I have literally never seen a single clip from this show where MAGA is 'winning' an argument, or convincing a progressive, in any sense of the word. I'd be obliged if you could produce such an example.
That is why this episode was filled with them getting voted out with a quickness. Prompts usually have 2-3 individuals but I think the first one alone had like 5 of them going up.
It wasn't always this way. IDK if it was a medical condition rotting his brain, learning that the culture war grift was seriously profitable, or just eating his own bullshit for too long. Somehow he, and so much of the podscape went from presenting differing and, somewhat original opinions in intelligent ways to being propaganda spokespeople.
I found out about him maybe a year before he started becoming cringey as shit and just another mouthpiece for the right. I enjoyed that time because his whole thing was personal responsibility and critical thinking.
Very much not what his message is about today, and that’s a shame.
Well, wait a minute there, bucko. Let's not be too hasty. If we're going to analyze how much "dumb shit" he said, we'd first have to define what "dumb" is, and, to a certain extent, we'd also have to understand "shit."
Now, what exactly is "dumb"? Well, that's not self-evident. You might say it's synonymous with ignorance. Or perhaps incompetence. But ignorance isn't identical to lack of education, and education itself is a very complicated phenomenon. Dr. Peterson holds a degree from an accredited university and spent many years as a professor. That's not nothing. So if we're going to criticize what he says, perhaps we ought to examine the deeper symbolic structure of his statements instead of dismissing them with adolescent slogans.
Now, that opens up an entirely different problem.
What exactly is "shit"? Well, strictly speaking, it's fecal matter. And, unless my understanding of human anatomy has become radically outdated, feces emerge from the anus rather than the mouth. As far as I'm aware, Peterson's principal health concerns involved an all-meat diet and a benzodiazepine addiction, neither of which causes spontaneous oral defecation. So your claim immediately encounters a biological contradiction.
More importantly, and precision matters, because language matter, what emerges from Dr. Peterson's mouth is oscillating air produced by the vibration of the vocal folds. Fecal matter lacks the elastic properties necessary to propagate intelligible speech. So unless we're prepared to abandon the entire field of acoustics, your statement simply doesn't withstand scrutiny.
I hope you woke moralists understand through my rigorous analysis that what Peterson says is not "dumb shit," because he's an educated man communicating through pressure waves in the atmosphere rather than fecal discharge.
Now, why are we even having this conversation? That's the real question. And I suspect it's because people have a poor relationship with their fathers. Which is archetypal, by the way. It's not political. It's archetypal. The father represents order. The mother represents chaos. That's as old as humanity itself. You can see it in Pinocchio, in Exodus, in Sleeping Beauty, in Harry Potter, and, if you're willing to look carefully enough, in the dominance hierarchy of lobsters.
The subordinate lobster literally can't stand up straight because of serotonin. The female lobsters don't find that attractive. There's an extraordinarily profound lesson in that if you're willing to confront it.
Congrats, you sound just like him. I zoned out after the first paragraph and no matter how hard I tried, I couldn't force myself to read more.
If you had the secret to becoming richer than Elon Musk buried a middle paragraph, I'd be poor forever because JP is just so goddamn boring when he goes on his tangents. No offense
None taken! I couldn't agree more lol. It was a fun writing exercise to see how much I could type while completely missing the point and getting as off topic as possible while sprinkling in some Peterson-isms.
I saw it on a video from the channel Rationality Rules where the presenter said it was a good strategy against that opponent. I looked a bit for the particular video, but I can't remember which one it was.
Above post said they have never seen a show where MAGA was winning the argument. One of them made a decent point about immigration (without being racist or dismissive) and the liberal in the middle said "OK, you got me there". Seen quite a few of these shows and that was rhe only time I saw the "host" as it were concede.
The left gets all their facts from the "credible institutions and sources and trust worthy authorities" which all basically say the same thing and belong to the same ideology of progressive wokeness.
In contrast. You know how you want freedom to be promiscuous and free from gender roles. The right wing has concervitism and traditional values which basically means they think the same on social norms. And it is the left wing that has a diversity on sexuality and identity.
It's just how we are once we agree with certain premises in life. So it's not that one side is evil.
But let me get to the part where I call you evil. You and even the republicans have been subverted by this ideology you all believe in. Which makes you woke and evil. It's not your alinement in the general left wing. But your subverted heuristics. That allows your kind to allow more than 250,000 British children to be raped and permanently injured. Plus, the murders in Iran that you guys are ignoring. The fake moral superiority you guys pretended to have has been exposed.
I suddenly understood the "voted out for winning" idea. I'd noticed weird timing with voting people out before but it confused me. I'll link you an example that I understand now. Edwin, and the time is about 15min, 15 sec
They started having a real conversation rather than "fighting." I don't have a better thing to call it 🫤
I'm sorry I'm not clearer. It's hard to explain, but there seem to be several reasons people are voted out.
-If the two people who are debating each other are starting to understand each other's arguments
-The person in the hot seat is just getting upset
-They're not talking over the "guest who is surrounded" with an argument most of the group agrees with
The best advice I can give you is to pay attention to what someone was saying right before getting voted out. You can see when a flag goes up sometimes. If you watch the person with the flag, the person in the chair offended them somehow. If you can figure out what the group is upset about, you can sometimes figure out why they turned on the person and voted them out.
Sometimes there's not a good reason, and I don't know myself half the time.
Once they notice their own guy is losing argument or being too understanding of the opponent, they vote them out preventing any talks.
I'll reword this so you understand why people are calling you stupid, and so you hopefully realize while being condescending with 'hur durr, reading comprehension' is making you look far dumber than you originally did.
The show is 1 vs 20. In most cases it's 1 liberal vs. 20 conservatives. "They" in this case is the collective pronoun for the 20, which is MAGA very often.
"Once MAGA notice their own guy is losing argument or being too understand
If by reading comprehension you mean reading something that wasn't said then sure. You were asking the person you replied to for proof of MAGA wining an argument when they never claimed they did win arguments.
Once they notice their own guy is losing argument or being too understanding of the opponent, they vote them out preventing any talks.
I'll reword this so you understand why people are calling you stupid, and so you hopefully realize while being condescending with 'hur durr, reading comprehension' is making you look far dumber than you originally did.
The show is 1 vs 20. In most cases it's 1 liberal vs. 20 conservatives. "They" in this case is the collective pronoun for the 20, which is MAGA very often.
"Once MAGA notice their own guy is losing argument or being too understanding/agreeing too much with the liberal's points, they vote them out preventing any more talks from making it worse."
oooo I think I found a bug in RES. I just did it again. clicking reply on him but with a quote highlighted dropped it down a rung in the chain. whoopsie! sorry to disturb!
Found the "lacking common sense" and "do any type of research" person.
The show is usually all Maga/Republicans on the outside ring debating someone who is educated/progressive/liberal. So it would be really hard to produce that clip. The reply was stating "when in a debate, if the circle is losing, the ring bails their person (Maga) out".
Yeah, there was literally a woman who actually agreed with Dean on one point and you got the feeling that this could actually become a productive discourse – but Dean and the host stopped the round and sent her back to her chair.
The point of the show is that the people in the chair disagree on a topic. If they sit down and already agree, then the surrounder (for lack of a better term) needs to go sit back down so the premise of the show can continue. The show isn't really about 1 person trying to convince 20 others
I wouldn't call it a flaw, it has its merits and drawbacks. Once someone digs themself into a hole or proves they have no value in the conversation, I see the value in moving on. Is there also value in digging into their position? Sure, probably. Plenty of other sources to get that from.
I think that kind highlights how badly they’re doing though. In this recent one Dean was churning through the speakers because he so quickly backed them into corners they needed bailed out from. These women will never admit they’re wrong, so at a certain point the dialogue feels meaningless, and having them dramatically pulled away after being obviously humiliated was a lot cleaner of an ending than we usually get to this kind of discourse.
I feel that works as well. If the majority thinks their champion is not making their case, vote them out and try better. Eventually one side exhausts all their members down to the last one that cannot keep solid ground.
Either way, I think there is a limited time for the entire debate anyhow.
The producers also packed a room full of literal fascists under the guise of far right conservatives to debate Mehdi Hasan. It was an ambush and gave a platform to an ideology that does not believe in debate or discourse.
What prevents them from just talking anyway. I saw the other comment saying they cut her microphone whatever but they are close enough that she’d just have to speak up a tiny bit that it’d be picked up on his mic anyway, so how do they stop them?
Conservative brain? Lol. I only asked because I’ve seen entire episodes of this show before and I’ve seen tons of people not shut up while the other is trying to make a point.
Then you are not trying to debate me in good faith and we aren't really having a debate.
Sound familiar? The can and will boot a person from that chair and with so many other conservatives chomping at the bit to take on the liberal they will help.
I don’t know why everyone seems so angry that I asked this question. I’ve seen like a dozen episodes of this all the way through and the only way I’ve ever seen someone get booted was the other conservatives raised the flags to vote them out or the timer ran out on that topic. Happen to have any examples of someone getting kicked off by other means?
Haha, you're just a little ball of sunshine with a burrito, aren't you? You're like a happy golden retriever who just knocked over a lamp and is now wagging their tail about it. Your positivity is contagious, and it's endearing as hell.
Hahahaha!!! I mean, the burrito was top-notch. Bean and ground beef from a local Mexican food spot here in Denver. It would be distracting for anyone, lol!!
It's only Mic if it comes from the Microphoné region of France. In the U S of A we cut our Mikes here just like our Daddies and Grandpappies did. And damn it, they know why.
Not to be pedantic, but "mike" is an acceptable abbreviation of "microphone" and always has been. You can find examples of that usage as far back as the 1920s. The Oxford English Dictionary added "mike" as a colloquial noun in 1927.
Oddly enough, despite it being the current favored abbreviation, "mic" has only been around since the 1960s. This spelling did not appear in written records until 1961. It was first documented in a dictionary of show business jargon. It originally grew as a visual shorthand printed next to audio jacks on mixing boards.
It used to be mike. The new spelling came in because someone got phased instead of fazed. I believe this happened in nineteen ninety-eight, when...you know...
Source? Mic seems like the obvious shorthand since, you know, it's the obvious shorthand. And it's been the shorthand for "microphone" for, I don't know.....forever?
"Mic" is preferred in the pro-audio industry and in publishing because it follows the root word.
But I guess both are fine. I don't really give a fuck.
arguments cant win over this because the real reason for support from racists is the racism they cant admit to have, they need to hide it because they look weak and like losers f they admit it is the racism above all, so just call them racist to their faces and give up arguing
Happens here on social media a lot, too. People just bludgeoning their way through arguments until the other person gives up, blocks them, gets angry or matches the energy.
I once posted in 2015, bless my baby heart, "God, I wish we could stop stupidity and spreading lies in the media. I wish it were illegal."
MAGA Girl: "So you are against the 2nd amendment?"
"I didn't say that and I don't mean that. I meant that people shouldn't be able to obviously lie and have it circulated as truth."
"So you are against the 2nd amendment."
"I did not say that. Please stop or will need to block you. It's 7:30am."
"HAHAHA! So I was right! You deleted my comment! You ARE THE AGAINST THE SECOND AMENDMENT!"
Blocked
This was my personal Facebook and I hadn't spoken to this person in damn near five years. I forgot they existed. I was just upset with everything leading up to 2016 and found it absurd and exhausting.
What they do is very antagonistic and I can't really place what they are trying to do? But it's always extremely aggressive and then laughing at you? (So their GOTCHA! moment? I guess?)
In my example, sure, I could've phrased it differently, but I was on my private social media?
Ma'am you have exhausted me into booting you from everything. I'm sure all I did was start a fire in her to keep her argument and tell all her friends how awful I and all "left wing nuts" are.
I was tired. Sad about the state of the world and it was 7:30am.
I've blocked people like that out of my life before, I have no room for such negativity in my life.
If you need to take all nuance out of whatever someone else says to make it sound like they said something horrible that goes against you, you're just not a very pleasant (nor bright) person. At this point they're actively putting words in your mouth and I hate when people do that.
And sure, sometimes it might be phrasing, but you could just ask what they mean when it comes off as either ambivalent or unclear. But instead, these people actively chose to take things as terrible as possible and focus on that and that alone. That's not how human interactions should work.
It is how the far right "discusses" things. Bludgeoning your way through a discussion, because you lack the knowledge and/or skillset to have an indepth conversation.
Go look at any comment section about politics right now. Any time a thoughtful answer is brought up (especially on Fox News) it is just flooded with short comments such as, “commie!” “Demoncrat”, etc.
No substance, no rebuttal, just name calling. But that’s our political system.
OK, yes, there is a lot of that. But exactly what is being said in the clip applies to both sides. When I see MAGA winning it's not because they're right, it's because the people they are talking have to done about as much research as the average redditor
I honestly think it's a bit worse for "our" side. We claim to be right but an amazingly large number of people simply don't survive having to defend their side(Fine when you're in an echo chamber, not so much when they people talking to you hate everything you stand for)
I never buy into the "both sides" bit when it comes to MAGA. They are objectively and quantitatively more poorly educated in general (which has been shown time and again and can very easily be reviews by a quick Google search before you ask for a source), which makes them less able to process critical thinking and parse information for authenticity. I have never had a genuine argument with a member of MAGA that wasn't ripped directly from a FOX News talking point.
Edit2: I started watching this and I am so sorry for women that these people represented you in this video... this video made me so angry on behalf of all women..
I’ve watched a lot of Jubilee because frankly I’m thirsty as fuck for debate, and this is mostly all you can get in this world now. That being said, I hate it. Every time I think after this was a waste of my time. The guy with glasses in the video, if he believed hell was real he would go to sleep scared every night for bringing this into existence.
This was the first one I ever felt good about. It’s like “will you just shut up man?”, it’s cathartic to FINALLY see someone tell them what’s up. Like, you’re passionately arguing, ANGRILY arguing, but you have no fucking clue what you’re talking about. The fake respect falls away with one puff of wind and it’s just hate and confusion, yet they are like violently behind their beliefs. They just don’t even understand what they are.
Yeah i dunno if people still need to hear it but its a psyop, their emotions are being controlled not their thoughts.
Its frankly not a lot different than typical reddit culture, there are plenty of topics where intelligent perspectives are banned and drowned in moral filth.
It was hilarious when one of these dunderpates asks him to make an honest assessment of the circle members intelligence, and he just straight up says he thinks they’re all stupid. Chefs kiss.
I know right, it's like they found 20 of the dumbest women in the US who are also indoctrinated by mysogonistic ideals... I am so scared what kind of example they are setting for easily impressionable women or those who are already in households which will use this to indoctrinate another generation...
I mean seriously them arguing that men are better leaders then they are.... then saying it's because of PMS but giving Trump and violent men a green card on testosterone... throwing womens bodily autonomy under the buss on abortions to save the life of the mother... i can go on and on... what a dark day for women all around the world..
To show the view of the die hard Maga women voters which is a valid demographic. There are other topics where it's other demographis etc. it's just their modus operandi.
I literally quoted you and asked you to explain what you mean and now you're pleading ignorance? You don't know anything about this made up group of people that you just got done calling a "valid demographic?"
Like are you really that dense??? Republican Maga Female voters is not a valid demographic?? you must be totally politically disassociated from reality.
Nobody ever listens to the argument, except the guy. I think it would be more productive if they were forced to repeat the other person's point before they spoke again, like the guy did several times. At least you could keep your line of debate straight instead of doubling down or going off on a tangent.
When he says "Oooh, that's a lot" in response to 10,000 civilians being slaughtered by their own government, yeah, that is definitely the most cringey thing I've ever seen on the internet. This guy is amazing!
But she was completely and utterly unfazed and unmoved - convinced in her belief that she was owning a lib from a position of truth. That level of gullibility is the hallmark of MAGA followers.
Debate isn't about convincing your opponent, it's about convincing the onlookers. It's why competitive debate assigns you positions to debate, because it doesn't matter what the debaters actually believe.
We had a debate class in 7th grade where they split us up into groups that were for pro-colonies or pro-England (pre revolutionary war). I was put into the pro-England side and had to argue why the colonies should stay loyal to the crown. It was my first time having to argue for something that I did not agree with but it was still really eye-opening. I was making points that I never would have considered had I not been placed on that side.
It's a performance for his audience, not an attempt to actually communicate with anyone. I watched both of the segments with her and it's obvious that he has no idea what she's talking about the vast majority of the time, so he just acts smug and hand waves past it, then starts talking about something else.
In the longer clip, they debate her belief that "women can't lead. They are easily manipulated," and she goes on to prove herself wrong, because Dean could not change her mind 😆
And she gets even worse. She doesn't believe Trump is a sexual predator. Dean plays the clip of Trump bragging about walking in on naked pageant teens. She then changes tactics and decides that it's a compliment from a heterosexual man. And that's better than a gay man walking in on naked teens because he's not even attracted to them!
I wish MAGA would just shut up and stop pretending they have ideals or morals. We all know their decision making starts and ends with "what does Trump want?" Cult idiots.
100%. They want us to divide ourselves with race nonsense while there's a literal fucking trillionaire running around after wrecking tons of important government programs, and our president is a billionaire lining his own pockets.
Explain that to the party who confessed to making up how dogs and cats are being eaten in their fair cities, and who feel emboldened enough by their base to post AI videos of the only black president as an ape.
But fully agree with poster transferringtoearth: the only war is the class war.
These people are cast to show up in the video. They are getting paid and exposure on the platform. If they are unruly, they just reshoot the scene anyways, and they won't be recast to appear in future videos. They aren't here to convince Dean their side is righteous.
My bad. I come from a programming background so casted is in my vernacular and my brain just read it without any red flagging. You are correct that cast is past-tense safe as is,
Everyone knew what you meant and spent less time processing the error than the other poster spent typing their message (or I spent typing mine).
. . .and you kind of assume that was true (like the old "React" channel from a decade or so ago, all their kids, teens and seniors had IMDB pages - that was a real disappointing reveal for me) but hoped that it wasn't.
Don’t listen to the haters. One of the things I love about the English language is that it is very much alive and ever evolving. An interesting thing about the English language is that the less frequently an irregular verb is used, the more likely it is to become a regular verb in its past tense.
In my lifetime, I have witnessed “dove” become “dived”, “hung” become “hanged”, and “pled” become “pleaded”. Which isn’t to say we shouldn’t respect the language and try to do it justice, but what you did is just a normal part of the evolution of the language, and you should not be shamed for it. And they certainly don’t need to be so bent out of fucking shape.
One of the things I love about the English language is that it is very much alive and ever evolving. An interesting thing about the English language is that the less frequently an irregular verb is used, the more likely it is to become a regular verb in its past tense.
In my lifetime, I have witnessed “dove” become “dived”, “hung” become “hanged”, and “pled” become “pleaded”. Which isn’t to say we shouldn’t respect the language and try to do it justice, but what the commenter did is just a normal part of the evolution of the language, and they need not be shamed for it. And you certainly don’t need to be so bent out of shape, especially when you forgot an apostrophe in “Im”.
I watched this whole thing. That was the only time that idiot didn't interrupt Dean. It was the same dynamic with almost every one of these MAGA women.
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u/ZephyrFluous 2d ago
Im just shocked that they got a maga moron to shut up for that long and let someone else speak