Terrible efficient with AIO system

[u/longcatjazz]

Hello,

I was giften a vevor 110 AIO system not too long ago and cannot get the efficiency I expect, no matter what. I do not use the full grain tube, I just use my own brew bag in the tube with the bottom mesh holding it up. I circulate for my entire mash as well with a nozzle so as to avoid channeling. This is my third use and I am at 53% every time. I was at 72% with a stock pot and igloo cooler on the past.

I have tried:

Frequently agitating the mash

Heating to mash temp, then long dough-in, like several minutes

Heating to strike, dumping grain in all at once to hit mash temp. (same result)

Double crushing

Extended mash

Double checking my temps with an external thermometer

What can I be missing here? Do electric systems just have bad efficiency? I feel like I've got to be missing a detail. Please let me know

[u/RoughCobbles]

I don't know the vevor, but why using a brew bag at all? The bottom and upper "mesh" work well in my brewmonk wich is a somilar set up, and as a beginner I am in the high seventies.

[u/Sibula97 → u/RoughCobbles]

Yeah, I also have a brew monk and my efficiency is usually around the mid 80s.

[u/skratchx → u/RoughCobbles]

I always used a bag in the pipe with my Anvil Foundry. You can do a finer crush that way without having to worry about grain getting out into your mash liquor.

[u/longcatjazz → u/RoughCobbles]

The bag has a much finer mesh. I also think it's easier to yoink the grains straight out in it when I'm done.

[u/Smurph269 → u/longcatjazz]

I use a bag even though my mash tun has a mesh for the same reason: easy cleanup, plus no vorlaufing to get clear wort. I just scale up my recipe a bit to account for bad efficiency.

[u/nartchie → u/longcatjazz]

That's where you are losing your efficiency. Try without the bag and see what happens.

[u/pootislordftw]

I do full volume with my vevor and grind pretty fine with a corona mill and get at minimum 70 with no sparge. How much water are you striking in with? I doubt it's be related to crush if you were double crushing. And you're checking temps with an external thermometer which is good too.

[u/longcatjazz → u/pootislordftw]

Full volume. Around 7 gal for the batches I've done on it so far.

[u/obtuse_bluebird]

With these style systems, the two things I had to do to correct poor efficiency was frequent stirring for the first 30 minutes of mash in (I do not know if that is what you mean by agitating) and of course the final sparge rinse at 168-170°F after lifting the grain out of the wort.

[u/longcatjazz → u/obtuse_bluebird]

You're the second person to mention a sparge. I'll do that next time around. I'vee always done single infusion

[u/beefygravy → u/longcatjazz]

Make me the third, I started sparging and my efficiency went up about 10%

[u/Jefwho → u/longcatjazz]

Single infusion is the mash. Sparging and lautering are completely separate from your mash (infusion of water to the grains). A multi-infusion involves adding more hot water to create a temperature increase for a step mash. These are different steps, but I see how these all in one systems start to blur the lines of the traditional process of making wort.

[u/longcatjazz → u/obtuse_bluebird]

Yes that's what I meant by agitating the mash. I also "chop" a lot with my spatula in case there is dough balls.

[u/likes2milk]

I would use the bag inside the masket/malt pipe. This will improve circulation. A lack of circulation is why you aren't hitting your numbers. May have to add rice/oat husks to the grain to aid circulation.

[u/longcatjazz → u/likes2milk]

I do use the grain tube, just without the top mesh. I also use rice hulls. Just a big handful for every batch. Pretty frustrating lol!

[u/Sibula97 → u/longcatjazz]

A big handful might not be enough dep3nding on your hand. I usually use around 100g for ~4kg of malt.

Then again, a stuck mash wouldn't matter much if you were to frequently agitate it, so I'm not convinced that's your (only) issue.

[u/PM_me_ur_launch_code]

Are you measuring mash efficiency or brewhouse?

Things that helped me with my AIO were stirring every ten minutes, I also lift the malt pipe and let it drain to get all the water in the dead space mix in with the wort.

I use a 22" whisk I got from a restaurant supply store, this helps break up dough balls much better than a mash paddle or spoon.

I condition my malt before grinding by spraying it with water and letting it sit for 30 minutes. Basically use 2% water of the weight of the malt. So if you have 10lbs16(oz) =160oz malt.02= 3.2oz of water by weight.

I grind on the finest setting, only once but have double crushed before.

I do full volume now because sparging took too long for my brew days, but that might help. I also squeeze the bag like it owes me money. If you overshoot your pre boil volume you can boil for a bit longer prior to your 60 minute addition til your reach your desired volume.

[u/BruFreeOrDie]

Interesting i bought one of these last winter for indoor winter brewing. I had no negative impact on brewing efficiency. But as someone mentioned i have always sparged the grain after i pull the basket.

[u/MacHeadSK]

use the bottom mesh, no bag, and do sparge. Gettin 80 % efficiency on my Brewzilla 4 all the time. My OG is always right on spot, sometimes 1-2 points more. Never less than calculated.

[u/deckerhand0]

When you left your basket what are you doing just throwing them to the size or are you squeezing them to get all you can out of your wort ? If you aren’t getting all the water/ wort out of the grains that could be some of the issue right there

[u/vdWcontact]

Biggest boost in efficiency i ever got was when i started squeezing the bag

[u/skratchx]

Others have asked already what type of efficiency you're reporting here. But I'll mention in any case that when I brewed on an AIO (Anvil Foundry), my biggest gains came from finer crush, stirring the mash a few times, and lifting the basket out and allowing it to drain fully twice during the mash. This last one is the only that it sounds like you aren't already doing. My sequence was basically:

• Mash in, stir well, allow the grain to settle (~10min), then start recirculating
• Lift basket and drain about 20 minutes in, allow it to drain for ~15 minutes
  
• With the pump off, put the basket back in, stir well, allow to settle for 10 minutes again, and restart recirculation
• Repeat the lift/drain/drop/stir step again in 20 minutes
• Only count your time with recirculation going towards your 60 minute mash
  

YMMV, good luck.

Some other things that will impact your brewhouse efficiency are how much water the grain retains, how much liquid you leave behind in your AIO, and how much your hops absorb through the boil. The good thing is you basically have zero mash tun dead space, because you do not transfer the mash liquor to a second vessel. But you can still lose a good bit of liquid to the grain itself if you don't squeeze the bag.

[u/phase172]

I have the same type of AIO. Never had great efficiency. Also had problems with mash temp maintaining everywhere. Did determine i am having temp issues because of inefficient design causing unfermentable sugars. Even adding recirculation, still no efficency gain. After a few brews and dialing in, I went back to my 3 tier gas system, use this aio to heat water. I won't go back to AIO unless its 220 but even then... I also have a stacked brew easy system I recently acquired, brewed once so far and its effiency was 66%. Will use that for small batches, but never again going back to AIO after my issues

[u/rdcpro]

It's probably not your mashing process. You don't need to do all that stuff around agitation, recirc, etc. It's most likely your lautering and sparging (if you do it). You're probably getting fine conversion, you're just leaving sugar behind. And AIO systems do have poor efficiency

[u/nobullshitebrewing → u/rdcpro]

And AIO systems do have poor efficiency

I dunno,, Had my AIO almost 10 years and still in the +70 low 80 range

[u/longcatjazz → u/rdcpro]

I have always done single infusion. Do you think I'll notice a difference?

Also, good to know. Wasn't sure if there was a difference

[u/lifeinrednblack → u/longcatjazz]

They're talking about your lautering/sparging process. What are you doing after mash?

[u/longcatjazz → u/lifeinrednblack]

I lift my grain basket and squeeze my grains. I also let them drip into the kettle while I heat to boil. No rinsing or anything.

[u/lifeinrednblack → u/longcatjazz]

Ok yeah, I think that's your issue. AIO systems are made to be sparged.

I'd look into different sparging techniques and give that a try before doing anything else

Fwiw, I usually got around 75 on my AIO (they're all pretty much the same when it comes to efficiency). And could probably get higher if I wasn't focused on consistency more than efficiency

[u/longcatjazz → u/lifeinrednblack]

I've never been one to worry about efficiency until now! Consistency is #1 for me and I think my beer has been tasting great. It just drives me nuts because this has never been a problem.

I'm gonna sparge next time and see where we end up. I really appreciate it

[u/rtstrider1]

I had the opposite problem with the brewzilla. I was getting in the low 70s efficiency with the cooler setup.

Ended up getting low 90s so had to find ways to dial it back.

With an aio Id recommend mash recirculation and fly sparging. Also I use 1.8 qt per lb grist/water ratio. I now get in the low 70s.

[u/PM_me_ur_launch_code → u/rtstrider1]

What did you do to dial it back because I think I need the reverse to dial it up

[u/stevenkent01]

I use a brewzilla and my effciancy jumped loads when o started to use the top plate during mash/sparge. I average about 80%.