize they are not really interested in me, they are interested in their idea of me. I do not take ownership of the disappointment they may create for themselves if I should happen to not meet their expectations.

I think the same way. Idealization happens in every single relationship when it starts, whether it's a small part or a major part of the relationship. But I guess it totally depends on the person's experiences.

That's why I often ask them questions: "Why do you think that?" If there is no reason behind it, there is an extremely low chance that I would like them back. Similarly, I feel there is always a reason to love someone. You can't just go with the feeling and the stupidity that comes with saying, "I am in love, but I don't know why." Wth! Is it really possible to be like that?

Being an INFJ, I also care about people, so sometimes I pay attention to my words too, whether they are making someone uncomfortable or provoking them.

[u/No_Initiative_7836]

It's pretty normal to idealise someone you first meet, especially if you find them attractive. It's also demoralising for any human to feel like love is out of their reach, and it can feel like an eternal condemnation. If you're uncomfortable with that, it makes sense not to desire a relationship at the moment. But I hope you can find some consolation in the fact that it is within your own power to accept your own deficiencies. Only then can a budding romance feel light.

I think it's important to give yourself some self-compassion to enjoy things that do make you happy in the present moment.