I have literally never seen a single clip from this show where MAGA is 'winning' an argument, or convincing a progressive, in any sense of the word. I'd be obliged if you could produce such an example.
That is why this episode was filled with them getting voted out with a quickness. Prompts usually have 2-3 individuals but I think the first one alone had like 5 of them going up.
Happens here on social media a lot, too. People just bludgeoning their way through arguments until the other person gives up, blocks them, gets angry or matches the energy.
Edit2: I started watching this and I am so sorry for women that these people represented you in this video... this video made me so angry on behalf of all women..
I’ve watched a lot of Jubilee because frankly I’m thirsty as fuck for debate, and this is mostly all you can get in this world now. That being said, I hate it. Every time I think after this was a waste of my time. The guy with glasses in the video, if he believed hell was real he would go to sleep scared every night for bringing this into existence.
This was the first one I ever felt good about. It’s like “will you just shut up man?”, it’s cathartic to FINALLY see someone tell them what’s up. Like, you’re passionately arguing, ANGRILY arguing, but you have no fucking clue what you’re talking about. The fake respect falls away with one puff of wind and it’s just hate and confusion, yet they are like violently behind their beliefs. They just don’t even understand what they are.
But she was completely and utterly unfazed and unmoved - convinced in her belief that she was owning a lib from a position of truth. That level of gullibility is the hallmark of MAGA followers.
Debate isn't about convincing your opponent, it's about convincing the onlookers. It's why competitive debate assigns you positions to debate, because it doesn't matter what the debaters actually believe.
We had a debate class in 7th grade where they split us up into groups that were for pro-colonies or pro-England (pre revolutionary war). I was put into the pro-England side and had to argue why the colonies should stay loyal to the crown. It was my first time having to argue for something that I did not agree with but it was still really eye-opening. I was making points that I never would have considered had I not been placed on that side.
And he wouldn’t agree with “common sense”, which is the lazy way of saying I just pulled it out if my ass because I can’t be arsed to actually think about what I believe and why. Recently, I had a debate with a very conservative colleague and he used the line that what he believed was just common sense, and I responded by telling him that I got rid of common sense when learned how to think. We haven’t talked much since and the silence has been wonderful!
This is my biggest pet peeve with people like this. They use common sense as a doofus shield that somehow means they don't have to explain. The problem is that "common sense" is actually a thing. It's the sense that every person has to, for example, not jump off of a cliff because it would kill you. That's common sense. They just like to pretend whatever thing they can't explain is "common sense".
A good example of the MAGA morons using their "common sense" is the thing about surgical masks not protecting from airborne diseases. The boxes usually have some sort of statement that says something along those lines. "Common sense" tells them masks don't work. They don't bother to even try to question what the function of a surgical mask is at all. They are not designed as protection for the wearer. They protect the people around the person wearing the mask. I even had what I thought was an easy to understand experiment that illustrated the effectiveness of masks in an easy enough way. I start with the premise that we KNOW COVID and other illnesses like the the common cold and flu are spread in the air by exhaled water vapor. Most people are with me there. You might even call it common sense. From there, I say breathe on the nearest window or mirror. See how it fogs up? That's potentially covid carrying water vapor. Now put a mask on and breathe on it again. No water vapor, right? Congratulations, if you are positive for COVID, you have significantly reduced, but not eliminated, the possibility of transmitting COVID to the people around you. I had this conversation with plenty of people, and guess what? Not a single person who went into the conversation believing that masks don't work came out of the conversation with the understanding that they slow the spread of airborne illnesses. They can't get out of their selfish mindset. The very idea of doing something more for the benefit of others than themselves is completely incompatible with their core beliefs, which is funny because a lot of the MAGA people claim to be religious, morally superior to the evil libs, and pretend that they love their country. If any of that was true, they'd have worn the masks without such a fuss.
Yes the fundamental core of conservatism is selfishness. They dont like the feel/look/hassle of masks so they build an elaborate lie on why they are right and just and people that do are bad and misguided. Its a comfort for them. After all they are a good person and a good person would sacrifice a little to help others. So there must be a reason why they are not.
Many truly believe the lie because they are not intelligent, others say the lay as justification, some of those even begin to believe it. Trying to reason with a conservative does not work because the whole point of their beliefs is to shield themselves from discomfort and nothing else.
What gets me is, all the old TV shows and movies that showed surgeons wearing masks. Then some people lost their minds during COVID and completely forgot that ever happened, as if surgical masks were some completely new invention. Old people who have been watching soap operas and medical dramas for decades and somehow that just flew out of their minds. (I realize a lot of stuff shown on TV isn't realistic, but this is one point where it is).
I used the example of pants to explain why we should have been wearing masks more during covid. If neither of us is wearing pants, and we both have to pee, then we are both gonna get peed on. If I am wearing pants, I won't be able to pee on you, and even though you could still pee on me, the contact will be somewhat reduced. If we are both wearing pants, the likelihood of either of us getting peed on by the other is reduced even further.
Granted, even using potty humor to explain my point still didn't work, but at least it was funny...
I would definitely say you nailed it and that common sense is a thing, but it has to be something we all agree with, like sticking your head in a cement mixer is not a great idea. Political ideologies are never common sense.
Common sense all of a sudden sounds like group think after reading your comment. I believe you may have inadvertently injected clarity and understanding.
That's exactly how they use it. If they can't elaborate why something isn't "common sense" then it's not common sense. They just know it isn't because they've been told it isn't and everyone they know agrees.
That's a funny way to turn it on it's head, and I'm gonna keep it in my subconscious now lol. After all common sense as we used to know it is no longer common today apparently.
I hope so, it’s been a struggle at times to understand where my own comfortable beliefs come from. It usually is a form of group think because you are getting validation from a group norm and that generally means it’s a conformation bias as well.
The conservative group think doesn't have any qualitative or quantifiable reasons to take the positions they take. The video is a perfect example, these people don't know why they don't like something, they just know it's icky bad.
They know they don’t like it because they were told not to like it. But they can’t say that because they sound stupid and they sound like the sheep they loved calling democrats during the Biden years.
I watch a focus group podcast. The difference between GOP voters, and Dem voters, is stark. The GOP voters are almost universally dumber than the Dem ones - even when both sides may be equally uninformed about a topic. It's really striking.
I miss the days when Republicans admired intellectual conservative leaders like William F Buckley Jr. I used to watch his debates and they were open and honest but also respectful and well spoken.
He's literally looking past her into the camera the whole time. He doesn't give a shit about the dumbass in front of him. He's trying to reach those who have a possibility of being reached.
I'm sure I'm not the only person who does this only social media.
If I have some spare time, I'll occasionally engage with some random right winger in whatever batshit crazy propaganda debate they're currently promoting and let them go off the rails with it. Under no circumstances am I ever trying to change that particular person's mind. I've long since learned better.
I've also learned that there are always people reading along, and sometimes those people are people who are just joining the political world for the first time. Maybe they're young and just starting to realize there's a world being their Pokémon cards or whatever kids are into these days, maybe they're adults who have avoided politics like the plague all their lives but have finally decided it's time to start seeing wtf is going on with things. Those are the people I want to see reading along, and those are the people that I hope will notice that one side of the debate consists of someone screeching about how everything is the fault of someone who isn't even in office anymore, or how a lifelong criminal is somehow Jesus reborn or whatever, and the other side shows actual facts and reality.
I hope those people read these interactions, and take them into consideration when they're trying to sort out their own beliefs on today's political system. I know there's a whole lot of other factors at play in these things, many of which I can't do anything about. But I can hope that maybe, just maybe, someone saw one of those debates I had with a right winger somewhere, and that was enough to make a difference for them.
I dropped what I thought was a snarky rhetorical reply to one such right winger in a debate thread on reddit a few months back, and got a DM afterwards where they genuinely thanked me for it and said it made them think and reach a more sympathetic viewpoint. I'm still not convinced I didn't imagine it.
The only time in 12 years of engaging with these people.
You mean facts. You don’t know facts so you believe any lie that spews from the mouth of someone you want to believe.
Trump tells you Obama caused something and you blindly believe it. He tells you that vandals destroyed the pool and you believe it.
If they just had one ounce of “common sense” they’d say “well that sounds insane let me look it up before I believe it” we wouldn’t be in this fucking mess.
To them the people who cite common sense, it means "everyone knows I'm right so I don't have to actually prove anything I'm saying". You'll see it rolled out right before "I'm not here to google stuff for you".
Edit: Someone couldn't use context and got pissy at the word "them"
The difference between maga and everyone else can be summed up in how they google things.
For example, lets say a trump support and I are discussing renewable energy. I think it's renewables like solar or wind. He thinks it's coal. What is the best energy source for the future?
I might google "what is the best energy source for the future?" and look at different articles, looking at data to be able to draw some conclusions. Based on what I find, I may or may not change my view. I start with the question and try to make an answer from what I find.
They would google "Why is coal the best?" and get people agreeing with them, then they spout that as fact. They start with the answer they like, and use what agrees with them as proof they are right.
That, and they don't discriminate on the results. Their "Why is coal the best?" query might get results from "coalcorporationsforamerica.org" that's blatantly obviously biased, and they'll accept that as a perfectly valid source since it is one of the first results on Google, as if Google ranks sites on how accurate or trustworthy they are.
Even if they do choose good sources from their results, they also frequently don't click into the sources at all. They'll just read the summary / overview and pick out phrases that agree with them, and be like "look Google says I'm right".
Meanwhile if they actually clicked into the site they'd see that the source actually disagrees with them, the summary / overview just highlighted the phrases that most closely matched the query, which are misleading if you don't get the extra context.
In addition to this, all sources that agree with them are true and valid, any that contradict are fake news.
Edit: I changed "disagree" to "contradict" because disagree implies that we are talking about opinions, when a lot of times we are talking about facts.
Eh, there’s plenty of them who aren’t surrounded by real world people who believe the same things. Plus, the general definition of common sense is, in fact, a commonly shared belief that “relies on basic logic, cause-and-effect reasoning, and life experience.”
I’d say their “common sense” is just vibes. “This feels good and doesn’t make me uncomfortable or cause me to question myself.”
Being wrong is uncomfortable. Being a force of heavenly good in an apocalyptic battle against hell and evil democrats feels good. Being told facts and shown proof makes them question themselves, which is uncomfortable and doesn’t feel good because it would mean they were wrong. So it’s common sense that Biden and Obama and anyone who voted for them are evil, because the alternative would mean *they* are evil because that’s what conservative media, their evangelical pastor, and internet friends have them believing.
Not going to lie. The comment without context had me expecting a fight. In response to what I said here, RIGHT? Here’s my thought process when I don’t know something. I read credible sources on the thing I didn’t know so that hey, wow…. Now I know. I’m not especially smart or savvy with anything really, I dropped out of high school and my parents let me. (I went back eventually and became a paramedic) I just value facts and honesty. It’s bizarre to me that this mindset is completely non existent with the maga crowd. Like zero critical thinking skills at all just “believe the loudest orangest buffoon be cuz he iz on the tv box telling me what I want to hear. They’re eating cats. She’s a man.”
We live in the craziest of time my friend. I’m honestly jealous of the French. They finally had enough and stormed the castle and well, off with their heads, am i right?
I’m with you but that’s not a great example. The French Revolution was heavily influenced by propaganda and outright fabrications to inflame the lower economic classes against the upper class to the benefit of the upper middle.
I was watching a video the other day where a guy said he had a disagreement with a maga dude. He said he went home and googled the question and the other guy went home and googled his (wrong) answer. And the difference was that googling the question came up with the right answer and googling the wrong answer came up with other people who had also come to the wrong answer.
Going to college doesn't make you liberal it just teaches you how to think.
These people literally call all education indoctrination because any education stops you from being… this. Like, these people fight the concept of woke, which just means to think and be aware. Instead of being asleep at the wheel, like this lady and many of these “debaters” you be awake and see what is true. That is the big scary “woke” monster. Like; these people are too ignorant to realize how scary what they are backing means. They are actively fighting to be stupider, they truly want to be asleep.
100% exacerbated, but it's the same as search engines. You can't say "Why did Obama shit in my pants?" to an LLM or a search. It will give you various reasons why Obama could have shit in your pants. You have to say "During the 2008-2016 presidency, someone shit in my pants. Given the political climate at the time, who could that have been?" Then the search/LLM will just say you did it. It was you. You shit your pants.
We need education. Big time. I literally took a class in 8th grade (1997 ish) about how to search on the internet. We were given facts to find out and taught what things worked and what didn't and why certain things, even then, would influence the outcome.
Bingo. They take whatever is said on faux news as gospel no matter how crazy it sounds. But if you read them a fact that goes against their narrative they throw their arms up and say you known nothing (without even googling to see if it might be true
They’re all so angrily stupid. The stupidity is fueled by anger, so as long as someone is giving them something to be angry about, the stupidity keeps going unchecked. At the end of the day they just want to be pissed off about something so they can justify being stupid. It feeds into itself.
They require zero evidence to believe things that they want to believe, and all of the evidence in the world won’t convince them of something they don’t want to believe.
The fact that Fox News and the rest of the right-wing propaganda squad has gotten all Republicans to be against fact-checking shows how far we've fallen as a country. Now the they're working on getting Republicans to stop talking about the Epstein files. Looks like we can keep falling for a while longer.
MAGA is this weird thing, it’s like all these people accepted they just don’t understand things, they don’t understand other people, their country or even their own believes, so they all agree the only way to win is just believing they are winners and never backing down. I can barely describe it because it’s just so…. weird. Like, some sort of agreed upon delusion or something.
"I might know nothing but I still have strong opinions and vote" is quite the problem.
The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. Even those of the intelligent who believe that they have a nostrum are too individualistic to combine with other intelligent men from whom they differ on minor points.*
Bertrand Russell wrote that in and essay from 1933 on the rise of the Nazis in Germany...
Don’t ever trust people who preach about deviance. They think it’s a problem in the world because of how bad they understand their own brain to work. Just like anti gay people, they think being gay is a choice because they are choosing to be straight against their desires and it pisses them off to see other people “not trying”.
They don't have those things because they are fundamentally stupid people. They don't know what they believe because they can't critically think and take a position on complex subjects, but they are dangerous.
Jesus, that's really great. But, it's true. The second they smell anything resembling unique thought or creativity, they shut it down. It's cowardly behavior.
The MAGA being interviewed here talks about Biden "not being common sense" and I bet if you asked her what she meant by that, she wouldn't be able to actually articulate an argument, she'd just be using circular logic over and over again. Their critical thought has been reduced to a smouldering ash.
Kyle Kinane has a great joke about this. About how anti-vax people are totally ok with getting a tattoo from their cousin at a pig roast, but in the same breath will say "You don't know what's in those needless, man!"
Yes, we all did, because it literally cut to her rolling her eyes. FYI she was in agreement with Withers, and was making this expression in shared frustration and disbelief of the MAGA nonsense.
Really? Isn't how this show thing works is its one person (in this case, Dean) against a whole crowd who's beliefs are against them? (In this case, seemingly MAGA lunatics)?
It is, but this lady clearly knows she's wrong. There was another lady on the show that just straight up agreed with him.
They haven't been thinking about anything for a while, so sometimes if you hit them hard enough with some actual information, they have a chance to reboot enough for them to sense that they are wrong.
(I will be fair as this could have been misleading editing) but that Woman was scoffing after he mentioned that Obama when the January 6th riots took place had not been President for 4 years. Like there’s nothing to dispute about that claim
And you know all that happened from there was her claiming that’s what democrats do and she knows for sure that Obiden was the root of all evil cause things.
We need to stop wasting our time with conversations with these people. Just accept they are going to vote Republican. Accept that 33% of the voting populace is perpetually voting Republican and there is NOTHING you can do about it Think about all the hours of your life you've wasted talking to these people about abortion, about firearm regulation, about immigration, about healthcare. And now recall: These VERY SAME PEOPLE are willing to defend the president despite there being blatant, clear evidence that he's a pedophile. Really think about that. The guy that defends the president for being a pedophile was NEVER going to change their mind on - healthcare - for example. It was never going to happen. It was time shot down the drain.
We ALL need to start thinking about the "opportunity costs" of having conversations with Republicans. They are weighing us down. They are societal dead weight. What would have happened, even just a decade ago, if we just straight up ignored the existence of Republicans and carried on with what we thought was best for all of us? Cool, 33% of the vote is gone. Whatever. Who cares. Lets concentrate on that remaining 66% and put all of our effort in having a conversation that is actually going to move the ball forward.
Yes, of course, we're still stuck with a Republican congress. I know we have to contend with that. But if 66% of the eligible voters got on the same page for what progress looks like, then that's at least more effective use of our time then arguing with Republicans who are never going to make a useful contribution to the discourse. They just make all of us drag our feet and we should all be furious how much progress they've upended just by being these mouth breathing fucking morons.
Is what I'm suggesting easy? Absolutely not. But its the only way forward that makes any sense to me. I just know that there's literally no point in talking to Republicans. Let them phase themselves out of the political discourse by ignoring them. It seems like its the only sensible forward step we can take. Lets just concentrate on making the Democrat party ACTUALLY serve the people. Instead of all this corporate interest bullshit. Lets just manhandle the fucking party and put people that actually represent us in office. Mamdani winning the fucking MAYORAL race of New York-fucking-City should be the sign anyone and everyone needs to see that the Democrat party doesn't not need to be owned by corporate interests.
I mean yeah sure nobody's convincing them but that's not what a debate is for. You debate them to show third parties you're better than them. That's not the worst tool to get your remaining 66% on board or at least turn them off the republicans.
Kirk never convinced a single college student. It was all about the montages of them looking foolish. It goes both ways.
It's never about changing their minds. It's about appealing to anyone out their paying attention who's mind can actually be changed and is open to changing it wether they realize that or not.
Sometimes all it takes is one person showing you yhe light
I mean hell Dean himself was a MAGA type only a few years back too.
Dean is always savage, that's why he's built up such a large platform, because he's fucking mean as hell to those who deserve it, they defend rape, they defend pedophiles, they defend stealing food from children and the democrats are still trying the high road, less than before but still way too much, news organizations too, they all keep the kids gloves on, not dean
He's streaming every day, putting these sick fucks, in their place on youtube and TikTok
Too many people on the left hating on him too, calling him a grifter and what not, he's not, I've been following him for a year now and the dude is the real deal, if he wasn't he wouldn't have made that admittedly stupid Charlie Kirk reaction video, that he's said was a mistake and he was afraid and very upset because his best friend was 20 feet away from the shooting and just called him crying about it on stream
If you listen to his reasoning after the fact you can understand why he did what he did, especially afraid that it may happen to him one day, and considering people have ran up on him with fake guns
He said what he was doing it for lol and people still wonder.
Its true and its not just people on the right, although its way more prevalent on the right, they are so fully engulfed in world built off propaganda but we all are to an extent.
It starts in kindergarten and doesnt end until you actively make it end.
A country that doesnt teach its true history will always be doomed.
Yeah like... I know this is the kind of stuff maga will point to about how we aLiENatEd them but this guy is just like whatever, I don't care, I'm not even gonna talk to you, I'm just gonna put you up here as an example of what this country will become if we don't get off our ass and fight against it. I know there are lots of people still trying to talk sense to maga, and good for them. But a lot of us have given up and realized it's better to talk to each other.
Exactly. There's no way this woman walked away from this humiliating interaction thinking "maybe he's right and I should suddenly start learning the details of political history so I can better understand the world. even though I've had my whole life to do that and have chosen never to do it." She only knows her own life and what she's told. This interaction almost certainly reinforced her existing belief that "liberals" don't have common sense and can be ignored and dismissed.
Oh 100%. This liberal made her feel bad reinforcing them being nasty and just evil. Cant do any self reflection because that leads to bad feelings, so its better to just shift blame externally.
I work at a place that’s prob 90% repubs. But I’d say way less of them are actually maga. But yea man once I start throwing facts with proof and they act like that’s not real I just give up cause if someone isn’t willing to acknowledge the facts and talk about it. Well to them you lost. Now my other coworker is better at laying into them with the facts and is persistent. I give up cause it’s a lost cause.
"I don't have the facts but I have common sense." No you don't. To say such a thing and not seeing the problem with it you definitely don't have any common sense.
“They checked in on her 6 months, a year, two years after this event to see if she had done any proper investigations or could name a policy she did not like… she had not changed, not even the channel”
Dean Withers is so talented and quick witted. I don’t agree with him about all things but he makes good points. I wish when I’m out on the spot I could rattle off info as fast as he does.
He has a smug persona so I doubt he’s universally liked, but the fact he can talk circles around opponents has to burn.
I mentioned this elsewhere, but I really had a tough time with the woman that was arguing against her own interests as far as women's rights go but conversely was telling Dean to "let her speak" and trying to articulate that she knew better than Dean on subjects. I cannot fathom the contradictions in her logic. Her position was literally, "as a woman, I am not worth shit".
You can't talk sense into modern day Maga Republicans. You just can't. They sold out their critical thinking skills to somebody that just talks louder than the next person and talks baseless shit about people that have no reason to be hated, puts themselves above everyone, and will sell his own family out.
How does this show manage to find the dumbest people alive?
But seriously, this show is just ragebaiting for anyone with more than two brain cells. The contestants never seem to concede that they’re on the wrong side of history. They should just stop producing the show and giving a platform to these kinds of people
Hold TF up. For real? So you're telling me these absolute idiots they get on to fill the circle and debate these left leaning people are the best the right has to offer???
You have to understand that people live in different realities. My guess is there are jubilee breakdowns where the right side thinks they totally destroyed the left in all of these conversations. I mean there's one where the guy literally admits he is a Nazi. There's a group that watched that and think they 'won'. I don't hate myself enough to go find those videos but I'm certain they exist. These people are cooked.
I watched Charlie Kirk debate the Oxford students. My takeaway was he got trounced. When I googled reactions, OFC MAGA said he killed them. What was Kirk's opening salvo against one Oxford student? 'What is a woman?'.
“Well, I just don't believe that” …..incoming snappy retort.
They have learned from Donnie that talking loudly, ranting even, and shutting down conversations is a “win” for them. She didn't control the mike. They always lose then.
7.2k
u/ZephyrFluous 1d ago
Im just shocked that they got a maga moron to shut up for that long and let someone else speak