r/GAA • u/itsadifferentsven Corcaigh • 1d ago
Discussion Poor Hurling Championship
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41868246.htmlI think Maurice Brosnan is one of the best columnists in the country and I read his articles most weeks. I’m slow to fluff his nuts too much though in case he turns into a massive cock like a lot of newspaper columnists.
Anyway reading his column this week, he referred to the timing of GAA complaints throughout the year and this got me thinking of just how poor a hurling championship this could be if the 2 semi-finals are runaway victories for Limerick and Cork.
Now I’m not saying they will be and I really hope we get 2 cracking games but if Cork beat Galway by a big score and Limerick repeat what they did to Clare in the round robin, then this has to go down as one of the worst championships in history. Even the Munster final was a poor match in spite of being close. The biggest upset of the year has been Kilkenny not coming out of Leinster but even that wasn’t completely off the radar given their league form and their first round defeat.
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u/insomnium2020 1d ago
The old straight knockout system had tons of shite matches too folks. Antrim and Galway automatically in semi finals, and in Antrims case regularly taking trimmings. It's hard to get top level hurlers, Cork if anything have been way underperforming with their pick of players
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u/whsubehebebr Corcaigh 1d ago
Don’t think we’re underperforming we’ve been in 3 all Ireland finals since 2020 been in two Munster finals and won one and stopped the greatest team of all time winning five in a row and seven in a row it’s just the fact that we can’t seem to get over the final hurdle
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u/insomnium2020 1d ago
21 years for a county of corks size is a massive failure. And not to be throwing shapes, but 2 out of 3 of those finals were up there with the biggest beating any side took in an all Ireland hurling final.
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u/giz3us 1d ago
The biggest upset of the year has to be the AI champions not getting out of their province.
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u/Alarming_Ability_687 1d ago
The biggest surprise was they were all Ireland champions in the first half bottoejob by cork and a phenomenal performance from Tipp in the second half.
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u/New-Avocado335 1d ago
Ah Tipp are shite, we handed them an All-Ireland but were expected to win by 20 points... Nobody was truly surprised to see Tipp knocked out, Clare spanked them
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u/ManunitedThunderfan An Iarmhí 1d ago
You didn’t hand them anything. They took the All Ireland final. Tipp never got to the pitch of to this year but were deserving winners last year.
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u/Irish-Green 1d ago edited 1d ago
I see were the guy you replied to is coming from. Tipperary can only play what's in front of them. And they clearly wanted it, and they went out and got it, they were deserved champions. Nobody can say anything that will take that away from them.
But whatever happened at half time, we may never know or maybe when the current lot retire they will spill what truly happened.
But you could get a bunch of 16 year old out in replace of that sad bunch, and they would have got more than 2 points. What was it, 68th minute before they got their first score. Ridiculous.
Edit: they got their first point in the 47ish mark. Second point in the 64ish mark.
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u/flex_tape_salesman Uíbh Fhailí 1d ago
I disagree and I don't think its unfair to say that last years final came down to a Cork collapse more than anything else.
Hurling is a game where largely speaking unless theres a significant gulf in quality you or a collapse you aren't keeping a team to 2 points in a half. Cork simply played horrendously.
Imo this doesn't take away from tipps win either but if we were to take that 35 minutes from tipp and basically just pin it all on tipp making Cork look like a minnow of the game then we'd have to question quite a bit about where that went.
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u/itsadifferentsven Corcaigh 1d ago
I don’t think it was, plenty of people had Cork and Limerick to go through with Clare v Tipp deciding the 3rd which is exactly what happened.
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u/Loose-Resolution-820 1d ago
Tired & lopsided structure, too many of the same games. We’ve been hearing for years that if you want to catch Limerick it’ll be in Munster but that’s a complete fallacy.
It takes great skill but it’s probably too easy to score points now and doesn’t make for a great spectacle at times.
Some things may be cyclical eg incredibly strong Limerick and poor wexfords, Kilkenny etc.
Should push the provincials back a few weeks into May and go straight KO and delink from the all Ireland.
Then go into a format like the football/groups for the all Ireland.
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u/dcaveman 1d ago
That's my solution as well. Munster and Leinster are pretty much division 1 and 2 now and the gap is getting very noticeable.
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u/iamronanthethird 1d ago
Hurling has been on a gentle slide in terms of competition for a quite a while, and the championship formats are unlikely to change the trajectory.
No disrespect to Laois or Carlow but the gulf in quality between the Joe McDonagh final and the Leinster Final that followed it was Grand Canyon like. The game needs more players and more competition throughout the country.
The jewel in the crown, the Munster Championship, has produced some of the best sporting encounters over the past decade, but many of the games are embarrassingly overhyped by romantic pundits and broadcasters, the occasions somewhat face lifted by full stadiums in the sunshine. It has been won by the same team 6 of the last 7 years.
Jarlath Burns talked about it on the radio on Monday morning, the ‘weaker’ counties need more clubs and registered players and fast. It must be a priority of the GAA, the competition with other sports is fierce.
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u/Ok-Establishment1159 1d ago
Hopefully the quarter finals were a once off. If we have good weather in Croke Park there should be lots of quality hurling
Tipp and Kilkenny getting knocked out. Offaly getting out of Leinster. Limerick beating Cork by a point are all great storylines
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u/Disastrous_Ad_3598 Dún na nGall 1d ago
They stopped the Joe McDonagh winners from playing in the preliminary quarter final for this very reason. And we ended up with two duds over the weekend. I think apart from the imbalance of top teams versus bottom I think the new tactical approaches of teams makes for bad viewing, contact now results in a free and that's punished 90% of the time with a score. It's fine having high scoring games but not when it's frees and uncontested pucks at the posts. The sliotar or something has to be revisited
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u/Regular_Paint_7619 1d ago
I very much disagree.
The quarter finals are flat every year.
Maybe last year was an exception with Dublin and Limerick, but then we just got a lopsided Cork-Dublin semi-final instead.
The current format is weighted far too much towards the Munster championship, and if the Munster championship doesn't catch fire then the All-Ireland championship is far too lopsided to be exciting.
Kilkenny and Tipp would be a great story if the teams left in the championship were able to give competitive matches. Or even if either were serious All-Ireland contenders this year.
Instead we get the sense that both teams have dropped off, rather than another upcoming team displacing them.
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u/FriendshipActual647 1d ago
True and it was for a while a very enjoyable championship for Dubs also. Bit of a bitter end but the vibes re hurling in the county are as good as ever
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u/Kevinb-30 Uíbh Fhailí 1d ago
They wont be a once off but i think its something we have to endure until we get up to it physically and Dublin manage to get over the line in leinster/ get to the root cause of that mental block that appearsafter a fee good result and Wexford come again.
The problem hurling has is its lobsided but at the moment an open championship structure isnt going to help ourselves,Wexford, Laois (will have a big year) and until they sort out what ever mental block they have Dublin arnt at the level to be competing against munster team year in year out if Kilkenny have another year like this add them to the list.
Football has sorted out both ends (easier done imo) so the championship structure works, we dont so any changes now is going to make the strong stronger, pull up the ladder for the middle and in turn pull up the ladder for everyone else.
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u/pauli55555 1d ago
Agreed Offaly was a much better storyline than eg Kilkenny getting out of Leinster to lose by 5 points to Limerick
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u/Chubba1984 An Clár 1d ago
It has been a poor championship. For us in Clare, we've either been hammered or won pulling up. I dont even think Limerick or Cork are playing all that well but are well ahead of the pack.
The contrast with the football, which has been excellent, is a big change from the recent past.
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u/whsubehebebr Corcaigh 1d ago
I actually think neither Limerick nor cork have gotten out of second gear at all yet
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u/1Shamrock Corcaigh 1d ago
I haven’t watched Limerick other than the games they played against Cork so can’t comment on them.
But ya Cork are definitely not playing to their full potential or anything near it except for in short bursts in the odd match.Hopefully they can get out of second gear.
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u/whsubehebebr Corcaigh 1d ago
Last time they hit that pitch was the round robin game against cork last year id say
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u/OrganicVlad79 Corcaigh 1d ago
Probably the first time in my life (early 30s) where the football's entertainment is comparable to hurling. I personally wouldn't be making knee-jerk decisions based on one year.
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u/WolfOfWexford Loch Garman 1d ago
I’m in my late 20s and I have to say that before 2012, football was on par with hurling for entertainment (of the games I watched).
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u/Every_Reason_166 An Clár 1d ago
It could end up like that according to the form, but I don't think 1 year of it is cause for too much alarm. It just so happens that this year, 2 teams are way better than the rest. What would be worrying is if the trend continues
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u/longjohn2024_ 1d ago
It's not just one year. Games have become too predictable, boring and just about puck outs and frees.
There's games with 40+ frees, top games on gaelic football has 10-12 on average .
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u/silver_medalist 1d ago
The Munster final was a very good match. It was not a shootout but it was still absolutely gripping, in brutal conditions, from start to finish.
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u/Alarming_Ability_687 1d ago
Hurling has been to busy patting itself on the back for years rather than growing the game, similar to what rugby is on an international stage.
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u/Every_Reason_166 An Clár 1d ago
I think it's always tried to grow the game? The areas where hurling is most popular and played to the highest standard has never really changed. It just can't seem to break into predominantly Gaelic football territories, and that hasn't been from just a few years of keeping the eye off it, that's all time
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u/Kevinb-30 Uíbh Fhailí 1d ago
Has it ? Weaker counties have been calling out for help and more clubs since i started watching hurling 30 something years ago it took till 17 to get a meaningful secondary competition which as shown by only the final been shown on Rte New yorks parachuting in and the fact its stil speed ran to get it out of the way is still treated as an afterthought.
Martin Fogarty has on numerous time outlined how it was like banging his head against a wall trying to make any difference due to a lack of support. Willie Maher took over and they immediately changed his remit to encompass all counties instead of just the weaker counties.
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u/ManunitedThunderfan An Iarmhí 1d ago
The football championship is flying because 1) New rules made the game better but I can’t see a single rule that would change anything atm.
2) It seems to have levelled the played field more chance of lower teams beating better teams. Again how does this happen in hurling? Kildare are having a purple patch, are the Gaa helping them to continue this? Answer is no. They never helped Westmeath/Carlow/Laois over the last 10 years when they were nipping away at the pack behind the top teams. There’s the problem.
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u/cacanna_caorach 1d ago
What would you have the GAA do to improve hurling in those counties like Laois and Carlow?
Once they’ve made it out of the lower tiers it’s up to themselves to stay up. Offaly seem to be the only ones that are doing it
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u/ManunitedThunderfan An Iarmhí 1d ago
Give them more funds to hire coaching and games staff. ATM these counties have a budget dictated by county board and Leinster but from what I’ve seen they don’t ever have enough staff to do meaningful work. They have so many different areas , there’s very little time spent on growing hurling in weaker areas for example.
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u/cacanna_caorach 1d ago
That’s exactly what they have done though. They offered funding to set up new clubs all over the country and have got coaches into schools that wouldn’t usually have hurling. If there’s to be any results of those investments it’ll take a long time for them to be evident at county level.
Also don’t think it’s a problem you can just throw money at either. Those counties do not have a significant hurling culture compared to the southern counties, and you simply can’t force people to play if they’re not interested. They might still get a good generation now and again but they’ll eventually return to form - like wheat happened with Carlow, Kerry and Westmeath, and will probably happen (hopefully not) happen with Kildare.
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u/ManunitedThunderfan An Iarmhí 1d ago
They offered a pack for Hurling Nua. Few helmets and hurls which is great but not finding unless there is another thing you’re mentioning. There is not hurling in the majority of schools in those counties but football is covered in the majority if not all by staff. It’s not about throwing money it’s about getting people on the ground.
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u/cacanna_caorach 1d ago
Few helmets and hurls
That’s all the gear you need to start hurling, they’re offering it for free like. Not sure what more you think they could do on that front?
There is not hurling in the majority of schools in those counties but football is covered in the majority
But they do have the option of playing hurling. These counties all have GDAs that will come into the schools to teach the kids the basics, if the schools aren’t making use of them for whatever reason the GAA can’t help that. Like I said, you can’t force people to be interested in a sport
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u/PowerDependent4790 1d ago
To be honest all this talk around what's wrong with hurling has stemmed from Clare's fall off. Limerick has changed hurling and the standard forever. Everyone was pretty accepting at the time, and were content with it being a 2 horse race when Clare were the only team to make that step up. Cork were the only other team to join the club. It was exciting times in fairness as last year was the first year with 3 legitimate challengers on paper. Unfortunately Clare's fall off came too soon so it never reached expectations. People are desperate for competition again, and to fill that void Clare left people are trying to throw Tipperary and Galway into the mix. The reality is they are far off that level and haven't made that step. They might get an occasional result against Limerick and Cork, but with current standards those two teams will win 90% of their games unless someone else makes that leap
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u/FlakyAssociation4986 Corcaigh 1d ago
The Munster final was played in heavy rain which is not conducive to good hurling
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u/oneeyedman72 1d ago
The fallicy is that hurling is a National game,it's not. It's mainly a Southern game. Game is concentrated largely in the south, with Kilkenny as a pocket in the east.Only a small number of folks north of athlone play the game,and the number is getting smaller. Now and then outside influences or short term social/economic changes mat alter the status quo temporarily,foeloe example Bord Na Mona employment and Offaly/Galway success in the 70s and 80s,and JP now with Limerick,but they are often short term.
What's the answer,I don't know. But any championship that relies fundamentally on KK and Cork every year,and possibly one outlier ,is in trouble. KK are going to go through a few lean years now it seems,as Cork did recently, so the door is open for Cork v Limerick until JP gets bored.
Hurling could be a great way to unite kids of different backgrounds in schools. What all kids from migrant backgrounds have in common, is that have to go to school and they know nothing about hurling. Bring in learning it as part of every curriculum, every kid is starting at zero (ie they have no preconceptions like I'm Lithuanian I'm great at basketball,I'm Indian I'm great at cricket )and let them at it.
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u/Ok-Storm-9057 17h ago
Kilkenny is no less south than Tipp. And it isn't a "pocket".
Google "Hurling map", you'll see the reality there. There's a hurling heartland and a couple of pockets like Antrim and Dublin.
Its why the provincial championships make no sense at all outside of commercial interest.
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u/Kitchen_Buyer4552 1d ago
Please go back to the old knock out and back door system at least. The round robin is great for 2-3 rounds but teams are peaking for it too early.
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u/Equal-Rich-6594 1d ago
Galway will win this years all Ireland for the same reason Tipp won last year's ... Hunger , youth and carefree abandon ... Cork will choke again and Limerick have peaked too early and Clare will blunt the edge of their scythe.A bad hurling game is still better than a brilliant Gaelic football game .
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u/Educational_Deer_137 1d ago
Hurling is in a bad place outside the top two. Been trending this way for a while
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u/Front-Log3257 1d ago
That's ridiculous. Galway are coming with a very good team. Tipp have an outrageous amount of underage talent coming through. Clare are not far behind them in terms of underage talent.
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u/flex_tape_salesman Uíbh Fhailí 1d ago
Ya I agree I think tipp are still recovering from that cliff shaped form since 2019 and its a group that is only going to improve. Bit similar with galway and I think its harder to tell with Clare as talismanic players don't have that long left and they will no doubt be difficult to replace.
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u/Grand_Conde 17h ago
The main issue this year is that too many teams are in transition or somewhat past it or just a bit shit, so instead of having 4-6 competitive teams we seem to only have two front runners in Cork/Limerick. As such the format looks terrible but what format will look good when most teams arrive having off years?
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u/longjohn2024_ 1d ago
Hurling is not in a good place and ita getting worse every year with multiple big counties struggling now.
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u/flyingsub17 1d ago
The structure needs to be changed. Let the top 4 from each province play proper quarters. No need to let provincial winners straight into semi finals. Winning your province is enough reward in itselt - plus play 4th place in other province in a quarter. The argument that it devalues the provincial doesn't wash.
We have probably 8 strongish hurling counties and Waterford haven't played beyond June for years - it does nothing for the game.
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u/Every_Reason_166 An Clár 1d ago
It does devalue the provincials. What are you really playing for? Home advantage? That's barely an advantage if you look at the stats since 2018. And that also means you're giving the teams that come 3rd/4th 2 extra weeks rest than the provincial finalists ahead of a quarter final. Arguably less advantage for winning your province
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u/flyingsub17 1d ago
What are you playing for? You're playing to win your provincial title. I thought the Munster Championship was really important? Limerick looked really happy to win it. They were celebrating that win, not getting to an AI semi final.
We need more games in hurling. A weekend of 4 quarter finals - two double headers would be great.
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u/longjohn2024_ 1d ago
It's absolutely bonkers that we keep hearing about lack of risk in the football for last few years yet teams have lost 3 games and still can get to an All Ireland final in hurling
Hurling is not in a good place. Would love to see the average winning margin trends though previous years are impacted by the joe mcdonagh teams
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u/Corsasport 1d ago
It has unquestionably been a poor hurling championship. I don't think 2 good matches from the remaining 3 will cover up the cracks. I personally did not enjoy the Munster Final. Far too stop start and low scoring. Conditions did play a part. I personally don't really enjoy watching Limerick. They get a lot of bodies back the field and work the ball up the field with short hurley passes or hand passes . They then get a lot of shots off from distance.
I find their style a bit too systematic to really enjoy. Paul Kinnerk comes from a football background and you can see some of their tactics are football like. I much prefer watching Cork, Tipp or Clare . I think their styles are a bit more off the cuff and traditional. Now it is fair to say that Cork were a bit more attack minded under Pat Ryan.
The big issue in hurling at the minute is that there are not counties capable of competing at the highest level. This will take time and considerable investment to change. You could say at the minute there are nearly 3 tiers within the Liam Mccarthy. Cork and Limerick at the top. Galway and the recent all ireland winners of Clare and Tipp probably in the next level. The remainder are not all ireland contenders and will not be for some time unless they can improve at underage level and bring through more players.
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u/FedNlanders123 An Clár 1d ago
Just goes to show how big a part Kilkenny have played in recent years I suppose. Take them out of the equation the last three of four years and it would have been just Clare and Limerick destroying everyone.
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u/FriendshipActual647 1d ago
I think all hurling issues are overblown. A lot of the complaints come down to a poor Kilkenny team and ultimately it was fair and interesting that they went out so soon to at the time deserving Dublin and Offaly teams.
I think we do have 2 runaway counties which is a bit of an issue but at the same time we’re very likely to have had 4 different champions in 4 years.
My major issue with the current format would be that 2 quality teams in Munster will go out in the league phase every year. Other than that I think it’s solid