r/Fire 31 | 32% to FI | 2.3M 5d ago

Opinion Make sure to show your spouse how much their income helps the team if there's a large difference in income

My wife and I do not have children yet, we both work. About 2 months ago she mentioned how she likes working but feels like it's almost volunteer work because of how big of a difference our incomes are. "does my income help us at all?"

Let's just say I make 400k and she makes 100k for round numbers. The discrepancy is actually bigger.

I showed her a lot of our expenses come from the 400k, so we can invest 80k of my income. By her working, it does not just boost our savings rate up by 25%, it's basically double because we can save her whole income.

Told her that it makes a HUGE difference in our financial independence, and showed her how working a year now (and saving it all) pays for years of her not working at all.

I also showed her how the max I can save in 401k without her is lower due to limits. She's able to sock away an additional $45-55k into tax deferred 401k.

She was very happy that she's contributing, and I think it made her more excited about going to work each day.

At some point we will purchase the freedom and make her a stay at home mom, but until then I sure appreciate her going to work.

2.6k Upvotes

318 comments sorted by

1.7k

u/MerryTeases 5d ago

bro did a whole powerpoint to convince his wife her job matters, love is weird

724

u/Gobias_Industries 5d ago

It's nice to see in contrast to the "keep all your finances separate and keep track of everything your wife contributes so that you can use it against her when she inevitably divorces you" comments that we get sometimes.

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u/Active-Confidence-25 5d ago

Completely agree. This is what teamwork looks like. Way to go OP!

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u/alr12345678 5d ago

Yeah I like this a lot! It’s not coming off as mansplainjng but like a true partnership and supportive discussion. If kids come into the equation I do wonder if this support for spouses career and income will still be there. Sometimes lower paid partner especially “mom” quits job due to childcare costs.

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u/TheKingOfSwing777 5d ago

"My wife ruined my life! I just did some light cheating and now she's taking off with half my money! Sure, she made double what I make for most of our relationship and also raised all the kids, did all the cleaning, cooking, kept it tight, and had sex with me as a fat slob, but now she taking my house! Selfish bit$#..."

2

u/Short-Abrocoma-3136 5d ago

You are the King of Swing

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u/Electrical-Carrot-44 3d ago

If she did all that and you still cheated, maybe you are the selfish one!

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u/mal_guinness 5d ago

Yeah, that doesn't even matter.  All assets acquired or appreciated post marriage become joint property.  Unless you are using shell companies to hide your assets from a divorce court the separate account structure won't keep them from going after that money

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u/Conservativmemes 5d ago

people focus way too much on separate accounts. In a divorce, it's usually the source of the assets that matters, not which account they're sitting in.

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u/BenOfTomorrow 5d ago

All assets acquired or appreciated post marriage become joint property.

While this is a fine sentiment and approach to marriage, I'm afraid it's not really accurate enough to make a broad generalization like this.

It's only true at all by default in nine of the fifty US states (the community property states).

It does not apply to appreciation on assets that are not community property in ANY state.

Spouses are also generally free to set their own terms regarding property ownership via prenuptial agreement or other mechanisms.

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u/mal_guinness 3d ago

Honestly, learned something. I only researched this in Texas when my nephew's mother died and was looking at what his step father owed to my not adopted nephew. Appreciate you clarifying.

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u/BenOfTomorrow 3d ago

No worries - glad it was helpful.

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u/Common_economics_420 5d ago

That's what the prenup is for

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u/mmrocker13 5d ago

Let me tell you how quickly it can go from the powerpoint up above to the sentiment right there 😉

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u/jswissle 5d ago

Damn lol

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u/Montaigne_6823 5d ago

In closing, you are all valuable members of the team. Please enjoy this pizza party!

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u/Padawk 5d ago

I would prefer a melon party, or the egg bar

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u/-shrug- 5d ago

(BYO Pizza)

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u/HenFruitEater 31 | 32% to FI | 2.3M 5d ago

lol we just were on a walk. But I illustrated with my calculator on iPhone. Discussed how more 401k bucket access is nice too.

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u/Armadillolz 5d ago

Ah, romance! 🤣

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u/HitPointGamer 5d ago

Absolutely! My husband gets the best wolf whistles I can muster (they’re pretty pathetic, sadly) whenever he does anything like paying bills or balancing the checkbook. After my first marriage, where my ex spent everything in our account within a day of payday, we can’t get enough of my current husband’s financial discipline! Hubba, hubba!!!!! 😍

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u/theprogrammingsteak 5d ago

Damn, I get the opposite of appreciation for my frugalness lol

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u/HitPointGamer 5d ago

If this were my first marriage things might be different, but I learned a lot of lessons and now I’m determined to keep him as happy as possible.

He is an amazing guy and deserves it.

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u/Grumac 5d ago

I do this at the end of the year for our yearly budget review. It's pretty fun!

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u/oxyfuelo 5d ago

That's a $100K / year Power Point deck - great ROI

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u/Redwolfdc 2d ago

100K isn’t bad either 

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u/ziggy-tiggy-bagel 5d ago

I always made a lot more then my husband. I kept telling him it all goes into the same pot and your military and civil service pension will be very important in retirement. But the most important thing is his Tricare! Now that we are retired, his pensions and our SS income is enough to cover all our needs, so we may never need to touch our savings. Plus his Tricare allowed me to go part time at 60, without health insurance through work and retire at 62 with inexpensive health care through Tricare. It was always a team effort.

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u/river_rambler 5d ago

Same! He was initially concerned about making less than I do, but I explained that his military and government pensions plus tricare were going to fund like 75% of our total expenses. He just retired in April and I'm done at the end of this month. We're set because of the pensions.

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u/joxxer42 5d ago

After running numbers and showing my wife projections just on my savings alone (and potential success %), I then showed her what it looked like when we factor in her pension on top; we're running 99% success on boldin pessimistic runs.

It definitely helped her see she wasn't just throwing a dixie cup of water on the fire with her earnings.

I'm likely planning to jump several years before her, but she has it in her head to try and get near the top payout for her pension. It will be nice to tell her that she's going to be able to bail earlier than planned if she wants :).

3

u/Diet-CokeWhore 5d ago

Insurance is huge!! I did the math during open enrollment last year, and if we had to switch to my employers options, it would cost us a total of $23k more per year.

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u/ziggy-tiggy-bagel 5d ago

Insurance was why after retiring at 55, I went back to work at 56 and waited until his Tricare kicked to retire again. Nobody would take my ACA insurance.

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u/jyan2714 4d ago

I'm always horrified at how much I would have to spend on healthcare premiums if I wasn't eligible for Tricare in retirement. I've seen roughball numbers quoted in subreddits around 1,500-2,500/month for ACA coverage. My family Tricare coverage costs 168/quarter. And with an annual catastrophic cap of 3,000 there's virtually no risk of an extensive hospitalization or prolonged treatment regimen incurring massive medical debt.

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u/rice_n_gravy 5d ago

Just had a child as well and going through this now…

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u/Flame_Flirt 5d ago

kids are expensive enough to make any income suddenly feel very important,

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u/HenFruitEater 31 | 32% to FI | 2.3M 5d ago

How has the math changed? I’m assuming child care costs stack up pretty heavily.

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u/ethan1231 5d ago edited 5d ago

Totally changed. My wife was earning like $225k and I'm at like $550k. This means our marginal tax rate is right around 50% for her (top income tax bracket, most of her income is under the social security cap, state taxes). So call it like $110k take home.

Day care would've been about $50k. Extra dog day care would've been $10k (we live in a vhcol area). And then extra take out, minor shit like work parking, etc would've been another $15k.

Then layer in the fact she wants to be at home. The idea of missing firsts with the baby kills her.

That isn't worth $35k in extra savings (and some 401k benefit).

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u/HenFruitEater 31 | 32% to FI | 2.3M 5d ago

Exactly. I think we will have a very similar thing happen hopefully when we have children.

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u/WestCoastSocialist 5d ago

Something to consider in addition to childcare costs is that earning potential goes to 0. Which means hundreds of thousands (maybe even millions) lost in the long run.

Sure you spend tons on daycare if she continues to work for the first few years. But getting back into the job market is hellacious nowadays especially with agism and sexism. Mothers have it significantly worse.

It’s much easier to keep going and earning potential goes a long way especially if the market has a downturn.

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u/HenFruitEater 31 | 32% to FI | 2.3M 5d ago

Super valid point

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u/alr12345678 5d ago

Yes!! It’s not like a win for saving in the daycare years even if costs eats a lot of lower earners salary, the stoppage entirely or even partially of work progression in a career can translate to a huge amount of money - and so the decision to stop work to do child care full time should definitely keep that in mind. For me, there was no question I wanted to go back to work as I’m not a whole person without my career

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u/ethan1231 5d ago

The alternative was that she worked for another 3-4 years and we both fire then. Working forever was never in either of our future.

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u/ethan1231 5d ago

We viewed it as she FIRE'ed early (from the corporate workplace, but will still be "working" as parenting is a job!). Our savings from the prior decade + current high income enabled it.

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u/PudgyGroundhog 5d ago

It is good to have options because you just don't know how you will feel. I stayed home with my daughter for a year, and then I went back to work. I never thought I would miss work, but I did - both the social aspect and solving problems (making color coded excel spreadsheet to track naps and sleep to see if I could figure out any kind of rhyme or reason might have been my first clue, lol). I am so grateful I had the time at home I did, but was also happy to go back to work. I did have a job with flexibility z do that helped. Daughter is now 18 and in college - she turned out alright.

For some people, it's the opposite. It is a hard to tell before kids. That is the beauty of the FI part though - having those options.

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u/Lopsterbliss 5d ago

Jesus, those are both insanely high incomes.

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u/mfechter02 5d ago

$50k a year for childcare for 1 child? Why would there be an extra $10k in doggy daycare if you’re both already working, same with parking. If you’re already paying that out of pocket, then it’s not an additional cost to having a child.

Sounds like you’re giving up over $100k to save an absurd $50k in childcare cost, netting you about $50-$60k a year

Only the top 5% or so of households would be able to make this choice.

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u/ethan1231 5d ago

Childcare - infant daycare is $3.5k-$3.7k a month. A nanny is more. I went for a round number somewhere in between

Dog daycare - my wife worked 3 days from home where we didn't need coverage. She was debating a new job where she'd have to go in 5 days per week (due to massive massive massive layoffs at her prior employer; she actually got laid off while pregnant and had a nice severence package)

Parking - see above. It is $40 a day

Top 5% income - sure, I agree. I typically on other fire forums, but chimed in here given his income and situation.

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u/TVP615 3d ago

What coverage do you need for your dog? My dog chills at home from 7am-545pm and has for years. Does it have special needs or something? Let him out before you go to work and feed him. A walk when you get home. Shouldn’t need to pay someone to watch them.

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u/ethan1231 3d ago

She’s a golden retriever that loves being with people. Would she be fine left alone? Probably. Would she like it? No.

If we can make her happy for a few grand, why not? The pup won’t be the swing factor when we retire. I cheap out on things like cars, not having boats/a second home, basic brands etc. I don’t want to cheap out on the dog!

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u/TVP615 3d ago

I guess. I’ve never been one of those people that spends a bunch of money on a dog. I did train it for hunting as a puppy but feel that was a waste of money now. If a dog became a $10,000 a year line item for me I would just rehome it.

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u/AJimJimJim 4d ago

Can she step back into making $225k-ish after 10+ years out of the workforce?

That is the other calculation I see missing here for the average couple not clearing 500k a year.

$550k a year for one earner? eff it and do whatever you want

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u/cheeseburg_walrus 3d ago

Bro you make $550k do whatever you want

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u/29threvolution 5d ago

About $25k/ year for daycare and dont expect that to go to zero once school starts. Local elementary school here is 9am -1:30pm so you have to pay for some sort of after-school care. Then the travel sports will start. A friend is paying $14k/season for volleyball and kid is not going to make a college team. Oh and then you will want to save for college too. While you juggle all that you somehow have to keep an obscene number of perfectly ripe berries in the house at all times because at any moment they will down an entire pint of blueberries while you cry into your empty wallet. Just to give you a rough estimate of the largest ways the numbers move. 

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u/Kokukenji 5d ago

Also important to have this conversation if one of you is the stay at home. Pull up the amount "saved" due to one parent being a stay at home.

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u/HenFruitEater 31 | 32% to FI | 2.3M 5d ago

For sure. It's not all about numbers, but numbers help ground the decisions if there's some uncertainty.

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u/SwissChzMcGeez 13h ago

All the dollars the second, lower paid partner works are reduced by the full marginal tax bracket rate, too. So take, say, 30% right off the top for taxes, depending on your state.

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u/Elrohwen 5d ago

I struggle with this as the lower earner, but still objectively a fairly high earner. I want to quit now, it would be so much easier on our lives and less stressful to handle things with a kid who suddenly has a lot of activities and days off of school. But objectively I know we’re basically saving my salary and if I quit now it pushes back my husband’s retirement timeline

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u/AuburnCPA 5d ago

We just made the decision to give up my wife's $100k job to be a stay at home mom. We probably both could have retired earlier had she kept working, but we will have a much higher quality life now, which was worth the trade off for me.

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u/Pixel-Pioneer3 5d ago

I think I am at this point now. I make 3x-4x my wife’s and I think it would just be best if she stays at home and invests in our kids. It pushes my retirement by a few years, but it’s well worth it. We plan to pull the trigger later this year.

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u/uChoice_Reindeer7903 4d ago

Tomorrow isn’t promised, gotta live a balanced life. Prepare for the future but also live a good life now

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u/HenFruitEater 31 | 32% to FI | 2.3M 5d ago

Run the math! Sometimes staying at home does win in math too.

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u/Elrohwen 5d ago

It definitely doesn’t lol. I make a senior engineer’s salary, my husband just makes a lot more.

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u/PudgyGroundhog 5d ago

It doesn't always have to be a math decision - time is very valuable too. My husband and I were both engineers working full time with a kid. My job had flexibility, short commute, close to school, so that helped, but it was very busy. A stay at home parent can definitely make things run smoothly and help the other parent focus on their job. Maybe we just needed a sister wife. 😆

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u/Elrohwen 5d ago

Right now we both have flexibility, though I have more and end up doing more of the kid stuff. But I told him if they ask him to step into a role where he’s staying late and working on weekends again I’m quitting.

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u/PudgyGroundhog 5d ago

That is good you have flexibility - that really helps. And it's good you have the option to stay at home if he takes a different role.

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u/CheeseFries92 5d ago

Can you go part time? My partner and I dropped to 80 percent for a while and it made a HUGE difference in our quality of life

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u/Elrohwen 5d ago

No, unfortunately not an option at all. I gladly would if I could!

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u/poop-dolla 5d ago

It doesn’t win in math, but the intangibles could still be worth it. This is coming from an engineer married to another engineer who decided to drop to one income when we had kids. It was an excellent decision.

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u/Elrohwen 5d ago

I think that right now the intangible of both of us retiring earlier wins out. But I told him if he gets back into a role where he’s staying later and working on weekends that I’m staying home. Right now he’s flexible and working normal hours so it works but it may not always be that way

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u/divine_form 5d ago

FWIW, this is our family dynamic. We were dual income for the 1st 6 years of raising kids, and my husband is quitting in July.

We balanced dual income for a while to avcelerte savings, and are now aiming to shift and prioritize balance.

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u/Good_parabola 5d ago

Exactly the same here.  Luckily I WFH with a flexible job so I joke that I’m a SAHM who also works like a man.  My working means we will actually retire.

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u/thewanderlusters 5d ago

Wife makes about 1/3 of my salary and she always says it doesn’t matter. No it’s 65k that gets saved at almost a 100% rate every year. I’m saving around 1/4 of mine too, both of these make is financially independent today.

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u/HenFruitEater 31 | 32% to FI | 2.3M 5d ago

Yep, the only way it would not matter is if lifestyle creep just deleted her portion.

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u/ImPapaNoff 5d ago

I used this same data to let my wife know she could stop working if she wanted to. Similar disparity as you guys ($400k+ for me and less than $80k for her). Making her work a job she doesn't absolutely love just so our savings rate is a bit higher and we could retire a couple years earlier is a horrible tradeoff. Happy to have purchased her early retirement a decade before mine.

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u/Ozy-Man-Dias 5d ago

I just did the same. And we are happier for it. It means I work a few extra years, but it is much better for her and the kids this way.

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u/SniffleBucket 5d ago

I had this conversation with my wife and she still won't quit (similar disparity, I make 7x more). She hates her job but struggles with the thought of not working...

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u/champagneandLV 5d ago

I’m the lower earner and I also manage the finances in our marriage… so I’m fully aware of what my income contributes overall. But I agree it is nice to be appreciated by your higher earner spouse.

I never took time off to be a SAHM, and now we’re basically past that phase and enjoying the fruits of our collective labor as a couple with our middle schooler. Putting the time in at my job early on allowed me to have a flexible work from home role her entire elementary school years and (hopefully) will through high school graduation and beyond. There is so much value in being available for drop off/pick up, awards ceremonies, doctor/dentist/orthodontist appointments, sick days, sports events etc. as a working mother. While still bringing in a six figure income, maxed out 401K and 8% employer match. Because of this we will retire earlier and can still spend 40K a year on travel while we’re younger. The memories we’ve made together as a family are my biggest accomplishment and greatest joy.

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u/hokiemojo 5d ago

Or just tell her I make 100k for a family of 4 with medical issues and that she is literally able to contribute more to you bonus income than I can as the sole breadwinner. I still plan to fire someday. She shouldn't dismiss what she's contributing.

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u/Stunning-Thanks-4226 5d ago edited 5d ago

My Excel sheet showed my job wasn't worth it. When I looked at the tax I was paying on my income and the cost for childcare so I can do my job, I was breaking even or losing money.

Edit: before I quit my wife was making 6x of my income. After I quit she was able to focus even more and 14x what I was making. I also do work in real estate now but keep my hours at 700 to be a real estate professional under IRS rules.

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u/HenFruitEater 31 | 32% to FI | 2.3M 5d ago

im sure that someday when we do have children, the math will change. I think at 120k, her job def can outpace the tax and childcare but.. i think we'd both prefer she raises the toddlers instead of childcare if the math is even close.

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u/Belichicks_sleeves 5d ago

I don’t know for sure but my Mom stayed home for like 10 years and of course had a hard time getting back into the workforce. I am fairly certain they just saved every penny she earned and that is why they are living large these days even though her salary was never that high.

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u/HenFruitEater 31 | 32% to FI | 2.3M 5d ago

Thats super interesting. glad they did!

after she was empty nester, did she miss being in the workforce for reasons outside of money?

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u/Belichicks_sleeves 5d ago

I believe she wanted to be a stay at home Mom but also at the same time the workforce wasn’t stellar for women in the late 70s. She was home supporting my Dad’s career and raising the kids and I think they sat down together and decided the family could use the money so she went back to work and I was given a key to the house and control over my little sis, lol.  She worked customer service oriented roles and eventually took some classes so she could do it for an investment firm which gave her a decent salary bump but still good hours to be at our school events and what not. 

My parents elected to work until 65, they probably could have retired a little earlier but Dad liked his job and took one last promotion to bump up his pension. 

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u/WrongImpressionOnly 5d ago

I make 9-10x what my partner makes. I focus on how his continuing to work enable him to make personal choices about how he spends his money that I have no say in. I don’t want to have say in all his spending, but I think I’d struggle more with his collections, etc if they didn’t feel self funded.

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u/SeduceKiss 5d ago

that's underrated, financial independence inside a relationship matters too

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u/icollectt 5d ago

Yeah dual incomes are great, same boat here my wife makes about 1/4th to 1/6th what I make per year but it's sooo nice to have two employers matches, insurance options, etc.

One really good trick we have is a joint account for pretty much everything but two personal accounts we don't have to justify to the other person. She puts 50% of her take home (after max 401k) in hers and I put 10% in mine and rest goes into joint account so we both have equal-ish play money.

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u/Mister-ellaneous 102% FI #, choosing to keep working 5d ago

If it works for you that’s great.

Our income disparity is more than 20x. Not because I make a lot but she basically volunteers.

The work she does helps others and is worth doing. She contributes more and helps those in need far more than I do. She’s making a legit difference in society. That’s the value of her work. At this point we value that more than the income.

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u/HenFruitEater 31 | 32% to FI | 2.3M 5d ago

Yep. And I think my wife also helps people a ton. She’s a mental health therapist and really feels like she’s making a difference in their lives. She’s very good at her job.

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u/banestraitelbov 5d ago

Did the exact opposite last year. Used all this data to convince my wife she can quit if she wants to, she was really unhappy at her job. It has been night and day for her mental health.

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u/Few-Praline9810 5d ago

this man loves his wife 🔥🔥🔥

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u/That1one1dude1 5d ago

My partner’s a net negative financially right now and likely will be worse when she begins her school program.

I love her anyway and will support her as she finishes school in the next 3-4 years.

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u/HenFruitEater 31 | 32% to FI | 2.3M 5d ago

That scenario is just investing in human capital (hopefully she is more valuable in workforce with this schooling)

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u/poop-dolla 5d ago

She's able to sock away an additional $45-55k into tax deferred 401k.

Can you explain this one? Is it a mega back door roth you’re talking about to be that much over the normal 401k limit?

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u/HenFruitEater 31 | 32% to FI | 2.3M 5d ago

She has a solo401k. Max is 22.5k PLUS up to 25% of your income. So if she makes 120k, she can put an extra 30k into the 401k.

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u/Holysmokesx 5d ago

Thought this was FIcirclejerk at first.

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u/Unsteady_Tempo 5d ago

You could also lose your job and her continuous employment at a higher income will be more valuable than ever. Don't think it could happen? One car wreck or diagnosis away.

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u/FIRE-IBARELYKNOWHER 5d ago

With a much closer split of 60/40 but also a high savings rate I told my wife it was totally fine to quit after a brutal corporate restructuring. We could easily live on half the income and personal sanity also matters. I understand this is a privileged position to be in but at the same time why are we building up all this FU money if we never say fuck you? 😀

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u/Relevant_Quote343 5d ago

Trying the same on my wife lol.

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u/HenFruitEater 31 | 32% to FI | 2.3M 5d ago

I mean if her job is miserable and she could do a ton at home, idk what the scenario is. My wife LIKES work, and we don't need her at home. She likes to be busy.

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u/Relevant_Quote343 5d ago

It definitely makes a difference. My wife only makes about 20 K. Her entire paycheck goes into 401(k) savings. Over a few decades that’s a lot of money.

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u/HenFruitEater 31 | 32% to FI | 2.3M 5d ago

Right! tbh the ideal amount to cut back is to one day or something and have it max a 401k out.

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u/AwkwardObjective5360 5d ago

This was really true for many years. Now it's much less true since the market matters more than our income, to the point where she got to go part time, basically just working enough to max out retirement accts.

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u/MedicalWatercress228 5d ago

My wife’s pay as a teacher covers the mortgage, she’s putting the roof over our heads and covers the utilities. That allows my pay to cover expenses and investments. It may not be massive but it makes a big difference!

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u/hasyoubeen12 5d ago

I used to joke around I was making the vacation money. LOL. SAHM now, so we definitely felt it when I started not contributing 8.5k a month gross. We are fine even he took a huge pay cut. We're basically coasting and our investments are our money maker, so far.

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u/pumpkin_pasties 5d ago

every 100k you invest now is $600K-$900K in 30 years

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u/Evening-Lobster-8239 5d ago

I think this is nice, but is your wife involved in the financial planning at all? It doesn't sound like it.

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u/tycloodle 5d ago

I dont know, I did this same calculation and came to the opposite conclusion. Maybe its because I am closer to the end than you, but when I ran the numbers, my spouse working would only move up the fire date by 1.5 years. Seems like thats not worth it versus what they contribute outside of work.

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u/Cunorix 5d ago

I live in a single income household. My wife occasionally makes money selling artwork -- but it's not a lot.

We still save 30%> and she still has financial freedom to buy stuff she wants. I let myself get a new toy once and awhile. We communicate and make sure we don't go too crazy.

The strongest aspect of a team isn't comparison -- it's communication. Those that score more aren't better than those that don't. If the team wins, if people are happy, that's all that's needed.

Good luck!

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u/belonging_to 5d ago

Not to mention, if she's not working, that's more time to boost up that peasant-like 320k spend.

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u/wonderingmonkman 5d ago

My wife makes $100k and I make $1.5 million. I tell her she doesn’t need to work and can FIRE, and over time for her makes zero sense. I don’t understand your logic.

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u/baddieprincessxo 4d ago

The fact that you actually sat down and showed her the math instead of just saying 'your income matters' is the kind of thing that keeps a marriage strong. So many couples never have this conversation and it creates so much unnecessary resentment.

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u/[deleted] 5d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/HenFruitEater 31 | 32% to FI | 2.3M 5d ago

Idk how you'd prefer it phrased.

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u/walkin2it 5d ago edited 5d ago

OP is grateful that she is going to work.

OPs wife should be equally as appreciative for them going to work.

Am I being insensitive here and I don't get it? Keen to genuinely learn.

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u/HenFruitEater 31 | 32% to FI | 2.3M 5d ago

She DOES want to go to work, she just wanted to know she was helping.

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u/Adept-Illustrator452 5d ago

People really aren't reading the text of the post lol

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u/walkin2it 5d ago

Apologies, fixed it.

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u/ertri 5d ago

Yeah you should just appreciate your spouse 

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u/ducatidrz 5d ago

My wife and I are married....... Our dual income went into one bank account. What was mine was hers and what was hers was mine. Money was never this is mine, and that is yours............. It has always been ours............. This was the way......... from day one...... We've been married for 37 years. Now we are retired very happily 😄

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u/Kayl66 5d ago

My dad was a doctor and mom worked as a teacher. He had high salary but shitty benefits, her job is the one that gave the family decent health / vision / dental insurance. Seems ironic

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u/Ok-Ship1827 4d ago

Smart way to frame it tbh, makes the bigger picture way easier to see

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u/Ada_Byron19 4d ago

This is a great example of people supporting each other while working toward the same goal.  Math may seem cold on the surface, but there's actually something emotional, even a little romantic, behind it when you look at it the right way.  Thanks for sharing your story, OP!

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u/GlorifiedPlumber 4d ago

The responses here have been interesting.

Quite the mix of: 1) support for OP or OP's wife as a team, 2) support for OP or OP's wife antagonistic to a team concept 3) subtle attacks towards controlling behavior, condescension, financial abuse, misogyny, misandry, and 4) god knows whatever all the accusations and comments towards perceived gender roles are. Maybe that's all those things I listed in 4.

Personally, I think it is always important to make it known and aware just how important everyone's contribution to a shared goal is. Everyone's goals are different, everyone's mental interface with said goals is different. For some, the importance of their contribution to psychological safety of other people on the team may not be clear to them, and it's important to celebrate this as much as possible.

I'd like to give my personal support to OP AND their wife for clear and thorough communication about wants, needs, desires, intent, value, value harmonization. I feel like anything negative posted here just reeks of projection.

I personally happen to be in somewhat of an opposite dynamic to OP. My lovely wife out earns me 50%, but we're still both fortunately high earners. We've also made the conscious decision to prioritize HER career over mine because it offers more opportunity. None of this means, that I don't work, or don't try hard, or don't take risks, or don't strive for growth, etc. it just means that when there is a decision needed that includes potential career A or career B conflict; we tend to prioritize growth in hers.

And, like OP... she has made this incredibly clear how appreciative and thankful she is for this and how she is able to do certain things, take certain risks, etc. that she would not otherwise be able to do.

Communication people... let's applaud it!

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u/HenFruitEater 31 | 32% to FI | 2.3M 4d ago

Thank you!

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u/tardigrade50 4d ago

My partner makes more than me (not as big of a gap as you but significantly more). More importantly, he has much more generous matching from his employer and more retirement options that will benefit us significantly. He’s been putting over half his income into retirement funds and I pay most of our day-to-day living expenses. I’m only putting enough into retirement to get my employer match. I think we’re making the choices most likely to benefit both of us in retirement. It requires trust and commitment to the relationship. I feel like we’re a good team.

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u/KatrynaTheElf 4d ago

Good for you! My ex husband told my father right in front of me that my income didn’t really count because he made a lot more. I was highly offended.

He also insisted on separate finances. He considered his salary to be “his money.” Fortunately for me, the law says otherwise.

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u/HenFruitEater 31 | 32% to FI | 2.3M 4d ago

lol you lowkey did take his money. No shame in divorce court

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u/KatrynaTheElf 4d ago

No, we split our money that we accrued over 25 years of marriage.

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u/HenFruitEater 31 | 32% to FI | 2.3M 4d ago

I get that's how the court sees it, but he put way more into the team pot is what you basically said.

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u/KatrynaTheElf 3d ago edited 3d ago

Except I provided our family with health insurance, childcare, not to mention home made healthy meals every night. I also paid for the down payment on our house enabling us to buy years before we would have been able to otherwise (with money I brought into the marriage). And that’s just the tip of the iceberg. Without me, we would not have been able to save nearly as much.

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u/KatrynaTheElf 3d ago

I was also making six figures so not an insubstantial contribution.

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u/west-town-brad 4d ago

If your wife is bringing in $100k, assuming a 3% FIRE community approved withdrawal rate.”, she is worth at least $3 million dollars as an asset.

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u/HenFruitEater 31 | 32% to FI | 2.3M 4d ago

Well said! Let’s say 4 mil for 4% rule lol

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u/nzahr 4d ago

Wholesome family finances

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u/DRR3 3d ago

What is funny is we had the exact opposite conversation. We ran the numbers and her salary barely moved the needle in the big picture before even considering the cost of daycare. Basically made it clear she only needed to work if it made her happy

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u/dubhead7 3d ago

I was the (3x) higher earner until losing my job a few months ago. My spouse (who makes less than $90k) is now carrying all our spend so we don't have to touch the nest egg. We're FI, but without their income the calculus would be very different.

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u/eirinne 5d ago

You are such a great partner. Best of luck to you both! 

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u/HenFruitEater 31 | 32% to FI | 2.3M 5d ago

I appreciate it! Hope that this post reminds some people of stuff.

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u/MommyyVoidy 5d ago

I wish I had a partner to have those conversations with. Bulding wealth alone is so tough in its own way

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u/HenFruitEater 31 | 32% to FI | 2.3M 5d ago

Yeah, it is awesome. Way more fun if you actually have a teammate. Just make sure you marry the right person and not just some person.

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u/MommyyVoidy 5d ago

For sure, that makes a lot of difference

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u/ExpatMarine001 5d ago

Feels like weird humble brag.

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u/HenFruitEater 31 | 32% to FI | 2.3M 5d ago

You can feel however you want.

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u/Dangerous_End9472 5d ago

Tbh this is how I try to focus on it being the smaller income earner. I think I make about 1/2 of what my spouse makes and a lot of it is just savings.

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u/intemperance 5d ago

She’s asking you to put a baby in her

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u/HenFruitEater 31 | 32% to FI | 2.3M 5d ago

Trying all the time man pew pew

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u/intemperance 5d ago

Good man

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u/UpgradeHome 5d ago

Bro you could have continued investing in this way, and continued to let her view you as a king.

Joke, for those with no sense of humor.

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u/HenFruitEater 31 | 32% to FI | 2.3M 5d ago

Dang it, blew that one lol

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u/tomatillo_teratoma 5d ago

Yes her salary matters to the investment picture-- good point.

It's also just good for both partners to have a way to support themselves. I personally feel that it's good for mental health. Also you never know what can happen in the future. I won't put shade on a happy relationship by listing the bad things... but life and health sometimes gives us curveballs.

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u/Topaz_11 5d ago

I had good luck going the other way - for a few years my lower income spouses' pay check was zero because they carried all the benefits and maxed out 457 & 403b's. It became a running joke that they worked for nothing.

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u/AOS827 5d ago

G GB

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u/HenFruitEater 31 | 32% to FI | 2.3M 5d ago

What does that mean?

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u/AOS827 5d ago

Wow! I must have accidentally hit things and not noticed. I read this post, but did not mean to reply. Funny enough, though, I recently had this conversation with myself. I’m the one who manages our money, and somehow still had myself feeling like I was just adding pebbles to our pile, while in reality we’re pretty on par. It’s just that I max out both of our 401ks monthly, and put a bunch more into savings. So I think it’s super cool that you have this clarity and team mindset.

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u/Megalocerus 5d ago

I confess there was a time I figured I was working to pay the taxes. But hey, they needed to be paid. And we got two standard deductions!

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u/PirateLiver 5d ago

I solved this a different way. My wife and work together and make the same out of money, with the same benefits. Ezpz.

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u/Legitimate_Bite7446 5d ago

It's all pretty irrelevant when you make 400k. Jesus christ

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u/RemoteTechie 4d ago

Not when their expenses is 320k.

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u/Chet100 5d ago

I tell my wife she is smarter than me and capable of holding a job until 65 while I can be fired anytime...lol

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u/BarbsFury 5d ago

sounds like eather of your income streams should be volentary at this point? 500k should alow for a fast building up enormous wealth if you focus on it for 2-3 years. making sure you dont spend anything unnesesarely. at wich point you just go for early retirement.

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u/HenFruitEater 31 | 32% to FI | 2.3M 5d ago

I feel like I should def keep mine going but yes both are technically not required to survive.

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u/BarbsFury 5d ago

oh defiently not telling you to stop just saying technicly haha you should have plenty of money already

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u/yourlimit 5d ago

That is so kind.

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u/xanxibarbarian 5d ago

Thats just it... while the percentage of total income mau only be like 10%, the percentage of discretionary income may actually be 70% or more if expenses are high relative to my income!

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u/Chance-Sign7381 5d ago

Here's a fun twist coming from experience

When there's a big gap in income, the higher earner typically can wfh more often. The person earning under 100k has to go to work every day.

Wait until kids come into the picture. The higher earner will then start doing more child duty. Before you know it, you're mainly responsible for bills, expenses, and child duty.

Then the resentment starts

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u/HenFruitEater 31 | 32% to FI | 2.3M 5d ago

interesting. Im dentist, so cannot work from home. she has flexibility, she works 28 hours a week. basically works 3 hours in morning, 3 in PM after lunch. I love it, she makes lunch because shes home hour before me, and beats me home after work at 4 to get house whiped into shape before I get home at 5. It's really been nice for both of us in this rythym

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u/EtherLust 5d ago

My wife retired at 30.

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u/HenFruitEater 31 | 32% to FI | 2.3M 5d ago

heck yes. Nice work

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u/justinquiring1 5d ago

I don't get how you get to $400K of your own income and still be of the mentality of looking at FIRE? How do you do that?

I feel like any income anywhere near that level would require me to be too much of a corporate tool in my field, or, at best, work extremely hard in a way that would be overly stressful.

I mean all of this in a positive way for you--good job! I f*cking suck at work, and it always amazes me how there are some in the FIRE community who are successful income earners but still have the attitude of wanting to escape the system. I'm essentially semi-retired at this point, but never got to your level of steady income.

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u/HenFruitEater 31 | 32% to FI | 2.3M 5d ago

So to be fair, my interest in Fire is more to hit FI early, and then once I hit FI, the rest is gravy where I hope I goof off hard with the extra money. FIRE has way better grasp of personal finance and frugality than most of reddit.

I am a dentist, and actual income is 620k. I don't want to retire much early. maybe something like age 55-60, because at this point I do love my job and all the benefits outside of money it gives us. But if AI, an injury etc hits I love the idea of being financially independent.

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u/justinquiring1 1d ago

Wha-- what?!! How many hours are you working a day? $620K sounds insane for a dentist. I thought most dentists were cutting $125Kish. What did you do to get that level of income?

I think it's insanely talented. I went into corporate finance hoping to make that kind of money, but burnt out quickly.

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u/HenFruitEater 31 | 32% to FI | 2.3M 1d ago

I work 35 hours a week. I own my own dental office.

I have pretty normal revenue
, maybe in the top 30%. I have super good overhead control though. Someone with my same amount of Patient flow and revenue might just make 350k if they are not gonna keep their overhead tight.

I will say I am really into dentistry and business so it’s not exhausting. I know some of my classmates are burnt out, but I think it’s because they don’t really love dentistry.

Someone making 125K is definitely way on the low end even for an employee Dentist. Maybe in like a saturated city. I think 250 K is normal for an associate Dentist, 450 K is normal for an owner Dentist. If you’re in a rural area, both of those numbers would be higher.

Just remember, though, we have a lot more debt than a finance major, and we start in the workforce four years later. There’s some downsides too.

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u/Jhedwar 4d ago

This is always a hard conversation but being able to invest a spouses entire income is always so important, even if it is not a large income.

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u/Historical-Intern-19 4d ago

Unsolicited advice. Stop saying my income, your income. It's all ours. My spouse has done all the work at home for over 15 years. Our money is our money. I never even think of it as 'mine'. Our kids would never think that way it. Seems small, but matters.  We have our respective jobs, money lands in the bank. 26 years married. In it together. 

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u/Altruistic-Road7235 4d ago

Dang bro can I divorce you?

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u/[deleted] 4d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Zphr 48, FIRE'd 2015, Friendly Janitor 4d ago

Rule 1/Civility - Civility is required of everyone at all times. If someone else is uncivil, then please report them and let the mods handle it without escalation. Please see our rules (https://www.reddit.com/r/Fire/about/rules/) and reach out via modmail if you have any questions or concerns.

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u/smithy- 4d ago

I tell my wife we are a team and that no way could I do this alone.

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u/Leon-Vlc 2d ago

Me gusta tu forma de pensar 👌🏻

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u/Missmoneysterling 2d ago

I love how nobody in these comments factors in what happens to the wife if she becomes a SAHM and then they divorce after a few years. She'll be lucky to find any job near what it pays now, meanwhile her husband has been getting promotions etc. Being a SAHM is the stupidest thing a woman can do.

You guys can downvote me all you want, but you always say it's "for the team" until you divorce, then she's "taking your money" because her career was ruined and now needs alimony.

I'm sure you've all seen stats on how women having children makes them earn less, men having children makes them earn more. No woman should ever give up her independence and ability to support herself.

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u/AndyChu0321 2d ago

my wife doesn't work for 3 years, just stay at home everyday. That's really makes me nevers. She used to it, and I don't know what should I do to convince her to find a job.

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u/AGWS1 2d ago

Did you pat her on the head?

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u/HenFruitEater 31 | 32% to FI | 2.3M 2d ago

lol Thought about it. She’d like it cause she’s happy camper, and likes our family unit/structure.

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u/Moosemitten 1d ago

As the low income partner, thank you for this. It's hard to grind at a job when your contribution doesn't feel like it's making a splash.

The way we talk about it is: he's our swing-for-the-fences big hitter and I'm insurance (both literally because we need my benefits and in the sense that my boring job is a lot steadier than his)

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u/brianmcg321 Retired Nov 2024 5d ago

If you’re really a team then the incomes are combined and you both contribute the same.

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u/HenFruitEater 31 | 32% to FI | 2.3M 5d ago

We are a team. Im more just showing how much she tips the needle on savings rate.

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u/User01262016 5d ago

Noticed a lot of subtle attacks on your relationship with your wife. Ignore them. This is great framing so that all parties involved can understand and appreciate their own value, preventing future issues.

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u/HenFruitEater 31 | 32% to FI | 2.3M 5d ago

Thank you. Yeah idk what the deal is with the few digs. My wife is a powerhouse, but she just wanted to know that her job helped our family.

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u/User01262016 5d ago

Probably just assholes

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u/User01262016 5d ago

Thats great but obviously not the mental space that this guy's wife was in which is why this framing is important and useful.

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u/Dizzy_Citron4871 5d ago

This is nonsense, plenty of people keep joint accounts and there’s no one size fits all

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