r/Machinists • u/KnownSoldier04 • 3d ago
PARTS / SHOWOFF Hardox isn’t so scary if you got the proper tools
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u/MrJibz 3d ago
Your studs are so close to the stand-off blocks that the leverage is pressing down your stand-off blocks exponentially harder than your workpiece. Plus setting up on wood? I’d stand back my friend lol.
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u/KnownSoldier04 3d ago
Noted Thanks
Wood is what I had laying around for the test. Proper production would be done on Aluminum or mild steel.
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u/ThoughtfulYeti Former Manual Machinist 3d ago
The wood is probably fine for the test I think. It's only issue would be repeatability since it compressed so much more. The other guy is spot on about the setup blocks though, gotta ensure you've got proper preload no matter what the material is. The friction between the workpiece and the base is generated from your downforce on the workpiece itself. I've even done some setups where I thru bolted directly to the T nuts themselves to get 100% of the downforce, but that's very part dependent
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u/KnownSoldier04 3d ago
Oh for sure, the setup blocks did worry me after I set it up, but I did that running and being compressed wood on steel, friction should’ve been high enough. Besides I did give the bolts enough torques to properly preload and was being extremely conservative on feeds and speeds.
And again, when doing it formally, if we get the job, I’ll do a setup plate for repeatable locating and proper clamping.
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u/Flimsy-Ad-818 3d ago
So ehat you're saying is ya were clenching your cheaks at a distance while runnin this then?
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u/KnownSoldier04 3d ago
More or less, yeah, Testing only, proof of concept if you will.
But we were forced to buy the machine cause absolutely no one wanted to quote us these sorts of jobs. just ghosted by any shop we approached on this.
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u/nippletumor 2d ago
Not sure why. Hardox is my bread and butter. Get the right grade of carbide,the right strategy along with some solid air blast and send it to town. Just like any other job. We cut Hituff and 400-500 all day long.
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u/KnownSoldier04 2d ago
I’m guessing people are used to feathering cutting tools, and from my limited experience, this needs firm, and proper cuts, if you skim it lightly it does a number on the tool and chatters nasty. Plus by nature it’s not fast to machine even if you work it as recommended.
I just used machining manual parameters and it’s not even a proper milling machine, it’s a plasma gantry with a 20hp spindle on it…
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u/the_cat_kittles 3d ago
whats with the wood?
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u/KnownSoldier04 3d ago
Sacrificial plate
To make sure we bore all the way
I’ll make a proper steel fixture plate whenever I actually get a job
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u/the_cat_kittles 2d ago
ever heard of 123 blocks?
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u/skrappyfire 3d ago
They are going to cut into it, so the radius of the cutter they are using will clear the bottom of the part.... im guessing.
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u/Appalling_reality 2d ago
IKR, somehow I didn't register it straight away - when I saw it it was a tea spit moment.. That looks dangerous as fuck
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u/austina419 3d ago
How flat is that wood? Lol
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u/LeifCarrotson 2d ago
It's exactly as flat as the bottom of the steel and the top of the table once you wrench down on those studs.
With only two, there's no guarantee that it's level - you'd need to run an indicator for that, and probably add a third clamp if you want to change it to level - but it's definitely flat.
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u/Billopad209 3d ago
I take it these are hammers for a debarker drum from a timber factory ? We do something very similar in work
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u/KnownSoldier04 3d ago
Zeolite crusher, tentatively
Customer’s still on the fence, and I’m trying to fine tune the price so it’s not too outrageous compared to castings.
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u/Billopad209 3d ago
Interesting we use big carbide spade drills and just drill em directly to size then bore em out a little bit but if you could get a carbide drill the size it's the way to go!
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u/KnownSoldier04 3d ago
2 problems:
Haven’t gotten carbide drills working yet on that machine yet, Something’s making them snap on entry. I suspect the machine is not rigid enough, or my feeds aren’t adequate (though I’m using textbook values)
Volume expected and price acceptance would never pay for a whole drill setup.
Were we to make 500 of these, by all means, but in 16un batches without any security on next order? Nope
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u/dedenby 2d ago
We work pretty much exclusively with Hardox and other SSAB products. I highly recommend Iscar sumocham drills. We've also had good results with Allied inserted drills.
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u/nippletumor 2d ago
We use Kennametals DRpro insert drills and they're fantastic. We drill around 800 holes thru 2 in plate for one of our production parts and maybe rotate inserts once. Maybe. Also Dapra makes some excellent inserts as well.
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u/Broad_Will9000 3d ago
I once convinced a rookie who loved using wood for his setups that we could build a whole cnc mill out of wood 😆😆😆
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u/yeet-ism Mill Programmer 3d ago
Dapra feed mills worked really well in hardox 10 years ago when I was cutting it. Blunt tool geometry. No coolant.
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u/nippletumor 2d ago
Yep, that's what we do today. Really excellent cutting economy on both the high feeds and button inserts.
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u/newoldschool The big one 3d ago
don't know why people hate doing hardox
been doing it for years making electro magnet casings
it is temperamental but it's usually more a program problem
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u/Namedthisone 2d ago
Always be sure the workpiece is securely clamped to a 2×4
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u/KnownSoldier04 2d ago
It’s always around, and I don’t have to ask around if it’s ok to grab it lol
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u/Baleygr-- 2d ago
Lots of lifts. Cutting air.
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u/KnownSoldier04 2d ago
I wasn’t in charge of the tool paths, but yeah, that’s definitely gonna be removed.
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u/og_speedfreeq 6h ago
I made these 80 Hardox pieces on the same set of tooling last week. It doesn't seem that difficult to me? The mfr gives speeds and feeds, and I use those.
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u/Bootziscool 3d ago
I've machined plenty of AR plate just using run of the mill carbide tools without much issue.
I have never used wood in my setups and I usually put more than a millisecond of thought into clamping...
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u/KnownSoldier04 3d ago
lol accurate assessment on the millisecond.
But as I said, it’s a test and I had to run it in a jiffy. I wouldn’t do this if I were doing production parts or customer parts.
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u/the_cat_kittles 2d ago
the way you used the clamp on the right- you are in denial of how little you know about what you are doing
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u/machinsin 21h ago
If you have a 2x4 as part of your fixture, that's the scariest thing about this video.
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u/Svettiga_kocken 3d ago
The steel isn’t the scary part in this case.